We have a part to play, as this thread shows. We are not happy putting up with it. When the public insist on dealing with this issue, it is more likely to be dealt with.
Ive already used Italian fans as an example but let me explain. My wife is from an Italian family, they certainly seem to have a particular way of raising their children, and in this country it’s gone a bit weird; she is also a teacher and some of the stories I hear about parents conduct leaves me shaking my head. It seems ok in this country now for 8 year old jimmy to call some a fucking wanker or punch another child because they’re ‘learning to stick up for themselves’! My wife gave the example with her mum’s family, the Italian side, if they did something wrong, and she meant something really minor, she would get crucified (bad pun) and grandma would be straight on the phone and then be round in person to do the same, followed by all the other grandparents; then it would be all the Aunts and uncles! Watching their fans celebrate it didnt look like a single one of them wanted to kick off for whatever reason, Ok they won but it would have been the same either way. Is it just lazy parenting? Dad just wants to be in the pub/so doesn’t stop to think about the example he’s setting? Big subject I know…
Why in this country do we have this ridiculous ’Bro’ culture?
Erm, this the same Italian culture that chants money noises at Lukaku and who’s main tv broadcaster taunted him with bananas. I must have mistaken all those lovely Napoli and Roma fans that stab people as law abiding citizens!
Every country has dickheads.
Ok so have I used a bad example and I’m not saying England bad Italy good, but I’ve never once felt unsafe when over there and that includes the Hotel in Rome where we had to step over a dead body outside!
Why does it seem we have more dickheads?
Probably because you notice them more as you feel they represent the same country as you and therefore it’s an embarrassment. We have pissed up dickheads of course but when it comes to football violence we aren’t even close to some other places.
Indeed. Have you ever seen that video from I think South America where the ref is chased then beheaded! I agree it’s alcohol, it’s a problem that the government doesn’t seem to want to do anything about…wonder why… I know I made the sweeping statement before that pubs are full of twats but I stand by the sentiment, seems to be a lot of functioning alcoholics normalising it.
Ive already used Italian fans as an example but let me explain. My wife is from an Italian family, they certainly seem to have a particular way of raising their children, and in this country it’s gone a bit weird; she is also a teacher and some of the stories I hear about parents conduct leaves me shaking my head. It seems ok in this country now for 8 year old jimmy to call some a fucking wanker or punch another child because they’re ‘learning to stick up for themselves’! My wife gave the example with her mum’s family, the Italian side, if they did something wrong, and she meant something really minor, she would get crucified (bad pun) and grandma would be straight on the phone and then be round in person to do the same, followed by all the other grandparents; then it would be all the Aunts and uncles! Watching their fans celebrate it didnt look like a single one of them wanted to kick off for whatever reason, Ok they won but it would have been the same either way. Is it just lazy parenting? Dad just wants to be in the pub/so doesn’t stop to think about the example he’s setting? Big subject I know…
Why in this country do we have this ridiculous ’Bro’ culture?
Erm, this the same Italian culture that chants money noises at Lukaku and who’s main tv broadcaster taunted him with bananas. I must have mistaken all those lovely Napoli and Roma fans that stab people as law abiding citizens!
Every country has dickheads.
Ok so have I used a bad example and I’m not saying England bad Italy good, but I’ve never once felt unsafe when over there and that includes the Hotel in Rome where we had to step over a dead body outside!
Why does it seem we have more dickheads?
Probably because you notice them more as you feel they represent the same country as you and therefore it’s an embarrassment. We have pissed up dickheads of course but when it comes to football violence we aren’t even close to some other places.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I do feel so embarrassed by the sight of these twats in the classic ‘arms wide’ pose, acting like dicks and thinking that they are somehow the embodiment of our national pride. The fact that we tend to see the best of other countries doesn’t help with the comparison. We once had to leg it from a pub in Denmark because the locals didn’t like having foreigners in there.
There is something wrong with our culture though and I do think there’s a historical hangover not helped by the attitude to booze. The obsession the the First World War is genuinely weird. Yes, study it and respect the fallen, but it has turned into a fetish now (exhibit A - Battle of the Somme edition Adidas Campus).
Its pretty simple really, lots of working class English people from right across the country like drinking heavily and fighting, especially fighting foreigners.
