One of the criteria for deciding in which tier an area should be placed, is the ability of the NHS to cope. There is serious pressure on most of the Kent hospitals.
Kent is the 6th most densely populated county in England and is paying a high price for the massive amount of house building which has taken place in recent years. Hospital capacity hasn't matched the population growth.
Swale has seen a huge amount of development and the main hospital for that area is in Medway, which has also seen a huge growth in population. If there is pressure on Medway Maritime Hospital, the hospitals in neighbouring districts have to take patients that Medway can't deal with. This affects Darent Valley and Maidstone hospitals.
Maidstone's population is growing very fast and has a relatively high infection rate. Maidstone Hospital is part of the Maidstone & Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust. If Maidstone can't cope, Pembury Hospital comes under pressure, so that is how Tunbridge Wells is also affected by higher rates elsewhere in the county.
The East Kent Hospitals also have the pressure of high rates in Thanet. There has been criticism this week about the infection controls of some of the East Kent hospitals.
Getting people to adhere to the rules is not helped by so many Kent MPs questioning the need for the whole county to be put in Tier 3. They need to look at the bigger picture rather than their own area.
The tiers may be reassessed on 16th December, but I suspect that areas now in Tier 2 will move up to Tier 3, with people seemingly wanting to push the boundaries as much as they can. This is a public health crisis and it needs everyone to play their part, or for some, this may well be their last Christmas.
The population of Hartlepool is 93,000 & is also in tier 3, population has nothing to do with the high rate of covid. Londons population is 9,304,000 & the covid rate is lower than these areas. Anyway lets leave that to the covid thread. It is good for lower league clubs & their fans that an effort is being made to get fans into the stadiums. Without fans in grounds for lower/non league clubs this may well be their last Christmas.
If population growth outstrips the ability of the hospitals to cope with that increase, then population IS very relevant.
Following the general chat on here, elsewhere and with friends, it is quite showing how many people are generally outraged at others who break rules and guidelines until it comes to a rule or guideline they wish to break themselves (including myself)!
Before lockdown i missed out on a trip I’d been looking forward to for six months because London had been placed in Tier 2, even though the rate in Bexley at the time was lower than many Tier 1 areas.
Nothing is perfect or ideal with all this, there’ll always be winners and losers when restrictions are placed. The rigmarole of 2,000 getting into and out of the game next week will be like breaking into Fort Knox in comparison to 2,000 going shopping at Bluewater or Lakeside. We just have to remember the underlying reason behind it all and be hopeful this will impact us for just a short period in time.
I mentioned many months ago in the first lockdown the behaviour of two of immediate neighbours with the comings and going’s of visitors like there was no issue. Both are now strictly adhering to the correct procedures and are rarely seen outside their houses with no one going in had that been the case the first time around maybe Swale wouldn’t have the problems it now has. I’m also pretty sure opening the caravan sites for everyone to pop down for the weekend has hardly helped and as mentioned the prisons down here are at breaking point I speak to several officers daily who collect their children from school and they look f***** both men and women. It’s the “ they don’t mean me” attitude across all walks of life that carry on regardless until it bites them on the arse.
Following the general chat on here, elsewhere and with friends, it is quite showing how many people are generally outraged at others who break rules and guidelines until it comes to a rule or guideline they wish to break themselves (including myself)!
Before lockdown i missed out on a trip I’d been looking forward to for six months because London had been placed in Tier 2, even though the rate in Bexley at the time was lower than many Tier 1 areas.
Nothing is perfect or ideal with all this, there’ll always be winners and losers when restrictions are placed. The rigmarole of 2,000 getting into and out of the game next week will be like breaking into Fort Knox in comparison to 2,000 going shopping at Bluewater or Lakeside. We just have to remember the underlying reason behind it all and be hopeful this will impact us for just a short period in time.
If the government started breaking down Kent into different districts as some would like there would be an equal argument for Bexley to go into tier three as it’s above the England average, making things even more complicated.
I cannot understand why Bexley (and similar high London areas) is not in tier 3, just because it makes it complicated is a complete and utter load of political tosh, surely people health is the key issue not the complexity of the arrangements, if you want to make it easy then you put the whole of London into tier 3 until all area are safe enough to go into tier 2, there you go a simple uncomplicated answer to this very complicated question.
