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Post-Match Thread | Charlton Athletic v Cheltenham Town | 11/09/21

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    Croydon said:
    I love Jackson as much as most, but why would we entrust him with the side when he can't even organise our set pieces?
    I was thinking exactly the same, why just because he's a fans favourite would you want JJ to manage us ? If he was to fail  then we'd get people calling for Jason Euell  :D
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    Ferryman said:
    I felt like I was watching a pub team from the 1960's playing a team from the 21st century!

    Just lob it up to "Roy of the Rovers" Stockley and he'll beat the blighters and score some goals. 

    Incredible that any team of professional people can be so f**ing useless at their job!

    But the bloke behind me was saying that Cheltenham were a pub team from the start,  and continued that theme even when they were 2-0 up!


    If Cheltenham are a pub team, Christ knows what we are? 
    A cocktail bar team?
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    The next two weeks will be crucial. 
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    edited September 2021
    Belv said:
    Don’t want Jackson anywhere near the manager job.

    People wanted Bowyer out after results went downhill fast, under Adkins we’re even worse.

    The one constant is Jackson. Lovely bloke, always be a hero but no thanks.

    Interesting but you do realize that JJ doesn't pick the team?

    It won't be Jackson who decides to play 2 wingers and leave Stockley isolated on so many occasions. 

    It won't be JJ who decides to Play Gunter at LB.

    It wasn't JJ who decided to play Maatsen on the right wing.

    It wasn't Johnnie who picks Watson who can't run. 

    When ever JJ has been in charge we have won.

    When Bauer scored at Wembley, it was Jackson, who Cullen, Bielik, Williams, Taylor etc embraced.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say you are talking bollocks. 
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    th0rryy said:
    I just think Morgan and Watson can't play the kind of football that this pseudo-4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 weird-ass system wants of them. Morgan has large weaknesses of defensive positional play, pressing and tackling. Meanwhile, Watson has obvious lack of energy/pace and, quite honestly, doesn't care about results either way. Everything revolves around both of them providing passing options for our defenders and making runs/space for our wide players. When they don't do their job, Famewo/Inniss/<insert defender> go hoofball. Not enough running from our midfielders and they make us look infinitely worse.

    As I've already said, I'm not going to have as much bad to say about Kirk/DJ/Stockley when they all barely touched the ball in that first half. It's no coincidence that we look REALLY bad when we don't get them the ball. The system needs to fit the players we have and we have only looked OK vs a dire Crewe side that are likely to go down. Everyone else has run rings round us in midfield, and in the absence of our injured midfielders, a lot of players are looking poor in this system.

    NA used the post-match interview to spew a lot of jargon to justify what he was doing, which is dual-purposed. Not only is he trying to justify to us, the fans, he is doing the right thing, this is also a clear message to TS that players let him down in that first half, in particular. I would ditch the 2 defensive midfielders and go with something like this next game:

    McG
    Matthews - Famewo - Elerewe/Pearce - Souare
    DJ - Lee - Dobson - Kirk
    Stockley - Leko

    Watson can gtfo as far as I'm concerned. Morgan needs a step back. I think Lee and Dobson is the next best option until Arter and Gilbey come in.
    Lee isn't a central midfielder. We'd be sliced open even more with that formation, with Dobson the only defensive midfielder behind a front 5, none of which are very good defensively
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    Belv said:
    Don’t want Jackson anywhere near the manager job.

    People wanted Bowyer out after results went downhill fast, under Adkins we’re even worse.

    The one constant is Jackson. Lovely bloke, always be a hero but no thanks.

    Interesting but you do realize that JJ doesn't pick the team?

    It won't be Jackson who decides to play 2 wingers and leave Stockley isolated on so many occasions. 

    It won't be JJ who decides to Play Gunter at LB.

    It wasn't JJ who decided to play Maatsen on the right wing.

    It wasn't Johnnie who picks Watson who can't run. 

    When ever JJ has been in charge we have won.

    When Bauer scored at Wembley, it was Jackson, who Cullen, Bielik, Williams, Taylor etc embraced.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say you are talking bollocks. 
    We're playing Gunter at LB because we don't have anyone else, which is a recruitment failing

    Purrington has been injured for an eternity (6 or 7 weeks) and we wait until the last moment to sign a free agent LB who isn't able to start matches as they're having to manage his minutes.
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    edited September 2021
    Belv said:
    Don’t want Jackson anywhere near the manager job.

    People wanted Bowyer out after results went downhill fast, under Adkins we’re even worse.

