State of 'fans' during International tournaments

Stu_of_Kunming

Ormiston_Addick said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

It’s been so sad reading about what happened surrounding the final and just shows how toxic some people can be.

On the flip side I was so happy with how my fellow Englishman and opposing Italians behaved in Shanghai, I went to the bar that had 1,800 people in in, probably 70% English, 30% Italian (with some Chinese supporting either side) and whilst there was loss of good natured banter there was never a hint of trouble. Anyone coming from the designated Italian area to the toilets had to walk through the massive crowd of mostly drunk English fans (3am kick off, you can imagine when many started drinking) and there was literally zero aggression shown at any point. 

To be fair, only an absolute moron would cause any public trouble in China, especially a huge city like Shanghai.

For those that have not had the good fortune to go to China, worth knowing that there are huge “State Security” offices all over town and they can rustle up thousands of heavily armed Police at a moments notice.

You do NOT want to get put in a Chinese prison.

You’d be very, very surprised, I know Kunming is out in the sticks but things used to kick off most weekends in the old nightclub area, before the government had the entire area bulldozed. 

These were the same places that had ‘magic straws’ in their menus, a massive pile of ket. 

Covered End

palarsehater said:

Wembley seems to be an absolute Petri dish for covid spreading I’ve done a lateral flow test every day since last Sunday and nothing yet 

I thought you only caught Covid quite recently?
If I'm right, you're very unlikely to catch it twice within a couple of months.

stoneroses19

Covered End said:

palarsehater said:

Wembley seems to be an absolute Petri dish for covid spreading I’ve done a lateral flow test every day since last Sunday and nothing yet 

I thought you only caught Covid quite recently?
If I'm right, you're very unlikely to catch it twice within a couple of months.

I think you’re right. I was checking the NHS app earlier to see if my pass had arrived after getting second vaccine, and there was a section that said you can have a natural immunity covid pass that lasts 180 days (I think) if you tested positive beforehand. 

palarsehater

Covered End said:

palarsehater said:

Wembley seems to be an absolute Petri dish for covid spreading I’ve done a lateral flow test every day since last Sunday and nothing yet 

I thought you only caught Covid quite recently?
If I'm right, you're very unlikely to catch it twice within a couple of months.

Yep had it in End of feb start of March and have 1 jab so far my covid pass runs out on 11th august which is immunity from having it back in feb. 

MuttleyCAFC

stoneroses19 said:

Covered End said:

palarsehater said:

Wembley seems to be an absolute Petri dish for covid spreading I’ve done a lateral flow test every day since last Sunday and nothing yet 

I thought you only caught Covid quite recently?
If I'm right, you're very unlikely to catch it twice within a couple of months.

I think you’re right. I was checking the NHS app earlier to see if my pass had arrived after getting second vaccine, and there was a section that said you can have a natural immunity covid pass that lasts 180 days (I think) if you tested positive beforehand. 

Isn't it that this varies from person to person. I know my brother had Covid and was tested for and had the antibodies but Sound As has said on here that he was tested after having it bad and he didn't. Not a scientific study but interesting.

A bit like Idris Elba saying at the very beginning of the pandemic that he had tested positive but felt fine. This was at the time when asymptomatic spread was not fully understood and not factored in. I appreciate, it couldn't have been known that somebody testing positive could spread it if they felt fine, but it must have been a strong possibility. 

Things I can't still quite work out/understand.

Friend Or Defoe

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Ormiston_Addick said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

It’s been so sad reading about what happened surrounding the final and just shows how toxic some people can be.

On the flip side I was so happy with how my fellow Englishman and opposing Italians behaved in Shanghai, I went to the bar that had 1,800 people in in, probably 70% English, 30% Italian (with some Chinese supporting either side) and whilst there was loss of good natured banter there was never a hint of trouble. Anyone coming from the designated Italian area to the toilets had to walk through the massive crowd of mostly drunk English fans (3am kick off, you can imagine when many started drinking) and there was literally zero aggression shown at any point. 

To be fair, only an absolute moron would cause any public trouble in China, especially a huge city like Shanghai.

For those that have not had the good fortune to go to China, worth knowing that there are huge “State Security” offices all over town and they can rustle up thousands of heavily armed Police at a moments notice.

You do NOT want to get put in a Chinese prison.

You’d be very, very surprised, I know Kunming is out in the sticks but things used to kick off most weekends in the old nightclub area, before the government had the entire area bulldozed. 

These were the same places that had ‘magic straws’ in their menus, a massive pile of ket. 

That's one way to solve a problem!

