Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season the team needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.
If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.
And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news
Nice attempt at a recovery. The Plymouth thing sunk you though 😀
I would love to see an in depth documentary on a clubs recruitment process. We’ve all got this image of Football Manager which we know isn’t true, but we are also told of a team of people working round the clock. Fair enough, but what they doing? Who they calling? What they saying? It can’t be like Wolf of bloody Wall Street.
On the basis that we still need to sign 7 players and expect the majority of those to happen on deadline day, I think the club should do a Charlton TV 'deadline day special' broadcast.
I genuinely think that fans would pay £5-£10 to watch an afternoon / eve show where...
1. Scotty Minto holds live interviews with new signings 2. Gallen / Roddy give us updates on how they are getting on 3. Our physios discuss how they manage medicals on deadline day 4. Youngsters leaving the club on loan disuss their loan opportunities 5. We see new players integrated into Nigel / Johnnies training session & hear what NA & JJ expect our acquisitions to bring to the team 6. Chris Parkes talks about his role in registering players and avoiding another Hemed situation. 7. Plus we see highlights of the Charlton v Crawley Papa Johns tie happening on the same day.
A package like the above has the potential to make great viewing and see decent Charlton TV subscription sales for the club. With Minto on board we have a presenter good enough to deliver it.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.
If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.
And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news
You’re happy to take it as it being the situation we’re in. I’m not, I’d question why we’re in that situation.
Big stretch to say Ive been banging on for months that we shouldn’t sign experienced championship players because I didn’t want us to resign matthews and Jordan cousins. I guess some people are content with mediocracy.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
To you it doesn’t.
To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to be better this year. 3 players.
This is a team that hasn’t replaced their top goal scorer chucks as well btw.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
To you it doesn’t. To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to better this year. 3 players.
But we are talking about why we are still relying on loans. The reason for that is because we've put a large amount of expenditure into signing up new players. Stockley is a new player, whether you want to accept that or not, and he came with a fee. The four out of contract players also had to be signed up, along with Famewo, Dobson, Mac and Clare. The point of what we're discussing is why we still need to get the loans, and all of these fees and new salaries are part of the budget for the year. That means that we can make some progress towards rebuilding but we will likely be unable to get an entirely new squad on permanents. That takes time and a lot of money and so we'll likely need to settle for some short term fills, and then we'll plug those gaps with permanents the next season. Rebuilds take time. If we hadn't had the squad left in such a state by previous owners then we wouldn't have to do this, but the reality is we do
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
To you it doesn’t.
To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to be better this year. 3 players.
This is a team that hasn’t replaced their top goal scorer chucks as well btw.
I agree with your points here mate. I personally would add that I think Stockleys great but for me is never going to be a striker that fires you to promotion. We need a goalscorer alongside him. What really worries me is the severe lack of goals through the starting 11 and back ups.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
To you it doesn’t. To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to better this year. 3 players.
But we are talking about why we are still relying on loans. The reason for that is because we've put a large amount of expenditure into signing up new players. Stockley is a new player, whether you want to accept that or not, and he came with a fee. The four out of contract players also had to be signed up, along with Famewo, Dobson, Mac and Clare. The point of what we're discussing is why we still need to get the loans, and all of these fees and new salaries are part of the budget for the year. That means that we can make some progress towards rebuilding but we will likely be unable to get an entirely new squad on permanents. That takes time and a lot of money and so we'll likely need to settle for some short term fills, and then we'll plug those gaps with permanents the next season. Rebuilds take time. If we hadn't had the squad left in such a state by previous owners then we wouldn't have to do this, but the reality is we do
Re-signing players is just standard expenditure, and I imagine the wages for Pearce and Watson have come down anyway. Dobson and Clare were hardly major signings financially
In the summer of 2016 we signed 10 players plus 3 loans to put it in context. That WAS a summer of rebuilding after relegation
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.
To you it doesn’t. To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to better this year. 3 players.
