Honestly believe the January transfer window has sent us down.
We desperately needed some creativity in the middle and we signed defensive midfielders instead.
Desperately needed a winger but forcing this 3-5-2 instead which we have never shown we can perform with.
It seems some of the January signings are working out after all.
I think I'm sensing a narrative being spun along the lines that all the footballing appointments who turn out to be rubbish are ones chosen by Scott, and those that are any good, he didn't want but was overruled on? If that's so, I find it odd that those who employ him and have overruled him, continue to keep faith with him. They got rid of a poor manager. Why not him?
Agreed
Has Scott done a great job? Clearly no, but it's wrong to not give him some credit for some of the arrivals. The vast majority of the team that played last night were signed when he was in the building, and both Anderson and Kanu have been secured on long contracts this season under his remit.
The 4 year deal with an option for another year given to Anderson last summer looks VERY good business.
Chances are that he isn't/wasn't ever quite as bad as the very worst interpretation would have it, though even charitably you'd have to call his record "mixed."
Some things he did have been fairly good but as with a lot of things with football it's often the mistakes and the bad choices that get focused on and remembered - and picking Appleton and then sticking with him for so long were both very bad choices.
I suspect that if he was going to be moved on it would have been done already but I also suspect that he's on a fairly short rope with the money men and won't have much margin for error left - based on nothing but my own thoughts of course.
Turn around is due to Nathan Jones. Nathan Jones and Paul Hart need to control as much of the football and player decisions as possible. Under Scott the squad is unbalanced and bloated. In the next transfer window, Nathan Jones needs to be identifying the players and the characters needed to send the team upwards.
I love NJ, and I think he's overseen a massive improvement in performances in very short time... but in his most successful role to date, at Luton, he wasn't principally responsible for player identification or recruitment, so why would we give him that responsibility now? He's already said that he has license to reject signings he doesn't want and that he could have blocked the Small and Ramsay signings - does he need more power than this?
Scott is eminently replaceable, but the idea that we just lump his responsibilities onto Jones seems like a step backwards, and likely not making the most of NJ's obvious talents.
Fair point, but there was someone else competent at Luton managing this ? Harford ? Andy Scott has not proved any particlular level of competency in his job - Nathan Jones got hired but we had an unbalanced squad and Atherton was hired in the first place and left in place far too long. Fortunate that Nathan Jones has managed to turn things around so quickly. I want Nathan Jones able to get good characters in that will be up for giving everything for club. This was essential for Curbs and Chris Powell building winning and tough teams.
I think that's all fair, and definitely think Harford's work (and the broader analytics team at Luton) is a massive part of their success, as demonstrated by how they've kept on going with Rob Edwards.
Ultimately we're 19th in the table and Scott himself said the buck stops with him. I just think a lot of the issues with squad balance and recruiting for "character" have been here long before he arrived. I also think it's important for us that the biggest "misses" in recruitment have all been on loans and short-term deals this year. There aren't too many players we're tied to long-term that I'm worried about (and we've successfully exited a few I was), which gives us lots of options in the summer.
Think we're basing too much on a few decent performances if we're saying that now the recruitment was good.
We still have a number of senior players out on loan who will return in the summer.
The loans continue to be less than impressive, three weren't even in the squad last night.
Isted looks better than AMB at the moment but I'm yet to see a dominant championship winning keeper. But he looks more solid.
Coventry had a very good half a game but it was only half a game.
The same applies to the other 10 starters.
The defenders, Reg, MG, are improving but Small is the pick of the bunch imho and he was a Jones signing. Jury still out on T Watson and Edun although both improving. Ramsey also a Jones signing.
The core of the team remain players brought in before Scott ie May, Aneke, Ness, Dobson and the criminally under rated Thomas plus academy products in Karoy and Danu.
Yes, it takes time, yes it was a mess and it has been for a while but we've won one of our last 19 league games and are still in a real relegation fight.
