Our "Wingers" are effectively forwards. Chaps who were main men in their previous team so given some freedom. Time will tell if they can adjust to our setup. At a minimum, they need to press and not stand still! That's not tactically driven. The only player allowed to do that is C Ronaldo in football (at the age of 36) and we know why.
Our "Wingers" are effectively forwards. Chaps who were main men in their previous team so given some freedom. Time will tell if they can adjust to our setup. At a minimum, they need to press and not stand still! That's not tactically driven. The only player allowed to do that is C Ronaldo in football (at the age of 36) and we know why.
They still have defensive duties if we are being overrun surely? I'm not clear what Adkins was watching in the first 45?
We're not creating anything and get overrun at the back - seems a recipe for disaster.
Went there saturday expecting to see us win comfortably - first half was probably as bad as i have ever seen. Don't want to see Watson or Gunter in that team again unless its an absolute emergency. Jaysemi and Kirk need dropping - passengers, the pair of them. Leko and Washington need to start. I like Lee. Stockley needs a strike partner and i'd say that should be Leko. We need a plan b though coz when stockley gets bossed like he did saturday, he might as well be subbed off. For the occassional hollywood ball morgan does, there is so much else missing from his game, i'd be happy not to see him feature for a while. Hopefully Arter can start next game, possibly with Dobson. If Arter does the business, we might just be able to turn this crap around - if he is no use either then i think its game over for the season and a thorough inquest into our recruitment needs to be undertaken coz we can't repeat this again. I feel sorry for TS - he deserves better.
Agree with most of this but I think a few are being harsh on Gunter. Since his arrival he has been constantly played out of position which would not be his choice. He should be judged on his performances as RB and in that position I may put him in front of Matthews who does not seem to be able to perform at L1 level as well as he did in the Championship.
Taylor and Leko looked decent in the Championship. No reason why Stockley and Leko won't. I would prefer proper wing backs and a holding midfielder sitting in front of the defence, but we have spent a lot of money on wide players and so your central midfield has to be spot on. Watson and Morgan is not the answer and never will be with the formation and personnel we have. Clare isn't either IMO,
Taylor was a lot more mobile than Stockley. We need to get Stockley to start pulling the CB's out of position to make space for others.
But we lost Taylor long before Aneke. It isn't Aneke per se, it is just we had a squad at the end of last season which was borderline automatic promotion quality. It isn't always possible, but surely you try to improve on that rather than throw important chunks of it away. I have acknowledged that illness and injury is something that hasn't helped either.
Given that we possibly couldn't have kept Aneke, where were the goals we lost being put back in? And Goals we lost from Gilbey and JFC too! And that could have been in different positions. We seemed to hope that players that throughout their careers have shown they are goal a season merchants would suddenly find the net. Even now, some people are calling for Clare to come in!
And that as my point re Taylor, he did leave long before Aneke and he hasn't been replaced, so his goals were never replaced and now we have lost Aneke's as well. If Taylor had played out his contract we probably would have stayed up but we went down with Aneke in the squad. Last season Aneke's goals weren't enough to get us in a play off spot but a striker scoring close to 20 a season would have been. Take the point re Clare but is he any worse than Morgan? In my opinion Arter with Clare/Dobson should be a step up from Watson and Morgan. Hopefully it will eventually be Arter and Gilbey. Re scoring think we are relying on Leko, Lee and Washington to chip in with quite. A few.
Our "Wingers" are effectively forwards. Chaps who were main men in their previous team so given some freedom. Time will tell if they can adjust to our setup. At a minimum, they need to press and not stand still! That's not tactically driven. The only player allowed to do that is C Ronaldo in football (at the age of 36) and we know why.
Wingers also rely on the full backs getting forward ours don't. Not defending Kirk and DJ but when they have full backs behind them plus two CBs with Watson and Morgan they probably don't see the urgency in tracking back particularly as we only play with one striker and not two.
