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E-Scooters
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A visually impaired woman from London says e-scooters are not safe enough to be used across the city as they do not have audible signals.
The signals, which alert pedestrians to the silent e-scooters, will not be installed for at least two months.
Transport for London (TfL) said in May the e-scooters would have audible warning systems that could be used without riders adjusting their grip.
It now says that all e-scooters on the rental scheme are fitted with bells.
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According to an article in last Friday's Standard, you need a driving licence and insurance to use them in the UK.stonemuse said:SINGAPORE - Mandatory theory tests for e-scooter and electric bicycle riders will begin from the middle of this year, Senior Parliamentary Secretary for Transport Baey Yam Keng said on Friday (March 5).
This will ensure all riders of such motorised devices know the prevailing rules and codes of conduct, he said during the debate on his ministry's budget.
In another move to improve safety, Mr Baey said all bicycles used on public paths and roads will also be required to have at least one functioning handbrake, with effect from September.
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With the rental schemes, you have to dock them like the Santander bikes or you keep paying so they won't be cluttering the pavements. It's the bikes from Lime and the like that do the cluttering.Leeds_Addick said:I think they're brilliant, rented a few in Vienna and it made it so much easier to get around the city.
But I can see how dangerous they can be and the rental schemes will, unfortunately, result in them cluttering the pavement making it harder for wheelchairs and prams to get by on the pavement.
I'd love to get one for myself but I'm aware of annoying other people and if the police do pull you over (I've seen it happen a couple of times in London) I believe you get 6 points on your driving license.1 -
Some cyclists are dangerous - I'm not sure why that is so contentious an issue for you?Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.1 -
I don't understand why parents are buying these scooters for their children, last night I saw several kids riding them along the path past my house. Most of the properties have walls or hedges and so even when you slowly emerge from your drive, you may not see them whizzing past until is is too late. I suppose it will take a few of them to be seriously injured or killed before anything is done to stop this. These scooters are an accident waiting to happen.1
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Car drivers on their 'phones, breaking the speed limit, etc. are wankers. Cyclists on the pavement, jumping red lights, etc. are also wankers. Less likely to cause death and mayhem, true, but wankers none the less.Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.4 -
Crossing the lights on a green man up London will now become even more fun with the little scrotes whizzing through on these.0
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I'm 64, have never driven, always cycled.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Some cyclists are dangerous - I'm not sure why that is so contentious an issue for you?Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.
Some cyclists are dangerous, lots of car drivers are dangerous, pedestrians staring at their phones and crossing the road are dangerous.2 -
The government and police are on top of it.O-Randy-Hunt said:Crossing the lights on a green man up London will now become even more fun with the little scrotes whizzing through on these.
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Using your phone will become dangerous, highly likely the scooters will be used for ride past grabs like bikes /mopeds but with a silent approach.O-Randy-Hunt said:Crossing the lights on a green man up London will now become even more fun with the little scrotes whizzing through on these.
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I predict that E scooters will be made legal within the next 18 months.
Then I suspect it will be only a short time before only electric vehicles will be allowed in major Cities.
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Most of the people I see whizzing around kn them in Bexleyheath look about 15 and unsurprisingly they act like morons on them. They're weaving all over the road or up on the pavements. Incredibly dangerous and not dissimilar to the other kids you see doing wheelies on their bikes down the middle of the road. Its an accident waiting to happen unfortunately.ME14addick said:I don't understand why parents are buying these scooters for their children, last night I saw several kids riding them along the path past my house. Most of the properties have walls or hedges and so even when you slowly emerge from your drive, you may not see them whizzing past until is is too late. I suppose it will take a few of them to be seriously injured or killed before anything is done to stop this. These scooters are an accident waiting to happen.
Cars, bikes and scooters would all be fine if some people weren't arseholes the second they start using them.3 -
Have you got a link to this. As far as I can see lime say the scooters should be parked in designated bays but doesnt say anything about the user still being charged.AddicksAddict said:
With the rental schemes, you have to dock them like the Santander bikes or you keep paying so they won't be cluttering the pavements. It's the bikes from Lime and the like that do the cluttering.Leeds_Addick said:I think they're brilliant, rented a few in Vienna and it made it so much easier to get around the city.
