Genuine question. The manager of your choice if you could choose any from outside the premier, would do what with this squad?
Before you say “play 433!” I mean, where would we finish in the league?
I'd go for Dave Challinor the Stockport manager. Has a good CV and knows how to set a team up. He's used to getting the best out of journeyman players.
Didn't he bust Martin Pringle's leg in an awful challenge, while Pringle was on loan at Grimsby?
from wiki ... He was transferred to Stockport County for a fee of £120,000 in January 2002. Whilst playing for Stockport County against Grimsby Town, Challinor's tackle on striker Martin Pringle broke the leg of Pringle in two places, and effectively ended his career. Though Challinor only received a yellow card, Carlton Palmer, Stockport's player-manager, fined Challinor two weeks' wages and called the tackle "horrendous".[6][7]
Credit to Palmer for his reaction. Interestingly, the referee was Mark Clattenburg
I don't know if Jacko has it but I don't know if any manager we could bring in will have it either and Jacko has had an opportunity to assess what is needed and develop a plan. I think the wisest way forwards is to give him a chance with one caveat. Sandgaard does employ Steve Brown and Alan Curbishley and surely he could get them to assess and give an opinion on Jacko's next season plan for him.
Not for me, for a couple of reasons.
Firstly any manager and coaching team worth their salt should not be having to formulate a plan with input with two blokes who won’t be involved in the day to day coaching of that side. It’s just a recipe for disaster, especially on match days when you inevitably have to react to all that goes on in a football game. They should be clear about their own style of play, the sort of players they want etc, and be allowed to do it themselves. It should be totally on the manager and his coaching team.
Secondly I said before the appointment of Jackson that we need a complete reset in ethos and coaching. We have been on a overall downward spiral for many years now, and nothing feels like it will change if we continue to want to employ people in coaching/advisory roles who are associated with the current set up - especially those who think Alex Gilbey is the answer.
It isn't what I said. My point is they could look at the plan and advise TS whether it makes sense. TS has no credentials to make that sort of call. That wouldn't be for them to have their own plan but to see the football possibilities of Jacko's plan. My mindset is really just to make sure he has one.
Sorry for the slight misunderstanding, though I am struggling to see what sort of role they would be doing in that capacity if not some form of technical directors. What happens in this scenario if they do not agree with JJ's vision and plan, do they tell him to do it differently, or tell Sandgaard they think it is wrong and he should get rid.
If they do want rid, are they involved in the recruitment of a new coach?
Either way it is still a no from me. If you want someone in that sort of advisory/consultancy position they need to be completely unbiased, and detached from the current set up. Which neither of them are - Curbs will certainly have his bias towards Gilbey for example.
They would take on the role of football judgement that I think TS sadly lacks. I am not saying they should do anything more than saying Jacko's plan looks viable and sensible on a superficial level and then that plan needs to drive the planning of the club.
They would take on the role of football judgement that I think TS sadly lacks. I am not saying they should do anything more than saying Jacko's plan looks viable and sensible on a superficial level and then that plan needs to drive the planning of the club.
I am not against him asking and speaking to other individuals to canvas opinion, but does any other football club have two individuals employed in that sort of 'advisory' capacity?
Genuine question. The manager of your choice if you could choose any from outside the premier, would do what with this squad?
Before you say “play 433!” I mean, where would we finish in the league?
I'd go for Dave Challinor the Stockport manager. Has a good CV and knows how to set a team up. He's used to getting the best out of journeyman players.
Then the next poster will tell you he hasn't got a promotion from Div1 to Championship on his CV and hasn't been out of the lower leagues.
JJ was part of the Powel record points side to promotion and assistant to Bowyer's promotion, so one could argue he has a good idea of what is needed. Yet anyone else regardless is better than Jackson according to many on here.
Whether Jackson is the right bloke or not I don't know but till there is a clear out of this squads dead wood and too comfortable zone players any manager is going to struggle. The answer to the question will only be revealed next season. Non of us know, we are only going to be guessing and you can't keep sacking managers every time when you know for a fact the most of the squad of players are neither up for it or good enough.
I get the frustration, yet we all know third of the squad are not interested they either know they are on the way out or want to be, thus a recipe for all the crap that is now overtaking.
