I feel so old, I don’t know who any of the players we have signed are. Hope they prove more Cullen than Kilkenny standards. Interested in the new CH the most as sounds a hot prospect and may just p*ss all over League One.
I'll take good players over "leaders" any day. When you win no one talks about needing leaders.
This. 1000% this.
Also, I'm not always convinced that we know who leaders are from the outside looking in. I think when we talk about "leaders" in lower leagues English football, we mean pointy and shouty clogger of a CB, or all action get stuck into a tackle central midfielder.
And frankly, I don't want Pearce or Pratley in this squad.
There are different types of leaders in football just as there are in life. It doesn't always have to be the one that yells "man on" or calls someone a piece of shit if they lose their mark. Dobbo seems like a model pro, same with Hector, and that may be what some of these players need more than someone to shout at them.
I also think that good managers are good leaders, and Holden, while a good figurehead, didn't set this team up to succeed.
Not understanding this clamour for old heads all of a sudden. Just feels like a made up stick to beat the SMT with.
There’s plenty of blokes old enough and experienced enough, they just have to step up and act like it (looking at Hector primarily here)
We went down the old and experience route before with Watson, Gunter et al. It is not an immediate solution to all your clubs’ problems.
You need balance, that’s all.
Hector is 31, Jones and Thomas are 27, May is 30, Fraser is 28.
Handful of 25/26 year olds in Dobson, Camara, Edun, Isted, T. Watson and Blackett-Taylor as well.
Agree you need balance but you have to make sure you’ve signed the right kind of experienced pro and not one that’s just looking for a final pay day. Jury is actually out on Hector in that regard this season unfortunately.
I think this 'leaders' thing is myth. Yes you'd love to have a Tony Adams or John Terry type marshalling your defence or a Gerrard/Keane running midfield, but to be honest if a player is 20-21 does it matter if he's an experienced leader, or is his quality more important?
Shut up with this shit. It does my fucking head in. It doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, we need to sign players, but ideally they would be good enough.
Let me give you an example: ‘Sign a striker’ *Club signs Bonne*
‘No. Not that one.’ What’s the problem?
If it was ‘Sign ANY striker. No not that one’ you might have a point.
We all know Bonne is shit. Poor example. Most on here, like me will have never seen some of these players play, possibly never heard of them. Because they’re not household names, they’re already shit! If they’re shite they’re shite. I for one won’t judge until they’ve had a good few games.
They might never "have a good few games"
That's the issue
A bunch of unproven, inexperienced young players will not enable our own unproven, inexperienced young players to force our way into the Top 6.
That's the issue. Oh, plus we've spent about 25p and a packet of polos.....
such a negative spin it’s a joke, I wonder why some of you even bother with Charlton.
SPIN ???!
Methven uses SPIN
I am within my rights to point out the bleeding obvious. You may be happy with getting worse season on season.
We were promised money would be spent. Boasts of "Billionaires" and a desire that CAFC only makes sense in the upper half of the Championship.
Do you think ANY of their actions add up to supporting their claims currently?
I don't.
But sit there praying for a miracle if you like.
Can you find me where Methven said money would be spent ? ( some has clearly ) but I’d also like to read that.. I remember him saying we’d be run sensibly with a good senior management team. That’s what a lot of people wanted, we’ve signed good players now we have to wait and see what they can do once we get a manager in and a few players back fit.
Have we bollox. We've basically signed anyone mad enough to put pen to paper. Who worth their salt would really show up for an outfit with no manager?
This will be a shit show of cataclysmic proportions, even for us!
Iv seen so many other fans say they’re jealous about the business we’ve done but Charlton fans are just never happy.
Complete nonsense. Most fans are probably chuckling away at the back. We are a laughing stock. I'm sick to the back teeth of us signing another no mark and people coming on here and telling us how good they are. They won't be. I've seen it all before. More than most with this shower of a football club. I flatly refuse to be taken in by clowns like Methven,Sandgaard and Southall I can see us being on the back of some real good hidings this year It's a complete and utter mess.
It has been an excellent window , with young players with pace and energy … too 6 here we come
Who are you most excited about and why?
The right wing back going to be a fav very direct with pace , and the Man City striker looks a force up top think he could be a real find and get the best out if May
4 goals and 2 assists in 29 games last season for Barnsley is unlikely to be a real find.