I don’t think most people go around thinking about what council area they are currently in and in London more than Kent people move frequently between boroughs. The case rate in Bexley, Havering and Barking & Dagenham isn’t high enough to justify dragging the whole of London into tier three - whereas the Kent-wide picture is high enough to justify the whole of Kent being in it. Much cleaner for messaging - hard on TW, etc.
Apologise but I got to disagree, Dartford is roughly the same infection rate as Bexley, Havering plus Barking and Dagenham, however approximately Medway and down to the coast is higher than the area from Medway up to the M25 so using your analogue why should such a large area be sacrificed for ease of presenting a “cleaner picture”, it just does not make sense to me, I actually agree that Dartford should be in tier 3, however what I do strongly disagree with is that areas like Bexley etc are in tier 2 when they are at the same level. In my humble opinion the until those areas come down to suitable level then the whole of London should for the ‘cleaner message” should be in tier 3.
I know I’m not going to win this discussion but to use the phrases of “cleaner message” and “complexity” is just an easy way of saying your are thick stupid twat who don’t understand the subject. I had my say, so I will shut up now, and go back to being a yokel who can’t think for himself and let those who are charge make decisions that suit there own agenda.
Fortunately, local council leaders have no say in the decisions about tiers and not even local public health directors are getting an input, but communication of even basic messages to the general population is not straightforward and if you are even discussing it then you are not the problem in that regard.
In my opinion, the club deserve credit for moving quickly to allow fans in so soon after the end of the lockdown period. Of course they would have had some idea on how they would go about it but there were substantial uncertainties like how many fans would be allowed under Government rules, what the tier restrictions would be, and so on.
Of course they can tweak these initial arrangements if necessary and I would certainly hope they find a way to allow family groups to attend together in future, and also to allow for those successful in the ballot who cannot attend to still receive CAFC cash and for the club to make that ticket available to others.
Generally, I think the points system works well, allowing more regular home and away fans to get priority for restricted tickets for attractive cup ties and away matches. However, I think it would be wrong to use the points system to determine Covid period ticket allocation. With only 2,000 fans allowed in, there would be every chance that pretty much the same people would get tickets every time, leaving the other 3,000 ST holders without the opportunity to see any games at all. That, to me, would be unfair and I think the rotation approach is reasonable under the circumstances.
I totally get all the precautionary stuff, but why can't a spare ticket be put back into a waiting-list pool ? Yes, this would require email trickery and hoop jumping on a big scale, but If I win the ballot and can't go - I don't want an empty seat when there are others desperate to attend.
I haven’t bought a season ticket for this year initially because of ownership issues and then because I feared I wouldn’t see a game.
Although there may be all sorts of problems with the current approach, I am going to look into getting a season ticket right now.
I wouldn't bother, football will be off again early jan when we are back in lockdown.
Any season ticket holders that are moaning, just be glad you're in the hat. See you there next season when hopefully things are looking a lot better for walk ups.
Me and my two sons all live in Tier 2 but 250 miles away from The Valley. Train ? - not a chance in these times, car? - possible for a Saturday game but not for midweek.
So we have three STs between us and on that basis we would on average be almost guaranteed at least one ticket for every game. But we won't be going - way too much of a risk at this point in time, and I want to go when there's 20,000 plus in The Valley, not 2,000 spread all over the place, and to be able to sit in our seats.
On that basis, an opt-out option would give three more tickets (that's just us) in the ballot every match for those who can and are prepared to attend. Not sure how easy that would be but if possible then it should be done.
I’m a season ticket holder living in Manchester (Tier 3) and obviously won’t be going to Wednesdays game. There should be either an opt out option or the ability to transfer a ticket to another season ticket holder.
Me and my two sons all live in Tier 2 but 250 miles away from The Valley. Train ? - not a chance in these times, car? - possible for a Saturday game but not for midweek.
So we have three STs between us and on that basis we would on average be almost guaranteed at least one ticket for every game. But we won't be going - way too much of a risk at this point in time, and I want to go when there's 20,000 plus in The Valley, not 2,000 spread all over the place, and to be able to sit in our seats.
On that basis, an opt-out option would give three more tickets (that's just us) in the ballot every match for those who can and are prepared to attend. Not sure how easy that would be but if possible then it should be done.
I agree entirely, the only problem for this weeks fixtures is the short notice. The problem also is people who don't get a ticket through the ballot have limited time to spend CAFC CASH on the stream & then receive a code from the club. Maybe somebody from @castrust can suggest these ideas to the club.
