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England vs Italy / Germany
Comments
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Yeah but Nuno's already in a job isn't he?JohnBoyUK said:
Never say never.Bournemouth Addick said:Southgate getting booed by the travelling fans now. The FA wouldn't press the eject button this close to a World Cup surely?
Who would you replace him with?
I know who I'd pick without question...
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Blimey your on one at the moment. My point is that you cannot compare past with present ! Those managers didnt have these players. England have one of the best midfield and attack in world football potentially and a mediocre defence. Just my opinion and it isnt based on the last 5 games but the bloke doesnt have a clue ! Lovely fella but clueless. With a manager who knew how to use his squad to their strengths I believe we would be European champions now and probably would have beaten Croatia in the WCForeverAddickted said:
So 2018 | 2022 were easy draws hence why we got as far as we did... Correct? - If those were easy draws, why didnt we get as far under Capello | Hodgson | Erikssen in other Tournaments, when the draws were no harder, and perhaps even easier?AndyG said:
Apologies I forgot Southgate was the manager in 2010 and 16 !!! Its easy to forget that this manager and squad played in the 2010 world cup ! Are u pissed mate ?ForeverAddickted said:
Again... Go and do some goddamn research - You think Iceland was a difficult draw in 2016 do you?AndyG said:
There are players regularly in the squad that dont get to start down to loyalty to certain players who are not playing regular football. Maguire for instance is to Southgate that Gunter was too JJ ! The fans player of the year and one of the most threatening players on the right in the premier league starts at LWB ? I sound like Golfie when talking about England but Southgate has been lucky with the draws in the past tournaments as soon as we face a decent team we lose.ForeverAddickted said:
Because if we took that approach we'd constantly have a different eleven every England game... International sides need to have a club mentality about them, playing together constantly creates familiarity.sam3110 said:Anyway, I don't get why we don't choose players that are actually playing and in form, the commentators are bemoaning that lack of playing time for their clubs is having an affect. If they aren't good enough to start a club game, why are they starting an international game?!
I mean if Charlton / Man City had a different eleven every week, do you think they'd constantly win?
How do you do that when the squad is different every break?
2010 World Cup had we won a Group we should have won, that wasn't difficult either - Am fed up with such lazy arguments
Christ I really had to just spell that out for you didnt I3 -
cafctom said:
We didn’t concede a goal in open play all tournament until the final, which we technically drew against a side who hadn’t lost in three years.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:England ‘fans’ have a weird habit of busting a blood vessel when it comes to the national team. If everything isn’t perfect all the time, then it’s a complete meltdown. I guess it’s the same for followers of football at all levels, but with England the irrational knee jerk reactions seem to have more venom.
Is Southgate perfect? No.
Is he the most successful England manager of the last 30-40 years? Yes - undoubtedly.
It’s a shame to see people lambast him the way they are. “Clown”, “fuck him off” etc all because of recent form in the Nations League.
Would be nice for fans to show a bit of respect for a bloke who has progressed England far beyond any of his recent predecessors.
Then again, I guess that’s just the way of the world now. Everything has to be an extreme overreaction.
I've been saying it since before the Euros.
Southgate did very well at the world cup to get us to the semis but the signs were there that we were not very good.
He's been blessed with an England squad that on paper is far superior to pretty much every European team on paper other than maybe France. Portugal, Italy, Germany, Spain, Holland are all at their weakest I have seen them for as long as I can remember relative to our team. A competent manager would have seen us to the euro finals in far more convincing fashion than he did and crucially would have beaten an Italian team there for the taking.
Our performance in the nation's league has been a long time coming and just confirms that he isn't taking us anywhere, whilst likely giving us dire world cup as a farewell present.Not to mention the comfortable victory over Germany and an absolute thrashing of Ukraine in the quarter final.
How comes those games all just get forgotten? Were those results just complete flukes?
4-0 against Ukraine is par. The Germany game was not a comfortable victory. Was an even game and we took our chances whilst they missed their equally good chances, but fair enough that was the one good result he managed.