"It will all be ok when we sign a decent midfield"
then
"It will all be ok when we sign a left back"
then
"It will all be ok when Arter starts"
And now its
"It will all be ok when Gilbey is back"
It's just so laughable.
I'm not going to hold my breath for the inevitable.......
" it will all be ok when JFC is fit"
and the ever reliable
" it will all be ok once the winter transfer window shuts"
You’re right, we’ll be mid table at best but probably relegated. Might as well shut the club down and save ourselves from the misery.
I don’t think anyone is saying one change will reverse our season, but it’s been clear all season that our central midfield isn’t good enough. Improving that will at least give us a chance to compete. Cheltenham would have struggled had we swapped CMs with them, any combination of Watson, Morgan, Clare and Dobson isn’t good enough. We might get away with one playing with a couple of better players.
It’s then not unbelievable to think we’d also improve if Souare is better than Gunter and we start Leko and Washington.
But we lost Taylor long before Aneke. It isn't Aneke per se, it is just we had a squad at the end of last season which was borderline automatic promotion quality. It isn't always possible, but surely you try to improve on that rather than throw important chunks of it away. I have acknowledged that illness and injury is something that hasn't helped either.
Given that we possibly couldn't have kept Aneke, where were the goals we lost being put back in? And Goals we lost from Gilbey and JFC too! And that could have been in different positions. We seemed to hope that players that throughout their careers have shown they are goal a season merchants would suddenly find the net. Even now, some people are calling for Clare to come in!
And that as my point re Taylor, he did leave long before Aneke and he hasn't been replaced, so his goals were never replaced and now we have lost Aneke's as well. If Taylor had played out his contract we probably would have stayed up but we went down with Aneke in the squad. Last season Aneke's goals weren't enough to get us in a play off spot but a striker scoring close to 20 a season would have been. Take the point re Clare but is he any worse than Morgan? In my opinion Arter with Clare/Dobson should be a step up from Watson and Morgan. Hopefully it will eventually be Arter and Gilbey. Re scoring think we are relying on Leko, Lee and Washington to chip in with quite. A few.
They have different games of course but it isn't a matter of whether he is any worse than Morgan, but is he any better? What does he bring in? Energy yes, but is probably a downgrade in terms of assists and no better in terms of goal threat. So he can't be the answer. Probably a good bench player for when energy is something we need.
I'm sure Washington and Leko will start the next game. Conor was just rested for this game, due to his international exertions, while Adkins on Saturday not unreasonably started with the same wingers that helped beat Crewe
BUT repeating myself, Souare wasn't fit enough to start on Saturday AND (just as with Aneke and Inniss) his minutes need to be managed. Adkins didn't play Gunter at LB because he was a better option, he played him there because there was nobody else, which is a direct consequence of our transfer decisions this summer. Will Purrington be able to play a part next Saturday?
If Arter wasn't fit or ready enough to even be on our bench, there's no guarantee that he will be ready to start the next match
I'm sure Washington and Leko will start the next game. Conor was just rested for this game, due to his international exertions, while Adkins on Saturday not unreasonably started with the same wingers that helped beat Crewe
BUT repeating myself, Souare wasn't fit enough to start on Saturday AND (just as with Aneke and Inniss) his minutes need to be managed. Adkins didn't play Gunter at LB because he was a better option, he played him there because there was nobody else, which is a direct consequence of our transfer decisions this summer. Will Purrington be able to play a part next Saturday?
If Arter wasn't fit or ready enough to even be on our bench, there's no guarantee that he will be ready to start the next match
But wasn't he deemed fit enough to travel with the Ireland team?
Bottom line is we just ain't good enough. I was expecting a total overhaul of the squad but players like Watson Gunter Matthews and Morgan are still regularly starting for us. As for our new signings Dobson and Clare don't look any better then what we already had. DJ is a waste of space and Kirk looks lost. Hoof ball to Stockley appears to be our main strategy and it's not working I can see it getting worse before it gets better and I have already written this season off.
