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England vs Italy / Germany
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So 2018 | 2022 were easy draws hence why we got as far as we did... Correct? - If those were easy draws, why didnt we get as far under Capello | Hodgson | Erikssen in other Tournaments, when the draws were no harder, and perhaps even easier?AndyG said:
Apologies I forgot Southgate was the manager in 2010 and 16 !!! Its easy to forget that this manager and squad played in the 2010 world cup ! Are u pissed mate ?ForeverAddickted said:
Again... Go and do some goddamn research - You think Iceland was a difficult draw in 2016 do you?AndyG said:
There are players regularly in the squad that dont get to start down to loyalty to certain players who are not playing regular football. Maguire for instance is to Southgate that Gunter was too JJ ! The fans player of the year and one of the most threatening players on the right in the premier league starts at LWB ? I sound like Golfie when talking about England but Southgate has been lucky with the draws in the past tournaments as soon as we face a decent team we lose.ForeverAddickted said:
Because if we took that approach we'd constantly have a different eleven every England game... International sides need to have a club mentality about them, playing together constantly creates familiarity.sam3110 said:Anyway, I don't get why we don't choose players that are actually playing and in form, the commentators are bemoaning that lack of playing time for their clubs is having an affect. If they aren't good enough to start a club game, why are they starting an international game?!
I mean if Charlton / Man City had a different eleven every week, do you think they'd constantly win?
How do you do that when the squad is different every break?
2010 World Cup had we won a Group we should have won, that wasn't difficult either - Am fed up with such lazy arguments
Christ I really had to just spell that out for you didnt I1 -
If you turn over to Channel 4+1 now, you can watch again from the 55th minute.
Just thought I'd point out this information to anyone currently going through a period of extreme personal self-loathing.5 -
time for Southgate to fuck off1
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Should have put a clause in his contract that he is sacked if he doesn't win in five. Might stop him being a coward. The most cowardly England manager in history. Lucky he has had some great players but we won't win the World Cup with him in charge. Play form players and play 2 out of Rice, Dier and Maguire max. Also why play Saka out of position and see for most of the game it isn't working and sub him after the goal. A coward, simple as that and holding us back.5
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Yes - I think there should pretty much be a squad of 20/23 players each season for an International team, with a nucleolus of about 16 players who are involved regardless of form - You see how England play isn't necessarily how Man Utd play, or Man City or even Burnley.sam3110 said:
Yes, if there's someone else better to play instead, that's kind of how having a squad works you know.ForeverAddickted said:
Yup, and what happens when they're not in form as per your argument... Do they get dropped too?sam3110 said:
Where did I say you change the entire first XI every game?! Foden, Bellingham, Pope, Dier, Rice, Sterling, Kane all played in 90% plus of their club games this season so far, so you take players like that and compliment them with players in form.ForeverAddickted said:
So you think that other countries change their whole starting eleven each and every game?sam3110 said:
Then how and why do the other top sides manage it?ForeverAddickted said:
Because if we took that approach we'd constantly have a different eleven every England game... International sides need to have a club mentality about them, playing together constantly creates familiarity.sam3110 said:Anyway, I don't get why we don't choose players that are actually playing and in form, the commentators are bemoaning that lack of playing time for their clubs is having an affect. If they aren't good enough to start a club game, why are they starting an international game?!
I mean if Charlton / Man City had a different eleven every week, do you think they'd constantly win?
How do you do that when the squad is different every break?
We have a long and storied history of picking players based on what club they play for and who they're mates with and not players in form.
Besides, we don't pick the same XI every England game anyway, you seen Saka play left wing back before?
Seriously have you actually looked into each and every squad before making your comment, or are you just presuming that because a team is winning, then its clearly because the players picked, are in form for their clubs?
Jesus wept, and you fucking well accused me out outlandish comments after the Hartlepool defeat last season
Need to engage your brain a bit more fella
Maguire is shit and has been for a while, and isn't playing for ManUre. Tomori is playing almost every game for Milan and thriving, is based in the country we played in tonight, knows the opponents as he's played most of them already, and is young and on the up, so why wouldn't you play him?