I have to be honest and say with no pride whatsoever that in my younger days I behaved a bit yobbishly when drunk. Not often but on one or two occasions. I saw it as a bit of an adventure at the time. People get egged on to do more extreme things by their mates. I do think the solution is around punishment.
I think it's more of a cultural thing, so will take a lot to change it. Strange how I manage to travel the world, have a few drinks and then not shove a flare up my aris, and yet other can't manage that. Having a degree of respect for others perhaps?
I have to be honest and say with no pride whatsoever that in my younger days I behaved a bit yobbishly when drunk. Not often but on one or two occasions. I saw it as a bit of an adventure at the time. People get egged on to do more extreme things by their mates. I do think the solution is around punishment.
I assume you grew out of it pretty quickly - some of these arseholes never do.
English people, SOME English people, have been getting drunk and acting up for hundreds of years. We're famous for it.
Wellington called his army the "scum of the earth". European mothers threatened their misbehaving children that they would fetch an English soldier to sort them out if they didn't behave so bad was the behaviour of some of that "thin red line of heroes".
SOME English people get drunk and act up every weekend in towns and cities up and down the country.
And there are even people in other countries who aren't English who get pissed and act up.
Football just gives them a focus for their getting pissed and acting up and means the cameras are there.
It's nothing to do with discipline in schools, bringing back the birch, PC/Woke, the decline of empire, Brexit, Covid19, video games or any other popular excuse.
Hooligans (the original 1890s ones), razor gangs, teddy boys, mods and rockers, skinheads, bootboys, casuals, there is a long list of delinquent youth groups who's problems were caused by too much cinema or TV or stopping conscription or the cane or whatever the supposed demons were then.
There's just a minority, and it is a minority, of people who like getting pissed and acting up. Is there a problem with the way the English (and the British) view and deal with alcohol? Yes, there is IMHO but it's nothing to do with football or some national decline in standards. We've been piss head idiots (some of us) for centuries.
I did and it wasn't associated with football. It was lads daring each other and when drunk you would do anything you are dared to do. It is imaturity and a bit pathetic and is generally cured by responsibility. Seeing older men do it and indeed football hooligans is about as pathetic as you can get.
Ive already used Italian fans as an example but let me explain. My wife is from an Italian family, they certainly seem to have a particular way of raising their children, and in this country it’s gone a bit weird; she is also a teacher and some of the stories I hear about parents conduct leaves me shaking my head. It seems ok in this country now for 8 year old jimmy to call some a fucking wanker or punch another child because they’re ‘learning to stick up for themselves’! My wife gave the example with her mum’s family, the Italian side, if they did something wrong, and she meant something really minor, she would get crucified (bad pun) and grandma would be straight on the phone and then be round in person to do the same, followed by all the other grandparents; then it would be all the Aunts and uncles! Watching their fans celebrate it didnt look like a single one of them wanted to kick off for whatever reason, Ok they won but it would have been the same either way. Is it just lazy parenting? Dad just wants to be in the pub/so doesn’t stop to think about the example he’s setting? Big subject I know…
Why in this country do we have this ridiculous ’Bro’ culture?
Erm, this the same Italian culture that chants money noises at Lukaku and who’s main tv broadcaster taunted him with bananas. I must have mistaken all those lovely Napoli and Roma fans that stab people as law abiding citizens!
Every country has dickheads.
I think what's happened is it turns out what we saw as Italian Ultras were actually a parade of grandparents, aunts and uncles coming round to scold young family members for not taking the bins out. Easy mistake to make to be fair.
Ive already used Italian fans as an example but let me explain. My wife is from an Italian family, they certainly seem to have a particular way of raising their children, and in this country it’s gone a bit weird; she is also a teacher and some of the stories I hear about parents conduct leaves me shaking my head. It seems ok in this country now for 8 year old jimmy to call some a fucking wanker or punch another child because they’re ‘learning to stick up for themselves’! My wife gave the example with her mum’s family, the Italian side, if they did something wrong, and she meant something really minor, she would get crucified (bad pun) and grandma would be straight on the phone and then be round in person to do the same, followed by all the other grandparents; then it would be all the Aunts and uncles! Watching their fans celebrate it didnt look like a single one of them wanted to kick off for whatever reason, Ok they won but it would have been the same either way. Is it just lazy parenting? Dad just wants to be in the pub/so doesn’t stop to think about the example he’s setting? Big subject I know…
Why in this country do we have this ridiculous ’Bro’ culture?
