Well that's because they're two different people. One has built up a bank of goodwill and the other terrorised us and didn't give a flying shit.
Totally get that. And you are right. But between no signings in 3 weeks and a threadbare squad as the season is already underway and the fiasco of RRR the other day, I think that bank of goodwill is depleting more than one might think. And if we finish lower than last year (I think we finish 7th-14th this year) then things could get dark pretty fast.
What is the point of having so much negativity when all your points are of the if, but and maybe variety?
I don’t mean to just dig you out, as there’s a number of posters currently doing the same with Sandgaard frequently.
I think the end of season form gave TS a rosier outlook than is now apparent - losing chucks wasn't part of the plan - TS knows he will lose £6/7 million a year if we stay in league 1 - what he has to decide now is whether to throw another £2 or £3million into the squad recruitment to get out of it - i think we all assumed it was a given that he would and i'm still hoping / expecting that he will - kirk, a proven midfield general / playmaker and a goal scorer i would say are required to improve the first 11. A centre half, a left back, a pace merchant up top and another midfielder i would suggest can be taken from prem loans as a bit more of a gamble can be taken on those.
We Are starting to drift with the bookies now, out from 12/1 to 14/1. There opinion on us is obviously negative.
They don't have an opinion, it's who people are getting on that change their odds.
And the fact that we only drew
That wouldn’t make the bookies change the odds. If no one backs us we drift, if people steam in, they cut the odds. It’s a maths thing. If we signed Messi they’d cut the odds prior to the betting storm that’d follow.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
I don't think many people are saying they don't want loans though, I agree they are a necessity. What is damaging to the progress of the club is signing 3/4 loan players every season who simply have to be first team quality. It's a massive risk because they are largely unknown, shown by the varying degree of success we've had over the last few years. This summer I think most of us hoped to improve the quality of the core squad and then complete the squad late on with a few loans, that hasn't happened.
What's surprised me is that our only senior left back was injured TWO weeks before the start of the season, yet nobody has come in nearly 3 weeks later, forcing us to play a right back against Wednesday (solid but not attacking threat) and a rookie against Wimbledon.
Yes the club might have had priorities in terms of the timing of its transfers, but surely the Purrington injury should have made getting in a LB a top priority?
Not if we’re targeting players who clubs won’t sell/loan out yet, which I expect is the case.
I honestly think anyone who thinks it was better under Roland and even compares TS and Roland should get banned from The Valley until their head has been wobbled and they have came to their senses. There seems to be a real sense of entitlement brewing amongst our fan base and I don’t know where that’s coming from.
Sandgaard has now flown home, find it even stranger that he’s been here about 3 weeks and we haven’t signed anyone as we know he loves the limelight and being involved, really hoping we can get one or two over the line before Saturday because the atmosphere could turn a bit if it’s a bad performance.
Other business interests to attend to perhaps. Whilst Sandgaard is not exempt from criticism I find it staggering that so early into his reign he is copping flak. The years of neglect and mess created are not going to be cleaned up in five minutes.
Although he didn’t do himself any favours with his early comments.
Anyone who doesn’t see that he saved us is clearly moronic but that doesn’t mean we should be content with the squad we have either.
"We shouldn't be content with the squad we have either"
What do we have the right to expect? You (and the majority here) seem to think we have the right to expect better than a top 6 worthy squad, because we are Charlton. Why does Charlton have that right?
As a club we lose 10m per year or something. So surely the only right we have to is to expect bankruptcy? Why do we have the right to expect Thomas or any other non-Charlton fan to fund our expectations? As a club our rights extend only as far a self sustainable operation would allow us, which is far below this point.
Its unpalatable, but its the truth.
and will keep doing so all the time we are stuck in League One. Sometimes you need to speculate to accumulate.
my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
fair enough - i was only about 9 or 10 then but i just remember those guys being part of the old charlton that i first experienced when we were never going anywhere - fads kit promotion season aside - but i guess u r right - we r comparing what i consider to be dull lower championship sides with a side now which will be unlikely to get out of league 1
Early days yet, saturdays result was good and yes we need more players in but lets give it some time.
How much do we need. 5 weeks 1 signing. To get the 7 players we need a window that stays open until April!
We have to the end of the month for sure, I wouldn't have thought the manager, when questioned about the timing of incoming transfers, would have declared by the end of this window, if that wasn't the case.
I’m sorry to interrupt these moments of innovative, compelling footballing and financial clarity but as I rarely comment on here about footballing issues anymore if you don’t mind a distraction I do have a question or two.
Do you actually enjoy football? Do you actually enjoy supporting Charlton Athletic Football Club? Why exactly do you need to do this to yourselves?