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
18 goals in all comps.. 11 in the league. Stockton has 21 in the league, might be wrong but he scored a handful in the pizza cup no?
Not that I think Stockley is a bad player
And Stockton is playing for a small club, at the highest level it's ever played at, a level where Morecambe will naturally be expected to struggle.
If we are retaining Stockley which I assume we will Stockton (Morecambe) is not the answer, they are very similar and it would not work. Alfie May is who we should be looking at, small, nippy, good feet and 21 goals this season the same as Stockton
Managed to miss the first 10 minutes owing to a big queue at the only turnstile and with it, apparently, our only decent spell of the game. Thereafter, we served up total dross, save for Matthews' excellent run and cross for the goal, which was totally out of keeping with the rest of a dire game.
I really don't know where we go from here. The structure of the team is poor, there is no real pattern of play and the side is littered with weak and underperforming players. You have to wonder what the hell is going on at Sparrow's Lane.
On the plus side, at least Inniss' disgraceful assault on the Wimbledon player didn't seriously injure him - it could very easily have ended his career.
The first 10 minutes really wasn’t great…
Maybe not amazing, but after fifteen minutes or so the three Wimbledon fans I was sitting were saying it looked like there was a drubbing coming. I was able to put their minds at rest on that one.
They would take on the role of football judgement that I think TS sadly lacks. I am not saying they should do anything more than saying Jacko's plan looks viable and sensible on a superficial level and then that plan needs to drive the planning of the club.
I am not against him asking and speaking to other individuals to canvas opinion, but does any other football club have two individuals employed in that sort of 'advisory' capacity?
No. I just don't think TS knows what he is doing football wise so in a way I'm just suggesting he gets some advice. I don't think Jacko should be sacked, we can't keep sacking managers, but if I was Sandgaard I'd want to know if he was on a reasonable track.
It was probably right to play 8 minutes but refs never play what is right. I always call the minutes added on just before they are added and am right 90% of the time and I called 6 minutes yesterday.
Me too funnily enough. You hardly ever get 8 minutes, even when it’s justified, like it was yesterday.
Personally I think we should have two 30 minute halves, with a stop watch., which would put an and to much of the time wasting. It could be trialled in League 2, just as three points for a win started in the lower leagues.
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
18 goals in all comps.. 11 in the league. Stockton has 21 in the league, might be wrong but he scored a handful in the pizza cup no?
Not that I think Stockley is a bad player
And Stockton is playing for a small club, at the highest level it's ever played at, a level where Morecambe will naturally be expected to struggle.
If we are retaining Stockley which I assume we will Stockton (Morecambe) is not the answer, they are very similar and it would not work. Alfie May is who we should be looking at, small, nippy, good feet and 21 goals this season the same as Stockton
I think they could play together at this level as they would be a double handful for defenders and Stockton isn't a carbon coby of Stockley. Also, if one of them is injured, we have common attributes remaining in the side.
I can only imagine the Innis hack took all by surprise, including some lengthy checking that the player was fine. So 8 minutes following something like that does not surprise me, as we usually waste time with other acts.
I can only imagine the Innis hack took all by surprise, including some lengthy checking that the player was fine. So 8 minutes following something like that does not surprise me, as we usually waste time with other acts.
The funny thing is that, unlike many things in football, time is something you can actually measure! You can use a clock or a watch to do it.
Referees have to make many judgements during a game based on their instincts and insist on doing the same for added-on time. A stoppage for something like Innis incidents warrants much more time because the referee "feels" that it is important! So you get eight minutes.
If a player honestly pulls up with cramp and lies on the ground for five minutes, you only get a minute added on because the ref can't be bothered to worry about it.
Genuine question. The manager of your choice if you could choose any from outside the premier, would do what with this squad?
Before you say “play 433!” I mean, where would we finish in the league?
I'd go for Dave Challinor the Stockport manager. Has a good CV and knows how to set a team up. He's used to getting the best out of journeyman players.
Then the next poster will tell you he hasn't got a promotion from Div1 to Championship on his CV and hasn't been out of the lower leagues.
JJ was part of the Powel record points side to promotion and assistant to Bowyer's promotion, so one could argue he has a good idea of what is needed. Yet anyone else regardless is better than Jackson according to many on here.