Me and my two sons all live in Tier 2 but 250 miles away from The Valley. Train ? - not a chance in these times, car? - possible for a Saturday game but not for midweek.
So we have three STs between us and on that basis we would on average be almost guaranteed at least one ticket for every game. But we won't be going - way too much of a risk at this point in time, and I want to go when there's 20,000 plus in The Valley, not 2,000 spread all over the place, and to be able to sit in our seats.
On that basis, an opt-out option would give three more tickets (that's just us) in the ballot every match for those who can and are prepared to attend. Not sure how easy that would be but if possible then it should be done.
You've summarised your situation much more clearly than I did, Bob.
I honestly don't enjoy criticising our club but as I stated last night, surely this could have been planned weeks ago & then tweaked according to the restrictions announced a couple of days ago.
An opt out option as several Lifers have suggested hits the nail on the head. ie those who are "chosen" to attend and are able to will be there, so maximising attendance numbers, whilst those who will find it problematical will be in the hat next time AND retain the cost of their ticket to potentially spend on VP.
Hopefully, with 10 days until the next home match, the system will be revamped in line with inevitable feedback and a detailed piece on the OS will be put up by next weekend at the latest.
If people were genuinely concerned about the safety of going to live football matches (for health reasons etc) then I'm sure not sure why they renewed, as the virus was never likely to go away quickly.
Cannot see the point of buying a season ticket when you are likely to only go to about 3 games.
I haven’t bought a season ticket for this year initially because of ownership issues and then because I feared I wouldn’t see a game.
Although there may be all sorts of problems with the current approach, I am going to look into getting a season ticket right now.
I wouldn't bother, football will be off again early jan when we are back in lockdown.
Any season ticket holders that are moaning, just be glad you're in the hat. See you there next season when hopefully things are looking a lot better for walk ups.
Just be glad ! We have no choice and for sum of us over 70 it is not on. I need a sick note from my doctor to be excused believe it or not. And my Charlton cash won't be available to stream it so I must pay cash. Also the club will then se my seat again once I say I can't go. So they get 3 dibs on my seat. If I don't tell them I can't ho they assume I went. So to save money I have paid not to see a game ! What is lucky about that mate.
Nobody is selling your seat, get a docs note like you say and you're all good, but its unfortunate for sure.
Many of us would love to go and have zero chance this season, admittedly its on us for not deciding to buy a ST during a global pandemic.
Im in Bexley, a ST holder ,so will get a tkt for at least one of the next 3 home games. However i cant see the experience being that enjoyable,sitting on ones own, wearing the mask for potentially 3 and half hours, no refreshments. Its not just about the football, its the meeting mates, having a beer etc I appreciate it is a bit rushed for wed, but there is 10 days before the next one, surely the club can ask ST holders to opt in or opt out.Given the choice I'd opt out as the situation currently stands and go back when the valley can operate as per norm. If it means not seeing a live game this season so be it. A bit peeved they will keep my cash if I choose not to attend, I'd prefer the tkt to be resold and go to a fan that is desperate to be there.
Bloody hell, we really do have some fans who expect absolute perfection in the trickiest of circumstances, whilst those at the club are doing their best just to ensure that we can have fans back in the ground.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
Me and my two sons all live in Tier 2 but 250 miles away from The Valley. Train ? - not a chance in these times, car? - possible for a Saturday game but not for midweek.
So we have three STs between us and on that basis we would on average be almost guaranteed at least one ticket for every game. But we won't be going - way too much of a risk at this point in time, and I want to go when there's 20,000 plus in The Valley, not 2,000 spread all over the place, and to be able to sit in our seats.
On that basis, an opt-out option would give three more tickets (that's just us) in the ballot every match for those who can and are prepared to attend. Not sure how easy that would be but if possible then it should be done.
You've summarised your situation much more clearly than I did, Bob.
I honestly don't enjoy criticising our club but as I stated last night, surely this could have been planned weeks ago & then tweaked according to the restrictions announced a couple of days ago.
An opt out option as several Lifers have suggested hits the nail on the head. ie those who are "chosen" to attend and are able to will be there, so maximising attendance numbers, whilst those who will find it problematical will be in the hat next time AND retain the cost of their ticket to potentially spend on VP.
Hopefully, with 10 days until the next home match, the system will be revamped in line with inevitable feedback and a detailed piece on the OS will be put up by next weekend at the latest.
I agree....The club moved this game too hastily as well...