I think it’s been clear that the squad lacks leaders on the pitch, never mind the age profile. Has that been addressed with these signings, does anyone think?
Also great point made about Lavelle and O’Connell being leaders at their previous clubs… 👏
Lavelle clearly didn’t work out but O’Connell had leadership trait and I think if people say he was poor they are re-writing history.
I don’t know too much about detailed football but I doubt there have been many teams successful in lower leagues that don’t have a solid spine and strong committed leaders at the heart of it.
I've a feeling a few on here are annoyed that the Club has done as much business as it has today having predicted little would happen. They're clearly unimpressed by what come through the door.
I only hope the incomings they're writing off don't turn out to be the flops they expect them to be. And I also hope that if they work out well, that they'll actually be pleased about that.
Being proved right or wrong isn't something that personally bothers me overly much, but the fortunes of Charlton in winning games of football does.
This window hasn't got me thinking we're about to enter the promotion mix and I said earlier we still lack leaders, but if anyone is thinking of protesting on the back of it, good luck with that. I won't be.
I'm quite enjoying posters who clamour for our youth to be given a go getting angry over signing other young players because they're not old enough, therefore, good enough.
Tedic coming in is a good chuckle as he's not good enough to lead the line because "too young"... despite being older than Leaburn, who apparently is a 15m pound player and will easily bang in 20+ goals this season.
It's almost a shame this is by far the best online Charlton community because it's utterly fucking mind numbing on here at times.
This thread ending its life like a big row at the end of long family holiday. Looking forward to this thing slamming shut.
As I said 2 days ago, so many fans have developed this weird hobby of wanting to argue with other fans.
I’m sure it’s largely frustration based, but it’s just not mentally healthy and I don’t understand what people get typing out something rude or abusive to someone else and then hitting send.
Just let it pass, or if you can’t just put your phone down.
Joke's on you, I'm on my laptop on my day off from work so I've got all the time in the world
Shut up with this shit. It does my fucking head in. It doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, we need to sign players, but ideally they would be good enough.
Let me give you an example: ‘Sign a striker’ *Club signs Bonne*
‘No. Not that one.’ What’s the problem?
If it was ‘Sign ANY striker. No not that one’ you might have a point.
We all know Bonne is shit. Poor example. Most on here, like me will have never seen some of these players play, possibly never heard of them. Because they’re not household names, they’re already shit! If they’re shite they’re shite. I for one won’t judge until they’ve had a good few games.
They might never "have a good few games"
That's the issue
A bunch of unproven, inexperienced young players will not enable our own unproven, inexperienced young players to force our way into the Top 6.
That's the issue. Oh, plus we've spent about 25p and a packet of polos.....
such a negative spin it’s a joke, I wonder why some of you even bother with Charlton.
SPIN ???!
Methven uses SPIN
I am within my rights to point out the bleeding obvious. You may be happy with getting worse season on season.
We were promised money would be spent. Boasts of "Billionaires" and a desire that CAFC only makes sense in the upper half of the Championship.
Do you think ANY of their actions add up to supporting their claims currently?
I don't.
But sit there praying for a miracle if you like.
Can you find me where Methven said money would be spent ? ( some has clearly ) but I’d also like to read that.. I remember him saying we’d be run sensibly with a good senior management team. That’s what a lot of people wanted, we’ve signed good players now we have to wait and see what they can do once we get a manager in and a few players back fit.
Have we bollox. We've basically signed anyone mad enough to put pen to paper. Who worth their salt would really show up for an outfit with no manager?
This will be a shit show of cataclysmic proportions, even for us!
Iv seen so many other fans say they’re jealous about the business we’ve done but Charlton fans are just never happy.
Complete nonsense. Most fans are probably chuckling away at the back. We are a laughing stock. I'm sick to the back teeth of us signing another no mark and people coming on here and telling us how good they are. They won't be. I've seen it all before. More than most with this shower of a football club. I flatly refuse to be taken in by clowns like Methven,Sandgaard and Southall I can see us being on the back of some real good hidings this year It's a complete and utter mess.
It has been an excellent window , with young players with pace and energy … too 6 here we come
Who are you most excited about and why?
The right wing back going to be a fav very direct with pace , and the Man City striker looks a force up top think he could be a real find and get the best out if May
4 goals and 2 assists in 29 games last season for Barnsley is unlikely to be a real find.