And bringing up comments from about 4 months ago? Fucking childish
So you think we should choose an XI at the start of the season and stick with them all year even if they're completely shit just because that's the "first XI" in your eyes, and they need to play together? Really good players and teams can chop and change and still win, look at the rotation Pep employs at Man City
If you know you can trust someone to play well for you, then you're gonna pick them - Harry Maguire for example, your right has been shite for Man Utd and potentially shouldn't be picked, but when did he last put a foot wrong in a different system for England?
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Southgate is a cracking bloke; kind, humble, thoughtful, intelligent. Came into role, gave players respect and responsibility and got a positive reaction. Fostered a good team ethic, maturity and togetherness. That introduced talented young players to come in without fear and we were rejuvenated as a team for a year or two.But those aspects have (naturally) eased off over time and I think the fact that fundamentally, he’s not a particular good tactical football manager is starting to shine through quite brightly.24
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There is a serious problem at the moment and I can’t quite work out what it is.If anything, I’m not too pressed that we are going into a tournament with minimal expectation cos anything now is a bonus.But I’m stumped how that 3rd choice Italy team beat us 1-0 and we didn’t create a sausage.5
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Weirdly the dead rubber game on Monday has become really important to England, as we HAVE to click. Because of the mid season World Cup, there are no easy friendlies to test things out, Monday is the last game.3
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Nice guy but I still can’t forgive him for the way we threw away the best opportunity to get to a WC final since 66 against Croatia. Should have gone for the the throat in that 2nd half instead of sitting back, inviting them on and losing. Still pisses me off to think about it.AFKABartram said:Southgate is a cracking bloke; kind, humble, thoughtful, intelligent. Came into role, gave players respect and responsibility and got a positive reaction. Fostered a good team ethic, maturity and togetherness. That introduced talented young players to come in without fear and we were rejuvenated as a team for a year or two.But those aspects have (naturally) eased off over time and I think the fact that fundamentally, he’s not a particular good tactical football manager is starting to shine through quite brightly.9 -
It is when he has so many good attacking players but persists with a back 5 just because Maguire needs people around him to wipe his arse.Saulc23 said:Think it’s easy to blame Southgate but only Bellingham, Kane and Grealish since he came on have looked like they want it tonight.Doesn’t help they look like a bunch of strangers playing with each other. No surprise when some of our senior players have had limited game time at their clubs.
And what's the point in playing a guy who plays as an attacking right winger every week at LWB? He literally drops Chilwell (who needs game time) from the squad to play Saka out of position, it's ridiculous.
We've scored 1 penalty in 5 games, of course we're going to blame Southgate.1 -
Absolutely no chance Southgate will get the boot before the World Cup, even if we lose again on Monday. He needs to get to the semi final at least to keep his job beyond the World Cup.1
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...and did the same again in the Euro final 3 years later.DaveMehmet said:
Nice guy but I still can’t forgive him for the way we threw away the best opportunity to get to a WC final since 66 against Croatia. Should have gone for the the throat in that 2nd half instead of sitting back, inviting them on and losing. Still pisses me off to think about it.AFKABartram said:Southgate is a cracking bloke; kind, humble, thoughtful, intelligent. Came into role, gave players respect and responsibility and got a positive reaction. Fostered a good team ethic, maturity and togetherness. That introduced talented young players to come in without fear and we were rejuvenated as a team for a year or two.But those aspects have (naturally) eased off over time and I think the fact that fundamentally, he’s not a particular good tactical football manager is starting to shine through quite brightly.15 -
We'll be ok, our group is (on paper) fairly easy, there's no excuse to not get out of it. Southgate really needs to look at ditching the back 5 though, especially as we're likely to face 3 sides in our group who will all play defensive against us.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats staggering is if Scotland beat Ireland tomorrow, they're in League A and become the highest ranked Home Nation in the next Tournament, as Wales look set to be relegated too.Callumcafc said:Looking forward to the League B match against Kazahkstan in a couple of years.