Jones is giving me and most others realistic hope that we'll avoid the drop but we have, according to our finance director, the 4th or 5th biggest budget in the division. Anything less than top six is failure and bottom six is a disaster.
So no, the recruitment has not been good.
Too often it has been too late, in positions we didn't need at the expense of those we did and for players who weren't fit enough to impact lead by managers recruited by Scott.
Disagree, have seen enough of them both to know they shouldn't be in a starting 11 of a Charlton team looking to get promoted next season.
Are we that devoid of attacking threat? We've just scored 5 goals against 2 of the top teams in the division, away from home
Absolutely yes, both goals at Derby were from their mistakes. Bolton goals were largely down to mistakes.
We dominated Lincoln without doing too much because we had no creative players in the middle or anyone that could beat a man with skill/pace (Kanu aside).
Are we that devoid of attacking threat? We've just scored 5 goals against 2 of the top teams in the division, away from home
Absolutely yes, both goals at Derby were from their mistakes. Bolton goals were largely down to mistakes.
We dominated Lincoln without doing too much because we had no creative players in the middle or anyone that could beat a man with skill/pace (Kanu aside).
Almost every goal I watch in league one is down to the opponents mistakes.
We’re definitely an attacking midfielder light, that doesn’t mean we don’t have an attacking threat though.
As we play more with Jones and get used to his systems, I think that the goals will start coming more consistently.
Honestly believe the January transfer window has sent us down.
We desperately needed some creativity in the middle and we signed defensive midfielders instead.
Desperately needed a winger but forcing this 3-5-2 instead which we have never shown we can perform with.
It seems some of the January signings are working out after all.
Are they?
Our best player is Anderson in the middle and Kanu up front.
The defensive signings have proven to be good, but my statement about midfield purchases isn't untrue. Where are Bakinson and Fiorini after all?
Very much doubt we'll see Fiorini in the shirt again.
I wouldn't write him off just yet. Yes fitness is needed (hasnt he turned out for the U23's a couple times?) but hes not a bad player. We know jones likes to rotate and has been picking sides based on a specific gameplan for the opposition we are facing that day. With the run of tough games now over I wouldn't be surprised to see Fiorini used in a free role against some of the weaker teams where we should have more of the ball. I expect he will at least come into consideration in the rotation in the next month or so.
What is the point of playing a loan player that has no interest in the club. Even if he got up to speed and fit again I would leave him out.
Premium league players are not worth the trouble. Better off playing one of our own.
I think we are scoring goals through the high press and high intensity style that Jones has implemented, this forces opposition players to make mistakes.
I do agree that next season if we want to consistently create chances the high press needs to be supplemented with some creativity in the number 10 role, I have no doubt Jones is aware of this and would imagine it is no.1 on his recruitment list for the summer.
Working with what he has got, he's doing a very good job of extracting as much out of each player as possible.
A lot is going to depend on his relationship with Jones. He will essentially be working for him imo. If it is any way fractious and Scott doesn't like not being able to put his own stamp on things, I'm pretty sure I know who will be asked to make way.
A lot is going to depend on his relationship with Jones. He will essentially be working for him imo. If it is any way fractious and Scott doesn't like not being able to put his own stamp on things, I'm pretty sure I know who will be asked to make way.
Turn around is due to Nathan Jones. Nathan Jones and Paul Hart need to control as much of the football and player decisions as possible. Under Scott the squad is unbalanced and bloated. In the next transfer window, Nathan Jones needs to be identifying the players and the characters needed to send the team upwards.
I love NJ, and I think he's overseen a massive improvement in performances in very short time... but in his most successful role to date, at Luton, he wasn't principally responsible for player identification or recruitment, so why would we give him that responsibility now? He's already said that he has license to reject signings he doesn't want and that he could have blocked the Small and Ramsay signings - does he need more power than this?