But we lost Taylor long before Aneke. It isn't Aneke per se, it is just we had a squad at the end of last season which was borderline automatic promotion quality. It isn't always possible, but surely you try to improve on that rather than throw important chunks of it away. I have acknowledged that illness and injury is something that hasn't helped either.
Given that we possibly couldn't have kept Aneke, where were the goals we lost being put back in? And Goals we lost from Gilbey and JFC too! And that could have been in different positions. We seemed to hope that players that throughout their careers have shown they are goal a season merchants would suddenly find the net. Even now, some people are calling for Clare to come in!
And that as my point re Taylor, he did leave long before Aneke and he hasn't been replaced, so his goals were never replaced and now we have lost Aneke's as well. If Taylor had played out his contract we probably would have stayed up but we went down with Aneke in the squad. Last season Aneke's goals weren't enough to get us in a play off spot but a striker scoring close to 20 a season would have been. Take the point re Clare but is he any worse than Morgan? In my opinion Arter with Clare/Dobson should be a step up from Watson and Morgan. Hopefully it will eventually be Arter and Gilbey. Re scoring think we are relying on Leko, Lee and Washington to chip in with quite. A few.
They have different games of course but it isn't a matter of whether he is any worse than Morgan, but is he any better? What does he bring in? Energy yes, but is probably a downgrade in terms of assists and no better in terms of goal threat. So he can't be the answer. Probably a good bench player for when energy is something we need.
They do have different games and I would argue Clare is better defensively as well as having a better engine as you have said. As for goal threat in the last 34 games in L1 Morgan has scored 1 goal so I can't see how Clare could be any worse than that. Anyway not saying Clare is the answer but not sure he should be judged after 4 appearances.
I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
I really don't have much knowledge of players outside of the Charlton bubble and some of the top flight premier league teams so never know if a signing is good or not.
Have noticed that when we signed DJ loads were celebrating (and the same recently with Kirk) that it was a great signing and that he'd played well against us.
However can't say I've seen what the fuss is about with the former so far tbh. I do wonder whether some of the hype when we sign such players is based on genuine insight and knowledge of players or whether it's just a punt and a bit of bluster and that they also don't really have much insight.
Kirk, Lavelle, Lee, Arter, Leko and DJ have been hailed as great acquisitions and Stockley is apparently the best striker in the league according to some.
Whether this is based on anything more on optimism and hope (Leko and Arter aside) will be played out over the next 40 games but I do wonder whether much of it is Chartlon bias i.e. that they have signed for us which may inflate their true ability a bit beyond the reality and that they wouldnt be necessarily heralded as such quality players had they not and were playing elsewhere.
I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
I am also disappointed with DJ but wasn't he man of the match against Crewe?
Can anyone quote what Curbs said after the 1st half on Saturday? because there were so many fundamental errors in how a team should play and link up by Cafc.
I assume it was seen by our overseas fans live and could be watched in the UK later ?
I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
I really don't have much knowledge of players outside of the Charlton bubble and some of the top flight premier league teams so never know if a signing is good or not.
With our quality being questionable for the last 11 months or so, maybe it has been easy for lower quality players to look good against us. How did the same players look against last season's top six?
But we lost Taylor long before Aneke. It isn't Aneke per se, it is just we had a squad at the end of last season which was borderline automatic promotion quality. It isn't always possible, but surely you try to improve on that rather than throw important chunks of it away. I have acknowledged that illness and injury is something that hasn't helped either.
Given that we possibly couldn't have kept Aneke, where were the goals we lost being put back in? And Goals we lost from Gilbey and JFC too! And that could have been in different positions. We seemed to hope that players that throughout their careers have shown they are goal a season merchants would suddenly find the net. Even now, some people are calling for Clare to come in!