Erm, this the same Italian culture that chants money noises at Lukaku and who’s main tv broadcaster taunted him with bananas. I must have mistaken all those lovely Napoli and Roma fans that stab people as law abiding citizens!
Every country has dickheads.
I think what's happened is it turns out what we saw as Italian Ultras were actually a parade of grandparents, aunts and uncles coming round to scold young family members for not taking the bins out. Easy mistake to make to be fair.
Didn't Roma fans attack a Liverpool fan fairly recently and he died after being in a coma? Idiots everywhere. From what I am reading there seemed to be a lack of police presence not just at Wembley but all over London
English people, SOME English people, have been getting drunk and acting up for hundreds of years. We're famous for it.
Wellington called his army the "scum of the earth". European mothers threatened their misbehaving children that they would fetch an English soldier to sort them out if they didn't behave so bad was the behaviour of some of that "thin red line of heroes".
SOME English people get drunk and act up every weekend in towns and cities up and down the country.
And there are even people in other countries who aren't English who get pissed and act up.
Football just gives them a focus for their getting pissed and acting up and means the cameras are there.
It's nothing to do with discipline in schools, bringing back the birch, PC/Woke, the decline of empire, Brexit, Covid19, video games or any other popular excuse.
Hooligans (the original 1890s ones), razor gangs, teddy boys, mods and rockers, skinheads, bootboys, casuals, there is a long list of delinquent youth groups who's problems were caused by too much cinema or TV or stopping conscription or the cane or whatever the supposed demons were then.
There's just a minority, and it is a minority, of people who like getting pissed and acting up. Is there a problem with the way the English (and the British) view and deal with alcohol? Yes, there is IMHO but it's nothing to do with football or some national decline in standards. We've been piss head idiots (some of us) for centuries.
English people, SOME English people, have been getting drunk and acting up for hundreds of years. We're famous for it.
Wellington called his army the "scum of the earth". European mothers threatened their misbehaving children that they would fetch an English soldier to sort them out if they didn't behave so bad was the behaviour of some of that "thin red line of heroes".
SOME English people get drunk and act up every weekend in towns and cities up and down the country.
And there are even people in other countries who aren't English who get pissed and act up.
Football just gives them a focus for their getting pissed and acting up and means the cameras are there.
It's nothing to do with discipline in schools, bringing back the birch, PC/Woke, the decline of empire, Brexit, Covid19, video games or any other popular excuse.
Hooligans (the original 1890s ones), razor gangs, teddy boys, mods and rockers, skinheads, bootboys, casuals, there is a long list of delinquent youth groups who's problems were caused by too much cinema or TV or stopping conscription or the cane or whatever the supposed demons were then.
There's just a minority, and it is a minority, of people who like getting pissed and acting up. Is there a problem with the way the English (and the British) view and deal with alcohol? Yes, there is IMHO but it's nothing to do with football or some national decline in standards. We've been piss head idiots (some of us) for centuries.
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
What are your thoughts on what should be done? Alcohol is a legal depressant. It is enjoyed responsibly by 99% of people that consume it. So it will never be prohibited. You could make it more expensive through taxation, but that would penalise the law abiding majority who enjoy it (and it has limited impact on those who its intended to affect, those with a dependency). You could educate about the impact of alcohol - that's pretty much an ongoing thing.
The reality is, in England and around the world, people get drunk and act stupidly. It was ever thus. The answer is ultimately in personal responsibility and a consideration of others unless you want o live in a police state or have a para military police force that goes in first and asks questions later.
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
Lots of reasons
There's no votes in restricting people's "freedom"
There are huge tax revenues involved and a massive pub and hospitality industry that employs millions. Many entertainment venues for concerts or sport makes huge profits from drink.
But the real issue is we, me included, tolerate the drunks. We laugh about people getting pissed and embarrassing themselves cos a lot of us have been there ourselves. "Where's the harm? We say, we've all been there" and a lot of us have.