Scott is eminently replaceable, but the idea that we just lump his responsibilities onto Jones seems like a step backwards, and likely not making the most of NJ's obvious talents.
Fair point, but there was someone else competent at Luton managing this ? Harford ? Andy Scott has not proved any particlular level of competency in his job - Nathan Jones got hired but we had an unbalanced squad and Atherton was hired in the first place and left in place far too long. Fortunate that Nathan Jones has managed to turn things around so quickly. I want Nathan Jones able to get good characters in that will be up for giving everything for club. This was essential for Curbs and Chris Powell building winning and tough teams.
I think that's all fair, and definitely think Harford's work (and the broader analytics team at Luton) is a massive part of their success, as demonstrated by how they've kept on going with Rob Edwards.
Ultimately we're 19th in the table and Scott himself said the buck stops with him. I just think a lot of the issues with squad balance and recruiting for "character" have been here long before he arrived. I also think it's important for us that the biggest "misses" in recruitment have all been on loans and short-term deals this year. There aren't too many players we're tied to long-term that I'm worried about (and we've successfully exited a few I was), which gives us lots of options in the summer.
Think we're basing too much on a few decent performances if we're saying that now the recruitment was good.
We still have a number of senior players out on loan who will return in the summer.
The loans continue to be less than impressive, three weren't even in the squad last night.
Isted looks better than AMB at the moment but I'm yet to see a dominant championship winning keeper. But he looks more solid.
Coventry had a very good half a game but it was only half a game.
The same applies to the other 10 starters.
The defenders, Reg, MG, are improving but Small is the pick of the bunch imho and he was a Jones signing. Jury still out on T Watson and Edun although both improving. Ramsey also a Jones signing.
The core of the team remain players brought in before Scott ie May, Aneke, Ness, Dobson and the criminally under rated Thomas plus academy products in Karoy and Danu.
Yes, it takes time, yes it was a mess and it has been for a while but we've won one of our last 19 league games and are still in a real relegation fight.
Jones is giving me and most others realistic hope that we'll avoid the drop but we have, according to our finance director, the 4th or 5th biggest budget in the division. Anything less than top six is failure and bottom six is a disaster.
So no, the recruitment has not been good.
Too often it has been too late, in positions we didn't need at the expense of those we did and for players who weren't fit enough to impact lead by managers recruited by Scott.
Disagree, have seen enough of them both to know they shouldn't be in a starting 11 of a Charlton team looking to get promoted next season.
Quite possibly but other players, such as Andersen and Thomas, were being offered out on loan or classed as not good enough a week or so ago by some posters.
TW and TE may flourish under Jones or they may just be part of that middle 8 of reliable league 1 players mentioned by the UK directors.
Turn around is due to Nathan Jones. Nathan Jones and Paul Hart need to control as much of the football and player decisions as possible. Under Scott the squad is unbalanced and bloated. In the next transfer window, Nathan Jones needs to be identifying the players and the characters needed to send the team upwards.
I love NJ, and I think he's overseen a massive improvement in performances in very short time... but in his most successful role to date, at Luton, he wasn't principally responsible for player identification or recruitment, so why would we give him that responsibility now? He's already said that he has license to reject signings he doesn't want and that he could have blocked the Small and Ramsay signings - does he need more power than this?
Scott is eminently replaceable, but the idea that we just lump his responsibilities onto Jones seems like a step backwards, and likely not making the most of NJ's obvious talents.
Fair point, but there was someone else competent at Luton managing this ? Harford ? Andy Scott has not proved any particlular level of competency in his job - Nathan Jones got hired but we had an unbalanced squad and Atherton was hired in the first place and left in place far too long. Fortunate that Nathan Jones has managed to turn things around so quickly. I want Nathan Jones able to get good characters in that will be up for giving everything for club. This was essential for Curbs and Chris Powell building winning and tough teams.
I think that's all fair, and definitely think Harford's work (and the broader analytics team at Luton) is a massive part of their success, as demonstrated by how they've kept on going with Rob Edwards.