Some players just click at certain clubs so hopefully he will for us, I trust Man City’s scouts have seen enough in him to pay 2/3m for him and keep him around, let’s hope he’s a perfect partner for May and Leaburn.
Unless we sell someone in the next half hour, I haven't come away from this window really fed up.
But I do feel slightly confused what the plan is, as our transfer dealings aren't of new owners making a statement that they are really going for promotion. Or have a long term strategy which Sandgaard did at the start, even if it went badly wrong (DJ, Kirk, Lavelle etc)
Shut up with this shit. It does my fucking head in. It doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, we need to sign players, but ideally they would be good enough.
Let me give you an example: ‘Sign a striker’ *Club signs Bonne*
‘No. Not that one.’ What’s the problem?
If it was ‘Sign ANY striker. No not that one’ you might have a point.
We all know Bonne is shit. Poor example. Most on here, like me will have never seen some of these players play, possibly never heard of them. Because they’re not household names, they’re already shit! If they’re shite they’re shite. I for one won’t judge until they’ve had a good few games.
They might never "have a good few games"
That's the issue
A bunch of unproven, inexperienced young players will not enable our own unproven, inexperienced young players to force our way into the Top 6.
That's the issue. Oh, plus we've spent about 25p and a packet of polos.....
such a negative spin it’s a joke, I wonder why some of you even bother with Charlton.
SPIN ???!
Methven uses SPIN
I am within my rights to point out the bleeding obvious. You may be happy with getting worse season on season.
We were promised money would be spent. Boasts of "Billionaires" and a desire that CAFC only makes sense in the upper half of the Championship.
Do you think ANY of their actions add up to supporting their claims currently?
I don't.
But sit there praying for a miracle if you like.
Can you find me where Methven said money would be spent ? ( some has clearly ) but I’d also like to read that.. I remember him saying we’d be run sensibly with a good senior management team. That’s what a lot of people wanted, we’ve signed good players now we have to wait and see what they can do once we get a manager in and a few players back fit.
You’re right, according to his sales doc his plan is to slash costs by £7-8m and gain promotion. Cloud cuckoo but he’ll spin it out until we all realise we’ve been done over. I mean step back for a moment. The worst start to a season for decades, the first team to sack their manager this season and signed a load of young players with a handful of senior games between them. I know it’s hard to admit things are going so badly wrong so early and hope is already fading of promotion but don’t sugar coat it. Friends who support other teams are messaging me saying WTF. I think we need to wake up to reality.
WHAT SALES DOC
The one that’s been seen by trusted people who care for this club. I know it’s easier to discredit it rather than wake up to the fact that this lot are no good for us. I know we don’t deserve this bad luck but don’t attack the people who care about this club.
But if it's that bad and the people care for the club that much, they have to share it. If no-one shares it, there's no point referring to it, you may as well refer to the zodiac signs or tarot cards, or a mischievous little green leprechaun that only you can see and hear, for all it's worth.
Because the person who shared it with the people who are Charlton through and through didn’t want to reveal who leaked it. It’s fine, put your fingers in your ears and carry on shouting I don’t want to hear bad news. When people get scammed they will do anything but admit that they were taken in by it all.
Bullshit, I've not been scammed by anyone, and if anything I'm asking to be in on the supposed bad news by demanding that the sales doc be out in public.
You haven't seen what is in this document either so you're literally just taking someone else's word for it anyway, maybe you've been taken in by someone with an agenda, who knows?
Wow, are you really calling into question Airman who fought for this club to return to Valley. This reminds me of when Southall first took over and people didn’t want to hear what was common knowledge within the football community, that they were wrong uns.
So because of the past, they can't have an agenda now?
I've said time and again I respect what Airman did for the club, but I cannot hide the fact that I think people have wanted to besmirch this ownership group before they got in the door, and having close links to rival bids for the club, leads me to question the motives.
What links does Cardinal Sin have to rival bids? How did we know that Leneghan was involved before he turned up?
it’s been explained multiple times why no documents have been shared, but how is it going do you think? Do we have multiple small shareholders? What is the plan?
When people show you who they are it’s a good idea to believe them. Methven did that to a TV audience of his own volition. He’s been doing it here since last December. It’s playing out in real time. The January transfer window with Scott in situ was a shambles. Now the joint worst start in 33 years. Chosen manager sacked after five games.