But I can see how dangerous they can be and the rental schemes will, unfortunately, result in them cluttering the pavement making it harder for wheelchairs and prams to get by on the pavement.
I'd love to get one for myself but I'm aware of annoying other people and if the police do pull you over (I've seen it happen a couple of times in London) I believe you get 6 points on your driving license.
Looks like lime can fine the last rider if it gets reported that the scooter was left in the middle of a path but thats about it.
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On the run up to Christmas and lambing season finished Kent OB are clamping down hard on the wrong’uns. 😉
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At least he didnt have his dog with him.T_C_E said:On the run up to Christmas and lambing season finished Kent OB are clamping down hard on the wrong’uns. 😉
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Because they are only illegal to use on public roads. (A lot of places are deemed to be covered by that definition if the public has access to them, like a caravan site or a Tesco car park, for example)PrincessFiona said:So if the only legal way to use one is through a rented scheme, why are they available to be bought?
With apologies to anyone on here who uses on legally and safely, my experience of them so far seems to be 99% of the users are reckless and exactly the antithesis of the sort of person who would use one sensibly and safely.
So, you can trundle one around your own garden or whatever.
I guess there must be a whole host of things that can be bought and used at home but might get you into trouble in a public place, like knives and BB guns for example.0 -
Yes, I guess so, but many people have or access to the land to use one and I would have thought the majority are being used where (and how) they shouldn't be.cafcfan said:
Because they are only illegal to use on public roads. (A lot of places are deemed to be covered by that definition if the public has access to them, like a caravan site or a Tesco car park, for example)PrincessFiona said:So if the only legal way to use one is through a rented scheme, why are they available to be bought?
With apologies to anyone on here who uses on legally and safely, my experience of them so far seems to be 99% of the users are reckless and exactly the antithesis of the sort of person who would use one sensibly and safely.
So, you can trundle one around your own garden or whatever.
I guess there must be a whole host of things that can be bought and used at home but might get you into trouble in a public place, like knives and BB guns for example.
I understand the Met confiscate an average of 4 a day0 -
I work for the DVSA, we have a whole dept looking into micro mobility, and the legal/construction and use questions, however one thing is becoming clear some form of registration and insurance for both cyclists, and e-scooters, powered skate boards will be needed.
The question is how do we enforce it as most vehicle legislation starts once the vehicle weighs above 35kgs and can exceed 10kph, (Fast walk). It might have to be done at point of sale( we were told good luck with that given the internet), however most cycles
are obviously well below 35kgs.
Most cyclist are only too aware what they might look like when the exit from the underside of any motor vehicle. Its only a matter of time before e-scooters start becoming a KSI statistic, in significant numbers.
For all the rhetoric it myself and Met Police colleagues who have to talk to drivers who have had a serious collision, and believe me it effects us all. Especially the guys and girls in the white hats who have to deliver the death message.
Cycle and drive with consideration for ALL road users, from the pedestrian with their ear phone in, to the disabled who might not be quite so nimble, to the cyclist who jumps the lights, don't get in a fluster,
just make sure YOU are as safe as you can be.12 -
What does that sentence even mean? Your vehicles pay tax? Which tax? How do they pay this tax?addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.
Instead of highlighting one particular incident (did you work out why this woman aimed at you? And I admire your ninja like qualities in preventing you, your grandson and the buggy from being hit in this deliberate attempt to mow you down), how about answering the points I raised above, rather than ignoring them?0 -
Why only cyclists @hoof_it_up_to_benty ? Surely each mode of transport has it's fair share of idiots steering their particular vehicle?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Some cyclists are dangerous - I'm not sure why that is so contentious an issue for you?Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.0 - Sponsored links:
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@addick1956. I think @baldybonce replied that way because you used a debate about the merits or otherwise of e-scooters to launch a woefully inaccurate attack specifically on cyclists.addick1956 said:
That has got nothing to do with the issues I raised has it.Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.