Ultimately we're 19th in the table and Scott himself said the buck stops with him. I just think a lot of the issues with squad balance and recruiting for "character" have been here long before he arrived. I also think it's important for us that the biggest "misses" in recruitment have all been on loans and short-term deals this year. There aren't too many players we're tied to long-term that I'm worried about (and we've successfully exited a few I was), which gives us lots of options in the summer.
Think we're basing too much on a few decent performances if we're saying that now the recruitment was good.
We still have a number of senior players out on loan who will return in the summer.
The loans continue to be less than impressive, three weren't even in the squad last night.
Isted looks better than AMB at the moment but I'm yet to see a dominant championship winning keeper. But he looks more solid.
Coventry had a very good half a game but it was only half a game.
The same applies to the other 10 starters.
The defenders, Reg, MG, are improving but Small is the pick of the bunch imho and he was a Jones signing. Jury still out on T Watson and Edun although both improving. Ramsey also a Jones signing.
The core of the team remain players brought in before Scott ie May, Aneke, Ness, Dobson and the criminally under rated Thomas plus academy products in Karoy and Danu.
Yes, it takes time, yes it was a mess and it has been for a while but we've won one of our last 19 league games and are still in a real relegation fight.
Jones is giving me and most others realistic hope that we'll avoid the drop but we have, according to our finance director, the 4th or 5th biggest budget in the division. Anything less than top six is failure and bottom six is a disaster.
So no, the recruitment has not been good.
Too often it has been too late, in positions we didn't need at the expense of those we did and for players who weren't fit enough to impact lead by managers recruited by Scott.
Disagree, have seen enough of them both to know they shouldn't be in a starting 11 of a Charlton team looking to get promoted next season.
Quite possibly but other players, such as Andersen and Thomas, were being offered out on loan or classed as not good enough a week or so ago by some posters.
TW and TE may flourish under Jones or they may just be part of that middle 8 of reliable league 1 players mentioned by the UK directors.
As I said, jury is out.
You need a squad at this level, particularly when playing a high intensity style like Jones'. Both TW and TE are good enough to be back up wing backs, with Small and Ramsay ahead of them.
Turn around is due to Nathan Jones. Nathan Jones and Paul Hart need to control as much of the football and player decisions as possible. Under Scott the squad is unbalanced and bloated. In the next transfer window, Nathan Jones needs to be identifying the players and the characters needed to send the team upwards.
I love NJ, and I think he's overseen a massive improvement in performances in very short time... but in his most successful role to date, at Luton, he wasn't principally responsible for player identification or recruitment, so why would we give him that responsibility now? He's already said that he has license to reject signings he doesn't want and that he could have blocked the Small and Ramsay signings - does he need more power than this?
Scott is eminently replaceable, but the idea that we just lump his responsibilities onto Jones seems like a step backwards, and likely not making the most of NJ's obvious talents.
Fair point, but there was someone else competent at Luton managing this ? Harford ? Andy Scott has not proved any particlular level of competency in his job - Nathan Jones got hired but we had an unbalanced squad and Atherton was hired in the first place and left in place far too long. Fortunate that Nathan Jones has managed to turn things around so quickly. I want Nathan Jones able to get good characters in that will be up for giving everything for club. This was essential for Curbs and Chris Powell building winning and tough teams.
I think that's all fair, and definitely think Harford's work (and the broader analytics team at Luton) is a massive part of their success, as demonstrated by how they've kept on going with Rob Edwards.
Ultimately we're 19th in the table and Scott himself said the buck stops with him. I just think a lot of the issues with squad balance and recruiting for "character" have been here long before he arrived. I also think it's important for us that the biggest "misses" in recruitment have all been on loans and short-term deals this year. There aren't too many players we're tied to long-term that I'm worried about (and we've successfully exited a few I was), which gives us lots of options in the summer.
