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E-Scooters

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  • Rob7Lee said:
    As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
    There seems to be a difference in the people who use e-scooters and how they are used (generally) 
  • I work for the DVSA, we have a whole dept looking into micro mobility, and the legal/construction and use questions, however one thing is becoming clear some form of registration and insurance for both cyclists, and e-scooters, powered skate boards will be needed. 
    The question is how do we enforce it as most vehicle legislation starts once the vehicle weighs above 35kgs and can exceed 10kph, (Fast walk). It might have to be done at point of sale( we were told good luck with that given the internet), however most cycles
    are obviously well below 35kgs. 
    Most cyclist are only too aware what they might look like when the exit from the underside of any motor vehicle. Its only a matter of time before e-scooters start becoming a KSI statistic, in significant numbers.

    For all the rhetoric it myself and Met Police colleagues who have to talk to drivers who have had a serious collision, and believe me it effects us all. Especially  the guys and girls in the white hats who have to deliver the death message.

    Cycle and drive with consideration for ALL road users, from the pedestrian with their ear phone in, to the disabled who might not be quite so nimble, to the cyclist who jumps the lights, don't get in a fluster,
    just make sure YOU are as safe as you can be.
    Glad to hear your department are working on it. I'm sure someone else will have already thought of it, but what would be the problem with making it mandatory to have an insurance badge fitted to all scooters and bikes? Something the size of a PSV badge would not be obtrusive, any scooter riden without a badge would be liable for confiscation. They could even be fitted with tracker chips to monitor speed and pavement use.
  • edited June 26
    "Glad to hear your department are working on it. I'm sure someone else will have already thought of it, but what would be the problem with making it mandatory to have an insurance badge fitted to all scooters and bikes? Something the size of a PSV badge would not be obtrusive, any scooter riden without a badge would be liable for confiscation. They could even be fitted with tracker chips to monitor speed and pavement use."

     Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen. And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA),  Local Councils? As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy? 

    It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.

  • edited June 26
    Thanks for your response @usedtobunkin Obviously there are a lot of issues with it, perhaps there are more that you're aware of and I'm not. In response to your points, I'd say the following.

    • Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen.
    This is undoubtedly true, but it's true of practically everything in life. If it is profitable for people to circumvent the law, some people will try to do it. I don't believe we should limit our measures to those that will be 100% successful. If we did, we wouldn't have anything.

    • And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA),  Local Councils?
    I'd think licence provision would have to be policed on a national level, so presumably the DVSA would be the best fit. Though, like all govt Departments and Agencies it would need proper resourcing to operate. Costs to be met by a charge on the end user. Schemes could be operated though licenced businesses. As for policing on the ground, I think both police and councils could have a role to play. 

    • As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy? 
    Blocked chips would be invalidated - big penalties for this.  As for privacy, perhaps 'tracker' is the wrong phrase. I've no interest in knowing where people have come from or where they are going to, but it should be possible to record if they've gone out of bounds (pedestrian only areas) or gone too fast. There are already a range of measures that are allowed for such things within motor vehicles including speed cameras, bus lane cameras, private car park cameras and tachographs in commercial vehicles. None of these are deemed to infringe on rights to privacy. The law could be framed so that chips on scooters don't either.

    • It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.
    Needing an act of parliament should never be an excuse for not doing something. Our MPs are there to serve us.  Good point about disability transport, hadn't though of that and wasn't aware of electric rickshaws - now I want a go on one ;-)

