I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
I am not convinced if another manager would be able to do much better with the current situation but suspect he will soon be gone if we don't start winning as the owners will need someone else to blame for them being unwilling to fund a top six squad.
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
Next game I think we should go 5 at back with wingbacks drop CBT because he flatters to deceive has no end product, can’t header ,can’t defend. 3 in the middle with 2 up top.
“No end product” apart from his end product when his cross set up Kanu to score?
And his assist for the winner against orient. He’s practically our only threat
I would have sympathy for the squad complaints, but, it’s a failure of basics that is the worrying thing.
the decision making is terrible at the back, and yes Nathan is young, but even in school football, you can’t allow the ball to bounce, you can’t do what Hector did, it’s basic defending and standards that are set on the training ground
He's mates with all the people above him no? That's why he came in the first place.
I doubt his ‘mates’ will hesitate to throw him under the bus if the fans direct the anger at the directors.
Agreeb but I don't think they can afford to pay him off and get a new manager. They are all in this together and will sink or swim together. The plan to bring in half of what was required and hope that would be enough is being brutally exposed.
Yes, he should feel pressure because results matter and he's the manager but....
His already unbalanced squad has been devastated by injuries.
Four of his new players aren't fully fit.
He can't control a senior pro like Hector gifting a goal like he did yesterday.
The technical director Andy Scott hasn't provided the players that were promised AS YET and hasn't moved on the unwanted players.
Not surprised to read @PragueAddick's conspiracy theory of DH being blamed for putting the likes DJ (who did OK yesterday playing his first game of the season out of position IMHO), Kirk, McGrandles on the bench because the blame game does exist at Charlton and the manager is always the first to carry the can, rather than the £10k per month gang of four. We've already seen the FFP excuse trotted out and probably "it's Sandgaard/Gallen's" fault will be next.
I also think Danny Sender was an odd choice to join the coaching team. No doubt he's a good coach and it's good to promote in house but with a relatively inexperienced pair of Holden and Hayes a "been there and done it" older head would have seemed a better, but possibly more expensive, option.
As others have said we've changed manager’s frequently in recent years and it has, other than when Gobinson (ironically the type of manager Methvan would appoint) was replaced not much changed because the whole club is structurally a mess, we don't have a recognisable pattern of play so each new boss has to start over as well as clearing the decks of players signed by the previous bosses.
So I'd stick with Dean but the pressure will only build with every game we don't win, not just from fans but from Methvan, who I believe has sold a story to the investors and will feel the need to justify why it's not working.
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
what are your expectations?
To be honest, once I heard Methven was involved I was cynical.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did the buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Haven't read all posts. Yes he's under pressure, not from above but from the dressing room and stands and so he should be, it's an awful start and we're looking a shambles at the back.
But, also, how much pressure do our coaching staff need to be under? We've been so so so poor at defending and set pieces for a.few seasons now, Adkins, Jackson, Garner, Holden... I'm sure they're lovely guys and knowledgeable but perhaps Hayes and Senda aren't quite as highly thought of as we believe them to be. They're also pretty secure in their jobs, new managers come in and use who's already here, nor do they get the boot when the current manager is sacked.
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
what are your expectations?
To be honest, once I heard Methven was involved I was cynical.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did the buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Genuine question
I don't think you are OTT, I noticed you seem to be against the new owners so I asked why, so that I could look at a different view point of my own.
I don't think you are wrong in what you are saying, I'm just wondering if it's a bit early for those conclusions.
my expectations are that I expected a couple more through the door by now. Across the season, I expect us to be pushing for the playoffs.
the problem is that we've had 10 years of bad owners, no stability in on or off the pitch management which means we have 3/4 players in the squad that the current manager doesn't want. I think it's a bit early to form an opinion on the owners as it's going to take more than one window (a window that they wasn't in charge for all of it anyway), to move out the over paid crap and add balance to the squad.
I'm giving the owners until the end of next summers window before I form a judgement but based on the last 10 years, I get the negativity from others. Or maybe I never learn, I was probably in the last wave to turn against roland and Tommy!
Actually having slept on it, reflected upon the first four games and thought about various comments I have slightly revised my angle on this.
I do think we need further recruitment and I think we should afford DH at least some time to develop, however as many have pointed out, the tactics have been mixed and poor, fitness is most definitely an issue and the set pieces are almost entirely woeful. These are all the managers responsibility and all need prompt attention.
Not sure that's true in the modern game. And we are now in our 4th season of chronic injury issues.
Yes, he should feel pressure because results matter and he's the manager but....
His already unbalanced squad has been devastated by injuries.
Four of his new players aren't fully fit.
He can't control a senior pro like Hector gifting a goal like he did yesterday.