Think we're basing too much on a few decent performances if we're saying that now the recruitment was good.
We still have a number of senior players out on loan who will return in the summer.
The loans continue to be less than impressive, three weren't even in the squad last night.
Isted looks better than AMB at the moment but I'm yet to see a dominant championship winning keeper. But he looks more solid.
Coventry had a very good half a game but it was only half a game.
The same applies to the other 10 starters.
The defenders, Reg, MG, are improving but Small is the pick of the bunch imho and he was a Jones signing. Jury still out on T Watson and Edun although both improving. Ramsey also a Jones signing.
The core of the team remain players brought in before Scott ie May, Aneke, Ness, Dobson and the criminally under rated Thomas plus academy products in Karoy and Danu.
Yes, it takes time, yes it was a mess and it has been for a while but we've won one of our last 19 league games and are still in a real relegation fight.
Jones is giving me and most others realistic hope that we'll avoid the drop but we have, according to our finance director, the 4th or 5th biggest budget in the division. Anything less than top six is failure and bottom six is a disaster.
So no, the recruitment has not been good.
Too often it has been too late, in positions we didn't need at the expense of those we did and for players who weren't fit enough to impact lead by managers recruited by Scott.
Disagree, have seen enough of them both to know they shouldn't be in a starting 11 of a Charlton team looking to get promoted next season.
Quite possibly but other players, such as Andersen and Thomas, were being offered out on loan or classed as not good enough a week or so ago by some posters.
TW and TE may flourish under Jones or they may just be part of that middle 8 of reliable league 1 players mentioned by the UK directors.
It’s moved into fact that Ramsay and Small were Jones signings but were they ? Who identified them ? I’ve read that Jones has the authority to block incomings but I’m yet to be convinced he identified those two. If he didn’t then who ? Presumably it was the pantomime villain ?
It’s moved into fact that Ramsay and Small were Jones signings but were they ? Who identified them ? I’ve read that Jones has the authority to block incomings but I’m yet to be convinced he identified those two. If he didn’t then who ? Presumably it was the pantomime villain ?
Jones worked with both before, and they signed late in the window when it looked certain Jones was about to be appointed manager.
It’s putting 2 together but seems likely they were players he mentioned to Scott in the interview process. And there were rumours from ITKs at the time that Jones was keen on the job but wanted reassurances and had a couple of players he wanted to bring in as well
Honestly believe the January transfer window has sent us down.
We desperately needed some creativity in the middle and we signed defensive midfielders instead.
Desperately needed a winger but forcing this 3-5-2 instead which we have never shown we can perform with.
It seems some of the January signings are working out after all.
I think I'm sensing a narrative being spun along the lines that all the footballing appointments who turn out to be rubbish are ones chosen by Scott, and those that are any good, he didn't want but was overruled on? If that's so, I find it odd that those who employ him and have overruled him, continue to keep faith with him. They got rid of a poor manager. Why not him?
Agreed
Has Scott done a great job? Clearly no, but it's wrong to not give him some credit for some of the arrivals. The vast majority of the team that played last night were signed when he was in the building, and both Anderson and Kanu have been secured on long contracts this season under his remit.
The 4 year deal with an option for another year given to Anderson last summer looks VERY good business.
Chances are that he isn't/wasn't ever quite as bad as the very worst interpretation would have it, though even charitably you'd have to call his record "mixed."
Some things he did have been fairly good but as with a lot of things with football it's often the mistakes and the bad choices that get focused on and remembered - and picking Appleton and then sticking with him for so long were both very bad choices.
I suspect that if he was going to be moved on it would have been done already but I also suspect that he's on a fairly short rope with the money men and won't have much margin for error left - based on nothing but my own thoughts of course.
On picking Appleton, as his most recent L1 experience two season ago was taking Lincoln to the play off final, and his record in L1 overall isn't bad, I can see why, when others turned down the job, he might have come across as a credible candidate. Of course Scott talked him up, and he did coach at the highest level, with Leicester.
