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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
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And there is a big difference between playing a striker/winger than a centre back.Covered_End_Lad said:
There is a difference between blooding youngsters and relying on them to perform conistently in professional football.RonnieMoore said:
Good job we did not have the save attitude with players like Paul Walsh a d Robert Lee …RedChaser said:RonnieMoore said:
Why bring Sims in just to calm fans when we have a young lad Charlie Clayden know which one I would rather have in our teamMarcusH26 said:I thought Cawley had ruled out Josh Sims? Decent enough player but not someone I remember us being linked with before.Okay I’ll bite 🙄. In the words of a famous tennis player ‘you cannot be serious’! I can’t recall Sims against us for Donny but he’s now 24, an England youth international with over 75 first team appearances for a few league clubs under his belt, over a third of those last season.
Clayden was plucked out of Orients disbanded youth team, aged 20 no league appearances, a late developer. Showed promise scoring in the first half Welling friendly who offered little competition. Not so good for the 2nd half against Dartford who offered a much sterner test. In fact I thought he should’ve mixed it up a bit rather than trying to be Roy of the Rovers. He’s got a lot to learn and a way to go if he is to get in the ‘team’ as you put it.
Sims could do a job now, Clayden is one for the future and slowly introduced to the squad IMHO.
If we can’t blood young players in league one then we might as well close the academy and save millions of pounds each year
We normally get it spot on, the odd appearance in the cups and during extreme injury/suspension period is fine. Having a 17 year old who has only ever played at u18's level being one of your 4 senior CBs when a couple of the others are injury prone is just incredibly naive.
History can inform us that certain players made their debuts in their teams but lists such as above miss out the young players thrown in too early or like Parker who only came good years later.
Grant is a good recent example of a player who had too much pressure put on too young.
Last season, out of necessity, Barker played three or four games at a similar age to Deji is now. No one is now saying he's ready to start in the first team.
Ultimately, the management see him day to day and will be better placed to judge how ready he is.5 -
Andy Carroll been released by Newcastle would be a perfect replacement for Chuks.
(runs away and takes cover)7 -
Holds off a National League South Striker = The next Joe Gomez.
Ok chaps.16 -
Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?6 -
I can see Clayden playing a big part. He looks a real find to me.RedChaser said:RonnieMoore said:
Why bring Sims in just to calm fans when we have a young lad Charlie Clayden know which one I would rather have in our teamMarcusH26 said:I thought Cawley had ruled out Josh Sims? Decent enough player but not someone I remember us being linked with before.Okay I’ll bite 🙄. In the words of a famous tennis player ‘you cannot be serious’! I can’t recall Sims against us for Donny but he’s now 24, an England youth international with over 75 first team appearances for a few league clubs under his belt, over a third of those last season.
Clayden was plucked out of Orients disbanded youth team, aged 20 no league appearances, a late developer. Showed promise scoring in the first half Welling friendly who offered little competition. Not so good for the 2nd half against Dartford who offered a much sterner test. In fact I thought he should’ve mixed it up a bit rather than trying to be Roy of the Rovers. He’s got a lot to learn and a way to go if he is to get in the ‘team’ as you put it.
Sims could do a job now, Clayden is one for the future and slowly introduced to the squad IMHO.
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First impressions are good but how many times have you seen him play?MuttleyCAFC said:
I can see Clayden playing a big part. He looks a real find to me.RedChaser said:RonnieMoore said:
Why bring Sims in just to calm fans when we have a young lad Charlie Clayden know which one I would rather have in our teamMarcusH26 said:I thought Cawley had ruled out Josh Sims? Decent enough player but not someone I remember us being linked with before.Okay I’ll bite 🙄. In the words of a famous tennis player ‘you cannot be serious’! I can’t recall Sims against us for Donny but he’s now 24, an England youth international with over 75 first team appearances for a few league clubs under his belt, over a third of those last season.
Clayden was plucked out of Orients disbanded youth team, aged 20 no league appearances, a late developer. Showed promise scoring in the first half Welling friendly who offered little competition. Not so good for the 2nd half against Dartford who offered a much sterner test. In fact I thought he should’ve mixed it up a bit rather than trying to be Roy of the Rovers. He’s got a lot to learn and a way to go if he is to get in the ‘team’ as you put it.
Sims could do a job now, Clayden is one for the future and slowly introduced to the squad IMHO.
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Wayne Rooney and Cesc Fabegas were two of the best players in the Premier league at 17. Ronaldo wasn't.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Lets take the pinicle of international football. How many of the current England team were first team regulars at 17 or 18? Probably less than half of them?
Look at players like Parker and KAG they were "in and around" the first team at 16/17 but didn't cement a place until they were about 20. The same with Konsa and Aribo.
Yes blood, no make them play every game.0 -
Injury prone and passes the height test...get him in!!Cafc43v3r said:Andy Carroll been released by Newcastle would be a perfect replacement for Chuks.
