Washington's defending for their goal wasn't too clever. Looks like might have been trained by Leko on how to defend out wide.
Haven’t watched the video again but remember it from the game.
He has already done the same a couple of times up front, steaming in to close a player down and over-committing.
I had pointed out the two previous occasions to my 12 year old Son who at his football training is taught to run up but slow down an jockey in the final yards.
I like Washington but he should have done better last night.
Washington's defending for their goal wasn't too clever. Looks like might have been trained by Leko on how to defend out wide.
Haven’t watched the video again but remember it from the game.
He has already done the same a couple of times up front, steaming in to close a player down and over-committing.
I had pointed out the two previous occasions to my 12 year old Son who at his football training is taught to run up but slow down an jockey in the final yards.
I like Washington but he should have done better last night.
Never seen a Charlton team quite like this one for getting the basics wrong time and time again. It’s clear some (most?) of these players don’t want to do the boring bits out on the field which shows a collective lack of character.
Not read any other comments. No need, we all saw the same game.
Just to say I turned over the TV when Inniss got sent off, never done it before, hopefully never will again, but going through a particularly stressful time at the moment (nothing "bad" just stressful) I just couldn't put up any longer with watching something that is supposed to be entertainment but is just annoying 95% of the time.
I do have some sympathy with JJ, how can a manager do anything about stupidity like we have seen from Gilbey and Inniss in the last two games? He didn't even sign them.
A lot of us were half joking before the game that the Charlton charity would gift 3 points to Wimbledon, but I doubt many seriously thought we would lose, the fact that (even with 11 men on the pitch) there were times.when we actually COULD have is pretty shocking tbh.
The all too familiar 10-20 minute good spell followed by more obvious rubbish. Inniss, doesn't even need mentioning, total bellend.
And about the good and bad spells we have, when saying this I (we, I'm far from the only one) don't mean we were/ weren't playing Pep/ Klopp/ Barcelona ball etc. We are, absolutely awful for 90mins all the time.
The first 10 minutes we were good, but only good in the sense that we had all the possession and fashioned a couple of chances - but it was frantic and scrappy - unconvincing - and that's how we always look, once the opposition grows into the game we look much worse because we lose the ball and end up under pressure more - so we look "scrappy and awful now" but that play is ALWAYS there...
And its this constant failure at simple thing's, positioning, discipline, passing, game management that's making me think more and more that Jackson is a big part of the problem, other than random bits of individual play (Matthews run and cross last night) there's nothing to our game other than 15 - 20 mins of frantic running with the odd chance and build up while on top, then 70 odd mins of frantic clueless running because we can't get the ball back/ impose ourselves on an organised team.
I've been in the we need a change in recruitment/ different manager same problem camp, but I'm losing a shit ton of belief that Jacko can deliver even with an upturn in player quality.
A lot being made of Inniss letting us down (I agree) but he could've easily busted the Wimbledon player's leg with such an out of control lunge. That was the real crime.
Genuine question. The manager of your choice if you could choose any from outside the premier, would do what with this squad?
Before you say “play 433!” I mean, where would we finish in the league?
I'd go for Dave Challinor the Stockport manager. Has a good CV and knows how to set a team up. He's used to getting the best out of journeyman players.
A lot being made of Inniss letting us down (I agree) but he could've easily busted the Wimbledon player's leg with such an out of control lunge. That was the real crime.
An utterly dreadful challenge and also completely pointless - wtf was he thinking?
Matthews puts in a great some great crosses as well as decent long throws, one of the few to be in form at this time .. an expected point against desperate opposition .. good goal from Stockley .. hope Lavelle is not out for too long .. not a bad, equally not a good performance .. least said about Innis the better .. see how we go against the Millers this weekend, that will be a real test
Another completely pedestrian-paced performance with too many players now fully oiled-up and ready for the beach playing crab football or whacking it long hoping Stockley or Washington fashion a chance out of a punt.
Forster-Caskey, I'm glad he is fit after another horrible injury but he was in Dobsons way tonight and as much as I bet the idea was to use him as the kind of quarter-back spraying balls left right and centre we do not have players with the footballing intelligence to play that way. Besides that it left a fucking massive gap in our own midfield.
Those becoming the formation are onto a loser I'm afraid. 352, 433, 532, 442, 4132 It matters not if we do not win the midfield. All those formations are about outnumbering the opposition in midfield and dominating possession in the middle of the field. However we cut it, that doesn't happen and for some explicable reason either the players of manager abandoned the excellent intensity and pressing game utilised when Jackson first took charge. So we are left with a load of undymanic players, playing square balls to each other until one tries to do something at which point the rest having all gone into stasis-mode fail to react and watch their mate disappear down a blind alley, fail to keep up with play, read a through ball or for Washington to fashion a goal out of the appalling service him and Stockley get.