Yes he's failed at some other clubs, but not all as some erroneously claim, his most recent experience before us being failure at Blackpool, where neither he, nor his successor McCarthy, could make a positive impact. Nathan Jones failed in his last job too. Anyone think it should have ruled him out?
Hindsight's a wonderful thing and he turned out to be a failure for us as many predicted, but he started well despite no one wanting him here. Few were calling for his head after his first six games. He had a terrible run, seemed to lose the plot, and got sacked, as most any other manager would.
Yet we have people saying that he, and whoever was responsible for his appointment, should never be allowed to work in football again. He's won more games in his managerial career than he's lost!!!! They're only pantomime villains for those who need to have them.
Anyway, what's done is done and I'm fully behind the Jones appointment, regardless of who chose him.
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum charge in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum change in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum change in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
Stability invariably leads to success.
It does, and chopping and changing things every few months isn't going to help.. And hopefully we have stability in the ownership, recruitment team, management and playing staff.
Turn around is due to Nathan Jones. Nathan Jones and Paul Hart need to control as much of the football and player decisions as possible. Under Scott the squad is unbalanced and bloated. In the next transfer window, Nathan Jones needs to be identifying the players and the characters needed to send the team upwards.
I love NJ, and I think he's overseen a massive improvement in performances in very short time... but in his most successful role to date, at Luton, he wasn't principally responsible for player identification or recruitment, so why would we give him that responsibility now? He's already said that he has license to reject signings he doesn't want and that he could have blocked the Small and Ramsay signings - does he need more power than this?
Scott is eminently replaceable, but the idea that we just lump his responsibilities onto Jones seems like a step backwards, and likely not making the most of NJ's obvious talents.
Fair point, but there was someone else competent at Luton managing this ? Harford ? Andy Scott has not proved any particlular level of competency in his job - Nathan Jones got hired but we had an unbalanced squad and Atherton was hired in the first place and left in place far too long. Fortunate that Nathan Jones has managed to turn things around so quickly. I want Nathan Jones able to get good characters in that will be up for giving everything for club. This was essential for Curbs and Chris Powell building winning and tough teams.
I think that's all fair, and definitely think Harford's work (and the broader analytics team at Luton) is a massive part of their success, as demonstrated by how they've kept on going with Rob Edwards.
Ultimately we're 19th in the table and Scott himself said the buck stops with him. I just think a lot of the issues with squad balance and recruiting for "character" have been here long before he arrived. I also think it's important for us that the biggest "misses" in recruitment have all been on loans and short-term deals this year. There aren't too many players we're tied to long-term that I'm worried about (and we've successfully exited a few I was), which gives us lots of options in the summer.
Think we're basing too much on a few decent performances if we're saying that now the recruitment was good.
We still have a number of senior players out on loan who will return in the summer.
The loans continue to be less than impressive, three weren't even in the squad last night.
Isted looks better than AMB at the moment but I'm yet to see a dominant championship winning keeper. But he looks more solid.
Coventry had a very good half a game but it was only half a game.
The same applies to the other 10 starters.
The defenders, Reg, MG, are improving but Small is the pick of the bunch imho and he was a Jones signing. Jury still out on T Watson and Edun although both improving. Ramsey also a Jones signing.
The core of the team remain players brought in before Scott ie May, Aneke, Ness, Dobson and the criminally under rated Thomas plus academy products in Karoy and Danu.
Yes, it takes time, yes it was a mess and it has been for a while but we've won one of our last 19 league games and are still in a real relegation fight.
Jones is giving me and most others realistic hope that we'll avoid the drop but we have, according to our finance director, the 4th or 5th biggest budget in the division. Anything less than top six is failure and bottom six is a disaster.
So no, the recruitment has not been good.
Too often it has been too late, in positions we didn't need at the expense of those we did and for players who weren't fit enough to impact lead by managers recruited by Scott.
