I was impressed with him at the Q&A and felt he needs to be given time as clearly he hasn’t been given the resources to make us successful this season. His 2/3 windows feels like a realistic timescale
I hope the fans don’t turn on him.
I didn't agree with the 2/3 windows comment. That we have gaps in our squad, especially up front, is down to poor recruitment, rather than needing an extra 2 more windows because we are building slowly and steadily.
And if the finances aren't there, then 2 more windows won't help anyway.
I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back. It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change? Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do? I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
I was impressed with him at the Q&A and felt he needs to be given time as clearly he hasn’t been given the resources to make us successful this season. His 2/3 windows feels like a realistic timescale
I hope the fans don’t turn on him.
Bowyer wasn't given the resources he needed.
Adkins wasn't given the resources he needed.
Jackson wasn't given the resources he needed.
Didn't stop the fans turning on all of them.
Mainly because someone has to take the flack and most of that time, most of the people, wouldn't accept it was the owners fault. That's not true any more.
For all the chat about Stockley not fitting the system and our lack goals (which is entirely true), we've scored in all bar one game this season. Problem is we've only kept one clean sheet at the other end.
I was impressed with him at the Q&A and felt he needs to be given time as clearly he hasn’t been given the resources to make us successful this season. His 2/3 windows feels like a realistic timescale
I hope the fans don’t turn on him.
I didn't agree with the 2/3 windows comment. That we have gaps in our squad, especially up front, is down to poor recruitment, rather than needing an extra 2 more windows because we are building slowly and steadily.
And if the finances aren't there, then 2 more windows won't help anyway.
I agree with most of what you say.
Clearly we should have invested if we had wanted to be competitive this season. Therefore BG needs time. Which left footed defenders and strikers were available?
In January there will be maybe some different players available and BG can further stamp his identity on the team. If after his third window next summer and our squad is still unbalanced then he would bear the bulk of the responsibility.
I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back. It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change? Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do? I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
Hmm. Seems to me that if we're saying that we're good in the middle third but not so good in the attacking or defending third then we've only got one third of the jigsaw puzzle done. And to be fair, it's the easier bit of the puzzle. Scoring goals and stopping other people scoring are always the harder bits.
I was impressed with him at the Q&A and felt he needs to be given time as clearly he hasn’t been given the resources to make us successful this season. His 2/3 windows feels like a realistic timescale
I hope the fans don’t turn on him.
I didn't agree with the 2/3 windows comment. That we have gaps in our squad, especially up front, is down to poor recruitment, rather than needing an extra 2 more windows because we are building slowly and steadily.
And if the finances aren't there, then 2 more windows won't help anyway.
I'm presuming we couldn't pick up a striker, left footed centre back and left footed wing back for free, so it will take as many windows as it does to pick up the freebies.
However by then other players will have been sold/left so it's like trying to catch water.
My only criticism of garner is picking Morgan over Payne or JFC. Other than that there’s no way I’m ready to blame the guy yet.
I have a feeling JFC not playing is an instruction. No way he's behind Morgan or McGrandles, but also he's not the player he once was either. To not even be around the match day squad is farcical.
I was impressed with him at the Q&A and felt he needs to be given time as clearly he hasn’t been given the resources to make us successful this season. His 2/3 windows feels like a realistic timescale
I hope the fans don’t turn on him.
I didn't agree with the 2/3 windows comment. That we have gaps in our squad, especially up front, is down to poor recruitment, rather than needing an extra 2 more windows because we are building slowly and steadily.
And if the finances aren't there, then 2 more windows won't help anyway.
I'm presuming we couldn't pick up a striker, left footed centre back and left footed wing back for free, so it will take as many windows as it does to pick up the freebies.
However by then other players will have been sold/left so it's like trying to catch water.
If we fail to get those players in the summer when we had 3 months to sign them, it'll be a lot harder and more expensive in January, when we'll have to pay a fee.
And of course we ( not Garner) let Washington and Purrington go, and pushed Pearce into retirement, because we could do better.
I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back. It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change? Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do? I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
I think an inexperienced player would do the same. One of the concerns I had when Garner got the job was his fexibility to change things if it veered away from Sandgaards preferred system. I had this concern because I think Adkins was in that trap.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.
I think you are right - but my question is, if you haven't got the players to play the way you want to play, why play that way? Why not play to the players strengths.
I think you are right - but my question is, if you haven't got the players to play the way you want to play, why play that way? Why not play to the players strengths.
I'm struggling to see the strengths of any of our CB's at present.
I think you are right - but my question is, if you haven't got the players to play the way you want to play, why play that way? Why not play to the players strengths.
It’s the argument between building something for the longer term and focussing on results in the short term.
The issue is former is the right way to go when you either give the manager the backing his needs or you can give him plenty of time. I don’t believe TS can afford to do either.
My only criticism of garner is picking Morgan over Payne or JFC. Other than that there’s no way I’m ready to blame the guy yet.
I have a feeling JFC not playing is an instruction. No way he's behind Morgan or McGrandles, but also he's not the player he once was either. To not even be around the match day squad is farcical.
Don't get your point re JFC, how you can judge him as "Not the player he was" is strange, he hasn't played in the league this season, best he had was on the bench v FGR.. Agree that there may be instructions coming in to somehow control the playing squad, JFC should be involved within the first team certainly ahead of Morgan, something is very array within the club at the moment..