I think we have a toxic group of players personally, not venomously toxic like actively seeking to disrupt or remove the manager they don't get on with, worse, lazy-toxic. They want to be footballers but don't want to perform the basic fundamentals let alone go the extra yard which most others players in this shite league are, they are trying to get out of it by either showing how good they are to get a move or by working hard as a unit to get promoted as a team.
Genuinely fans of clubs like Gillingham, Morecombe, Accrington, Plymouth, Oxford even though some sit rightly higher than us would love to have some of the playing staff we do.
Gilbeys sending off on Saturday made my blood boil, he wasn't taking one for the team, he was doing something he knew would get him 2 mickey mouse yellows and would miss the AFC game where as an ex MK player he would have got a lot of hostility, that tells me all I need to know about his character and its not a character we need. Inniss sadly the same, he can't do much about his body breaking down every 5 weeks but he absolutely is in control of his own decision making and we could all see the moment he took the heaviest touch seen on a professional pitch, by a man paid to play the game, what was going to happen. I could excuse myself making a tackle like that as I was at best a mediocre, horrible footballer paying to play with my pisshead pals against a load of other pissheads. Inniss is a full time professional and it isn't the first time he has done something like that. I want to love the guy and he could have been an absolute talisman for us but the return he gives is not worth the squad place I'm afraid
The keeper, he seems like a nice guy and I'm sure he is but he is a liability, his failure to dominate his box has cost us so many goals and worse, it means the defence lose all their shape and organisation too as they have no idea of hw os going to come for a ball or not so they aren't looking to attack a ball until its almost on there head.
Like others have said, we need a non-sentimental purge at the club, bring in a strong core of physically robust players with a bit about them character-wise and focus on ones who have something to prove and are on the way up.
As far as formations go, I like a diamond with expressive full backs who aren't afraid of crossing the halfway line. Like any of the others though it needs players to do what they are told to for it to be of any use at all
Wimbledon deserved their point, Matthews long run and cross was a stand out moment, Inniss can shove Gilbey along the naughty step to make room for himself (WTAFF) and a new stadium to tick off. Was in the Directors box for the game and dinner and company were my highlights for the evening. Was made to feel very welcome. A quick chat with JJ right at the end was a nice touch too, as were exchanges with SG and MS.
We are playing for absolutely nothing and as such I didn’t think the team put in too bad a performance. 11 men for 90 mins and I genuinely believe the 3 points would have been ours. Roll on season end and let’s get some building work done…
No offence my friend but if you thought the team put in not too bad a performance all I can say is you must have had some good hospitality before the game! 😂
12 hours later I still can't believe the utter rubbish that we churned out last night and the total mess that this side is.
Managed to miss the first 10 minutes owing to a big queue at the only turnstile and with it, apparently, our only decent spell of the game. Thereafter, we served up total dross, save for Matthews' excellent run and cross for the goal, which was totally out of keeping with the rest of a dire game.
I really don't know where we go from here. The structure of the team is poor, there is no real pattern of play and the side is littered with weak and underperforming players. You have to wonder what the hell is going on at Sparrow's Lane.
On the plus side, at least Inniss' disgraceful assault on the Wimbledon player didn't seriously injure him - it could very easily have ended his career.
Wimbledon deserved their point, Matthews long run and cross was a stand out moment, Inniss can shove Gilbey along the naughty step to make room for himself (WTAFF) and a new stadium to tick off. Was in the Directors box for the game and dinner and company were my highlights for the evening. Was made to feel very welcome. A quick chat with JJ right at the end was a nice touch too, as were exchanges with SG and MS.
We are playing for absolutely nothing and as such I didn’t think the team put in too bad a performance. 11 men for 90 mins and I genuinely believe the 3 points would have been ours. Roll on season end and let’s get some building work done…
A pal of mine was in the same area and said we were dogshit.
All of you bleating about not wanting 'to watch this shit anymore', or ' I don't want to renew my season ticket ', then don't: you're under no obligation to do so. We're a third division club with third division players and a third division manager, yet the expectations/sense of entitlement on here exceed these basic facts. Supporting Charlton means supporting a club that has no guarantee of success - two play-off wins at Wembley, anyone? - and, at times, watching turgid football played by average players. I probably watch 10 - 12 games a season now the the lad's away and can probably afford to be more sanguine about what happens on the pitch, but it's still Charlton, a team that will infuriate and disappoint, but one that I'm still proud to call my team.