    The one constant is Jackson. Lovely bloke, always be a hero but no thanks.

    Interesting but you do realize that JJ doesn't pick the team?

    It won't be Jackson who decides to play 2 wingers and leave Stockley isolated on so many occasions. 

    It won't be JJ who decides to Play Gunter at LB.

    It wasn't JJ who decided to play Maatsen on the right wing.

    It wasn't Johnnie who picks Watson who can't run. 

    When ever JJ has been in charge we have won.

    When Bauer scored at Wembley, it was Jackson, who Cullen, Bielik, Williams, Taylor etc embraced.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say you are talking bollocks. 
    We're playing Gunter at LB because we don't have anyone else, which is a recruitment failing

    Purrington has been injured for an eternity (6 or 7 weeks) and we wait until the last moment to sign a free agent LB who isn't able to start matches as they're having to manage his minutes.

    Belv said he wouldn't have Jackson as manager and my reply was about the difference between a manager and a number Two/coach.
    I know that but I'm pointing out why is any of this JJ faults ? When I was a manager I would take responsibility, for the tactics and how the team was set up. I would run things pass the coach and ask his opinion but I had a good idea how to get the best out of my limited ( Cup winners but mediocre in the league) set of players . That applies from Premier to the lowest level that the buck stops with manager or the guy who picks or sets up the team; Head coach or manager.

    The LB position was an emergency and playing Gunter there patently hasn't worked other than against a weak Crewe team.  In fact it might be why Kirk is looking so bad as he doesn't have a Harry Pickering type player to help him on the outside.
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    TELTEL
    edited September 2021
    .

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    DubaiCAFC said:
    For me over the last few years, we have played our best football when we play 3-5-2 we now have the players that can play that formation. And I would get Pearce in the team, we look like we are lacking leadership at the back. 
    Sorry, 352 as much as Im a fan of this formation requires two wing backs....we may have one untried lb that might fit that formation but we have no idea if he is any good yet. Neither Gunter or Matthews or even Purrington come to think of it are wing backs and never will be.

    with the full backs and centre halves we have on the books 442 is the best we can hope for....however I think Adkins will persist with his favoured 4231 or 4321 and we just don't have the personnel for this.
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    So for all you reprobates - I was I’m the posh seats today - here I am with 2 legends in the Boardroom - shit result - but the Wife and I had a brilliant day - rather pissed but content !!
    You need to be p***** wearing that suit.
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    J BLOCK said:
    Unfortunately, baring a miracle this season is over already. I back TS as he has spent money and the squad is very capable IMO.

    HOWEVER, signings like Dobson and Clare leave me scratching my head, we haven’t got the right set up in the management and backroom staff at the top, and it shows.

    All cleavage no tit this team. 
    I'd not say the season is over BUT I think the play-offs are the best we can look at.
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    Belv said:
    Don’t want Jackson anywhere near the manager job.

    People wanted Bowyer out after results went downhill fast, under Adkins we’re even worse.

    The one constant is Jackson. Lovely bloke, always be a hero but no thanks.
    Not saying Jackson would necessarily do a good job but it doesn’t work like.

    TS has been a constant, Covid has been a constant etc. You can link various things to both Bowyer and Adkins but as manager they choose the team, the tactics and influence the signings. The assistant will contribute but they’ll also have their own ideas that don’t get implemented as the manager does it their way.

    Look at the difference between Robinson and Bowyer. Originally Bowyer was the assistant. He played a different formation and higher tempo football which won us promotion.
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    DubaiCAFC said:
    The thing that gets me, is our style and tactics of football at the moment.. It is like the players and manager are doing two difference things.. They fully deserved the result, and the two CB were very impressive.. But talk about playing to there strengths! Stockley just got bullied and schooled by them.

    My biggest worry is, Adkins doesn't know how to set us up to play any different. No excuse of not being backed, we have spent more money now, then we have done in the last 4 seasons. 