I am over 70 and diabetic . I can't withdraw from the draw unless I produce a doctor's letter to prove shielding. I wasn't sent one and many others expecting one didn't either . The club know my age and still insist I need to prove I am vulnerable. The Chief Medical Officer has consistently warned over 70's that they are vulnerable and Covid is dangerous to people with underlying conditions. I have sent the club photos of my medications . I feel utterly dejected by the club's attitude.. I wonder if Sandgaard approved this approach. Even RD was not this cynical.
I backed the club when it needed it....now it just takes the piss out of me and tells me if drawn a d I don't go I must pay cash to stream the game. Oh and they can re sell the seat if I tell them I can't go.If I say nothing they assume I went. Bloody cheek.
Your'e not over 70 and diabetic by any chance are you?
One good thing is that if i do get picked i won't have to hear you moaning.
Bloody hell, we really do have some fans who expect absolute perfection in the trickiest of circumstances, whilst those at the club are doing their best just to ensure that we can have fans back in the ground.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
Are you someone who has been living on a other planet or did you just fail to understand why I wrote that...or are you a WUM.
YOU A D THE CLUB KNOW FULL WELL WHAT UNDERLYING CONDITIONS CAN DO TO OVER 70'S WHO GET COVID.
I don't seek perfection. I expect consideration. Clearly you lack any of that or any sense.
But you've said you can be excluded from being picked by getting a docs note. The other option is the club ban all over 70s and piss off even more people.
Bloody hell, we really do have some fans who expect absolute perfection in the trickiest of circumstances, whilst those at the club are doing their best just to ensure that we can have fans back in the ground.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
It might be only 48 hours since the decision was made to allow a small return for spectators but the FA Prem and the EFL have been asking clubs to plan for this for months (trust me, I know!).
I'm not criticising the club and am not incandescent with rage - but an opt-out would allow 2,000 people to actually be there. I couldn't give a toss about not getting CAFC cash if I get a ticket in the ballot and I will pay for the live stream as well.
An opt-out might not be possible for the first game but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to get it in place for the games that follow.
If we can only have 2,000 at the game then I want 2,000 at the game.
I agree with that @bobmunro although it has to be total - you opt out either for the season, or the all clear has been announced. We were given that option by the New England Patriots this year, but you had to elect to defer the full season, even if fans were allowed back. No questions about why, you were either in or out.
Bloody hell, we really do have some fans who expect absolute perfection in the trickiest of circumstances, whilst those at the club are doing their best just to ensure that we can have fans back in the ground.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
Are you someone who has been living on a other planet or did you just fail to understand why I wrote that...or are you a WUM.
YOU A D THE CLUB KNOW FULL WELL WHAT UNDERLYING CONDITIONS CAN DO TO OVER 70'S WHO GET COVID.
I don't seek perfection. I expect consideration. Clearly you lack any of that or any sense.
Ha ok - if you say so. You’ve just demonstrated again the sense of over-reaction that is going on.
Maybe you will at some point get the opt out option, or whatever it is you’re looking for.
My point is that the club should be cut some slack with the faux outrage being thrown their way when they’re clearly doing their best to find a solution that works at incredibly short notice.
Bloody hell, we really do have some fans who expect absolute perfection in the trickiest of circumstances, whilst those at the club are doing their best just to ensure that we can have fans back in the ground.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
It might be only 48 hours since the decision was made to allow a small return for spectators but the FA Prem and the EFL have been asking clubs to plan for this for months (trust me, I know!).
I'm not criticising the club and am not incandescent with rage - but an opt-out would allow 2,000 people to actually be there. I couldn't give a toss about not getting CAFC cash if I get a ticket in the ballot and I will pay for the live stream as well.
An opt-out might not be possible for the first game but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to get it in place for the games that follow.
If we can only have 2,000 at the game then I want 2,000 at the game.
Whilst the club has been planning - they’ve not been given a great deal of notice of the following:
- How the tier system will work - What counties/boroughs will be Tier 2/3, and what that even means - How many fans permitted
It’s such a fluid situation, and I do expect an opt out option will come. The club does listen to its fans on things like this.
Or maybe we can bring Roland back and he’ll fix it as someone suggested earlier.....
I can safely say that if I'm 'lucky' to be awarded a ticket in Monday's ballot I won't be going on Wednesday.
I'm fortunate enough to live in an area that has consistently had low infection rates (until the last couple of weeks North Norfolk has been one of the best in the country) and I've barely travelled out of the area since the first lockdown.