Whether Jackson is the right bloke or not I don't know but till there is a clear out of this squads dead wood and too comfortable zone players any manager is going to struggle. The answer to the question will only be revealed next season. Non of us know, we are only going to be guessing and you can't keep sacking managers every time when you know for a fact the most of the squad of players are neither up for it or good enough.
I get the frustration, yet we all know third of the squad are not interested they either know they are on the way out or want to be, thus a recipe for all the crap that is now overtaking.
JJ has nothing on his CV as a manager whatever he achieved as a player and was part of the previous failed coaching setup. If the club setup was better we wouldn't be sacking managers as we'd have a better framework in place.
Our current failure is not simply down to the players.
I hope JJ succeeds but can't see much evidence at present.
What I would say about Powell was that it was clear something was building from quite early in the summer window. We have a window that goes like last summer and it won't be looking good.
What I would say about Powell was that it was clear something was building from quite early in the summer window. We have a window that goes like last summer and it won't be looking good.
The squad Powell inherited from Parkinson was pretty awful - he struggled with it even more than Parky did.
The squad we have now is better but is anyone confident it will improve much over the summer?
What I would say about Powell was that it was clear something was building from quite early in the summer window. We have a window that goes like last summer and it won't be looking good.
The squad Powell inherited from Parkinson was pretty awful - he struggled with it even more than Parky did.
The squad we have now is better but is anyone confident it will improve much over the summer?
I would say that is a fair assessment even if it doesn't feel like it to many. As for confidence, I don't know. The proof of the pudding is always in the eating. We ought to get a feel for things a while before the season starts.
Not sure I quite agree with categorizing the CAFC support as “regulars” and others, as if this gives one section of support have more right to an opinion than another, or in some way minimizes the thoughts of the “not regulars”. A bit Orwellian in a 4 legs good, 2 legs bad kinda way.
I happen to live in NY so am not on the local supporters bus route, but have been a fan since my first game in 1968, been to Wembley twice, held season tickets as a youth and as an adult, watched the covered end fire, been away with Charlton and currently subscribe to the season Charlton TV. I feel I am entitled to an equivalent opinion, people of course may agree or disagree, but it’s still an informed opinion whether or not I have the smell of the Valley ringing in my ears and only experience the drudge from the comfort of my sofa.
Anyway, notwithstanding that digression into semantics, I thought despite this, these 2 points were excellent and worth repeating as they mirror some of what I have been screaming into the ether
why is it that when he got the job, we excellently applied the high press, trapping top 6 teams, Plymouth and Rotherham, in their own half and winning the ball high up the pitch. Why did this suddenly stop?
……….The club is a shambles from top to bottom…... We want an experienced CEO, we want Keohane out and we want a manager who is able to be flexible in his tactical play and can improve players.
Only to add to this
1. That manager could be Jackson with the right players and 2. We also want an organised, well structured and well financed targeted Recruitment strategy, not the late shambles of recent windows.
PS - Innis just tweeted he has arrived at the tackle, his launch was delayed apparently. Glad to hear he arrived, I had started to worry
Not sure I quite agree with categorizing the CAFC support as “regulars” and others, as if this gives one section of support have more right to an opinion than another, or in some way minimizes the thoughts of the “not regulars”. A bit Orwellian in a 4 legs good, 2 legs bad kinda way.
I happen to live in NY so am not on the local supporters bus route, but have been a fan since my first game in 1968, been to Wembley twice, held season tickets as a youth and as an adult, watched the covered end fire, been away with Charlton and currently subscribe to the season Charlton TV. I feel I am entitled to an equivalent opinion, people of course may agree or disagree, but it’s still an informed opinion whether or not I have the smell of the Valley ringing in my ears and only experience the drudge from the comfort of my sofa.
Anyway, notwithstanding that digression into semantics, I thought despite this, these 2 points were excellent and worth repeating as they mirror some of what I have been screaming into the ether
why is it that when he got the job, we excellently applied the high press, trapping top 6 teams, Plymouth and Rotherham, in their own half and winning the ball high up the pitch. Why did this suddenly stop?
……….The club is a shambles from top to bottom…... We want an experienced CEO, we want Keohane out and we want a manager who is able to be flexible in his tactical play and can improve players.