Disagree, have seen enough of them both to know they shouldn't be in a starting 11 of a Charlton team looking to get promoted next season.
Quite possibly but other players, such as Andersen and Thomas, were being offered out on loan or classed as not good enough a week or so ago by some posters.
TW and TE may flourish under Jones or they may just be part of that middle 8 of reliable league 1 players mentioned by the UK directors.
As I said, jury is out.
I wouldn't even put them there.
agreed - neither are good enough - squad fillers at best
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum charge in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
I don't think his player recruitment is the main beef some have with him. Although that has been questionable at times. That fact he went through an interview process with multiple candidates and thought Appleton was 'the one', when he clearly wasn't, is a bigger issue for many.
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum charge in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
I don't think his player recruitment is the main beef some have with him. Although that has been questionable at times. That fact he went through an interview process with multiple candidates and thought Appleton was 'the one', when he clearly wasn't, is a bigger issue for many.
Who were the other options at the time though? It's not as if Jones was available in the autumn, and we turned him down.
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum change in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
Stability invariably leads to success.
or stagnation.
Stability is great but you also need fresh blood ever so often. Look at how Fergusson changed his assistant managers so often.
Saying we need 18 months or 2 years is fine but that isn't what Scott was saying after Holden was sacked.
And Jones is already talking about more than minimal changes in the summer window, mentioning both re-sizing and re-balancing the squad..
It’s moved into fact that Ramsay and Small were Jones signings but were they ? Who identified them ? I’ve read that Jones has the authority to block incomings but I’m yet to be convinced he identified those two. If he didn’t then who ? Presumably it was the pantomime villain ?
Jones worked with both before, and they signed late in the window when it looked certain Jones was about to be appointed manager.
It’s putting 2 together but seems likely they were players he mentioned to Scott in the interview process. And there were rumours from ITKs at the time that Jones was keen on the job but wanted reassurances and had a couple of players he wanted to bring in as well
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum charge in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
I don't think his player recruitment is the main beef some have with him. Although that has been questionable at times. That fact he went through an interview process with multiple candidates and thought Appleton was 'the one', when he clearly wasn't, is a bigger issue for many.
Appleton fitted the model Scott and the other UK directors were using at the time IE a coach "on the grass" but overseen by a technical director who set the overarching style of play and recruitment strategy.
That failed, IHMO, both because the manager wasn't good enough "on the grass" and the recruitment wasn't good enough EG no replacement/back up for Leaburn and Aneke. Both ultimately fall on Scott although I also think the unrealistic budget restraints set by Methven, in order to get the owners to invest, have caused a lot of the issues.
I believe that model has now changed.
I get the impression that there is a bit of rift between the North American owners and the UK directors with the former saying "enough is enough, we want a proper manager, one with more of a reputation and track record and one that has a greater control over playing style and recruitment because we've seen you mess up too many times already."
Not going to defend or criticise Scott, but it was always going to take a a number of windows to get things right, we are not the only club who's recruitment isn't great.. In fact, I would say 90% clubs up and down the country will say it isn't great! For me the high turn over of players is our biggest issue, the most successful sides have players that established, look at Ipswich as an example from last year, they have 5 or 6 players that have played over 100 games for the club, we have 1 player in George Dobson.. There constant change of manager obviously leads to an upturn in players.. We just need 18 months - 2 years of minimum charge in a window, and Jones working with the same set of players, rather than a number of in's and out's
I don't think his player recruitment is the main beef some have with him. Although that has been questionable at times. That fact he went through an interview process with multiple candidates and thought Appleton was 'the one', when he clearly wasn't, is a bigger issue for many.
Maybe but do we know that there ultimately was a choice. Wanting to be interviewed and taking the job if offered are two different things.
It’s moved into fact that Ramsay and Small were Jones signings but were they ? Who identified them ? I’ve read that Jones has the authority to block incomings but I’m yet to be convinced he identified those two. If he didn’t then who ? Presumably it was the pantomime villain ?