    I am not sure it is the lack of player quality, but we are going from back to front way to quickly. I think Adkins has a max of 5 games to turn this around, or I think he will be out of the door, if not sooner.
    I would say exactly the opposite. Our build up play is painfully slow, with the ball being played square or backwards multiple times because of a lack of movement ahead of the player on the ball. It is then eventually played back to McGillivray or Famewo, who will then hit a long diagonal/channel ball to Stockley, who because he is operating alone up front, will be marked by both centre-backs.
    Much the same when we have corners, free-kicks or throw-ins. There is no urgency to retrieve the ball and take the set piece quickly, possibly catching our opponents out of position. This is not just an Adkins problem either as the same issues were there during the last 18 months under Bowyer. It looks like way too many players are fearful of making a mistake, so go for the safe option, hence sideways, backwards, then as far away from our goal as possible.
    The whole club seems to have had this cautious culture since about October 2019 when Championship results and injuries started to go against us. We need to up the tempo and take a few chances with the ball, especially at The Valley, where it'll really get the crowd going. We also need to make it a more hostile place for our opponents. How about ball boys hurrying to retrieve the ball when it's our throw/kick. How about players making sure they grab the ball first if we're awarded a foul (unlike yesterday when we allowed Cheltenham players to walk off with the ball). How about having spare ball placed around the pitch so we don't have to wait over 30 seconds for someone to retrieve it from an empty section of the Curbs stand. It's all too lackadaisical and friendly at the moment.
    Positivity and measured hostility is what we need, but Adkins can't deliver that alone as it needs to become part of the club's culture.
    How about we get in the ref’s ear about time wasting as well? It was the crowd that got the ref to speak the keeper, not the players.  
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    Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, things take a turn for the worse.
    I just wonder a what point does Tommy boy take action to stop this nonsense. I'd give this coaching staff 3 more games and if there is no marked improvement I'd get someone in who knows what a left back, center back, holding midfielder, a winger and a center forward is and what they are supposed to do during the game. May be we would at least get a draw against these top teams.
    Performances like Saturdays are not expectable we are  very predictable and easy to setup against.  

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    edited September 2021
    We don't know what sort of job JJ or Euell for that
    So going back to what I would do if I owned the club. Well my priority would be to find a Curbs or a Powell. These were managers who understood the club and knew when money had to be spent but also realised they had to be careful how they spent it. You find these managers by giving them a chance and they either take that chance or they don't. Both understood the club very well on their first day. Complicated structures may work for very big clubs but I can't see how they work for us. We have seen what works for us and Bowyer even demonstrated it when he first got the job. The trick is of course is to get that one appointment right and who is to say JJ or Euell would not be right. But if not, maybe Pearce is..........
    Eh? I enjoyed the post until that bit. 
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    TEL said:
    DubaiCAFC said:
    For me over the last few years, we have played our best football when we play 3-5-2 we now have the players that can play that formation. And I would get Pearce in the team, we look like we are lacking leadership at the back. 
    Sorry, 352 as much as Im a fan of this formation requires two wing backs....we may have one untried lb that might fit that formation but we have no idea if he is any good yet. Neither Gunter or Matthews or even Purrington come to think of it are wing backs and never will be.

    with the full backs and centre halves we have on the books 442 is the best we can hope for....however I think Adkins will persist with his favoured 4231 or 4321 and we just don't have the personnel for this.
    It's doesn't matter if its 442 or 433 or 4231.  If the 2 central midfielders aren't good enough to control the midfield changing the positions/descriptions of the other 4 is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

    We need, some how, to get a 3rd central midfielder in the team.  That might change when Arter and Gilbey are fit but no combination of two from Watson, Dobson, Morgan or Clare can do it.

    If you do it as a lopsided 442, like Curbs and Powell favoured, a 4321 or a 433 it doesn't really matter as it amounts to the same thing.  A lot of the other problems, hit and hope, Stockley being isolated, full backs pushing on can't and won't be solved until we get the ball, keep the ball and control the play from midfield.   

    We aren't good enough to have 4 attacking players in the team and I think the players know it, which is why they are so scared of the ball. 
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    edited September 2021
    Belv said:
    Don’t want Jackson anywhere near the manager job.

    People wanted Bowyer out after results went downhill fast, under Adkins we’re even worse.

    The one constant is Jackson. Lovely bloke, always be a hero but no thanks.

    Interesting but you do realize that JJ doesn't pick the team?

    It won't be Jackson who decides to play 2 wingers and leave Stockley isolated on so many occasions. 

    It won't be JJ who decides to Play Gunter at LB.

    It wasn't JJ who decided to play Maatsen on the right wing.

    It wasn't Johnnie who picks Watson who can't run. 

    When ever JJ has been in charge we have won.

    When Bauer scored at Wembley, it was Jackson, who Cullen, Bielik, Williams, Taylor etc embraced.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say you are talking bollocks. 
    When ever JJ has been in charge we have won lol

    In that case I think we should move for Kevin Nugent, his record is outstanding.