I ask because reading through most of nearly 650 pages of this thread I am tempted to suggest the need for a collective « intervention ».
I mean Transfer Rumours eh? There’s a misnomer.
You know it is like when your mate taps you up for £10 again so he can buy a round, when you know he has just blown £50 at the bookies…..again …or in the old days when mid pint he would rush over screaming for coin as the fruit machine was just about to pay out….just like last week ……and the week before or
Maybe it is more like the mate who for the ninth week running has had just one or two drinks more than he could handle to take him from the level of pointless monosyllabic dialogue to becoming completely incoherent or
Maybe it is more like the other mate who once chose to shack up with « his » third girlfriend in six months who appeared to be just as tarty as the last two. Why do people keep shopping for life partners in the same places with the expectation « this one » will be different?
Anyway sorry to interrupt just thought I’d ask because I grew up loving the game of football, enjoying the physical activity, the fresh air, the developing of skills, the social interaction, the common interest across society, interacting with mates and family enjoying and/or commiserating the shared experience.
It was great. It was fun. There was good heathy competition. It was good family time, There were moments of success and celebration but with the reality try as you might you (and they) could not get it right every time.
Anyway as I say I just thought I would ask because I was beginning to wonder whether Football Clubs and Football Club message boards should carry government health warnings.
Lots of rumours about Baah going to Donny on loan. Given the amount of chat on here he wouldn't be coming to league 1, I expect to see some serious shitfits later!
He has now been declared a one game 2 goal player. Guess which club boosted his career. Yes ! Us.
Another player that Bowyer can claim came here and we improved him.
This is what makes it so difficult making perm signings in league one. They have to have the potential to play in the Champ. I'm guessing and hoping this is why it's not been easy.
We Are starting to drift with the bookies now, out from 12/1 to 14/1. There opinion on us is obviously negative.
They don't have an opinion, it's who people are getting on that change their odds.
Very true, and I expect there has been a few doom and gloomers from here betting against us that have changed the odds. Absolutely, stunned at some of the comments I have been reading, some people are so ungrateful and want everything now despite what has been going on for years.
This is what makes it so difficult making perm signings in league one. They have to have the potential to play in the Champ. I'm guessing and hoping this is why it's not been easy.
I would assume some of the thought process is around looking at what happened when Bowyer got promoted, big(ish) investment got us promoted, next to no NEW signings and covid hits, we're then relegated which would have cost us a lot of money.
We need to make sure if we are promoted we survive the first season back at Champ level at least. I just hope we do get promoted by whatever means.
This is what makes it so difficult making perm signings in league one. They have to have the potential to play in the Champ. I'm guessing and hoping this is why it's not been easy.
Think it's been made worse by the new work permit rules, Championship clubs could go and buy decent players from the EU with no issues, now the work permit rules effectively prohibit them from doing that, so will be shopping in League 1, where a club like us would have been a big fish in the pond, now we're not.
Of course we all wanted more and better players by now. We are football supporters, the same is true of every club in the land.
I expect that we are chasing those tricky ones whom are really too good for L1 so will leave it to the last moment. If so, we may just get them done at the last knockings of the window and we continue to hold our nerve. No point getting excited/worried until the window closes and we can then asses how strong the squad is.
I’m with Grapevine. Why do you bother? You all seem so miserable. You all seem so sure it’s all shit on a stick.
Maybe it’s because I’m away from it these days. But all I see is my club being slowly rebuilt after years of neglect. Rebuilt from the ground up. Not just the squad but everywhere.
Yes they made promises. What did you expect them to say ffs? You once believed in the tooth fairy & Santa Claus too right. We’re grown ups. We can tell when people are telling us what they would like to achieve but know it’s unlikely to happen. Jesus my bosses did this to me all my working life.
We are starting to have our Charlton back & that feels good.
As always Grapevine is spot on. As an idea should we have 2 x Rumours threads. One for the negative folks and a 2nd for the positive folks. That would cut down on the constant rows lol
As always Grapevine is spot on. As an idea should we have 2 x Rumours threads. One for the negative folks and a 2nd for the positive folks. That would cut down on the constant rows lol
You just know the negative lot would want to creep on the positive one to infect us with their negativity.
I’m with Grapevine. Why do you bother? You all seem so miserable. You all seem so sure it’s all shit on a stick.
Maybe it’s because I’m away from it these days. But all I see is my club being slowly rebuilt after years of neglect. Rebuilt from the ground up. Not just the squad but everywhere.
Yes they made promises. What did you expect them to say ffs? You once believed in the tooth fairy & Santa Claus too right. We’re grown ups. We can tell when people are telling us what they would like to achieve but know it’s unlikely to happen. Jesus my bosses did this to me all my working life.