It is a different argument, and I agree with you on that point. It is equally dangerous and so is drinking and drug taking and then driving.
I think you are being wilfully disingenuous by replying the way you have.0 -
Thanks.foresthillred said:
@addick1956. I think @baldybonce replied that way because you used a debate about the merits or otherwise of e-scooters to launch a woefully inaccurate attack specifically on cyclistsaddick1956 said:
That has got nothing to do with the issues I raised has it.Baldybonce said:
Blah blah blah cyclists. When i never see a car driver on their phone everyone will be safer.addick1956 said:
I totally agree. Later week in Lewisham I was crossing a controlled crossing .I was pushing our 9 month old grand son in a pushchair. Behind us a woman was pushing her child. A woman on a cycle decided to aim at us causing me to nearly stumble in the effort to get out of the way. She had cycled between cars to jump red lights. On her cycle were two seats for children one on the handle bars and one over the rear wheel.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I frequently see cyclists breaking the highway code in London because they're in a position to do so and know they won't get pulled up on it. It's a sizable minority but fortunately the transgressions don't normally end up in accidents. You see red lights being jumped all the time and a minority have no road sense.foresthillred said:
Speaking as a cyclist, pedestrian and car driver, I can't quite believe how much you have got wrong in such a short paragraph! It's full of lazy assumptions and factually incorrect statements. I credit you with decent spelling and punctuation though.addick1956 said:
Like most cyclists these morons believe the rules don't apply to them. No insurance, no rules, no crash helmets no registration plates. And no intention to pay for anything towards the highways they abuse.foresthillred said:I've seen a fair few souped up e-scooters lately. They look big and heavy and go much faster than the 14-15 mph they are supposed to be limited to. Just yesterday in Burgess Park, Southwark, I saw two travelling close to 30mph on crowded paths, with toddlers and dogs dotted all around. Some cyclists can be as bad, but they are unlikely to travel consistently at 25mph+ and don't have anywhere near the weight these scooters do. I can see a small child being killed by one before long.
The scooter itself isn't the problem, much the same with bikes and motor vehicles, it's the idiots on/in them. Unfortunately, these things are idiot magnets!
1) People are not morons because they're cyclists, pedestrians or scooter riders. They are morons because they are morons. Many of these people are also drivers. Do they automatically stop being morons just because they are using four wheels instead of two?
2) Most cyclists do follow the rules of the road to a large degree. As with careless/dangerous drivers, we only notice the ones who break the rules and endanger others, though at least they aren't travelling in at least a ton of metal that can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
Unless you keep rigorously to the speed limit at all times, know the Highway Code inside out, always wear your seat belt, check your mirrors before making any manoeuvre (including opening your door to get out of the car), never check your phone while driving (even when queuing), drive with both hands on the steering wheel at all times, etc.............. then you are breaking the rules as much as any of these "moronic" cyclists. Lets face it, at times, we can all be morons when on the road. It's just a question of degrees, and the likely consequences.
3) Many cyclists are insured. Mine is through London Cycling Campaign membership. other cycle organisations such as Cycle UK also insure members, and individuals can get their own insurance privately too. It isn't a legal requirement for a cyclist to be insured, quite possibly because the percentage of injuries to others caused by a cyclist is absolutely minimal.
4) I always wear a helmet on the road. Others don't, but it isn't a legal requirement. Again, by not wearing a helmet, a cyclist is not going to harm others, only be more at risk themselves.
5) Registration plates are not a legal requirement for cyclists, much in the same way as they aren't for pedestrians, who are equally likely to be involved in/cause an accident on the road by doing things like crossing without looking.
6) Every cyclist, e-scooter rider, pedestrian, driver, and anyone else who pays income tax, pays towards the upkeep of the roads. I guess you're thinking of Road Tax, which was abolished in the 1930s and was subsequently superseded by a vehicle tax based on emissions. I'm sure you will agree that cyclists don't produce polluting emissions unless they have recently consumed a dodgy takeaway.