Managed to miss the first 10 minutes owing to a big queue at the only turnstile and with it, apparently, our only decent spell of the game. Thereafter, we served up total dross, save for Matthews' excellent run and cross for the goal, which was totally out of keeping with the rest of a dire game.
I really don't know where we go from here. The structure of the team is poor, there is no real pattern of play and the side is littered with weak and underperforming players. You have to wonder what the hell is going on at Sparrow's Lane.
On the plus side, at least Inniss' disgraceful assault on the Wimbledon player didn't seriously injure him - it could very easily have ended his career.
The thing is, I think we do have a pattern of play, and that is to get it out wide and load the opposition box up.
11 seconds into the highlights video (www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H6wJSw2Lz8) is a perfect example of this, and how we ended up against Lincoln constantly at the weekend - with 4 players all close to each other in the left corner of the pitch, two players in the box in attacking positions, and no one in the middle of the park offering another option.
And people wonder why players like Fraser never look effective.
What gets me is how slowly we move the ball and how quickly we run out of options.
I would describe our style of football under JJ as tiki-backa.
We play slow tempo possession, usually going sideways or backwards, until we run out options and whack it up to Stockley or a hopeful throughball to Washington.
Tiki-backa-whacka.
The best teams I've watched in this league play high tempo and know where the runners are going to be. Rotherham are the most effective and rehearsed attacking unit I've seen this season. They're direct, quick and they know where the spaces will open up. Our players don't seem to have a clue.
It's not like we even have the personnel to play low tempo. I can only guess we play this way because the players don't know what they're doing.
Washington's defending for their goal wasn't too clever. Looks like might have been trained by Leko on how to defend out wide.
Yeah damn that striker for not putting in a better challenge after making the initial headed block.
He's defending in the box as it was his role to do so from a corner. He wasn't in there out of voluntary action. Personally, I thought the headed clearance was weak and so was the follow up defending, by everybody (what a surprise). Maybe one man might have helped being dominant in the air, but he disgraced himself 7 minutes in.
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
18 goals in all comps.. 11 in the league. Stockton has 21 in the league, might be wrong but he scored a handful in the pizza cup no?
Not that I think Stockley is a bad player
And Stockton is playing for a small club, at the highest level it's ever played at, a level where Morecambe will naturally be expected to struggle.
2 against Havant & Waterloo and Gateshead in the FA cup, 1 against Aston Villa’s u23s and 2 against Southamptons u23s. Sorry to be that person, but I am not counting any of those on his tally for the season, non league level competition.
A striker is definitely a major priority next season, whoever gets Stockton and has quality elsewhere in the team will likely get play offs. 20 goals for Morecambe in league 1 is fantastic going
Hasn’t Stockley scored 18 goals this season? Better than 1 in 2?
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
18 goals in all comps.. 11 in the league. Stockton has 21 in the league, might be wrong but he scored a handful in the pizza cup no?
Not that I think Stockley is a bad player
League - Stockley (11 in 27 games) | Stockton (21 in 38 games) FA Cup - Stockley (4 in 2 games) | Stockton (1 in 3 games) League Cup - Stockley (1 in 1 game) | Stockton (2 in 2 games) EFL Trophy - Stockley (3 in 2 games) | Stockton (0 in 1 game)
Then for those who care, and according to the BBC in terms of League goals - Stockley has converted 20% of his chances; Stockton has converted 22% of his chances - So there is the potential that Stockton will be just as wasteful in front of goal as our current pairing.
e.g. We don't see him every week, so be interested to see how many times we'd be sitting on MorecambeLife bemoaning the fact that he needs three chances a game to score just the once.