The rest of the results were not flukes but just a group of much better players beating a group of far inferior players and still making it look painfully difficult.6 -
4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
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I am not bothered about the Nations League but these games are important prep for the World Cup. Southgate is too loyal and too cautious. I can't see how that isn't obvious. Saka was playing out of position, fine, although it was clear it wasn't working but Southgate persisted until they scored. What sort of management is that? Of course he has qulaities and is a nice bloke but he has ben successful despite his weaknesses and the question is whether those weakness will allow us to win a major trophy. I think not.1
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cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.1 -
Making the comparison to club football isn’t a fair one at all IMO. Not to mention the fact that to suggest England/Ukraine is an equivalent to City/Charlton is a hilarious exaggeration.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.
So I’ll ask again - can you name me many sides that are blowing everyone away at international level the way you reckon England should be? I’ll give you the last 3-4 tournaments to pick some from.3 -
No one has blown anyone away except France were a cut above in 2018 without having to be that brilliant
most other countries are pony compared to what they have been historically at times and we had a great opportunity against a very old but experienced Italian side and failed
and we’d take that route to play a Croatia (as good as they were ) in a World Cup semi every time iif offered because it won’t come easier than that route wise at the World Cup1 -
International tournament football can be brutal. One mistake or a missed chance and you’re going home. The fact that we’ve got to a WC semi with a shit side (actually take a look at that side, it’s horrible) and a Euro final in the last two should not be sniffed at.
Regardless, we look dreadful at the moment.6 -
To be fair I think most neutrals would have said having the likes of Cole, Ferdinand, Terry, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney would have made England one of the strongest teams in world football so I think the comparison is fair.AndyG said:
Blimey your on one at the moment. My point is that you cannot compare past with present ! Those managers didnt have these players. England have one of the best midfield and attack in world football potentially and a mediocre defence. Just my opinion and it isnt based on the last 5 games but the bloke doesnt have a clue ! Lovely fella but clueless. With a manager who knew how to use his squad to their strengths I believe we would be European champions now and probably would have beaten Croatia in the WCForeverAddickted said:
So 2018 | 2022 were easy draws hence why we got as far as we did... Correct? - If those were easy draws, why didnt we get as far under Capello | Hodgson | Erikssen in other Tournaments, when the draws were no harder, and perhaps even easier?AndyG said:
Apologies I forgot Southgate was the manager in 2010 and 16 !!! Its easy to forget that this manager and squad played in the 2010 world cup ! Are u pissed mate ?ForeverAddickted said:
Again... Go and do some goddamn research - You think Iceland was a difficult draw in 2016 do you?AndyG said:
There are players regularly in the squad that dont get to start down to loyalty to certain players who are not playing regular football. Maguire for instance is to Southgate that Gunter was too JJ ! The fans player of the year and one of the most threatening players on the right in the premier league starts at LWB ? I sound like Golfie when talking about England but Southgate has been lucky with the draws in the past tournaments as soon as we face a decent team we lose.ForeverAddickted said:
Because if we took that approach we'd constantly have a different eleven every England game... International sides need to have a club mentality about them, playing together constantly creates familiarity.sam3110 said:Anyway, I don't get why we don't choose players that are actually playing and in form, the commentators are bemoaning that lack of playing time for their clubs is having an affect. If they aren't good enough to start a club game, why are they starting an international game?!
I mean if Charlton / Man City had a different eleven every week, do you think they'd constantly win?
How do you do that when the squad is different every break?
2010 World Cup had we won a Group we should have won, that wasn't difficult either - Am fed up with such lazy arguments
Christ I really had to just spell that out for you didnt I2 - Sponsored links:
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Hungary are doing a pretty good job of blowing away this nations league group tbf 😂cafctom said:
Making the comparison to club football isn’t a fair one at all IMO. Not to mention the fact that to suggest England/Ukraine is an equivalent to City/Charlton is a hilarious exaggeration.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.
