Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Loans should be used to compliment what you already have not to be relied upon to fill your squad up.
my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Loans are fine, but if nearly 50% of your team is made up of them, you are always going to be rebuilding your squad each summer. And we always end up with crap like Matt Smith x 2, Levitt, Smyth, Davis, McGeady, Kaikai, Zyro etc, etc. Sure we get the odd golden nugget like Gallagher and DaSilva but the loan game isn’t really the basis to build your “5 year plan on” unless that plan is to tread water.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (2 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
You put him right in the bin there, love that haha
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
To be fair there's nothing wrong with utilising the loan system to give added quality that you can't afford, but the problem is that it's very short term as each year if they're 5 good loans, you lose nearly half your side in May.
And you're not building assets for the club, players that gain value and from which you profit in the transfer market. Arsenal massively benefited financially from Bielik
the docherty, pavel abbot , daily era and crofts / foley was the worst i can remember although yes, in the early eighties when i first started going a fair amount, the likes of berry and tydeman were pretty uninspiring, as was the huge ground with not many fans in it meaning not much atmosphere - we're not far off a good team here with a good owner, good fanbase and a great stadium - TS needs to just go that extra bit now and we can take off again
The side we sent out against Walsall in 2010 was pretty heartbreaking. Elliot, Francis, Doherty, Fortune, Fry, Jackson, Semedo, Racon, Wagstaff, Anyinsah, Benson. If we've ever put out a worse backline than that I'll be shocked. We lost 1-0.
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior game
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.
I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.
my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
@DOUCHER . If you have time watch the Big Match Revisited's highlights of the Fulham V Charlton match, You will see what a cultured player Tydeman was .
my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.
fair enough - i was only about 9 or 10 then but i just remember those guys being part of the old charlton that i first experienced when we were never going anywhere - fads kit promotion season aside - but i guess u r right - we r comparing what i consider to be dull lower championship sides with a side now which will be unlikely to get out of league 1
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.
Maybe you know a lot more about him than me (which until today was nothing), but I tend to take those 'highly rated' comments from Prem fans with a massive pinch of salt. They're not usually a good judge of how well young players will do out on loan in the lower divisions.
Interesting signing for Sunderland though, given he has no experience it's a gamble that could be anything from a brilliant signing to a complete waste of money.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 2 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
People really haven't learned anything from having to rebuild after every season, have they?
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Can you sign players like Cullen, Beilik, Millar, Da Silva, Maatsen on permanents? No you can't.
Of course it's not ideal as a long term solution neither is the bollocks about sustainability, 3 transfer windows, pathways or any of the other nonsense banded about.
Add 4 good loans and 2 perms to our current squad and it could look very good. Don't use the loans and we won't finish top half.
When your in the championship you can think about bells and whistles and plans, models and God knows what else people bang on about.
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior game
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.
I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.
Gallagher had no league experience. Was our best player by a mile
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 2 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 2 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.
Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Third?
Only January and this one isn’t it?
Took over last September.
We had about 10 days of the summer window last season (window was extended) in which we signed most of our loans and a few first teamers.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last season
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.
Oh god yeah I completely agree
I do wonder if this is a forced move this summer due to Brexit and COVID - Clubs wont sell because its harder to bring in talent from abroad, not to mention they want to sell for inflated prices to speed up the recovery process from the last year and a half.
As I've said privately with another poster though RE: the loan market...
The problem is you're almost playing dice with the devil by relying on the loan market so heavily - There is a reason that Shrewsbury (and I reckon Lincoln) cant sustain a promotion push every year because it is an impossible job to keep trying to find the next Conor Gallagher or Brennan Johnson as you'll inevitablly end up with the next Matt Smith or Martyn Waghorn.
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At 22 days, we are the furthest away from our most recent signing compared to every other club in this division. By six days.
And you're not building assets for the club, players that gain value and from which you profit in the transfer market. Arsenal massively benefited financially from Bielik
Interesting signing for Sunderland though, given he has no experience it's a gamble that could be anything from a brilliant signing to a complete waste of money.
Of course it's not ideal as a long term solution neither is the bollocks about sustainability, 3 transfer windows, pathways or any of the other nonsense banded about.
Add 4 good loans and 2 perms to our current squad and it could look very good. Don't use the loans and we won't finish top half.
When your in the championship you can think about bells and whistles and plans, models and God knows what else people bang on about.
Took over last September.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
I do wonder if this is a forced move this summer due to Brexit and COVID - Clubs wont sell because its harder to bring in talent from abroad, not to mention they want to sell for inflated prices to speed up the recovery process from the last year and a half.
As I've said privately with another poster though RE: the loan market...
The problem is you're almost playing dice with the devil by relying on the loan market so heavily - There is a reason that Shrewsbury (and I reckon Lincoln) cant sustain a promotion push every year because it is an impossible job to keep trying to find the next Conor Gallagher or Brennan Johnson as you'll inevitablly end up with the next Matt Smith or Martyn Waghorn.