Alfie May might be the better option, as he could then challenge Conor Washington. I dont see us having Stockton | Stockley | Aneke fighting for one position - And under Jackson if we played both, then I hope people are prepared for having a sore neck at 5pm on alternate Saturdays
Don't just look at Cole Stocktons goal return, look at how he plays, he is a menace to defenders, gets in pockets of space and is capable of dropping and being really effective. Its real credit to him and Morecombe he has got the amount of goals he has but he would improve most front-lines in this division
There are some centre forwards in the division below id love us to sign. Mat and Stevens who are at FGR for example, they will cause us endless problems if we had to play them next week. And their full back who is probably destined for bigger things than tier 3 nut id love us to bring him in too
Our goal stood out as a moment of quality in a frantic, head-down, guileless maelstrom of mediocrity. Matthews showed that he is a good crosser of the ball, but a decent overall performance from him cannot erase the memory of persistent rank defending such as lazily and ineptly allowing your opponent inside to unleash a shot and score. And then repeating it the next game. AND THE ONE AFTER THAT! As for Stockley, those as are the sort of opportunities he thrives on and what I always assumed we had bought him for. Not for dealing with aimless hoofing from deep or bailing out his goalie from high balls in our box. He is a limited player but can shine at this level and would score even more goals with regular delivery like that one from Matthews. Did we not chuck money and a long contract at Jaiyesimi to provide such service? Oh, don't tell me he is being asked to fill a role that he isn't used to and wow, his defending is improving. He has contributed 2 assists across the whole season. (One of them was the assist of the century season and I respectfully suggest he will never repeat again in his career). I think DJ is capable of more, but I am sceptical we will ever get consistent quality end product. He is so often head-down hit and hope or else bamboozling himself with self-trickery. CBT show more promise and he worries defenders with his pace, but the jury is still out on end-product. Other people mentioned our apparent penchant for recruiting players that have excelled elsewhere then asking them to play in a different position or system that doesn't suit their attributes. I suppose DJ and Charlie Kirk are the obvious examples. It now begs the question will we ever get the best out of Fraser. I'd like to see Fraser and JFC together, although on yesterdays evidence they will be bypassed by hopeful punts in the general direction of Stockley and Washington in the hope that they'll "do something". I share the view of those that fear that the red cards for Gilbey and Innis go beyond individual stupidity and reflect a deeper malaise within the club. I share the doubts others have voiced about Jacko and the coaching team. However, I somewhat reluctantly feel he should be given the chance to influence the summer recruitment to see if he can shape his own squad and see what he can do with it. That said, I agree he should be getting more of a tune out of the current crop. Unfortunately I have no faith in the recruitment team to deliver the quality required and the right fit for the team and club. Finally, I have lost faith in the owner. Running a football is not "just common sense" and the club is in dire need of the right expertise and guidance to assist him.
Behind all of these comments I think the general feeling is that we want Jackson to succeed, should someone without the history of Charlton behind them then the manager would have been slammed and people demanding a sacking.
A criticism, it seems that the players are going through the motions and possibly Jackson cannot motivate players.
Comments
He has already done the same a couple of times up front, steaming in to close a player down and over-committing.
I had pointed out the two previous occasions to my 12 year old Son who at his football training is taught to run up but slow down an jockey in the final yards.
I like Washington but he should have done better last night.
Just to say I turned over the TV when Inniss got sent off, never done it before, hopefully never will again, but going through a particularly stressful time at the moment (nothing "bad" just stressful) I just couldn't put up any longer with watching something that is supposed to be entertainment but is just annoying 95% of the time.
I do have some sympathy with JJ, how can a manager do anything about stupidity like we have seen from Gilbey and Inniss in the last two games? He didn't even sign them.
The all too familiar 10-20 minute good spell followed by more obvious rubbish. Inniss, doesn't even need mentioning, total bellend.
And about the good and bad spells we have, when saying this I (we, I'm far from the only one) don't mean we were/ weren't playing Pep/ Klopp/ Barcelona ball etc. We are, absolutely awful for 90mins all the time.
The first 10 minutes we were good, but only good in the sense that we had all the possession and fashioned a couple of chances - but it was frantic and scrappy - unconvincing - and that's how we always look, once the opposition grows into the game we look much worse because we lose the ball and end up under pressure more - so we look "scrappy and awful now" but that play is ALWAYS there...
And its this constant failure at simple thing's, positioning, discipline, passing, game management that's making me think more and more that Jackson is a big part of the problem, other than random bits of individual play (Matthews run and cross last night) there's nothing to our game other than 15 - 20 mins of frantic running with the odd chance and build up while on top, then 70 odd mins of frantic clueless running because we can't get the ball back/ impose ourselves on an organised team.
I've been in the we need a change in recruitment/ different manager same problem camp, but I'm losing a shit ton of belief that Jacko can deliver even with an upturn in player quality.
edit: just seen Eltham Addick make the same point…
12 hours later I still can't believe the utter rubbish that we churned out last night and the total mess that this side is.
I really don't know where we go from here. The structure of the team is poor, there is no real pattern of play and the side is littered with weak and underperforming players. You have to wonder what the hell is going on at Sparrow's Lane.
On the plus side, at least Inniss' disgraceful assault on the Wimbledon player didn't seriously injure him - it could very easily have ended his career.