Ask Curbs, Brownie or Powell about the squad. What’s so hard to understand?
There's a lot of people in football you can and should ask about this squad, including people who aren't former players and managers, but Steve Brown has never seen a thing in football he liked apart from himself. He is a deeply miserable man. So yeah, he's probably not going to like the squad.
Shut up with this shit. It does my fucking head in. It doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, we need to sign players, but ideally they would be good enough.
Let me give you an example: ‘Sign a striker’ *Club signs Bonne*
‘No. Not that one.’ What’s the problem?
If it was ‘Sign ANY striker. No not that one’ you might have a point.
We all know Bonne is shit. Poor example. Most on here, like me will have never seen some of these players play, possibly never heard of them. Because they’re not household names, they’re already shit! If they’re shite they’re shite. I for one won’t judge until they’ve had a good few games.
They might never "have a good few games"
That's the issue
A bunch of unproven, inexperienced young players will not enable our own unproven, inexperienced young players to force our way into the Top 6.
That's the issue. Oh, plus we've spent about 25p and a packet of polos.....
such a negative spin it’s a joke, I wonder why some of you even bother with Charlton.
SPIN ???!
Methven uses SPIN
I am within my rights to point out the bleeding obvious. You may be happy with getting worse season on season.
We were promised money would be spent. Boasts of "Billionaires" and a desire that CAFC only makes sense in the upper half of the Championship.
Do you think ANY of their actions add up to supporting their claims currently?
I don't.
But sit there praying for a miracle if you like.
Can you find me where Methven said money would be spent ? ( some has clearly ) but I’d also like to read that.. I remember him saying we’d be run sensibly with a good senior management team. That’s what a lot of people wanted, we’ve signed good players now we have to wait and see what they can do once we get a manager in and a few players back fit.
You’re right, according to his sales doc his plan is to slash costs by £7-8m and gain promotion. Cloud cuckoo but he’ll spin it out until we all realise we’ve been done over. I mean step back for a moment. The worst start to a season for decades, the first team to sack their manager this season and signed a load of young players with a handful of senior games between them. I know it’s hard to admit things are going so badly wrong so early and hope is already fading of promotion but don’t sugar coat it. Friends who support other teams are messaging me saying WTF. I think we need to wake up to reality.
WHAT SALES DOC
The one that’s been seen by trusted people who care for this club. I know it’s easier to discredit it rather than wake up to the fact that this lot are no good for us. I know we don’t deserve this bad luck but don’t attack the people who care about this club.
But if it's that bad and the people care for the club that much, they have to share it. If no-one shares it, there's no point referring to it, you may as well refer to the zodiac signs or tarot cards, or a mischievous little green leprechaun that only you can see and hear, for all it's worth.
Because the person who shared it with the people who are Charlton through and through didn’t want to reveal who leaked it. It’s fine, put your fingers in your ears and carry on shouting I don’t want to hear bad news. When people get scammed they will do anything but admit that they were taken in by it all.
Bullshit, I've not been scammed by anyone, and if anything I'm asking to be in on the supposed bad news by demanding that the sales doc be out in public.
You haven't seen what is in this document either so you're literally just taking someone else's word for it anyway, maybe you've been taken in by someone with an agenda, who knows?
No, you’re probably right. Airman and Cardinal Sin have taken me in with their special agenda. Makes sense.
You seen the document.....?
No, but some people I trust have and have shared a summary of its contents. Hopefully that’s not too confusing for you.
Is that the one that says we would shut the east stand and the person that posts pictures of the west stand crowd every home game, from the east stand that's clearly not closed?
I don't doubt it's existence, I do doubt that it actually constitutes a working plan. As nothing that has been shared from it has come true and most if it would be impossible anyway.
And yet Warrick proposed closing the AC Stand back in January and was told it was a nonsense idea. “Should we worry what the fans think?” was his response.
I agree it’s not a working plan, but it’s the product of the same mentality that says an operating loss of £1m-£2m is possible with a bottom line profit from trading players. It’s the foundational myth that brings in the investors and then means the set-up implodes when it isn’t delivered.
it’s the same story with Sandgaard, Methven and Spiegel. The detail and even the motives don’t matter. It’s how and why we continue to fail.
Surprised we needed someone of Scott’s calibre to achieve what he’s managed to achieve. And I doubt he’s cheap.