So I’ll ask again - can you name me many sides that are blowing everyone away at international level the way you reckon England should be? I’ll give you the last 3-4 tournaments to pick some from.
I wonder whether that shows how little players care about this competition, or whether Hungary are really that good.0 -
cafctom said:
Making the comparison to club football isn’t a fair one at all IMO. Not to mention the fact that to suggest England/Ukraine is an equivalent to City/Charlton is a hilarious exaggeration.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.
So I’ll ask again - can you name me many sides that are blowing everyone away at international level the way you reckon England should be? I’ll give you the last 3-4 tournaments to pick some from.
It's not an exaggeration at all. Not a single Ukrainian player would get anywhere near our squad.
Southgate has only been in charge for the last two tournaments so I don't care about before but from the lead up to the Euros we have had a far stronger squad than the traditional top international countries have.
I don't care about the Lampard Gerrard era. That team under performed but it wasn't a very good squad and was cursed with goalkeeping errors whilst playing in an era where other countries had far stronger squads than they do now relative to us.
Anyway this isn't going anywhere. Not going to change my opinion that Southgate is a shit manager and wasting the potential of this current squad and I'm guessing you won't be changing your opinion that we couldn't possibly expect any better.5 -
At no point have I said we shouldn’t expect better. I just think England “fans” should show a little bit more appreciation for what has been achieved - because there seems to be very little of that.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:
Making the comparison to club football isn’t a fair one at all IMO. Not to mention the fact that to suggest England/Ukraine is an equivalent to City/Charlton is a hilarious exaggeration.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.
So I’ll ask again - can you name me many sides that are blowing everyone away at international level the way you reckon England should be? I’ll give you the last 3-4 tournaments to pick some from.
It's not an exaggeration at all. Not a single Ukrainian player would get anywhere near our squad.
Southgate has only been in charge for the last two tournaments so I don't care about before but from the lead up to the Euros we have had a far stronger squad than the traditional top international countries have.
I don't care about the Lampard Gerrard era. That team under performed but it wasn't a very good squad and was cursed with goalkeeping errors whilst playing in an era where other countries had far stronger squads than they do now relative to us.
Anyway this isn't going anywhere. Not going to change my opinion that Southgate is a shit manager and wasting the potential of this current squad and I'm guessing you won't be changing your opinion that we couldn't possibly expect any better.2 -
Southgate:
Great social justice warrior.
Shit manager.1 -
the skill levels of the present team were summed up by pundit Le Saux, a comment on a £100 Million footballer, Grealish.. I paraphrase .. 'he's right footed so he had to come inside onto his right foot there as he couldn't cross with his left' .. a multii million £ player unable to use his left foot .. almost as laughable as playing an attacking right winger, Saka as a left sided wing back .. time to go Gareth, nice bloke, a proper F A poster boy promoted on the Peter Principle0
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If anyone gets chance to tick of the San Siro before they knock it down I would recommend it. Despite feeling a bit dilapidated inside and even being far from full it retains the wow factor and I can imagine for a big game the atmosphere would be electric.
Made the trip in spite of the poor performance on the pitch. If you have a choice though, don’t opt for the top tiers, those spiral staircases were never ending!!11 -
Didn't bother watching. Something seriously wrong with football at the moment. I just don't enjoy England or Charlton anymore.5
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Went to the San Siro for the Milan derby 15-20 years ago.
AC were the home team and we had blinding seats on halfway line (mate new a season ticket holder who had two spare)
I’d been boozing most of the day and it was a Sunday evening kick off only thing was it took forever to get back, we walked hoping to get a taxi , think it took nearly a couple of hours to get back in to the action in town .0 -
Charlton I agree with. I can’t even get angry about it anymore. I’m just so bored of being disappointed. One good season and one half decent seasons in 15 years. Both in league 1.Dazzler21 said:Didn't bother watching. Something seriously wrong with football at the moment. I just don't enjoy England or Charlton anymore.
England on the other hand, I think there’s been an overreaction - yes, a dreadful run of results. But we got to the euro final last year and the Semis of the last World Cup. Something’s not right and needs fixing, for sure, but we’ve had worse periods.