We're a third division club with third division players and a third division manager, yet the expectations/sense of entitlement on here exceed these basic facts.
Supporting Charlton means supporting a club that has no guarantee of success - two play-off wins at Wembley, anyone? - and, at times, watching turgid football played by average players.
I probably watch 10 - 12 games a season now the the lad's away and can probably afford to be more sanguine about what happens on the pitch, but it's still Charlton, a team that will infuriate and disappoint, but one that I'm still proud to call my team.
11 seconds into the highlights video (www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H6wJSw2Lz8) is a perfect example of this, and how we ended up against Lincoln constantly at the weekend - with 4 players all close to each other in the left corner of the pitch, two players in the box in attacking positions, and no one in the middle of the park offering another option.
And people wonder why players like Fraser never look effective.
I would describe our style of football under JJ as tiki-backa.
We play slow tempo possession, usually going sideways or backwards, until we run out options and whack it up to Stockley or a hopeful throughball to Washington.
Tiki-backa-whacka.
The best teams I've watched in this league play high tempo and know where the runners are going to be. Rotherham are the most effective and rehearsed attacking unit I've seen this season. They're direct, quick and they know where the spaces will open up. Our players don't seem to have a clue.
It's not like we even have the personnel to play low tempo. I can only guess we play this way because the players don't know what they're doing.
Not that I think Stockley is a bad player
FA Cup - Stockley (4 in 2 games) | Stockton (1 in 3 games)
League Cup - Stockley (1 in 1 game) | Stockton (2 in 2 games)
EFL Trophy - Stockley (3 in 2 games) | Stockton (0 in 1 game)
Then for those who care, and according to the BBC in terms of League goals - Stockley has converted 20% of his chances; Stockton has converted 22% of his chances - So there is the potential that Stockton will be just as wasteful in front of goal as our current pairing.
e.g. We don't see him every week, so be interested to see how many times we'd be sitting on MorecambeLife bemoaning the fact that he needs three chances a game to score just the once.
Alfie May might be the better option, as he could then challenge Conor Washington. I dont see us having Stockton | Stockley | Aneke fighting for one position - And under Jackson if we played both, then I hope people are prepared for having a sore neck at 5pm on alternate Saturdays
There are some centre forwards in the division below id love us to sign. Mat and Stevens who are at FGR for example, they will cause us endless problems if we had to play them next week. And their full back who is probably destined for bigger things than tier 3 nut id love us to bring him in too
Matthews showed that he is a good crosser of the ball, but a decent overall performance from him cannot erase the memory of persistent rank defending such as lazily and ineptly allowing your opponent inside to unleash a shot and score. And then repeating it the next game. AND THE ONE AFTER THAT!
As for Stockley, those as are the sort of opportunities he thrives on and what I always assumed we had bought him for. Not for dealing with aimless hoofing from deep or bailing out his goalie from high balls in our box. He is a limited player but can shine at this level and would score even more goals with regular delivery like that one from Matthews.
Did we not chuck money and a long contract at Jaiyesimi to provide such service?
Oh, don't tell me he is being asked to fill a role that he isn't used to and wow, his defending is improving.
He has contributed 2 assists across the whole season. (One of them was the assist of the century season and I respectfully suggest he will never repeat again in his career).
I think DJ is capable of more, but I am sceptical we will ever get consistent quality end product.
He is so often head-down hit and hope or else bamboozling himself with self-trickery.
CBT show more promise and he worries defenders with his pace, but the jury is still out on end-product.
Other people mentioned our apparent penchant for recruiting players that have excelled elsewhere then asking them to play in a different position or system that doesn't suit their attributes.
I suppose DJ and Charlie Kirk are the obvious examples.
It now begs the question will we ever get the best out of Fraser.
I'd like to see Fraser and JFC together, although on yesterdays evidence they will be bypassed by hopeful punts in the general direction of Stockley and Washington in the hope that they'll "do something".
I share the view of those that fear that the red cards for Gilbey and Innis go beyond individual stupidity and reflect a deeper malaise within the club.
I share the doubts others have voiced about Jacko and the coaching team.
However, I somewhat reluctantly feel he should be given the chance to influence the summer recruitment to see if he can shape his own squad and see what he can do with it.
That said, I agree he should be getting more of a tune out of the current crop.
Unfortunately I have no faith in the recruitment team to deliver the quality required and the right fit for the team and club.
Finally, I have lost faith in the owner.
Running a football is not "just common sense" and the club is in dire need of the right expertise and guidance to assist him.