And that as my point re Taylor, he did leave long before Aneke and he hasn't been replaced, so his goals were never replaced and now we have lost Aneke's as well. If Taylor had played out his contract we probably would have stayed up but we went down with Aneke in the squad. Last season Aneke's goals weren't enough to get us in a play off spot but a striker scoring close to 20 a season would have been. Take the point re Clare but is he any worse than Morgan? In my opinion Arter with Clare/Dobson should be a step up from Watson and Morgan. Hopefully it will eventually be Arter and Gilbey. Re scoring think we are relying on Leko, Lee and Washington to chip in with quite. A few.
They have different games of course but it isn't a matter of whether he is any worse than Morgan, but is he any better? What does he bring in? Energy yes, but is probably a downgrade in terms of assists and no better in terms of goal threat. So he can't be the answer. Probably a good bench player for when energy is something we need.
They do have different games and I would argue Clare is better defensively as well as having a better engine as you have said. As for goal threat in the last 34 games in L1 Morgan has scored 1 goal so I can't see how Clare could be any worse than that. Anyway not saying Clare is the answer but not sure he should be judged after 4 appearances.
my mate saw clare in the club shop before the game and he said he'd done his achilles - don't know how seriously?
I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
I am also disappointed with DJ but wasn't he man of the match against Crewe?
if he hadn't scored, he might have got hooked at half time - i think that goal masked over his performance - he isn't impressing me - i don't think he knows what he's going to do, leta lone his team mates
Taylor and Leko looked decent in the Championship. No reason why Stockley and Leko won't. I would prefer proper wing backs and a holding midfielder sitting in front of the defence, but we have spent a lot of money on wide players and so your central midfield has to be spot on. Watson and Morgan is not the answer and never will be with the formation and personnel we have. Clare isn't either IMO,
Taylor was a lot more mobile than Stockley. We need to get Stockley to start pulling the CB's out of position to make space for others.
Space for who?
No-one moves.
Washington does as did Leko when he came on.
Then the issue isn't so much Stockley dragging the CBs, it's the system. Down to Adkins to find a system to fit those two and stop wasting everyone's time with Kirk and DJ.
I acknowledge Stockley wasn't at is best on Saturday but it must be extremely frustrating being double and in some cases tripled marked yet still have our defenders hitting it hopelessly towards you.
We've filled our squad with wingers, but I'm starting to wonder if we can afford to have 2 lightweight wingers in our 4231/433 formation, and whether we'd be better playing a Powell style 442, but with one just one winger and a more defensive wide midfielder on the other side.
Or just get the two wingers to work MUCH harder than they did on Saturday. With options on the bench, there is absolutely no excuse for not going full out to close the opposition down and to burst forward when we have the ball. Once their energy is expended, then the subs can be introduced.
The main thing that worries is is how easy our midfield has continued to be carved open. Obviously a glaring issue last season and I'm not impressed by the "improvement" so far this year.
Appreciate with Arter/Gilbey it could work as it should but I'm not convinced.
Also NA's comment about us not supposed to play hoofball but we are either suggests to me the players are useless, coaching hasn't worked or the players aren't playing for nige.
A lot of work to be done but give the man some time so he can try implement the vision with the correct tools at his disposal.
I'm sure Washington and Leko will start the next game. Conor was just rested for this game, due to his international exertions, while Adkins on Saturday not unreasonably started with the same wingers that helped beat Crewe
BUT repeating myself, Souare wasn't fit enough to start on Saturday AND (just as with Aneke and Inniss) his minutes need to be managed. Adkins didn't play Gunter at LB because he was a better option, he played him there because there was nobody else, which is a direct consequence of our transfer decisions this summer. Will Purrington be able to play a part next Saturday?
If Arter wasn't fit or ready enough to even be on our bench, there's no guarantee that he will be ready to start the next match
But wasn't he deemed fit enough to travel with the Ireland team?