I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back. It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change? Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do? I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
I think an inexperienced player would do the same. One of the concerns I had when Garner got the job was his fexibility to change things if it veered away from Sandgaards preferred system. I had this concern because I think Adkins was in that trap.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.
It's not just TS's favoured system, it's Garner's system as well. He likes passing, possession football, based on building from the back.
I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back. It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change? Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do? I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
I think an inexperienced player would do the same. One of the concerns I had when Garner got the job was his fexibility to change things if it veered away from Sandgaards preferred system. I had this concern because I think Adkins was in that trap.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.
It's not just TS's favoured system, it's Garner's system as well. He likes passing, possession football, based on building from the back.
I prefer filet steak, fine wine, luxurious automobiles and sun drenched holidays. My budget doesn't extend to many or very often so rather than go broke on daydreams and indulgence I tailor my lifestyle to the available resources. Anything else is ruinous stupidity. Garner's abiding denial of the state of his playing resources is equally ruinous and stupid.
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.
I think we've signed about 8 players and three of those are permanent deals with players from Swindon, yet the general consensus is that Garner doesn't have any input on player signings?
If your homeless and you pick up 3 £1 coins off the floor do you have any input to your income?
I think there are different ways to look at our financial position. Garner didn't get all the players he wanted. We didn't spend any money on transfers. However, we can't ignore that our overall spend on players' wages is higher than most in this division, it would be interesting to see a league table based on squad salaries and see where we would be.
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.
Because people in football are intelligent enough to know what's going on.
If you look at his track record and see only results then that's a very simplistic view.
He's clearly got a set style and implements it well when he has the talent to do so. (see Swindon stats last year with 20 new players for example).
If it goes tits up here I don't see that affecting Garner in the slightest, but we are still stuck with our crap owner and scouting department.
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.
Because people in football are intelligent enough to know what's going on.
If you look at his track record and see only results then that's a very simplistic view.
He's clearly got a set style and implements it well when he has the talent to do so. (see Swindon stats last year with 20 new players for example).
If it goes tits up here I don't see that affecting Garner in the slightest, but we are still stuck with our crap owner and scouting department.
Well it's in some ways a dream scenario to build a side almost from scratch, with a decent budget for that division. The Powell 11/12 side was a bit like that. And even then, he didn't actually get Swindon promoted.
Most jobs aren't like that though, you have to work with the players you inherit. Coach and improve them, and find ways of winning games of football.
I'm not saying Garner is a bad manager, all I'm saying is that he hasn't achieved anything yet, for Championship clubs to be waiting to swoop. Michael Duff did a great job at Cheltenham, which earned him a bigger L1 job. Paul Warne never got offered Championship jobs.
Agree 100% with you that this is about the Garner working with what he has got. He may not have all the players he wants for his preferred system, but part of the job of a manager is to manage the squad he has. Find the best system or systems to suit the players. Work with the players to improve them and get them comfortable with their responsibilities.
He needs to be given more time. However, I really don't want to hear the "didn't get the players he wanted" excuse. Probably every manager in the league can play that card if they want to.
I'm hoping he's given 6 months or the entire season before anyone decides whether he has what is needed for us. Where he goes afterwards is irrelevant to me, it only matters what he achieves or don't achieve with us.
He didn't get the striker he needed, so he needs to try to find a compromise. Who, within the current squad, is fast, tricky, and can find the back of the net? Only Rak Saki I'd say. So adapt the system, get Rak Saki playing far closer to Stockley. If we can start getting the best out of Stockley again, that in turn could alleviate a lot of pressure on the defence, who at the moment, know they mustn't concede, as we're unlikely to score too many.
Comments
And if the finances aren't there, then 2 more windows won't help anyway.
It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change?
Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do?
I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
Clearly we should have invested if we had wanted to be competitive this season. Therefore BG needs time. Which left footed defenders and strikers were available?
In January there will be maybe some different players available and BG can further stamp his identity on the team. If after his third window next summer and our squad is still unbalanced then he would bear the bulk of the responsibility.
However by then other players will have been sold/left so it's like trying to catch water.
He's not the problem.
And of course we ( not Garner) let Washington and Purrington go, and pushed Pearce into retirement, because we could do better.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.
The issue is former is the right way to go when you either give the manager the backing his needs or you can give him plenty of time. I don’t believe TS can afford to do either.
Agree that there may be instructions coming in to somehow control the playing squad, JFC should be involved within the first team certainly ahead of Morgan, something is very array within the club at the moment..
Garner's abiding denial of the state of his playing resources is equally ruinous and stupid.
If you look at his track record and see only results then that's a very simplistic view.
He's clearly got a set style and implements it well when he has the talent to do so. (see Swindon stats last year with 20 new players for example).
If it goes tits up here I don't see that affecting Garner in the slightest, but we are still stuck with our crap owner and scouting department.
As the game is today, with the proliferation of new statistics and data driven decision making, he would get more bites at the apple if he wanted to.
Most jobs aren't like that though, you have to work with the players you inherit. Coach and improve them, and find ways of winning games of football.
I'm not saying Garner is a bad manager, all I'm saying is that he hasn't achieved anything yet, for Championship clubs to be waiting to swoop. Michael Duff did a great job at Cheltenham, which earned him a bigger L1 job. Paul Warne never got offered Championship jobs.
Only Rak Saki I'd say.
So adapt the system, get Rak Saki playing far closer to Stockley.
If we can start getting the best out of Stockley again, that in turn could alleviate a lot of pressure on the defence, who at the moment, know they mustn't concede, as we're unlikely to score too many.