But we are talking about why we are still relying on loans. The reason for that is because we've put a large amount of expenditure into signing up new players. Stockley is a new player, whether you want to accept that or not, and he came with a fee. The four out of contract players also had to be signed up, along with Famewo, Dobson, Mac and Clare. The point of what we're discussing is why we still need to get the loans, and all of these fees and new salaries are part of the budget for the year. That means that we can make some progress towards rebuilding but we will likely be unable to get an entirely new squad on permanents. That takes time and a lot of money and so we'll likely need to settle for some short term fills, and then we'll plug those gaps with permanents the next season. Rebuilds take time. If we hadn't had the squad left in such a state by previous owners then we wouldn't have to do this, but the reality is we do
Going round in circles now.
No one realistically expected a whole new team of perms. But no one thought we’d have 3 players added to the team that finished outside of the playoffs last season at this point of the window.
We can disagree until we’re blue in the face on it, but this is the reality and no amount of sugar coating will make it look better.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
This. It's very rare that a lower league club is able to buy the loanee at the end of the season so you are inevitably having to replace 4 or 5 key players every season. Add to the fact that for every good (or even great) loanee there are 2 duds. For every Gallagher there is a Matt Smith & a Paul Smyth. For every Liam Millar there is an Andre Green and a Paul Davis.
I predict that we will bring in 1 permanent and then 3 or 4 loans. The loans will be late arriving (end of transfer window) and wont add much to the playing squad. To my mind this transfer window had been a mitigated disaster.
I would love to see an in depth documentary on a clubs recruitment process. We’ve all got this image of Football Manager which we know isn’t true, but we are also told of a team of people working round the clock. Fair enough, but what they doing? Who they calling? What they saying? It can’t be like Wolf of bloody Wall Street.
On the basis that we still need to sign 7 players and expect the majority of those to happen on deadline day, I think the club should do a Charlton TV 'deadline day special' broadcast.
I genuinely think that fans would pay £5-£10 to watch an afternoon / eve show where...
1. Scotty Minto holds live interviews with new signings 2. Gallen / Roddy give us updates on how they are getting on 3. Our physios discuss how they manage medicals on deadline day 4. Youngsters leaving the club on loan disuss their loan opportunities 5. We see new players integrated into Nigel / Johnnies training session & hear what NA & JJ expect our acquisitions to bring to the team 6. Chris Parkes talks about his role in registering players and avoiding another Hemed situation. 7. Plus we see highlights of the Charlton v Crawley Papa Johns tie happening on the same day.
A package like the above has the potential to make great viewing and see decent Charlton TV subscription sales for the club. With Minto on board we have a presenter good enough to deliver it.
Charging fans £5-£10 to then miss out on any signings minus a couple of loan bodies in at 11pm would be a hilarious calamity.
The physios sat around twiddling their thumbs all day with Chris Parkes while Nigel, Gallen and Roddy get into shouting matches all day.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
This. It's very rare that a lower league club is able to buy the loanee at the end of the season so you are inevitably having to replace 4 or 5 key players every season. Add to the fact that for every good (or even great) loanee there are 2 duds. For every Gallagher there is a Matt Smith & a Paul Smyth. For every Liam Millar there is an Andre Green and a Paul Davis.
I predict that we will bring in 1 permanent and then 3 or 4 loans. The loans will be late arriving (end of transfer window) and wont add much to the playing squad. To my mind this transfer window had been a mitigated disaster.
Paul Davis 😂
To be fair, I wouldn’t have put it past Southall to sign a bloke in his late 50s to keep us in the championship - more money for him to steal out of the club.
For the first time I’m actually worried . Other rival clubs are making signings and we haven’t signed anyone for over two weeks.
That can’t be right .
This squad is painfully thin . Worse than I can remember under some terrible owners and managers . Certainly worse than under Duchatulet
Either we don’t have a budget to get players in and if so why ? or Gallan has lost his powers of persuasion.
Either way it definitely feels like something is seriously wrong .
Blimey I’m beginning to sound like Golfie
Maybe it's the fact that 4 different people have to agree on players coming in. Gallen & Adkins should be wholly responsible. Roddy should just butt out & sandgaard only involved on the money side.