Fit enough to be on the Ireland bench twice and miss out once, and not coming on anyway, but then that's a 12 man bench so he might have been there just as an emergency option
Can anyone quote what Curbs said after the 1st half on Saturday? because there were so many fundamental errors in how a team should play and link up by Cafc.
I assume it was seen by our overseas fans live and could be watched in the UK later ?
I'd like to see the half time conversation too. For some reason they have it on the TVs at the ground, but with no sound
Can anyone quote what Curbs said after the 1st half on Saturday? because there were so many fundamental errors in how a team should play and link up by Cafc.
I assume it was seen by our overseas fans live and could be watched in the UK later ?
Difficult to remember now. But he did point out that the wingers weren't tracking back and that was allowing Cheltenham 2v1 on the outside. He said he played with two wingers sometimes but they always tracked back.
He also said maybe when you're not playing well, you should have one winger and one midfielder playing wide. A bit like he used to do when he would Graham Stuart on the right sometimes. He said we looked too open.
He said Stockley had his worst half that he'd seen. Terrible touch. Etc.
i think we need a witchdoctor to lift a curse as whoever we sign seem to go backwards - what on earth do we do to them?
I don't know what we do, what we certainly don't do is make them fitter. We looked fitter against Reading and Palace than we do now. It's not a new problem either.
Taylor and Leko looked decent in the Championship. No reason why Stockley and Leko won't. I would prefer proper wing backs and a holding midfielder sitting in front of the defence, but we have spent a lot of money on wide players and so your central midfield has to be spot on. Watson and Morgan is not the answer and never will be with the formation and personnel we have. Clare isn't either IMO,
Taylor was a lot more mobile than Stockley. We need to get Stockley to start pulling the CB's out of position to make space for others.
Space for who?
No-one moves.
Washington does as did Leko when he came on.
Then the issue isn't so much Stockley dragging the CBs, it's the system. Down to Adkins to find a system to fit those two and stop wasting everyone's time with Kirk and DJ.
I acknowledge Stockley wasn't at is best on Saturday but it must be extremely frustrating being double and in some cases tripled marked yet still have our defenders hitting it hopelessly towards you.
To me it is obvious the system isn't working. Against Crewe with Washington alongside Stockley we looked far better and it seemed the midfield pairing of Watson and Morgan knew where they were playing. DJ also got involved and only Kirk looked to be out of sorts. On Saturday once again Stockley was isolated and out muscled, Lee didn't offer much help to him and the wingers and the same midfield pairing were non existent. The whole team looked as though it had met for the first time and nobody seemed to know what they were supposed to be doing. Not sure what goes on at the training ground but the buck falls with NA when selecting the team, formation and tactics.
"It will all be ok when we sign a decent midfield"
then
"It will all be ok when we sign a left back"
then
"It will all be ok when Arter starts"
And now its
"It will all be ok when Gilbey is back"
It's just so laughable.
I'm not going to hold my breath for the inevitable.......
" it will all be ok when JFC is fit"
and the ever reliable
" it will all be ok once the winter transfer window shuts"
No aimed at you specifically, more an open question.
What is it people want to hear? No one's got a crystal ball and this is the reality of life in League 1 after being pillaged by the likes Southall etc. If NA got the sack, who's gonna come in and make that instant positive impact we need? Surely the best course of action is hope NA shakes things up. Hope whoever is injured, recovers. Hope there's no serious long term injuries going forward and hope the players start actually turning up to games. Then, IF all things align, with a bit of luck and a strong wind, we might salvage something out of the season.
Surely one thing everyone can all agree on is that things need to change in almost every area asap.
Comments
We're not creating anything and get overrun at the back - seems a recipe for disaster.
Take the point re Clare but is he any worse than Morgan? In my opinion Arter with Clare/Dobson should be a step up from Watson and Morgan. Hopefully it will eventually be Arter and Gilbey.