Only to add to this
1. That manager could be Jackson with the right players and 2. We also want an organised, well structured and well financed targeted Recruitment strategy, not the late shambles of recent windows.
It's asking a lot of any manager, especially an inexperienced one, to do well with the current setup. Will we get a new CEO?
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
I thought it was 11 in L1. Some of the others were in Pizza cup? and against Premier league Juniors? He does score , reasonable when its on a plate, and capable of winning headers in attack and defence, and some hold up play but lacks even medium pace, dribbling skills....some movement (slight) in front of goal but nil on rest of pitch. Cant remember seeing Washington or him passing to each other- can you or maybe I've got Alzheimers. A good back up striker , or maybe first choice in one or two particularly physical games in a season. So better than some in League1 but needs a lot talent around him to compensate for shortcomings.
All I know, for all their qualities, Stockley, Washington & Aneke wont get us promotion next season. Even if you then add in Kanu and a (young) loanee.
We need a reliable, consistent striker. Yes they are like hens teeth & yes they cost money.....but we will be losing lots more staying in this league season after season.
Now that the dust has settled on everything else I'll get on one of my favourite hobby-horses.
Eight minutes injury time? Eight effing minutes? Eff off. Six maybe. Eight was a joke. Although the ref did spend getting on a minute standing over Purrington refusing him attention, which turned out to be a disgracefully bad decision, and if he is out for a while as a result, that's on the ref.
But what of the 4th official? All of them. What do they do? What do they not do? Nobody actually knows, not even the occasional Lifer who refs. Do they play a role in time-keeping? Do they advise the ref? If so, what about? Was it not the 4th official who advised the ref to come over and book Jackson, who was incensed about the way the ref allowed a free kick to be taken 10 yards forward from where the -supposed - offence took place? There was that utter shambles the other week when CBT was booked after waiting an age to get back on, and came on, believing the 4th official had let him on.
Matt Slater at the Athletic has said he agrees there's a story there about how exactly extra time is worked out, and why there seems to be more of it in England than on the Continent if we are all following the same UEFA/FIFA rules and guidance, and I'll mention the whole 4th official thing.
So much money in the English game and this stuff is amateur hour, we all deserve better, and most of all we deserve to know what the sodding system actually is.
I noticed in the old firm Derby on Sunday there was 0 mins added on the first half. None.The ref blew up about 5 secs after 45 mins were up. And there had been 2 goals as well.
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
I thought it was 11 in L1. Some of the others were in Pizza cup? and against Premier league Juniors? He does score , reasonable when its on a plate, and capable of winning headers in attack and defence, and some hold up play but lacks even medium pace, dribbling skills....some movement (slight) in front of goal but nil on rest of pitch. Cant remember seeing Washington or him passing to each other- can you or maybe I've got Alzheimers. A good back up striker , or maybe first choice in one or two particularly physical games in a season. So better than some in League1 but needs a lot talent around him to compensate for shortcomings.
All I know, for all their qualities, Stockley, Washington & Aneke wont get us promotion next season. Even if you then add in Kanu and a (young) loanee.
We need a reliable, consistent striker. Yes they are like hens teeth & yes they cost money.....but we will be losing lots more staying in this league season after season.
Stockley not consistent enough?
The lack of goals across the team is just as big a problem.
Meanwhile BWP went on a long run without scoring in our promotion season.
Difference is the 11/12 team had Jackson, Wagstaff, Green, Hollands and Stephens all contributing goals from midfield, plus others around the team scoring here and there.
I do not buy the idea that the team is playing badly at the moment because players know they are on the way out or are so to speak on the beach as the season is over. If the above is the case then they must have known that from game 1 of the season Because as far as I can tell they are playing as badly now as then.
All of you bleating about not wanting 'to watch this shit anymore', or ' I don't want to renew my season ticket ', then don't: you're under no obligation to do so. We're a third division club with third division players and a third division manager, yet the expectations/sense of entitlement on here exceed these basic facts. Supporting Charlton means supporting a club that has no guarantee of success - two play-off wins at Wembley, anyone? - and, at times, watching turgid football played by average players. I probably watch 10 - 12 games a season now the the lad's away and can probably afford to be more sanguine about what happens on the pitch, but it's still Charlton, a team that will infuriate and disappoint, but one that I'm still proud to call my team.