We see getting pissed and vomiting as a rite of passage, something to show we're grown up. We expect our kids to get pissed with their mates and would be worried if they didn't.
We forgive or overlook the excesses of drunks like Gazza, Oliver Reed or George Best because they are likable drunks, they aren't viewed like junkies but they are addicts.
I'm not moralising here. I drink and I enjoy it but as a culture I think it's clear we have an issue with how we drink.
Can it change? Yes, drink driving still happens but is no longer socially acceptable.
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
What are your thoughts on what should be done? Alcohol is a legal depressant. It is enjoyed responsibly by 99% of people that consume it. So it will never be prohibited. You could make it more expensive through taxation, but that would penalise the law abiding majority who enjoy it (and it has limited impact on those who its intended to affect, those with a dependency). You could educate about the impact of alcohol - that's pretty much an ongoing thing.
The reality is, in England and around the world, people get drunk and act stupidly. It was ever thus. The answer is ultimately in personal responsibility and a consideration of others unless you want o live in a police state or have a para military police force that goes in first and asks questions later.
No one is asking for it to be banned. You say people round the world do it, but what city centres have you been to abroad that need to be policed like ours every weekend? Only other places that come close, are the tourist destinations we ruin every summer.
I must be alone or in the minority but I was expecting dozens of whatsapp videos of town centres being demolished and faecal matter being hurled at branches of Bella Italia
The rushing of the gates at Wembley was shitty scouse behaviour and those involved are scumbags of the highest order
The usual mayhem in Trafalgar Square happens pretty frequently and is nothing to be proud of but apart from those flashpoints I haven't seen any footage of anything else bad. Which is odd because everyone has a mobile phone at any gathering seemingly constantly videoing in the hope of their clip making it viral
Booing of national anthems, I actually don't care about. It happens to us wherever we play and I dont think we can be too precious about it for or against us. Whenever I've seen an English crowd vigorously boo someone else's anthem all it does is rev the opposition right up and I think it does for us too
I would like to know how firework-in-arse man is doing today and how he sees his immediate future employment prospects. Maybe he is going to go fulltime as a rectal pyrotechnician or is he looking to slip back into the abyss no he has had his fifteen minutes of fame and notoriety
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
What are your thoughts on what should be done? Alcohol is a legal depressant. It is enjoyed responsibly by 99% of people that consume it. So it will never be prohibited. You could make it more expensive through taxation, but that would penalise the law abiding majority who enjoy it (and it has limited impact on those who its intended to affect, those with a dependency). You could educate about the impact of alcohol - that's pretty much an ongoing thing.
The reality is, in England and around the world, people get drunk and act stupidly. It was ever thus. The answer is ultimately in personal responsibility and a consideration of others unless you want o live in a police state or have a para military police force that goes in first and asks questions later.
No one is asking for it to be banned. You say people round the world do it, but what city centres have you been to abroad that need to be policed like ours every weekend? Only other places that come close, are the tourist destinations we ruin every summer.
I didn't realise our cities were policed every weekend because of people misbehaving through drink.
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
What are your thoughts on what should be done? Alcohol is a legal depressant. It is enjoyed responsibly by 99% of people that consume it. So it will never be prohibited. You could make it more expensive through taxation, but that would penalise the law abiding majority who enjoy it (and it has limited impact on those who its intended to affect, those with a dependency). You could educate about the impact of alcohol - that's pretty much an ongoing thing.
The reality is, in England and around the world, people get drunk and act stupidly. It was ever thus. The answer is ultimately in personal responsibility and a consideration of others unless you want o live in a police state or have a para military police force that goes in first and asks questions later.
No one is asking for it to be banned. You say people round the world do it, but what city centres have you been to abroad that need to be policed like ours every weekend? Only other places that come close, are the tourist destinations we ruin every summer.
I didn't realise our cities were policed every weekend because of people misbehaving through drink.
Meat wagons are parked outside kebab shops because of people fighting due to hunger? You know exactly what I meant.
Henry's post is bang on. This country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Absolutely, so why isn’t something being done about it?
Lots of reasons
There's no votes in restricting people's "freedom"
There are huge tax revenues involved and a massive pub and hospitality industry that employs millions. Many entertainment venues for concerts or sport makes huge profits from drink.