    Absolutely no idea what Jackson celebrating a 94th minute winner in a play-off final with 4 former players has to do with his managerial prowess.

    Blimey, talk about talking bollocks.
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    mendonca said:
    Without being too scientific, the main difference between this game and one last season:

    Aneke

    He would have come on as a sub once we'd pulled the first goal back, driven us forward and out-beefed their lumps and I would put my money on it being 2-2 or 3-2 as suddenly midfield runners have confidence to join attacks. Quite sad but true imo.
    Washington and Leko came on and made an impact, and we had other subs who could potentially do that.

    Last season we also had a stronger central midfield with JFC and Gilbey ahead of Pratley or Watson. Get that right along with the whole team work harder to move and press, and show more bravery with the ball and we won’t be chasing a game like that.
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    mendonca said:
    Without being too scientific, the main difference between this game and one last season:

    Aneke

    He would have come on as a sub once we'd pulled the first goal back, driven us forward and out-beefed their lumps and I would put my money on it being 2-2 or 3-2 as suddenly midfield runners have confidence to join attacks. Quite sad but true imo.
    The trouble with Aneke is he chose to fuck off.
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    Southbank said:
    Any other oldie reminded of big Dave Shipperly by the the awkward looking Lavelle?
    Phil Chappell
    I said exactly the same thing when watching Lavelle. He looks like a cross between Chapple & Pearce!
    Funnily enough, I likened Innis to "a poor man's Phil chapple" a couple of games back!!!
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    I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
    DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
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    Clarky said:
    mendonca said:
    Without being too scientific, the main difference between this game and one last season:

    Aneke

    He would have come on as a sub once we'd pulled the first goal back, driven us forward and out-beefed their lumps and I would put my money on it being 2-2 or 3-2 as suddenly midfield runners have confidence to join attacks. Quite sad but true imo.
    The trouble with Aneke is he chose to fuck off.
    The question I have in relation to that was how hard we tried to keep him. I don't know but it was all very hush hush and then he went. Whether we could have done more or not, he was a key loss not just in terms of the goals we lost but the direction of the club.

    People will decry the strength of the squad last season, but we had a basis for a top two push when we ended it. Sure, we lost a couple of key players to illness/ injury and another left but we were playing catch up from that point. It isn't impossible that we won't catch up, but we have certainly made it a lot harder for ourselves.

    And I think what Masicat has said makes some sense, so maybe we haven't got that all pulling together vibe that we had under Curbs and Powell. Adkins needs a bit of time to sort it out but he needs to sort it out. I am not interested in the bollocks he talks to fans, and that isn't a criticism because all I am interested in is what I see on the pitch.
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    Croydon said:
    I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
    DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
    It has p***ed me off how much stick our full backs got given how little cover DJ and Kirk gave. It was pretty obvious early on this was happening and Cheltenham were free to get crosses in with little pressure.

    I do wonder what our tactics are?
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    edited September 2021
    Croydon said:
    I was pretty pissed off on saturday(like the rest of you).But the worst thing to me was,the total lack of effort from Kirk and DJ in helping out our full backs,time after time on both sides,they were esposed to a wave of attackers.Neither full back had the best of games but surely a helping hand would not have gone amiss.In contrast,Leeds v Liverpool,Game won,Leeds 10 men,Mo Salah,back in his own half helping out his colleagues,if the top players are not afraid to get their hands dirty,why not ours.
    DJ is a dud. 3 good runs against MK Dons, but has offered very little else since he's been here.
    It has p***ed me off how much stick our full backs got given how little cover DJ and Kirk gave. It was pretty obvious early on this was happening and Cheltenham were free to get crosses in with little pressure.

    I do wonder what our tactics are?

     Ahhh, tactics, now that's an idea, wonder if Nige has thought of that one!! B)
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    Do think Morgan should be dropped and Sean Clare given a run out. So much more athletic and will actually stick a foot in! Watson was the one pushing up and hassling when he should have been sitting!

    No one can tell me Morgan deserves a place in the team. He offers zero. If he doesnt improve quickly then he needs to go permanently otherwise he is just a passenger. 

    Stockleys worst game in a Charlton shirt but bad games will happen. He needs support though in the form of a strike partner, Leko was fantastic. 

    Matthews cant see a pass in front of him and thats a worry. 

    Overall, I honestly think Cheltenham were pretty pants aswell and a dog shit performance from us made them look like world beaters. 

    If NA does go then I think JJ will get it but if im honest, we just need to the basics well again. 
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