(runs away and takes cover)
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There is compromise between the two though isn't there?Cafc43v3r said:
Your comparing someone who is already 20 and never played a league game, for anyone, with two England Internationals?RonnieMoore said:
Good job we did not have the save attitude with players like Paul Walsh a d Robert Lee …RedChaser said:RonnieMoore said:
Why bring Sims in just to calm fans when we have a young lad Charlie Clayden know which one I would rather have in our teamMarcusH26 said:I thought Cawley had ruled out Josh Sims? Decent enough player but not someone I remember us being linked with before.Okay I’ll bite 🙄. In the words of a famous tennis player ‘you cannot be serious’! I can’t recall Sims against us for Donny but he’s now 24, an England youth international with over 75 first team appearances for a few league clubs under his belt, over a third of those last season.
Clayden was plucked out of Orients disbanded youth team, aged 20 no league appearances, a late developer. Showed promise scoring in the first half Welling friendly who offered little competition. Not so good for the 2nd half against Dartford who offered a much sterner test. In fact I thought he should’ve mixed it up a bit rather than trying to be Roy of the Rovers. He’s got a lot to learn and a way to go if he is to get in the ‘team’ as you put it.
Sims could do a job now, Clayden is one for the future and slowly introduced to the squad IMHO.
If we can’t blood young players in league one then we might as well close the academy and save millions of pounds each year
We have now reached peek paradox where half the supporters want 10 signings and the other half don't want any and to give the 17 year olds a chance. In fact I think there have been some people arguing both points simultaneously.
Last season with Pearce, Watson, Pratley and Gunter sometimes all playing together we lacked pace and energy. Luke Shaw made his debut under Adkins and as a 17 year old made 28 appearances in 2012/13. Similarly Oxlade-Chamberlain made 41 appearances at 17 in 2010/11 under Adkins too.
Perhaps our current Manager sees in our squad a Luke Shaw or Oxlade-Chamberlain? Mourinho wouldn't play them at that age because he always wants the finished article. Bowyer seemed to be that way inclined too unless they were on loan but even then there were plenty that hardly got a sniff.1 -
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Not enough, and I am certainly interested to see him play against better opposition. That is probably an understatement. He is nearly 21 and looks very promising indeed. I think out of the ordinary promising. Always positive but backs it up with most of his moves coming off.0
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Surely Birmingham aren't proposing to sign Carroll as a super sub for Aneke are they?Cafc43v3r said:Andy Carroll been released by Newcastle would be a perfect replacement for Chuks.
(runs away and takes cover)0 -
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
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Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?
Nothing unfortunately! Hope it livens up a bit as TS' guitar solo's won't go down too well if we start the season as we are now 😂...6 -
The moves didn’t quite come off for him v Dartford but I’ve only seen him in the second half there and first half at Welling so it’s very early days for me to nail my colours to the mast just yet 😉.MuttleyCAFC said:Not enough, and I am certainly interested to see him play against better opposition. That is probably an understatement. He is nearly 21 and looks very promising indeed. I think out of the ordinary promising. Always positive but backs it up with most of his moves coming off.
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Not as much as against Welling but I think he still showed well.0
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Diego Poyet - 18 too. He played CM, in the Championship and a thin frame (back then).0
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Is this Yardi?Cafc43v3r said:
Wayne Rooney and Cesc Fabegas were two of the best players in the Premier league at 17. Ronaldo wasn't.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Lets take the pinicle of international football. How many of the current England team were first team regulars at 17 or 18? Probably less than half of them?
Look at players like Parker and KAG they were "in and around" the first team at 16/17 but didn't cement a place until they were about 20. The same with Konsa and Aribo.
Yes blood, no make them play every game.17 -
Not a sausage about anything. The last thing I heard about anything specific was Pritchard to Sunderland a few hours before it was widely reported.Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?
I strongly suspect the July payroll will focus a few minds at the "smaller clubs" and the big boys getting their business done post euros will start filtering down. Remember a lot of premier league teams will be holding on to their youngsters so they can feild teams for preseason friendlies.1 -
Most players who played beyond the group stages won't be back for another week, and a fortnight for those who got to the Quarters?Cafc43v3r said:
Not a sausage about anything. The last thing I heard about anything specific was Pritchard to Sunderland a few hours before it was widely reported.Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?