I doubt if Gallen's contact book extended to Italy. Great coop by Scott to bring in a player with 2 Serie A appearances 👏👏👏.
There you go again trying to belittle people.
You are a sad, sad person.
Belittling who ? Gallen or the player ?? For the record i thought Gallen did a great job. As for the Udinese player.....I'll hold judgement until I see him play a number of times.
As for Scott.....if it takes you 6 weeks to bring in a 20 year old with no league games under your belt then I suggest you're not doing a great job.
Shut up with this shit. It does my fucking head in. It doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, we need to sign players, but ideally they would be good enough.
Let me give you an example: ‘Sign a striker’ *Club signs Bonne*
‘No. Not that one.’ What’s the problem?
If it was ‘Sign ANY striker. No not that one’ you might have a point.
We all know Bonne is shit. Poor example. Most on here, like me will have never seen some of these players play, possibly never heard of them. Because they’re not household names, they’re already shit! If they’re shite they’re shite. I for one won’t judge until they’ve had a good few games.
They might never "have a good few games"
That's the issue
A bunch of unproven, inexperienced young players will not enable our own unproven, inexperienced young players to force our way into the Top 6.
That's the issue. Oh, plus we've spent about 25p and a packet of polos.....
such a negative spin it’s a joke, I wonder why some of you even bother with Charlton.
SPIN ???!
Methven uses SPIN
I am within my rights to point out the bleeding obvious. You may be happy with getting worse season on season.
We were promised money would be spent. Boasts of "Billionaires" and a desire that CAFC only makes sense in the upper half of the Championship.
Do you think ANY of their actions add up to supporting their claims currently?
I don't.
But sit there praying for a miracle if you like.
Can you find me where Methven said money would be spent ? ( some has clearly ) but I’d also like to read that.. I remember him saying we’d be run sensibly with a good senior management team. That’s what a lot of people wanted, we’ve signed good players now we have to wait and see what they can do once we get a manager in and a few players back fit.
Have we bollox. We've basically signed anyone mad enough to put pen to paper. Who worth their salt would really show up for an outfit with no manager?
This will be a shit show of cataclysmic proportions, even for us!
Iv seen so many other fans say they’re jealous about the business we’ve done but Charlton fans are just never happy.
Complete nonsense. Most fans are probably chuckling away at the back. We are a laughing stock. I'm sick to the back teeth of us signing another no mark and people coming on here and telling us how good they are. They won't be. I've seen it all before. More than most with this shower of a football club. I flatly refuse to be taken in by clowns like Methven,Sandgaard and Southall I can see us being on the back of some real good hidings this year It's a complete and utter mess.
It has been an excellent window , with young players with pace and energy … too 6 here we come
Who are you most excited about and why?
The right wing back going to be a fav very direct with pace , and the Man City striker looks a force up top think he could be a real find and get the best out if May
4 goals and 2 assists in 29 games last season for Barnsley is unlikely to be a real find.
Think he only started 7 league games for them though.
Whilst i agree he's not exactly going to be the next Haaland who's to say he won't be better prepared for his time in this division last season? Once we get a new manager we might play a way that suits him better than Barnsley did? Having a shorter striker like May playing off him might suit him better than playing alongside Devante Cole at Barnsley?
And they did think he was good enough for him to start all 3 of their play off games.
I think the one question that needs to be answered is:
Does this squad make play-offs?
My feeling is no. So on the basis of that, the recruitment team have failed.
Surely only time will tell as to whether the recruitment team will have failed. Surely we at least allow one or two of these fellas to put on a shirt and kick a ball first before writing everyone off?
Started the window very well and I'm not viewing our business quite as negatively as others.
May and Camara early doors was positive - very strong signings for League One. These combined with Taylor (came with a good reputation), Edun and Hector (poor this season but impressed with him last) was also cause for optimism.
Since then, however, it's all gone a bit flat.
I can't help but agree that links to JCH, Nombe, etc. were just a ploy from Methven to change the narrative with no intention of signing them.
I don't know anything about the players we've got in today so I'll wait and see there. If they're a success then my feeling is that Methven and co will have 'got away with it' rather than some sort of Deadline Day masterclass.
Either way, this squad is still massively underachieving and I'm confident that if - and I mean a very big IF - we get the managerial appointment right we could turn this season around. This squad has way more about it than previous seasons, even without the extra experienced bodies we obviously need.
fair point on leadership looking at the squad I would say possible leaders are..
