my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
fair enough - i was only about 9 or 10 then but i just remember those guys being part of the old charlton that i first experienced when we were never going anywhere - fads kit promotion season aside - but i guess u r right - we r comparing what i consider to be dull lower championship sides with a side now which will be unlikely to get out of league 1
Early days yet, saturdays result was good and yes we need more players in but lets give it some time.
I would love to see an in depth documentary on a clubs recruitment process. We’ve all got this image of Football Manager which we know isn’t true, but we are also told of a team of people working round the clock. Fair enough, but what they doing? Who they calling? What they saying? It can’t be like Wolf of bloody Wall Street.
If we buy players of league 1 standard players this season, won’t we need another re-build if we go up?
Players blossom and there’s always some surprises. For example, very few would have thought Karlan Grant would have been prem standard (or at least upper championship standard) before the season had started. There will be some players from this crop who will be Championship level if we do go up.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
If we buy players of league 1 standard players this season, won’t we need another re-build if we go up?
Could be another we're seeing a slow market with us.
We could well be aiming for ready made Championship players rather than those who are experienced at this level, but unknown commodities at the level above (Joe Pigott and Scott Fraser for example), who want to hold out and see if there will be interest from that level before they drop down - Two year contracts all round certainly dont make sense.
Would like to point out that I'm not burying my head in the sand, nor being needlessly positive as usual - I just try to find reasons as to why things arent happening, rather than simply presuming the worst... Ultimately I know I'll probably be more wrong than right on these occasions, but its certainly feels a healthier / better approach to being miserable
I would love to see an in depth documentary on a clubs recruitment process. We’ve all got this image of Football Manager which we know isn’t true, but we are also told of a team of people working round the clock. Fair enough, but what they doing? Who they calling? What they saying? It can’t be like Wolf of bloody Wall Street.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.
I can’t understand how their has been such little activity with things being worked on ‘day and night’ for weeks now.
I thought this would be different, but we will again be relying on loan players this summer to get us promoted.
If we buy players of league 1 standard players this season, won’t we need another re-build if we go up?
Could be another we're seeing a slow market with us.
We could well be aiming for ready made Championship players rather than those who are experienced at this level, but unknown commodities at the level above (Joe Pigott and Scott Fraser for example), who want to hold out and see if there will be interest from that level before they drop down - Two year contracts all round certainly dont make sense.
Would like to point out that I'm not burying my head in the sand, nor being needlessly positive as usual - I just try to find reasons as to why things arent happening, rather than simply presuming the worst... Ultimately I know I'll probably be more wrong than right on these occasions, but its certainly feels a healthier / better approach to being miserable
My view exactly. Spending needs to be made on players that can make the journey, and securing the youth players on contracts. We spent years getting in this mess and it may take a bit longer to build than TS first thought. I have total faith in SG to still bring in a couple of decent players on permanent contracts and excel in the loan market. It is what he does and he is very good at it.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.
The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?
GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.
The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?
GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least
I suspect a large part of our recruitment problems to date is down to getting 4 people to agree on a player they all want within budget. Can’t be many other clubs who operate in this way I would of thought.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.
The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?
GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least.
100% TS will take the flack.
For the record I’m not one of those who will ‘have the knives out’ for him. BUT like a lot of people i’m baffled at our lack of activity this window, and would like to understand why we are again relying heavily on loans this summer (as is likely to happen).
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.
If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
And this is the million dollar question. Why is this our reality after all that’s been said?
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior game
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.
I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior game
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.
I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.
Gallagher had no league experience. Was our best player by a mile
There is a difference though between loaning and buying players from a PL giant. The former happens because the PL wants to keep them, but give them match experience. The latter happens because the PL side doesn't think they're good enough
Of course that's a simplistic division, as PL clubs like Chelsea hoard young players as a business, but it also has to be said that loads of players have come out of Arsenal and Spurs and vanished to the lower leagues or non league once the "former Arsenal/Spurs player" sheen wears off.
i am reliably informed that kirk to us is still going to happen - i know nothing on timescales - the source is no longer cast iron, once was as cast iron as u could get, but is still very close to many who are cast iron - stick that in the smelting pot - hopefully a little boost for those who choose to believe it, i have no reason not to
Sounds like a saucepan. Geddit, source, pan? Oh forget it. Got anymore copper-bottomed rumours?
my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
Tydeman and Peacock's free kick routines were the stuff of legend
We won't get relegated with this side, no. But we sure has hell won't get anywhere near the top 6 either.
The concerning thing for me is there's nothing to suggest to me so far that we'll be entertaining to watch this season, and I'll be ok with that if it's effective and gets us out of this poxy league, but that won't be the case with the current players.
3 weeks to shape the squad, and any new signings now will take time to integrate into our squad, the system in place and the way we play
It won't take long to get used to the way we play.....
Get the ball lump it long towards Jayden. Rinse and repeat.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budget
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly noted
i am reliably informed that kirk to us is still going to happen - i know nothing on timescales - the source is no longer cast iron, once was as cast iron as u could get, but is still very close to many who are cast iron - stick that in the smelting pot - hopefully a little boost for those who choose to believe it, i have no reason not to
Sounds like a saucepan. Geddit, source, pan? Oh forget it. Got anymore copper-bottomed rumours?
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
Who said they don’t want loans?
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.
If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.
And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news
Comments
We could well be aiming for ready made Championship players rather than those who are experienced at this level, but unknown commodities at the level above (Joe Pigott and Scott Fraser for example), who want to hold out and see if there will be interest from that level before they drop down - Two year contracts all round certainly dont make sense.
Would like to point out that I'm not burying my head in the sand, nor being needlessly positive as usual - I just try to find reasons as to why things arent happening, rather than simply presuming the worst... Ultimately I know I'll probably be more wrong than right on these occasions, but its certainly feels a healthier / better approach to being miserable
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
I have total faith in SG to still bring in a couple of decent players on permanent contracts and excel in the loan market. It is what he does and he is very good at it.
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least.
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.
What?
Of course that's a simplistic division, as PL clubs like Chelsea hoard young players as a business, but it also has to be said that loads of players have come out of Arsenal and Spurs and vanished to the lower leagues or non league once the "former Arsenal/Spurs player" sheen wears off.
Geddit, source, pan? Oh forget it.
Got anymore copper-bottomed rumours?
Get the ball lump it long towards Jayden. Rinse and repeat.
PS try not to shoot
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news