If you shopped in Waitrose or M&S you would correctly feel entitled to better products than if you'd gone to Netto.
We are currently below Cheltenham and other clubs with worse resources, cheaper tickets and lower paid players than at Charlton.
But that's OK - let's all just lower our expectations to that level, and go happily along with it.
When die hard regulars of many years standing moan then the club need to listen. Contrary to what others say on here, if you've been watching Charlton for 40,50,60 plus years and attending week in week out, year after year after year, you do know your stuff and how Charlton should look and play. We know something is very wrong at the club we love.
I absolutely resent people saying we are Sunday park football players who don't understand the game. That is utter tosh. In my opinion (and I have discussed this with others that have watched us for over 50 years) sometimes managers get too close to players and make decisions based on performance and/or attitude in training etc. To me all that counts is performance on the pitch as to whether players should get game time. Possibly Gilbey is a case in point based on how Jackson speaks about him. That also goes for excellent shot saving goalkeepers that lose out to keepers that are better with their feet. Nonsense.
@Redskin and @Davo53 aren't regulars, have not lived and breathed in the flesh the absolute rubbish on display this season. I banged on about something a couple of months back and someone brought it up again after yesterday's performance - why is it that when he got the job, we excellently applied the high press, trapping top 6 teams, Plymouth and Rotherham, in their own half and winning the ball high up the pitch. Why did this suddenly stop?
Why have players regressed under us ie Lee, Kirk, DJ? The club is a shambles from top to bottom and it appears management merely pay lip service to fans views. We want an experienced CEO, we want Keohane out and we want a manager who is able to be flexible in his tactical play and can improve players. Premiership ready - My arse, just win games. So fed up with it all.
Nail on head, bb, and sadly so.
The building blocks that we expect to be in place at our club, the foundations on which to build success are no longer in place IMO.
Underwhelming SMT, no on site CEO, lack of sufficient staff - all pointing to the reasons why errors are made in communications ( eg in the season ticket structure published on Saturday), corner are cut, emails unanswered & the whole club appears to be lacking in professionalism ( if there's such a word !) A very sad & worrying state of affairs.
Stabilise, underpin the creaking structure & revise the priorities....Fill The Valley will come ( maybe) in time, and when it's deserved, not before.
Now that the dust has settled on everything else I'll get on one of my favourite hobby-horses.
Eight minutes injury time? Eight effing minutes? Eff off. Six maybe. Eight was a joke. Although the ref did spend getting on a minute standing over Purrington refusing him attention, which turned out to be a disgracefully bad decision, and if he is out for a while as a result, that's on the ref.
But what of the 4th official? All of them. What do they do? What do they not do? Nobody actually knows, not even the occasional Lifer who refs. Do they play a role in time-keeping? Do they advise the ref? If so, what about? Was it not the 4th official who advised the ref to come over and book Jackson, who was incensed about the way the ref allowed a free kick to be taken 10 yards forward from where the -supposed - offence took place? There was that utter shambles the other week when CBT was booked after waiting an age to get back on, and came on, believing the 4th official had let him on.
Matt Slater at the Athletic has said he agrees there's a story there about how exactly extra time is worked out, and why there seems to be more of it in England than on the Continent if we are all following the same UEFA/FIFA rules and guidance, and I'll mention the whole 4th official thing.
So much money in the English game and this stuff is amateur hour, we all deserve better, and most of all we deserve to know what the sodding system actually is.
I noticed in the old firm Derby on Sunday there was 0 mins added on the first half. None.The ref blew up about 5 secs after 45 mins were up. And there had been 2 goals as well.
Exactly. Seen it a lot on the continent. Never in England. Never.
I’ll just repeat the glaring obvious solution. Give the responsibility to the 4th official. Have his timepiece wired to the stadium clock. He thinks something is worth stopping for, he stops his watch. We all see when he stopped it, and when he re-started it. We all see exactly how much tíme there is left, then the electronic whistle blowś automatically, like in ice hockey.
Comments
If they do want rid, are they involved in the recruitment of a new coach?