  • 16 year old boy on an E scooter killed in Bromley this morning.
  • 16 year old boy on an E scooter killed in Bromley this morning.
    Just to add a bit of context, it was a hit and run by a drunk driver at 1am this morning.
  • 16 year old boy on an E scooter killed in Bromley this morning.
    Just to add a bit of context, it was a hit and run by a drunk driver at 1am this morning.
    If they know the person was drunk, they've been caught?
  • 16 year old boy on an E scooter killed in Bromley this morning.
    Just to add a bit of context, it was a hit and run by a drunk driver at 1am this morning.
    If they know the person was drunk, they've been caught?
    While the kid lay dying on the floor someone nicked the scooter too.
  • We are surrounded by scum.
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  • PopIcon said:
    16 year old boy on an E scooter killed in Bromley this morning.
    Just to add a bit of context, it was a hit and run by a drunk driver at 1am this morning.
    If they know the person was drunk, they've been caught?
    While the kid lay dying on the floor someone nicked the scooter too.
    Jesus Christ what is wrong with some people.

    rip the lad who was killed 
  • Radio saying that the rider stopped and apologised to the child and mother then rode off. They believe that he didn’t realise how serious the collision was.
  • shocking, hope the little one is ok - am sure this won't be the last of these sort of stories around e-scooters, I've seen some of them belting along

    (what was a 3 year old doing in the park at 8.30pm?)
  • Yea I see that too on sky news that he stopped to say sorry.

    'Sorry for smashing my illegally driven e-scooter into your 3 year old daughter causing her life changing injuries but I must dash'
  • shocking, hope the little one is ok - am sure this won't be the last of these sort of stories around e-scooters, I've seen some of them belting along

    (what was a 3 year old doing in the park at 8.30pm?)

    My guess is that his mum took him out to get some fresh air and exercise once the worst of the heat had passed, much the same as people should be doing with their dogs at the moment
  • I live on a road where the houses have drives, many of which have hedges and walls which obscure the driver's view of the pavement, so they have to edge out very slowly. Some of the e scooter 'drivers' who ride along the pavement at great speed, wouldn't stand a chance if a driver sees them too late.

    I hope the parents who buy these scooters for their children, are aware of the risks they are taking with their children's lives.
  • I live on a road where the houses have drives, many of which have hedges and walls which obscure the driver's view of the pavement, so they have to edge out very slowly. Some of the e scooter 'drivers' who ride along the pavement at great speed, wouldn't stand a chance if a driver sees them too late.

    I hope the parents who buy these scooters for their children, are aware of the risks they are taking with their children's lives.
    I doubt they give a toss. They buy an illegal to drive on public places vehicle and expect their offspring to to behave in a sensible manner. I think not. 
  • Rob7Lee said:
    As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
      Scooters are not easy to see, the riders wear dark clothing,  they are not fitted with lights, are often ridden on pavements, the wrong way on one way systems and sometimes groups of yoof using threatening behaviour to everyone.  The electric bikes are more expensive so a bit more exclusive. 

    On the continent in many countries if a law doesn't exist permitting say , an electric scooter then it isn't legal.

     In England if a law doesn't exist regarding these they are automatically legal .  I know which way I prefer it. 
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  • "Glad to hear your department are working on it. I'm sure someone else will have already thought of it, but what would be the problem with making it mandatory to have an insurance badge fitted to all scooters and bikes? Something the size of a PSV badge would not be obtrusive, any scooter riden without a badge would be liable for confiscation. They could even be fitted with tracker chips to monitor speed and pavement use."

     Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen. And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA),  Local Councils? As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy? 

    It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.

    The last two can be excluded from a new act.
  • shocking, hope the little one is ok - am sure this won't be the last of these sort of stories around e-scooters, I've seen some of them belting along

    (what was a 3 year old doing in the park at 8.30pm?)
    Maybe too hot to sleep, had a long sleep during the day. It’s wasn’t 1am! 
  • Rob7Lee said:
    As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
      Scooters are not easy to see, the riders wear dark clothing,  they are not fitted with lights, are often ridden on pavements, the wrong way on one way systems and sometimes groups of yoof using threatening behaviour to everyone.  The electric bikes are more expensive so a bit more exclusive. 

    On the continent in many countries if a law doesn't exist permitting say , an electric scooter then it isn't legal.

     In England if a law doesn't exist regarding these they are automatically legal .  I know which way I prefer it. 

    Say goodbye to an awful lot of inventing.
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