But the real issue is we, me included, tolerate the drunks. We laugh about people getting pissed and embarrassing themselves cos a lot of us have been there ourselves. "Where's the harm? We say, we've all been there" and a lot of us have.
We see getting pissed and vomiting as a rite of passage, something to show we're grown up. We expect our kids to get pissed with their mates and would be worried if they didn't.
We forgive or overlook the excesses of drunks like Gazza, Oliver Reed or George Best because they are likable drunks, they aren't viewed like junkies but they are addicts.
I'm not moralising here. I drink and I enjoy it but as a culture I think it's clear we have an issue with how we drink.
Can it change? Yes, drink driving still happens but is no longer socially acceptable.
I've noticed the gen z's actually tend to have a much healthier view on alcohol, that's not to say they don't get pissed off their head, but i know of quite a few young people (16-21) who don't drink and say its not that big a deal for people their age. Whilst for me, a millenial, we were always in parks from 16 and going to wetherspoons at 18 to get the cheapest booze we could.
The tube yesterday was a nightmare - big groups of lads singing "german bombers" song, "stick your calzone..." etc songs as well.
In the words of the arctic monkeys "just cos he's had a coupla cans, he thinks its alright to act like a dickhead..." is the general acceptance from people my age and older.
Comments
I agree it’s alcohol, it’s a problem that the government doesn’t seem to want to do anything about…wonder why…
I know I made the sweeping statement before that pubs are full of twats but I stand by the sentiment, seems to be a lot of functioning alcoholics normalising it.
I would rather have pissed on a mountain of shit in portaloo on day five of the Glastonbury festival.
I'm just glad i didn't need a pooh, you needed wading boots to get through the vomit and bits of shit that had accumulated in the cubicals.
What are your thoughts on what should be done? Alcohol is a legal depressant. It is enjoyed responsibly by 99% of people that consume it. So it will never be prohibited. You could make it more expensive through taxation, but that would penalise the law abiding majority who enjoy it (and it has limited impact on those who its intended to affect, those with a dependency). You could educate about the impact of alcohol - that's pretty much an ongoing thing.
The reality is, in England and around the world, people get drunk and act stupidly. It was ever thus. The answer is ultimately in personal responsibility and a consideration of others unless you want o live in a police state or have a para military police force that goes in first and asks questions later.
There's no votes in restricting people's "freedom"
There are huge tax revenues involved and a massive pub and hospitality industry that employs millions. Many entertainment venues for concerts or sport makes huge profits from drink.
But the real issue is we, me included, tolerate the drunks. We laugh about people getting pissed and embarrassing themselves cos a lot of us have been there ourselves. "Where's the harm? We say, we've all been there" and a lot of us have.
We see getting pissed and vomiting as a rite of passage, something to show we're grown up. We expect our kids to get pissed with their mates and would be worried if they didn't.
We forgive or overlook the excesses of drunks like Gazza, Oliver Reed or George Best because they are likable drunks, they aren't viewed like junkies but they are addicts.
I'm not moralising here. I drink and I enjoy it but as a culture I think it's clear we have an issue with how we drink.
Can it change? Yes, drink driving still happens but is no longer socially acceptable.
The rushing of the gates at Wembley was shitty scouse behaviour and those involved are scumbags of the highest order
The usual mayhem in Trafalgar Square happens pretty frequently and is nothing to be proud of but apart from those flashpoints I haven't seen any footage of anything else bad. Which is odd because everyone has a mobile phone at any gathering seemingly constantly videoing in the hope of their clip making it viral
Booing of national anthems, I actually don't care about. It happens to us wherever we play and I dont think we can be too precious about it for or against us. Whenever I've seen an English crowd vigorously boo someone else's anthem all it does is rev the opposition right up and I think it does for us too
I would like to know how firework-in-arse man is doing today and how he sees his immediate future employment prospects. Maybe he is going to go fulltime as a rectal pyrotechnician or is he looking to slip back into the abyss no he has had his fifteen minutes of fame and notoriety
The tube yesterday was a nightmare - big groups of lads singing "german bombers" song, "stick your calzone..." etc songs as well.
In the words of the arctic monkeys "just cos he's had a coupla cans, he thinks its alright to act like a dickhead..." is the general acceptance from people my age and older.