The technical director Andy Scott hasn't provided the players that were promised AS YET and hasn't moved on the unwanted players.
Not surprised to read @PragueAddick's conspiracy theory of DH being blamed for putting the likes DJ (who did OK yesterday playing his first game of the season out of position IMHO), Kirk, McGrandles on the bench because the blame game does exist at Charlton and the manager is always the first to carry the can, rather than the £10k per month gang of four. We've already seen the FFP excuse trotted out and probably "it's Sandgaard/Gallen's" fault will be next.
I also think Danny Sender was an odd choice to join the coaching team. No doubt he's a good coach and it's good to promote in house but with a relatively inexperienced pair of Holden and Hayes a "been there and done it" older head would have seemed a better, but possibly more expensive, option.
As others have said we've changed manager’s frequently in recent years and it has, other than when Gobinson (ironically the type of manager Methvan would appoint) was replaced not much changed because the whole club is structurally a mess, we don't have a recognisable pattern of play so each new boss has to start over as well as clearing the decks of players signed by the previous bosses.
So I'd stick with Dean but the pressure will only build with every game we don't win, not just from fans but from Methvan, who I believe has sold a story to the investors and will feel the need to justify why it's not working.
Out of interest, who have you got in that gang of four, Henry Irving ? I assume Rodwell, Scott, Warrick, but who is the fourth? if the answer has the initials CM, that raises a number of questions...
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
what are your expectations?
To be honest, once I heard Methven was involved I was cynical.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did the buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Genuine question
I don't think you are OTT, I noticed you seem to be against the new owners so I asked why, so that I could look at a different view point of my own.
I don't think you are wrong in what you are saying, I'm just wondering if it's a bit early for those conclusions.
my expectations are that I expected a couple more through the door by now. Across the season, I expect us to be pushing for the playoffs.
the problem is that we've had 10 years of bad owners, no stability in on or off the pitch management which means we have 3/4 players in the squad that the current manager doesn't want. I think it's a bit early to form an opinion on the owners as it's going to take more than one window (a window that they wasn't in charge for all of it anyway), to move out the over paid crap and add balance to the squad.
I'm giving the owners until the end of next summers window before I form a judgement but based on the last 10 years, I get the negativity from others. Or maybe I never learn, I was probably in the last wave to turn against roland and Tommy!
To get me back on side, they would need to bring on some serious quality in this window.
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
what are your expectations?
To be honest, once I heard Methven was involved I was cynical.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did they buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Genuine question
It's a question many have pondered and nobody has been able to answer. But I think it may lie in the 'Assets' startling appreciation.
All guess work but from what we know/has been muted.
Roland paid a relatively small sum for both the football club and the ground. £8-10 million was bandied about? He then split the two and sold the football club playing side to ESI for £1. The club was in the championship at that time.. ESI then managed to gut the entire contents of the club and send it on a flight path to relegation to league one. Just before the trap door opened, they managed to sell their lot to Thomas Sandgaard for an again muted 7 figure sum. £1-5 million?! Thomas Sandgaard then took up the reigns, and before leaving it in a worse place from which he found it managed to pocket a reported £13-15 million! So if you believe all that, The more this club falls further down the swanny the greater it's value increases!
Yes, he should feel pressure because results matter and he's the manager but....
His already unbalanced squad has been devastated by injuries.
Four of his new players aren't fully fit.
He can't control a senior pro like Hector gifting a goal like he did yesterday.
The technical director Andy Scott hasn't provided the players that were promised AS YET and hasn't moved on the unwanted players.
Not surprised to read @PragueAddick's conspiracy theory of DH being blamed for putting the likes DJ (who did OK yesterday playing his first game of the season out of position IMHO), Kirk, McGrandles on the bench because the blame game does exist at Charlton and the manager is always the first to carry the can, rather than the £10k per month gang of four. We've already seen the FFP excuse trotted out and probably "it's Sandgaard/Gallen's" fault will be next.
I also think Danny Sender was an odd choice to join the coaching team. No doubt he's a good coach and it's good to promote in house but with a relatively inexperienced pair of Holden and Hayes a "been there and done it" older head would have seemed a better, but possibly more expensive, option.
As others have said we've changed manager’s frequently in recent years and it has, other than when Gobinson (ironically the type of manager Methvan would appoint) was replaced not much changed because the whole club is structurally a mess, we don't have a recognisable pattern of play so each new boss has to start over as well as clearing the decks of players signed by the previous bosses.
So I'd stick with Dean but the pressure will only build with every game we don't win, not just from fans but from Methvan, who I believe has sold a story to the investors and will feel the need to justify why it's not working.
Out of interest, who have you got in that gang of four, Henry Irving ? I assume Rodwell, Scott, Warrick, but who is the fourth? if the answer has the initials CM, that raises a number of questions...