Jones worked with both before, and they signed late in the window when it looked certain Jones was about to be appointed manager.
It’s putting 2 together but seems likely they were players he mentioned to Scott in the interview process. And there were rumours from ITKs at the time that Jones was keen on the job but wanted reassurances and had a couple of players he wanted to bring in as well
Is this true? Ramsay left Southampton for Harrogate 3 months before Jones was appointed as manager? Or did their paths cross somewhere else?
Comments
Some things he did have been fairly good but as with a lot of things with football it's often the mistakes and the bad choices that get focused on and remembered - and picking Appleton and then sticking with him for so long were both very bad choices.
I suspect that if he was going to be moved on it would have been done already but I also suspect that he's on a fairly short rope with the money men and won't have much margin for error left - based on nothing but my own thoughts of course.
We dominated Lincoln without doing too much because we had no creative players in the middle or anyone that could beat a man with skill/pace (Kanu aside).
As we play more with Jones and get used to his systems, I think that the goals will start coming more consistently.
Premium league players are not worth the trouble. Better off playing one of our own.
I do agree that next season if we want to consistently create chances the high press needs to be supplemented with some creativity in the number 10 role, I have no doubt Jones is aware of this and would imagine it is no.1 on his recruitment list for the summer.
Working with what he has got, he's doing a very good job of extracting as much out of each player as possible.
If it is any way fractious and Scott doesn't like not being able to put his own stamp on things, I'm pretty sure I know who will be asked to make way.
TW and TE may flourish under Jones or they may just be part of that middle 8 of reliable league 1 players mentioned by the UK directors.
As I said, jury is out.
Yes he's failed at some other clubs, but not all as some erroneously claim, his most recent experience before us being failure at Blackpool, where neither he, nor his successor McCarthy, could make a positive impact. Nathan Jones failed in his last job too. Anyone think it should have ruled him out?
Hindsight's a wonderful thing and he turned out to be a failure for us as many predicted, but he started well despite no one wanting him here. Few were calling for his head after his first six games. He had a terrible run, seemed to lose the plot, and got sacked, as most any other manager would.
Yet we have people saying that he, and whoever was responsible for his appointment, should never be allowed to work in football again. He's won more games in his managerial career than he's lost!!!! They're only pantomime villains for those who need to have them.
Anyway, what's done is done and I'm fully behind the Jones appointment, regardless of who chose him.
Coventry
Bakinson (on loan)
Taylor
Dobson
Fiorini (on loan)
Camara (on loan)
L. Watson (on loan)
Anderson
Players to come back from loan in central midfield:
Fraser
McGrandles
Henry
Payne (contract expires)
Mess.
That fact he went through an interview process with multiple candidates and thought Appleton was 'the one', when he clearly wasn't, is a bigger issue for many.
Stability is great but you also need fresh blood ever so often. Look at how Fergusson changed his assistant managers so often.
Saying we need 18 months or 2 years is fine but that isn't what Scott was saying after Holden was sacked.
And Jones is already talking about more than minimal changes in the summer window, mentioning both re-sizing and re-balancing the squad..
That failed, IHMO, both because the manager wasn't good enough "on the grass" and the recruitment wasn't good enough EG no replacement/back up for Leaburn and Aneke. Both ultimately fall on Scott although I also think the unrealistic budget restraints set by Methven, in order to get the owners to invest, have caused a lot of the issues.
I believe that model has now changed.
I get the impression that there is a bit of rift between the North American owners and the UK directors with the former saying "enough is enough, we want a proper manager, one with more of a reputation and track record and one that has a greater control over playing style and recruitment because we've seen you mess up too many times already."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayne_Ramsay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Jones_(Welsh_footballer)
Jones basically calling out the recruitment by saying 3 managers can't all be that bad.
I should think they are both on very different pages.