(Unless, of course, you were talking about football in general, in which case, fair enough)6 -
France losing 2-0 to Denmark. An Austria win sees France relegated along with us.0
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cafctom said:
At no point have I said we shouldn’t expect better. I just think England “fans” should show a little bit more appreciation for what has been achieved - because there seems to be very little of that.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:
Making the comparison to club football isn’t a fair one at all IMO. Not to mention the fact that to suggest England/Ukraine is an equivalent to City/Charlton is a hilarious exaggeration.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:4-0 in a quarter final against Ukraine is not par. That was a bloody great result and performance in a big occasion.
Can you name me many international sides from the last 3-4 tournaments that have looked convincingly, free-flowing, dominant at all times that England should have been aspiring to be?
It's the equivalent of us getting to the fa cup quarter final and losing 4-0 to man city.
Reckon on city life they'd be saying it was a bloody great result and performance? No, because that would be par for them.
There isn't a single player from Ukraine that would get anywhere near our squad.
So I’ll ask again - can you name me many sides that are blowing everyone away at international level the way you reckon England should be? I’ll give you the last 3-4 tournaments to pick some from.
It's not an exaggeration at all. Not a single Ukrainian player would get anywhere near our squad.
Southgate has only been in charge for the last two tournaments so I don't care about before but from the lead up to the Euros we have had a far stronger squad than the traditional top international countries have.
I don't care about the Lampard Gerrard era. That team under performed but it wasn't a very good squad and was cursed with goalkeeping errors whilst playing in an era where other countries had far stronger squads than they do now relative to us.
Anyway this isn't going anywhere. Not going to change my opinion that Southgate is a shit manager and wasting the potential of this current squad and I'm guessing you won't be changing your opinion that we couldn't possibly expect any better.
Agreed, there has been very little achievement other than he managed to galvanise the squad well for the world cup in 2018 for which I give him credit. But the football was poor, and continues to be, and given the draws we have had he has achieved the bare minimum. Maybe that does deserve some credit given others before him have not even managed that I guess.
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Tomori not even in the 23 for tonight.Unless there’s other reasons involved that’s madness2
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Tbh that is a sackable offence. I reckon Southgate is scared if he played Tomori and he does well, the clamour to play him over Stones and Slab head would be a problem for him, when it should be a solution.stackitsteve said:Tomori not even in the 23 for tonight.Unless there’s other reasons involved that’s madness0 -
Has there ever been LESS enthusiasm or comment on here for an England game before - let alone a game against Germany?
Only three comments today so far (including this one) and we're less than 2 hours from kick off!
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Mental not to have Tomori in the 23…. He must be injured0
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That is down to apathy due to Southgate without doubt will start the WC with his players regardless of anyone's performance tonight. Form doesnt come into it the bloke is clueless and pinning all his Hope's on players like Maguire, Sterling etc pulling a rabbit out of the hat. Some people will remember him as a great manager who got us to the final stages of some competitions, others will remember him for turning a potentially great crop of players into a negative boring teamOff_it said:Has there ever been LESS enthusiasm or comment on here for an England game before - let alone a game against Germany?
Only three comments today so far (including this one) and we're less than 2 hours from kick off!0 -
I never saw much of him before he moved to Italy and even less since.bolloxbolder said:
Tbh that is a sackable offence. I reckon Southgate is scared if he played Tomori and he does well, the clamour to play him over Stones and Slab head would be a problem for him, when it should be a solution.stackitsteve said:Tomori not even in the 23 for tonight.Unless there’s other reasons involved that’s madnessIs he that good?, or are we just assuming the Italians know a thing or two about central defenders so he must be?2 -
Blimey. An even more defensive team tonight - Stones for Walker and Shaw for Saka.0
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Unimportant game, but really important for Southgate that England play well, especially in attack.1
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This Channel 4 coverage is dogshit. Interviewing random dickheads outside the ground.1