I won't even get started on the health and environmental benefits of cycling, walking, and to a lesser degree, scooting. If you ever decide to take up cycling, I'm a qualified instructor and will offer you a Charlton supporter discount as well as a life changing experience.
The problem with the London road network is it's not really set up for motorists and cyclists to share the same space.
What the impact of e-scooters will be remains to be seen.
This is common with cyclists who know that if they stop they have to use more energy to move off again.
Our vehicles are registered and so pay tax also. Cyclists aren't and e scooters are even worse.
When cyclists follow the rules and also stop cycling up the inside of vehicles by the keeb etc everyone will be safer.
It is a different argument, and I agree with you on that point. It is equally dangerous and so is drinking and drug taking and then driving.
I think you are being wilfully disingenuous by replying the way you have.
yep, that’s about it.
I’m in Poole at the moment where the rental of e scooters is a thing. I’ll find out more
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My great nephew has just been given an e-scooter for his 9th birthday.
Given my very painful experience with his hoverboard, everyone is very keen on me trying it out,1 -
I hope he will be riding it on private land.cafcfan said:My great nephew has just been given an e-scooter for his 9th birthday.
Given my very painful experience with his hoverboard, everyone is very keen on me trying it out,0 -
If the shoe fits...Showmetheway2gohome said:Sounds like we’re all wankers to me then0 -
It’s possible I mis-interpreted the ‘marked bays’ bit in the Evening Standard article I read.O-Randy-Hunt said:
Have you got a link to this. As far as I can see lime say the scooters should be parked in designated bays but doesnt say anything about the user still being charged.AddicksAddict said:
With the rental schemes, you have to dock them like the Santander bikes or you keep paying so they won't be cluttering the pavements. It's the bikes from Lime and the like that do the cluttering.Leeds_Addick said:I think they're brilliant, rented a few in Vienna and it made it so much easier to get around the city.
But I can see how dangerous they can be and the rental schemes will, unfortunately, result in them cluttering the pavement making it harder for wheelchairs and prams to get by on the pavement.
I'd love to get one for myself but I'm aware of annoying other people and if the police do pull you over (I've seen it happen a couple of times in London) I believe you get 6 points on your driving license.
Looks like lime can fine the last rider if it gets reported that the scooter was left in the middle of a path but thats about it.0 -
Had one of these overtake me on my bike the other day, and I felt ashamed, assuming it was my fitness as it was the first time I'd cycled in a while.
Looked down at my speedometer, I was going at 22mph... And he didn't slowly go past me, zipped past.0 -
Apparently they can be de-restricted by the yoof. I recently saw one doing about 30 with two young boys on hotly persued by the Police.Huskaris said:Had one of these overtake me on my bike the other day, and I felt ashamed, assuming it was my fitness as it was the first time I'd cycled in a while.
Looked down at my speedometer, I was going at 22mph... And he didn't slowly go past me, zipped past.3 -
Well, he's in Northern Ireland. There might be different laws - there often are. Frankly, I doubt he'll stick to his own lands. He's already been zooming around a caravan park.ME14addick said:
I hope he will be riding it on private land.cafcfan said:My great nephew has just been given an e-scooter for his 9th birthday.
Given my very painful experience with his hoverboard, everyone is very keen on me trying it out,
I'm pretty sure he'll be using the scooter to visit his mate which will involve a 200 yards or so dash along a back road. But then he's also out on his horse on the same road and in that case you are reliant upon a walnut-sized brain to understand what is going on rather than a human one. And people ride on those things!? The encephalization quotient of a horse is about 0.78, even a domestic cat's is 1.0; whereas a human's is 7.8*.
* A lot less for Millwall supporters obviously.
But then there's the general rule of thumb about NI: they are happy to do anything as long as it is illegal and/or dangerous. Sadly this is an all too typical incident https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ballycastle-tractor-crash-tragedy-miracle-as-five-year-old-hannah-smyth-returns-home-after-three-months-in-hospital-39450514.html
The home of potcheen and red diesel is not going to care about e-scooter legislation.
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