I'm only speculating, but the 4th member of the SMT is Interim Commercial Manager, Steve Sutherland. Might it be him?
It all depends who's decision it was to start the season with 6 youth payers and hardly anything coming off the bench. As much as admire blooding the youth and understand the errors have also been made by senior players, its always going to be a work and progress. It appears from the outside that Holden has made this decision himself but who knows if the new owners model is to just develop youngsters at any cost regardless how it impacts in chances of promotion. It seems to be an acceptance within the club regardless of the manager or owners , that we start the season really short on numbers and rely on kids and almost accept the fact we are playing catch up for the start
We get told the winter window is a bad window to do business in but we have known we desperately need a replacement for Leaburn for weeks so maybe they should be saying that about the Summer transfer window too. It has certainly cost us points IMO.
I don’t care if they sack Holden as it will make no difference. Club is in a mess from top down, but until the ownership does its job, we will continue to falter.
Depressing, but inevitable.
Genuine question. You've been very vocal against the new owners. Owners that have been in charge for less than a month, owners who are taking on 10 years (minimum) of neglect and poor management.
what are your expectations?
To be honest, once I heard Methven was involved I was cynical.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did they buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Genuine question
It's a question many have pondered and nobody has been able to answer. But I think it may lie in the 'Assets' startling appreciation.
All guess work but from what we know/has been muted.
Roland paid a relatively small sum for both the football club and the ground. £8-10 million was bandied about? He then split the two and sold the football club playing side to ESI for £1. The club was in the championship at that time.. ESI then managed to gut the entire contents of the club and send it on a flight path to relegation to league one. Just before the trap door opened, they managed to sell their lot to Thomas Sandgaard for an again muted 7 figure sum. £1-5 million?! Thomas Sandgaard then took up the reigns, and before leaving it in a worse place from which he found it managed to pocket a reported £13-15 million! So if you believe all that, The more this club falls further down the swanny the greater it's value increases!
They can't lose
All the more reason to tell all these scheisters to eff off.
Dean Holden is the Manager. He’s not the players’ mate but that’s how he sees himself. And that is wrong. He is the Manager. When the players backed off after the penalty he should have reacted to their apathy by screaming at them from the side. Berating them, encouraging them, cajoling them. Doing anything to drive them forward for that 2nd goal which would have given us a cushion. But no he didn’t do that. He was stood on the line with a bemused expression on his face. We improved briefly after HT when he had a chance (as he saw it) to speak to them but that didn’t last long. Dean, you are the Manager. Manage them! The game is for 90 minutes. Manage them for that. It’s a 90 minute commitment from the players and the Manager and often the players need to be reminded of that. That’s the problem with Holden in my opinion. He needs to get a bit nasty sometimes, or this will just continue. It is a pattern.
He played and practised 3-5-2 all pre-season. Injuries and lack of further signings thus far as pretty much thrown all that prep out of the window. I expect better from senior pros like Hector tbh, we need to cut out the mistakes, but otherwise I am perhaps naively keeping the faith for now. If by the end of the window we have not strengthened with these so called ‘sought after players’ my mood and optimism will change.
Yes, he should feel pressure because results matter and he's the manager but....
His already unbalanced squad has been devastated by injuries.
Four of his new players aren't fully fit.
He can't control a senior pro like Hector gifting a goal like he did yesterday.
The technical director Andy Scott hasn't provided the players that were promised AS YET and hasn't moved on the unwanted players.
Not surprised to read @PragueAddick's conspiracy theory of DH being blamed for putting the likes DJ (who did OK yesterday playing his first game of the season out of position IMHO), Kirk, McGrandles on the bench because the blame game does exist at Charlton and the manager is always the first to carry the can, rather than the £10k per month gang of four. We've already seen the FFP excuse trotted out and probably "it's Sandgaard/Gallen's" fault will be next.
I also think Danny Sender was an odd choice to join the coaching team. No doubt he's a good coach and it's good to promote in house but with a relatively inexperienced pair of Holden and Hayes a "been there and done it" older head would have seemed a better, but possibly more expensive, option.
As others have said we've changed manager’s frequently in recent years and it has, other than when Gobinson (ironically the type of manager Methvan would appoint) was replaced not much changed because the whole club is structurally a mess, we don't have a recognisable pattern of play so each new boss has to start over as well as clearing the decks of players signed by the previous bosses.
So I'd stick with Dean but the pressure will only build with every game we don't win, not just from fans but from Methvan, who I believe has sold a story to the investors and will feel the need to justify why it's not working.
Out of interest, who have you got in that gang of four, Henry Irving ? I assume Rodwell, Scott, Warrick, but who is the fourth? if the answer has the initials CM, that raises a number of questions...