Best thing about the next Nations League for us, is it'll give the new Manager a chance to test new players as we should surely make an instant return to League A - I can honestly see us struggling, and failing to get out of the World Cup Group Stages in a few months
I don't expect much overall though, quarters at best.2 -
ValleyGary said:There is a serious problem at the moment and I can’t quite work out what it is.If anything, I’m not too pressed that we are going into a tournament with minimal expectation cos anything now is a bonus.But I’m stumped how that 3rd choice Italy team beat us 1-0 and we didn’t create a sausage.
Southgate is the problem. As I said at the time, we got to the final of the Euros despite him. If Mancini was our manager and Southgate was Italy's they wouldn't have got near the final and we'd have romped it.
Honestly wish he'd walk and save us all another tournament of his dour football.3 -
Southgate is a clown, get rid1
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Southall done a deal with Southgate to not play him ahead of his move to us.carly burn said:Why not give Toney a run out?
When Kane gets injured just before the world cup what's Southgate going to do?0 -
Not really bothered about the Nations league but not scoring from open play in 5 games is awful 2 months away from the WC.
And playing Saka as a left wing back.....🤔🤮. Did Southgate do his coaching badges with Jackson & Bowyer ?? Round pegs in square holes again !!
Are either Hoddle or Keegan free in November ?1 - Sponsored links:
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Maguire is the least of our problems.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It is when he has so many good attacking players but persists with a back 5 just because Maguire needs people around him to wipe his arse.Saulc23 said:Think it’s easy to blame Southgate but only Bellingham, Kane and Grealish since he came on have looked like they want it tonight.Doesn’t help they look like a bunch of strangers playing with each other. No surprise when some of our senior players have had limited game time at their clubs.
And what's the point in playing a guy who plays as an attacking right winger every week at LWB? He literally drops Chilwell (who needs game time) from the squad to play Saka out of position, it's ridiculous.
We've scored 1 penalty in 5 games, of course we're going to blame Southgate.
We are devoid of creativity. We seem very easy to defend against, Kane is a world class striker who’s hold up play is out of this world, but he’s playing with Sterling who cannot receive ball to feet. Touch is fucking horrendous.Foden looks like he’s shackled yet Grealish comes on and wlooks released, it makes no sense.9/10 we will come across teams that wanna get behind the ball and we are clueless.2 -
England ‘fans’ have a weird habit of busting a blood vessel when it comes to the national team. If everything isn’t perfect all the time, then it’s a complete meltdown. I guess it’s the same for followers of football at all levels, but with England the irrational knee jerk reactions seem to have more venom.
Is Southgate perfect? No.
Is he the most successful England manager of the last 30-40 years? Yes - undoubtedly.
It’s a shame to see people lambast him the way they are. “Clown”, “fuck him off” etc all because of recent form in the Nations League.
Would be nice for fans to show a bit of respect for a bloke who has progressed England far beyond any of his recent predecessors.
Then again, I guess that’s just the way of the world now. Everything has to be an extreme overreaction.9 -
cafctom said:England ‘fans’ have a weird habit of busting a blood vessel when it comes to the national team. If everything isn’t perfect all the time, then it’s a complete meltdown. I guess it’s the same for followers of football at all levels, but with England the irrational knee jerk reactions seem to have more venom.
Is Southgate perfect? No.
Is he the most successful England manager of the last 30-40 years? Yes - undoubtedly.
It’s a shame to see people lambast him the way they are. “Clown”, “fuck him off” etc all because of recent form in the Nations League.
Would be nice for fans to show a bit of respect for a bloke who has progressed England far beyond any of his recent predecessors.
Then again, I guess that’s just the way of the world now. Everything has to be an extreme overreaction.
I've been saying it since before the Euros.
Southgate did very well at the world cup to get us to the semis but the signs were there that we were not very good.
He's been blessed with an England squad that on paper is far superior to pretty much every European team on paper other than maybe France. Portugal, Italy, Germany, Spain, Holland are all at their weakest I have seen them for as long as I can remember relative to our team. A competent manager would have seen us to the euro finals in far more convincing fashion than he did and crucially would have beaten an Italian team there for the taking.