I strongly suspect the July payroll will focus a few minds at the "smaller clubs" and the big boys getting their business done post euros will start filtering down. Remember a lot of premier league teams will be holding on to their youngsters so they can feild teams for preseason friendlies.0 -
Sponsored links:
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Of course there is. I have said multiple times if they are good enough and ready they will play. If they aren't they won't unless the injury fiasco of 2019 is repeated.Addick Addict said:
There is compromise between the two though isn't there?Cafc43v3r said:
Your comparing someone who is already 20 and never played a league game, for anyone, with two England Internationals?RonnieMoore said:
Good job we did not have the save attitude with players like Paul Walsh a d Robert Lee …RedChaser said:RonnieMoore said:
Why bring Sims in just to calm fans when we have a young lad Charlie Clayden know which one I would rather have in our teamMarcusH26 said:I thought Cawley had ruled out Josh Sims? Decent enough player but not someone I remember us being linked with before.Okay I’ll bite 🙄. In the words of a famous tennis player ‘you cannot be serious’! I can’t recall Sims against us for Donny but he’s now 24, an England youth international with over 75 first team appearances for a few league clubs under his belt, over a third of those last season.
Clayden was plucked out of Orients disbanded youth team, aged 20 no league appearances, a late developer. Showed promise scoring in the first half Welling friendly who offered little competition. Not so good for the 2nd half against Dartford who offered a much sterner test. In fact I thought he should’ve mixed it up a bit rather than trying to be Roy of the Rovers. He’s got a lot to learn and a way to go if he is to get in the ‘team’ as you put it.
Sims could do a job now, Clayden is one for the future and slowly introduced to the squad IMHO.
If we can’t blood young players in league one then we might as well close the academy and save millions of pounds each year
We have now reached peek paradox where half the supporters want 10 signings and the other half don't want any and to give the 17 year olds a chance. In fact I think there have been some people arguing both points simultaneously.
Last season with Pearce, Watson, Pratley and Gunter sometimes all playing together we lacked pace and energy. Luke Shaw made his debut under Adkins and as a 17 year old made 28 appearances in 2012/13. Similarly Oxlade-Chamberlain made 41 appearances at 17 in 2010/11 under Adkins too.
Perhaps our current Manager sees in our squad a Luke Shaw or Oxlade-Chamberlain? Mourinho wouldn't play them at that age because he always wants the finished article. Bowyer seemed to be that way inclined too unless they were on loan but even then there were plenty that hardly got a sniff.
There are always exceptions but very few players do establish them selves as teenagers. Shaw, JWP and AOC are a bit freaky but Southampton also had Bale and Walcott before hand. We have been out of the Premier league for so long none of our academy players we signed when we were in it. We haven't been able to retain our best ones due to historical issues.
All of this will take time to resolve and the current crop of first year pros and 2nd year scholars is a start and a move in the right direction but it will take time. We can't magic up the 19/20 year olds we have already lost.1 -
how many did he run intoAndyG said:
Did Pratley play ? If so have Spurs now got enough players left to make a team up lolCafc43v3r said:
CheersRonnieMoore said:FT Orient 1-1 Spurs
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Sod me. Deji has his own thread and still manages to monopolise the rumours thread.3
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AndyG said:
Well that depends on what's classed as new mate lolCovered End said:
You're not newAndyG said:
Oh bloody hell as a new poster on here I hope we are not going to be the new target of the old guard until a real rumour occurs 😂😂😂Covered End said:
A number of the "newer" posters oh here mainly offering transfer rumours are likely also on another forum.RedRobin said:This rumour about disillusionment in the club has come from a post on another forum, just made up bollocks because some supporters are upset we’ve not made 10 new signings and spent millions, so something must be up!
You can surmise as such by their writing style.
You're new if you joined CL after 2006.
Blimmin' Johnny Come Lateleys
1 -
Nothing new, however what I was told last week sounded close enough to assume they would be announced this week, barring any last minute medical issues (again!).Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?20 -
give us a clue lad, just a crumb, anything. Height, his star sign?Covered_End_Lad said:
Nothing new, however what I was told last week sounded close enough to assume they would be announced this week, barring any last minute medical issues (again!).Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?1 -
Damn, missed the important cut off by 4 months 😉Oggy Red said:AndyG said:
Well that depends on what's classed as new mate lolCovered End said:
You're not newAndyG said:
Oh bloody hell as a new poster on here I hope we are not going to be the new target of the old guard until a real rumour occurs 😂😂😂Covered End said:
A number of the "newer" posters oh here mainly offering transfer rumours are likely also on another forum.RedRobin said:This rumour about disillusionment in the club has come from a post on another forum, just made up bollocks because some supporters are upset we’ve not made 10 new signings and spent millions, so something must be up!
You can surmise as such by their writing style.
You're new if you joined CL after 2006.
Blimmin' Johnny Come Lateleys1 -
Looks like Cawley has given up with replying to everyone asking about transfers under every article he posts7
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Braziliance said:
give us a clue lad, just a crumb, anything. Height, his star sign?Covered_End_Lad said:
Nothing new, however what I was told last week sounded close enough to assume they would be announced this week, barring any last minute medical issues (again!).Dazzler21 said:Can we get back to rumours?
@Covered_End_Lad
@Addicks59
@ButtleJR
@Cafc43v3r
You've all had info recently any updates or fresh takes?
8
This discussion has been closed.