To be fair there's nothing wrong with utilising the loan system to give added quality that you can't afford, but the problem is that it's very short term as each year if they're 5 good loans, you lose nearly half your side in May.
And you're not building assets for the club, players that gain value and from which you profit in the transfer market. Arsenal massively benefited financially from Bielik
Not to mention that Gallen himself said in an interview that we don't want to be rebuilding the side every summer and needing 7-8 signings. He said ideally you'd just want 3 to complement what you already had.
We started off ok getting players in on 2-3 year deals but obviously since then things have stalled and the longer we leave it the more likely we are to end up with a bunch of loans again.
Sandgaard has now flown home, find it even stranger that he’s been here about 3 weeks and we haven’t signed anyone as we know he loves the limelight and being involved, really hoping we can get one or two over the line before Saturday because the atmosphere could turn a bit if it’s a bad performance.
Sandgaard has now flown home, find it even stranger that he’s been here about 3 weeks and we haven’t signed anyone as we know he loves the limelight and being involved, really hoping we can get one or two over the line before Saturday because the atmosphere could turn a bit if it’s a bad performance.
Other business interests to attend to perhaps. Whilst Sandgaard is not exempt from criticism I find it staggering that so early into his reign he is copping flak. The years of neglect and mess created are not going to be cleaned up in five minutes.
Sandgaard has now flown home, find it even stranger that he’s been here about 3 weeks and we haven’t signed anyone as we know he loves the limelight and being involved, really hoping we can get one or two over the line before Saturday because the atmosphere could turn a bit if it’s a bad performance.
Other business interests to attend to perhaps. Whilst Sandgaard is not exempt from criticism I find it staggering that so early into his reign he is copping flak. The years of neglect and mess created are not going to be cleaned up in five minutes.
Although he didn’t do himself any favours with his early comments.
Anyone who doesn’t see that he saved us is clearly moronic but that doesn’t mean we should be content with the squad we have either.
Comments
I genuinely think that fans would pay £5-£10 to watch an afternoon / eve show where...
1. Scotty Minto holds live interviews with new signings
2. Gallen / Roddy give us updates on how they are getting on
3. Our physios discuss how they manage medicals on deadline day
4. Youngsters leaving the club on loan disuss their loan opportunities
5. We see new players integrated into Nigel / Johnnies training session & hear what NA & JJ expect our acquisitions to bring to the team
6. Chris Parkes talks about his role in registering players and avoiding another Hemed situation.
7. Plus we see highlights of the Charlton v Crawley Papa Johns tie happening on the same day.
A package like the above has the potential to make great viewing and see decent Charlton TV subscription sales for the club. With Minto on board we have a presenter good enough to deliver it.
Big stretch to say Ive been banging on for months that we shouldn’t sign experienced championship players because I didn’t want us to resign matthews and Jordan cousins. I guess some people are content with mediocracy.
In the summer of 2016 we signed 10 players plus 3 loans to put it in context. That WAS a summer of rebuilding after relegation
No one realistically expected a whole new team of perms. But no one thought we’d have 3 players added to the team that finished outside of the playoffs last season at this point of the window.
I predict that we will bring in 1 permanent and then 3 or 4 loans. The loans will be late arriving (end of transfer window) and wont add much to the playing squad. To my mind this transfer window had been a mitigated disaster.
The physios sat around twiddling their thumbs all day with Chris Parkes while Nigel, Gallen and Roddy get into shouting matches all day.
To be fair, I wouldn’t have put it past Southall to sign a bloke in his late 50s to keep us in the championship - more money for him to steal out of the club.
We started off ok getting players in on 2-3 year deals but obviously since then things have stalled and the longer we leave it the more likely we are to end up with a bunch of loans again.
really hoping we can get one or two over the line before Saturday because the atmosphere could turn a bit if it’s a bad performance.
Whilst Sandgaard is not exempt from criticism I find it staggering that so early into his reign he is copping flak. The years of neglect and mess created are not going to be cleaned up in five minutes.