I'm only speculating, but the 4th member of the SMT is Interim Commercial Manager, Steve Sutherland. Might it be him?
he is under pressure as any losing manager would be .. question is who is out there and prepared to take on our bunch of serial underperformers .. on the other hand, Holden is not responsible for the ridiculous mistakes made by individuals that have cost us games
Dean Holden is the Manager. He’s not the players’ mate but that’s how he sees himself. And that is wrong. He is the Manager. When the players backed off after the penalty he should have reacted to their apathy by screaming at them from the side. Berating them, encouraging them, cajoling them. Doing anything to drive them forward for that 2nd goal which would have given us a cushion. But no he didn’t do that. He was stood on the line with a bemused expression on his face. We improved briefly after HT when he had a chance (as he saw it) to speak to them but that didn’t last long. Dean, you are the Manager. Manage them! The game is for 90 minutes. Manage them for that. It’s a 90 minute commitment from the players and the Manager and often the players need to be reminded of that. That’s the problem with Holden in my opinion. He needs to get a bit nasty sometimes, or this will just continue. It is a pattern.
Comments
what are your expectations?
the decision making is terrible at the back, and yes Nathan is young, but even in school football, you can’t allow the ball to bounce, you can’t do what Hector did, it’s basic defending and standards that are set on the training ground
His already unbalanced squad has been devastated by injuries.
Four of his new players aren't fully fit.
He can't control a senior pro like Hector gifting a goal like he did yesterday.
The technical director Andy Scott hasn't provided the players that were promised AS YET and hasn't moved on the unwanted players.
Not surprised to read @PragueAddick's conspiracy theory of DH being blamed for putting the likes DJ (who did OK yesterday playing his first game of the season out of position IMHO), Kirk, McGrandles on the bench because the blame game does exist at Charlton and the manager is always the first to carry the can, rather than the £10k per month gang of four. We've already seen the FFP excuse trotted out and probably "it's Sandgaard/Gallen's" fault will be next.
I also think Danny Sender was an odd choice to join the coaching team. No doubt he's a good coach and it's good to promote in house but with a relatively inexperienced pair of Holden and Hayes a "been there and done it" older head would have seemed a better, but possibly more expensive, option.
As others have said we've changed manager’s frequently in recent years and it has, other than when Gobinson (ironically the type of manager Methvan would appoint) was replaced not much changed because the whole club is structurally a mess, we don't have a recognisable pattern of play so each new boss has to start over as well as clearing the decks of players signed by the previous bosses.
So I'd stick with Dean but the pressure will only build with every game we don't win, not just from fans but from Methvan, who I believe has sold a story to the investors and will feel the need to justify why it's not working.
I don’t think the new owners have got money [or they don’t want to spend it], which begs the question…
Why did the buy the club?
The squad is shit and they knew that when they bought. They have wasted most of the window and the owners are now silent. We are now seeing what I predicted.
What did I expect ? Exactly what are now getting is what I expected - crap football, defeats, silent owners and not much hope.
Does not matter if they have only been in place for a month - they need to inspire supporters and these last 3 games have been shocking.
Assuming you think I am OTT, what did you expect ?
Genuine question
But, also, how much pressure do our coaching staff need to be under? We've been so so so poor at defending and set pieces for a.few seasons now, Adkins, Jackson, Garner, Holden... I'm sure they're lovely guys and knowledgeable but perhaps Hayes and Senda aren't quite as highly thought of as we believe them to be. They're also pretty secure in their jobs, new managers come in and use who's already here, nor do they get the boot when the current manager is sacked.
I don't think you are wrong in what you are saying, I'm just wondering if it's a bit early for those conclusions.
my expectations are that I expected a couple more through the door by now. Across the season, I expect us to be pushing for the playoffs.
the problem is that we've had 10 years of bad owners, no stability in on or off the pitch management which means we have 3/4 players in the squad that the current manager doesn't want. I think it's a bit early to form an opinion on the owners as it's going to take more than one window (a window that they wasn't in charge for all of it anyway), to move out the over paid crap and add balance to the squad.
All guess work but from what we know/has been muted.
Roland paid a relatively small sum for both the football club and the ground. £8-10 million was bandied about?
He then split the two and sold the football club playing side to ESI for £1. The club was in the championship at that time..
ESI then managed to gut the entire contents of the club and send it on a flight path to relegation to league one. Just before the trap door opened, they managed to sell their lot to Thomas Sandgaard for an again muted 7 figure sum. £1-5 million?!
Thomas Sandgaard then took up the reigns, and before leaving it in a worse place from which he found it managed to pocket a reported £13-15 million!
So if you believe all that, The more this club falls further down the swanny the greater it's value increases!
They can't lose
Lol
??