We are starting to have our Charlton back & that feels good.
Now can we please have some rumours 🤷♀️
But they didn’t need to make promises they couldn’t deliver. We’ve been lied to for the last decade so why make it so much harder for themselves with unrealistic targets. If TS had said from the outset that there wasn’t much money to invest in the squad but the club has been saved I’m sure 99% of people on this forum would’ve not only accepted it but would’ve been grateful for what he’d done. I can’t help think that the negativity going around right now was self inflicted by over egging what was going to happen this season.
I’m sorry to interrupt these moments of innovative, compelling footballing and financial clarity but as I rarely comment on here about footballing issues anymore if you don’t mind a distraction I do have a question or two.
Do you actually enjoy football? Do you actually enjoy supporting Charlton Athletic Football Club? Why exactly do you need to do this to yourselves?
I ask because reading through most of nearly 650 pages of this thread I am tempted to suggest the need for a collective « intervention ».
I mean Transfer Rumours eh? There’s a misnomer.
You know it is like when your mate taps you up for £10 again so he can buy a round, when you know he has just blown £50 at the bookies…..again …or in the old days when mid pint he would rush over screaming for coin as the fruit machine was just about to pay out….just like last week ……and the week before or
Maybe it is more like the mate who for the ninth week running has had just one or two drinks more than he could handle to take him from the level of pointless monosyllabic dialogue to becoming completely incoherent or
Maybe it is more like the other mate who once chose to shack up with « his » third girlfriend in six months who appeared to be just as tarty as the last two. Why do people keep shopping for life partners in the same places with the expectation « this one » will be different?
Anyway sorry to interrupt just thought I’d ask because I grew up loving the game of football, enjoying the physical activity, the fresh air, the developing of skills, the social interaction, the common interest across society, interacting with mates and family enjoying and/or commiserating the shared experience.
It was great. It was fun. There was good heathy competition. It was good family time, There were moments of success and celebration but with the reality try as you might you (and they) could not get it right every time.
Anyway as I say I just thought I would ask because I was beginning to wonder whether Football Clubs and Football Club message boards should carry government health warnings.
Comments
I don’t mean to just dig you out, as there’s a number of posters currently doing the same with Sandgaard frequently.
There seems to be a real sense of entitlement brewing amongst our fan base and I don’t know where that’s coming from.
Do you actually enjoy football? Do you actually enjoy supporting Charlton Athletic Football Club? Why exactly do you need to do this to yourselves?
I ask because reading through most of nearly 650 pages of this thread I am tempted to suggest the need for a collective « intervention ».
I mean Transfer Rumours eh? There’s a misnomer.
You know it is like when your mate taps you up for £10 again so he can buy a round, when you know he has just blown £50 at the bookies…..again …or in the old days when mid pint he would rush over screaming for coin as the fruit machine was just about to pay out….just like last week ……and the week before or
Anyway sorry to interrupt just thought I’d ask because I grew up loving the game of football, enjoying the physical activity, the fresh air, the developing of skills, the social interaction, the common interest across society, interacting with mates and family enjoying and/or commiserating the shared experience.
It was great. It was fun. There was good heathy competition. It was good family time, There were moments of success and celebration but with the reality try as you might you (and they) could not get it right every time.
Anyway as I say I just thought I would ask because I was beginning to wonder whether Football Clubs and Football Club message boards should carry government health warnings.
Carry on….just 20 sleeps to go.
We need to make sure if we are promoted we survive the first season back at Champ level at least. I just hope we do get promoted by whatever means.
I expect that we are chasing those tricky ones whom are really too good for L1 so will leave it to the last moment. If so, we may just get them done at the last knockings of the window and we continue to hold our nerve. No point getting excited/worried until the window closes and we can then asses how strong the squad is.
Instant.
Instant results, instant glory, instant satisfaction………instant.
I’m with Grapevine. Why do you bother? You all seem so miserable. You all seem so sure it’s all shit on a stick.
Maybe it’s because I’m away from it these days. But all I see is my club being slowly rebuilt after years of neglect. Rebuilt from the ground up. Not just the squad but everywhere.
Yes they made promises. What did you expect them to say ffs? You once believed in the tooth fairy & Santa Claus too right. We’re grown ups. We can tell when people are telling us what they would like to achieve but know it’s unlikely to happen. Jesus my bosses did this to me all my working life.
We are starting to have our Charlton back & that feels good.
Now can we please have some rumours 🤷♀️
If TS had said from the outset that there wasn’t much money to invest in the squad but the club has been saved I’m sure 99% of people on this forum would’ve not only accepted it but would’ve been grateful for what he’d done. I can’t help think that the negativity going around right now was self inflicted by over egging what was going to happen this season.