CAFCTrev

New doc on Netflix covering the disaster that was the disorder at Wembley during the Euro 2021 final

https://www.netflix.com/title/81665042

Pretty good doc, made me even angrier seeing in detail the behaviour of the "fans" that turned up to this game with no tickets. 

se9addick

CAFCTrev said:

New doc on Netflix covering the disaster that was the disorder at Wembley during the Euro 2021 final

https://www.netflix.com/title/81665042

Pretty good doc, made me even angrier seeing in detail the behaviour of the "fans" that turned up to this game with no tickets. 

It was a really good doc.

Watching it I cannot believe that no-one was killed, I knew it was chaos there but it was worse than I realised.

Friend Or Defoe

Thanks CAFCTrev, that was a great documentary. The state of the man bag wearers who film themselves singing Neil Diamond, urgh!

CAFCTrev

se9addick said:

CAFCTrev said:

New doc on Netflix covering the disaster that was the disorder at Wembley during the Euro 2021 final

https://www.netflix.com/title/81665042

Pretty good doc, made me even angrier seeing in detail the behaviour of the "fans" that turned up to this game with no tickets. 

It was a really good doc.

Watching it I cannot believe that no-one was killed, I knew it was chaos there but it was worse than I realised.

I think locking down the turnstiles to stop more people getting in is what prevented any deaths. Imagine if that mass of people were able to get into the stadium. 

JaShea99

CAFCTrev said:

New doc on Netflix covering the disaster that was the disorder at Wembley during the Euro 2021 final

https://www.netflix.com/title/81665042

Pretty good doc, made me even angrier seeing in detail the behaviour of the "fans" that turned up to this game with no tickets. 

Close relative of mine managed to watch this on a dodgy box, he is 19, a lovely hardworking lad, he exhausted every avenue to sign up for Netflix with a budget of £5 - when I got the news he was watching the doc - I was delighted for him.

oohaahmortimer

Lucky that covid restrictions had meant there were 23k of empty seats that could be used by those who ‘jibbed’ in 

Ducktapeshoerepairs

You would have thought any other stadium in the world would have had an exclusion zone, ticket checks etc before people even got to Wembley way. The police/security massively messed up here. It was common knowledge that there was jibbing in going in at previous games like Germany. No one taking responsibility in this documentary. They just want to blame ticketless fans (yes they were in the wrong 100%), but they should never have even been allowed near the stadium. Then a massive focus on racism, again 100% out of order, but irrelevant in the focus of this doc. Then they brought up the women’s team winning, again irrelevant. Terrible piece of tv. 

Friend Or Defoe

There was trouble in central London during the tournament so the police focus was there. They admitted to messing up. Probably assumed people would want to celebrate in pubs then drink cans on the pavement for 8 hours.

Off_it

The documentary was alright, but no more than that.

Who was to blame for the near disaster? Sure, thousands of people turned up without tickets but surely that was expected? And they clearly weren't all there to try and blag/force their way in, most of them were there to soak up some "atmosphere". But it all got out of hand and some people got caught up in the moment.

Seems to me that a state of lawlessness was allowed to build up which emboldened people, that and the booze/Charlie. It just got crazier and crazier and nobody was telling them or making them stop, so if that's been going on for hours then why not rush the gate? Who didnt anticipate that and allowed it to happen?

If say 100 of us on here randomly met up somewhere, all canned and coked up, climbing lampposts, getting on top of buses, pissing everywhere, throwing bottles about, etc, how long before the Old Bill turned up and tried to put a lid on it? But they did nothing, and "high jinx" then got out of hand because it was unchecked. Whoever decided in advance not to deploy police in force until 3pm and then compound it by reacting too slowly to the escalating events at Wembley on the day should never be allowed to manage a major public event again. But who was that? What was their view? Why did they do what they did? What were the lessons learned? The doc said nothing on this.

What I hadn't realised is that after the game had started there were still thousands outside being held back by a thin line of OB. The Wembley guy saying that he was scared about having to open the exit gates at the end of the match and an England defeat being the best option was quite telling. But then the good old British weather stepped in to save the day and it started raining, which effectively dispersed the crowd and quite literally dampened things down.

Overall it gave a good insight into some of the events of the day, which for me brought back memories of crushing disappointment and also embarrassment that we, as a nation, just dont seem to be able to behave properly when we get a little bit excited.

RaplhMilne

Same scenario as the 2011 riots across London. Police stood back and largely watched and filmed everything. Then in months afterwards charged thousands with offences. 

Had they gone in hard when it started and made immediate arrests, with dogs and batons out, it would never have got to the level it did. 

Those on the periphery of these events, stand and watch. When it becomes evident, that the Police and Stewards are not doing anything, or enough to stop the rule breakers, the periphery feel safe to join in.