I am not shielding officially but we've been doing all we can to protect my wife's parents, who have been. I won't do anything to compromise their health and so a 250-mile, 6-hour round trip for a game of football probably isn't the best thing to do for their sakes.
If I have a ticket for Wednesday it'll mean an empty seat in the ground that someone else could have been in a position to take ... and it'll effectively cost me extra to watch the stream as I won't get the benefit of my CAFC Cash for the match and I won't be able to provide documentary evidence of my reasons for not travelling.
Hopefully the situation will improve in the coming months and I'll feel happier returning to the home of (shite and disappointing) football, The Valley.
Comments
Of course they can tweak these initial arrangements if necessary and I would certainly hope they find a way to allow family groups to attend together in future, and also to allow for those successful in the ballot who cannot attend to still receive CAFC cash and for the club to make that ticket available to others.
Generally, I think the points system works well, allowing more regular home and away fans to get priority for restricted tickets for attractive cup ties and away matches. However, I think it would be wrong to use the points system to determine Covid period ticket allocation. With only 2,000 fans allowed in, there would be every chance that pretty much the same people would get tickets every time, leaving the other 3,000 ST holders without the opportunity to see any games at all. That, to me, would be unfair and I think the rotation approach is reasonable under the circumstances.
Yes, this would require email trickery and hoop jumping on a big scale, but If I win the ballot and can't go - I don't want an empty seat when there are others desperate to attend.
Any season ticket holders that are moaning, just be glad you're in the hat. See you there next season when hopefully things are looking a lot better for walk ups.
The problem also is people who don't get a ticket through the ballot have limited time to spend CAFC CASH on the stream & then receive a code from the club.
Maybe somebody from @castrust can suggest these ideas to the club.
I honestly don't enjoy criticising our club but as I stated last night, surely this could have been planned weeks ago & then tweaked according to the restrictions announced a couple of days ago.
An opt out option as several Lifers have suggested hits the nail on the head. ie those who are "chosen" to attend and are able to will be there, so maximising attendance numbers, whilst those who will find it problematical will be in the hat next time AND retain the cost of their ticket to potentially spend on VP.
Hopefully, with 10 days until the next home match, the system will be revamped in line with inevitable feedback and a detailed piece on the OS will be put up by next weekend at the latest.
Many of us would love to go and have zero chance this season, admittedly its on us for not deciding to buy a ST during a global pandemic.
Give this man a promote.
I appreciate it is a bit rushed for wed, but there is 10 days before the next one, surely the club can ask ST holders to opt in or opt out.Given the choice I'd opt out as the situation currently stands and go back when the valley can operate as per norm. If it means not seeing a live game this season so be it. A bit peeved they will keep my cash if I choose not to attend, I'd prefer the tkt to be resold and go to a fan that is desperate to be there.
I’m reading things like “incandescent with rage” and “the club is taking the piss”.
Surely it has to cross people’s minds that after all the lobbying to get fans back, clubs have to be as ‘by the book’ and as in line with government rules as possible. If they are not, then we risk going straight back into a situation where fans will be banned again.
Actually lost for words at how demanding some people are being towards the club on this. It’s only been 48 hours since the new tier information came out - show some patience.
They are never going to be able to please everyone.
One good thing is that if i do get picked i won't have to hear you moaning.
Maybe you will at some point get the opt out option, or whatever it is you’re looking for.
- How the tier system will work
- What counties/boroughs will be Tier 2/3, and what that even means
- How many fans permitted
It’s such a fluid situation, and I do expect an opt out option will come. The club does listen to its fans on things like this.
Or maybe we can bring Roland back and he’ll fix it as someone suggested earlier.....
I'm fortunate enough to live in an area that has consistently had low infection rates (until the last couple of weeks North Norfolk has been one of the best in the country) and I've barely travelled out of the area since the first lockdown.
I am not shielding officially but we've been doing all we can to protect my wife's parents, who have been. I won't do anything to compromise their health and so a 250-mile, 6-hour round trip for a game of football probably isn't the best thing to do for their sakes.
If I have a ticket for Wednesday it'll mean an empty seat in the ground that someone else could have been in a position to take ... and it'll effectively cost me extra to watch the stream as I won't get the benefit of my CAFC Cash for the match and I won't be able to provide documentary evidence of my reasons for not travelling.
Hopefully the situation will improve in the coming months and I'll feel happier returning to the home of (shite and disappointing) football, The Valley.