Our performance in the nation's league has been a long time coming and just confirms that he isn't taking us anywhere, whilst likely giving us dire world cup as a farewell present.4 -
With the team we had loads of managers could have got to a worls cup semi final (easy run too) and euro final - in which Southgate shown himself up to be ineptcafctom said:England ‘fans’ have a weird habit of busting a blood vessel when it comes to the national team. If everything isn’t perfect all the time, then it’s a complete meltdown. I guess it’s the same for followers of football at all levels, but with England the irrational knee jerk reactions seem to have more venom.
Is Southgate perfect? No.
Is he the most successful England manager of the last 30-40 years? Yes - undoubtedly.
It’s a shame to see people lambast him the way they are. “Clown”, “fuck him off” etc all because of recent form in the Nations League.
Would be nice for fans to show a bit of respect for a bloke who has progressed England far beyond any of his recent predecessors.
Then again, I guess that’s just the way of the world now. Everything has to be an extreme overreaction.0 -
All these ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’.
England have had incredible squads, numerous times, over the past 25 years before Southgate - and they never even got close.You talk as if it should be so simple, but nobody else was able to achieve it with the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Scholes, Ferdinand, Terry, Beckham etc at their disposal.“Inept” managers don’t get to World Cup Semi Finals, or European Championship Finals. They just don’t.Nobody was predicting we’d get anywhere near those rounds before those tournaments started. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.He’s done a lot of very good things with the side over recent years. He’s also fallen short in a couple of areas in big games. He’s not perfect, but he’s far from ‘inept’.Why does it always have to be so black and white?8 -
Last two tourneys extremely favourable draws and the results were no big shock
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We didn’t concede a goal in open play all tournament until the final, which we technically drew against a side who hadn’t lost in three years.Jac_52 said:cafctom said:England ‘fans’ have a weird habit of busting a blood vessel when it comes to the national team. If everything isn’t perfect all the time, then it’s a complete meltdown. I guess it’s the same for followers of football at all levels, but with England the irrational knee jerk reactions seem to have more venom.
Is Southgate perfect? No.
Is he the most successful England manager of the last 30-40 years? Yes - undoubtedly.
It’s a shame to see people lambast him the way they are. “Clown”, “fuck him off” etc all because of recent form in the Nations League.
Would be nice for fans to show a bit of respect for a bloke who has progressed England far beyond any of his recent predecessors.
Then again, I guess that’s just the way of the world now. Everything has to be an extreme overreaction.
I've been saying it since before the Euros.
Southgate did very well at the world cup to get us to the semis but the signs were there that we were not very good.
He's been blessed with an England squad that on paper is far superior to pretty much every European team on paper other than maybe France. Portugal, Italy, Germany, Spain, Holland are all at their weakest I have seen them for as long as I can remember relative to our team. A competent manager would have seen us to the euro finals in far more convincing fashion than he did and crucially would have beaten an Italian team there for the taking.
Our performance in the nation's league has been a long time coming and just confirms that he isn't taking us anywhere, whilst likely giving us dire world cup as a farewell present.Not to mention the comfortable victory over Germany and an absolute thrashing of Ukraine in the quarter final.
How comes those games all just get forgotten? Were those results just complete flukes?5 -
We’ll now be in Pot 2 for Euro 2024 qualifying and WC 2026 qualifying, making it that bit harder to qualify for the next couple of major tournaments.0
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Yep. For all those saying that they don't care about the nations league please take note. We could have won the Nations League 4 years ago, nice bit of silverware. The higher the ranking, the easier the draw at major competitions.Callumcafc said:We’ll now be in Pot 2 for Euro 2024 qualifying and WC 2026 qualifying, making it that bit harder to qualify for the next couple of major tournaments.
Now Scotland are in a division above us.Thanks a lot Southgate.0 -
Four at the back
Walker in his natural right back position
Get Foden in behind Kane
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Coady
Hmmmmm
Bellingham
Rice
Foden
Sterling
Grealish
Kane
Foden and Grealish and Sterling can all interchange
Rice holds
Bellingham box to box
Keep the ball
Move the ball
We will struggle if players like Maguire, Shaw, Chilwell play who can't get club time.
Pick players in form and match fit.
The press and the public now expect Southgate to lose the cautionary approach as the last five games are as bad as it's been for a long time.
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