Either way it is still a no from me. If you want someone in that sort of advisory/consultancy position they need to be completely unbiased, and detached from the current set up. Which neither of them are - Curbs will certainly have his bias towards Gilbey for example.
JJ was part of the Powel record points side to promotion and assistant to Bowyer's promotion, so one could argue he has a good idea of what is needed. Yet anyone else regardless is better than Jackson according to many on here.
Whether Jackson is the right bloke or not I don't know but till there is a clear out of this squads dead wood and too comfortable zone players any manager is going to struggle. The answer to the question will only be revealed next season. Non of us know, we are only going to be guessing and you can't keep sacking managers every time when you know for a fact the most of the squad of players are neither up for it or good enough.
I get the frustration, yet we all know third of the squad are not interested they either know they are on the way out or want to be, thus a recipe for all the crap that is now overtaking.
Referees have to make many judgements during a game based on their instincts and insist on doing the same for added-on time. A stoppage for something like Innis incidents warrants much more time because the referee "feels" that it is important! So you get eight minutes.
If a player honestly pulls up with cramp and lies on the ground for five minutes, you only get a minute added on because the ref can't be bothered to worry about it.
It drives me crazy!
If the club setup was better we wouldn't be sacking managers as we'd have a better framework in place.
Our current failure is not simply down to the players.
I hope JJ succeeds but can't see much evidence at present.
The squad we have now is better but is anyone confident it will improve much over the summer?
I happen to live in NY so am not on the local supporters bus route, but have been a fan since my first game in 1968, been to Wembley twice, held season tickets as a youth and as an adult, watched the covered end fire, been away with Charlton and currently subscribe to the season Charlton TV. I feel I am entitled to an equivalent opinion, people of course may agree or disagree, but it’s still an informed opinion whether or not I have the smell of the Valley ringing in my ears and only experience the drudge from the comfort of my sofa.
Anyway, notwithstanding that digression into semantics, I thought despite this, these 2 points were excellent and worth repeating as they mirror some of what I have been screaming into the ether
why is it that when he got the job, we excellently applied the high press, trapping top 6 teams, Plymouth and Rotherham, in their own half and winning the ball high up the pitch. Why did this suddenly stop?
……….The club is a shambles from top to bottom…... We want an experienced CEO, we want Keohane out and we want a manager who is able to be flexible in his tactical play and can improve players.
Only to add to this
1. That manager could be Jackson with the right players and
2. We also want an organised, well structured and well financed targeted Recruitment strategy, not the late shambles of recent windows.
PS - Innis just tweeted he has arrived at the tackle, his launch was delayed apparently. Glad to hear he arrived, I had started to worry
We need a reliable, consistent striker. Yes they are like hens teeth & yes they cost money.....but we will be losing lots more staying in this league season after season.
The lack of goals across the team is just as big a problem.
Difference is the 11/12 team had Jackson, Wagstaff, Green, Hollands and Stephens all contributing goals from midfield, plus others around the team scoring here and there.
Because as far as I can tell they are playing as badly now as then.
If you shopped in Waitrose or M&S you would correctly feel entitled to better products than if you'd gone to Netto.
We are currently below Cheltenham and other clubs with worse resources, cheaper tickets and lower paid players than at Charlton.
But that's OK - let's all just lower our expectations to that level, and go happily along with it.
Entitlement - what a load of old rot.
The building blocks that we expect to be in place at our club, the foundations on which to build success are no longer in place IMO.
Underwhelming SMT, no on site CEO, lack of sufficient staff - all pointing to the reasons why errors are made in communications ( eg in the season ticket structure published on Saturday), corner are cut, emails unanswered & the whole club appears to be lacking in professionalism ( if there's such a word !) A very sad & worrying state of affairs.
Stabilise, underpin the creaking structure & revise the priorities....Fill The Valley will come ( maybe) in time, and when it's deserved, not before.
But, as always, what do I know ?
I’ll just repeat the glaring obvious solution. Give the responsibility to the 4th official. Have his timepiece wired to the stadium clock. He thinks something is worth stopping for, he stops his watch. We all see when he stopped it, and when he re-started it. We all see exactly how much tíme there is left, then the electronic whistle blowś automatically, like in ice hockey.