Re scoring think we are relying on Leko, Lee and Washington to chip in with quite. A few.
I don’t think anyone is saying one change will reverse our season, but it’s been clear all season that our central midfield isn’t good enough. Improving that will at least give us a chance to compete. Cheltenham would have struggled had we swapped CMs with them, any combination of Watson, Morgan, Clare and Dobson isn’t good enough. We might get away with one playing with a couple of better players.
It’s then not unbelievable to think we’d also improve if Souare is better than Gunter and we start Leko and Washington.
BUT repeating myself, Souare wasn't fit enough to start on Saturday AND (just as with Aneke and Inniss) his minutes need to be managed. Adkins didn't play Gunter at LB because he was a better option, he played him there because there was nobody else, which is a direct consequence of our transfer decisions this summer. Will Purrington be able to play a part next Saturday?
If Arter wasn't fit or ready enough to even be on our bench, there's no guarantee that he will be ready to start the next match
I was expecting a total overhaul of the squad but players like Watson Gunter Matthews and Morgan are still regularly starting for us.
As for our new signings Dobson and Clare don't look any better then what we already had.
DJ is a waste of space and Kirk looks lost.
Hoof ball to Stockley appears to be our main strategy and it's not working
I can see it getting worse before it gets better and I have already written this season off.
I really don't have much knowledge of players outside of the Charlton bubble and some of the top flight premier league teams so never know if a signing is good or not.
Have noticed that when we signed DJ loads were celebrating (and the same recently with Kirk) that it was a great signing and that he'd played well against us.
However can't say I've seen what the fuss is about with the former so far tbh. I do wonder whether some of the hype when we sign such players is based on genuine insight and knowledge of players or whether it's just a punt and a bit of bluster and that they also don't really have much insight.
Kirk, Lavelle, Lee, Arter, Leko and DJ have been hailed as great acquisitions and Stockley is apparently the best striker in the league according to some.
Whether this is based on anything more on optimism and hope (Leko and Arter aside) will be played out over the next 40 games but I do wonder whether much of it is Chartlon bias i.e. that they have signed for us which may inflate their true ability a bit beyond the reality and that they wouldnt be necessarily heralded as such quality players had they not and were playing elsewhere.
I assume it was seen by our overseas fans live and could be watched in the UK later ?
'Everything has gone up a notch' Nigel Adkins in an email I received from the Club on Saturday which previewed this match against Chelenham Town.
Am I to assume that losing 2-1 at home to Cheltenham Town is deemed to be an improvement?
How did the same players look against last season's top six?
my mate saw clare in the club shop before the game and he said he'd done his achilles - don't know how seriously?
I acknowledge Stockley wasn't at is best on Saturday but it must be extremely frustrating being double and in some cases tripled marked yet still have our defenders hitting it hopelessly towards you.
Appreciate with Arter/Gilbey it could work as it should but I'm not convinced.
Also NA's comment about us not supposed to play hoofball but we are either suggests to me the players are useless, coaching hasn't worked or the players aren't playing for nige.
A lot of work to be done but give the man some time so he can try implement the vision with the correct tools at his disposal.
He also said maybe when you're not playing well, you should have one winger and one midfielder playing wide. A bit like he used to do when he would Graham Stuart on the right sometimes. He said we looked too open.
He said Stockley had his worst half that he'd seen. Terrible touch. Etc.
Can't remember any more at the moment.
What is it people want to hear? No one's got a crystal ball and this is the reality of life in League 1 after being pillaged by the likes Southall etc.
If NA got the sack, who's gonna come in and make that instant positive impact we need? Surely the best course of action is hope NA shakes things up. Hope whoever is injured, recovers. Hope there's no serious long term injuries going forward and hope the players start actually turning up to games. Then, IF all things align, with a bit of luck and a strong wind, we might salvage something out of the season.
Surely one thing everyone can all agree on is that things need to change in almost every area asap.