Jones Hector Thomas dobbo May
maybe Taylor and Watson in CM can step up and lead too
Dobson is definitely a leader. May could be. Don't know yet about Jones. Seen nothing from Hector and Thomas to suggest that they could be leaders. I don't even want them in the starting eleven. Unfortunately, one or the other, or both, may have to be at times.
I think the one question that needs to be answered is:
Does this squad make play-offs?
My feeling is no. So on the basis of that, the recruitment team have failed.
Surely only time will tell as to whether the recruitment team will have failed. Surely we at least allow one or two of these fellas to put on a shirt and kick a ball first before writing everyone off?
Comments
It's our main event unfortunately so it's gonna be milked.
The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing is a Sopranos style themed announcement, although we probably missed that trick with the Udinese kid. Bugger
Also, I'm not always convinced that we know who leaders are from the outside looking in. I think when we talk about "leaders" in lower leagues English football, we mean pointy and shouty clogger of a CB, or all action get stuck into a tackle central midfielder.
And frankly, I don't want Pearce or Pratley in this squad.
There are different types of leaders in football just as there are in life. It doesn't always have to be the one that yells "man on" or calls someone a piece of shit if they lose their mark. Dobbo seems like a model pro, same with Hector, and that may be what some of these players need more than someone to shout at them.
I also think that good managers are good leaders, and Holden, while a good figurehead, didn't set this team up to succeed.
Agree you need balance but you have to make sure you’ve signed the right kind of experienced pro and not one that’s just looking for a final pay day. Jury is actually out on Hector in that regard this season unfortunately.
You are a sad, sad person.
Does this squad make play-offs?
My feeling is no. So on the basis of that, the recruitment team have failed.
I'm quite enjoying posters who clamour for our youth to be given a go getting angry over signing other young players because they're not old enough, therefore, good enough.
Tedic coming in is a good chuckle as he's not good enough to lead the line because "too young"... despite being older than Leaburn, who apparently is a 15m pound player and will easily bang in 20+ goals this season.
It's almost a shame this is by far the best online Charlton community because it's utterly fucking mind numbing on here at times.
But I do feel slightly confused what the plan is, as our transfer dealings aren't of new owners making a statement that they are really going for promotion. Or have a long term strategy which Sandgaard did at the start, even if it went badly wrong (DJ, Kirk, Lavelle etc)
I agree it’s not a working plan, but it’s the product of the same mentality that says an operating loss of £1m-£2m is possible with a bottom line profit from trading players. It’s the foundational myth that brings in the investors and then means the set-up implodes when it isn’t delivered.
it’s the same story with Sandgaard, Methven and Spiegel. The detail and even the motives don’t matter. It’s how and why we continue to fail.
As for Scott.....if it takes you 6 weeks to bring in a 20 year old with no league games under your belt then I suggest you're not doing a great job.
I’m out boozed in Bexley. Let’s have it in the Millers to celebrate.
@golfaddick - you game? See you in there fella.
We’ve got Watson & Watson, Campbell & Campbell…
Whilst i agree he's not exactly going to be the next Haaland who's to say he won't be better prepared for his time in this division last season? Once we get a new manager we might play a way that suits him better than Barnsley did? Having a shorter striker like May playing off him might suit him better than playing alongside Devante Cole at Barnsley?
And they did think he was good enough for him to start all 3 of their play off games.
May and Camara early doors was positive - very strong signings for League One. These combined with Taylor (came with a good reputation), Edun and Hector (poor this season but impressed with him last) was also cause for optimism.
Since then, however, it's all gone a bit flat.
I can't help but agree that links to JCH, Nombe, etc. were just a ploy from Methven to change the narrative with no intention of signing them.
I don't know anything about the players we've got in today so I'll wait and see there. If they're a success then my feeling is that Methven and co will have 'got away with it' rather than some sort of Deadline Day masterclass.
Either way, this squad is still massively underachieving and I'm confident that if - and I mean a very big IF - we get the managerial appointment right we could turn this season around. This squad has way more about it than previous seasons, even without the extra experienced bodies we obviously need.
Seen nothing from Hector and Thomas to suggest that they could be leaders. I don't even want them in the starting eleven. Unfortunately, one or the other, or both, may have to be at times.