I’m not sure I buy into the theory that TS, as an astute and very successful businessman was so nieve as to not look or at least have people look at the finances of CAFC and football in general in league one and how he wanted to progress. We’d have to assume he was an idiot. I’m not saying you’re wrong and that he won’t be around for more than a couple of years because who knows. I just don’t buy into those particular reasons and if I’m wrong and it’s true that he’s a financial idiot then we’re bang in trouble.
I don’t think it’s that. I think, like all our recent owners, he had overestimated his own capacity to introduce above average performance and to do it quickly. He also appointed the wrong people (Roddy and Adkins) at SL and failed to address the inadequacy of the existing non-football management, which you can see playing out in multiple minor but poor decisions. We will only see a fraction of them.
If you look at the club’s historic commercial performance and compare it with others it’s easy to assume that it is has been due to poor management, even in the PL, whereas it’s more likely IMO to be structural based on geography and over performance in generating crowds.
There is very little potential for meaningful commercial growth in L1 and ditto international support, so the operating losses mount up.
He seemed to think that the club could stand on its actual and potential support in Greenwich and Bexley to fill The Valley, whereas London is more complicated than that and we all know that history and identity links the club strongly with Kent and the wider South East too. The current ticket dumping is not going to change things significantly, even if you view it as a positive. Change is incremental and requires hard graft.
I’m not saying TS hasn’t or can’t learn about these things, or that he hasn’t done good things too, just that many of his initial assumptions were over optimistic and that the same will be true if he gets to the Championship - not because he is stupid or hasn’t looked at the numbers, but because he doesn’t understand the background well enough.
The problem is, it's football finances though. Airman often gives a good account of how it all works out, I'm sure Sandgaard can fund it at a base level BUT it's those football industry variables that are the problem.
Sacking managers before the half way point of a season, watching expensive loan and perm signings flop etc.
That happens over a couple of seasons and you're sitting around wondering if it's worth it and are you just chucking millions into a black hole.
The difference between what the historic losses are and what you believe you can change them to is the key.
Any Tom who's dick is Harry can look at the historic accounts and most people can get a decent idea of how much its loosing. Most people have ideas, realistic or other wise, about how they would increase revenue or reduce costs. You see it on here all the time. Buy x amount of players for y and sell one for z and repeat, fill the Valley, get a sponsorship deal etc etc.
People who are as successful as Thomas, and Roland, will think they can do it better. Do it differently. Maybe Thomas can, most likely he can't, but he will think he can. He is almost certainly used to getting his own way and it may have come as a bit of a shock how this season has gone but he also needs to understand if his demands are realistic.
Buy good players and play good football, sell more tickets make more commercial income etc is a lot harder that it sounds, else everyone would be doing it.
I’m not sure I buy into the theory that TS, as an astute and very successful businessman was so nieve as to not look or at least have people look at the finances of CAFC and football in general in league one and how he wanted to progress. We’d have to assume he was an idiot. I’m not saying you’re wrong and that he won’t be around for more than a couple of years because who knows. I just don’t buy into those particular reasons and if I’m wrong and it’s true that he’s a financial idiot then we’re bang in trouble.
I agree with you entirely that he's not an idiot. The fact that he has developed a multi million pound medical equipment business is testament to that. But like a lot of successful business people from other types of business they believe they can run a football club in a similar way. Football is unlike any other industry in as much as making money is concerned. I really hope I'm wrong as I would love him to stay here for years and be a success. But my gut instinct is that he will be gone within three years as he realises how much success will cost him.
Agree with this. I also think he'll simply get bored.
I’m not sure I buy into the theory that TS, as an astute and very successful businessman was so nieve as to not look or at least have people look at the finances of CAFC and football in general in league one and how he wanted to progress. We’d have to assume he was an idiot. I’m not saying you’re wrong and that he won’t be around for more than a couple of years because who knows. I just don’t buy into those particular reasons and if I’m wrong and it’s true that he’s a financial idiot then we’re bang in trouble.
I don’t think it’s that. I think, like all our recent owners, he had overestimated his own capacity to introduce above average performance and to do it quickly. He also appointed the wrong people (Roddy and Adkins) at SL and failed to address the inadequacy of the existing non-football management, which you can see playing out in multiple minor but poor decisions. We will only see a fraction of them.
If you look at the club’s historic commercial performance and compare it with others it’s easy to assume that it is has been due to poor management, even in the PL, whereas it’s more likely IMO to be structural based on geography and over performance in generating crowds.
There is very little potential for meaningful commercial growth in L1 and ditto international support, so the operating losses mount up.
He seemed to think that the club could stand on its actual and potential support in Greenwich and Bexley to fill The Valley, whereas London is more complicated than that and we all know that history and identity links the club strongly with Kent and the wider South East too. The current ticket dumping is not going to change things significantly, even if you view it as a positive. Change is incremental and requires hard graft.
I’m not saying TS hasn’t or can’t learn about these things, or that he hasn’t done good things too, just that many of his initial assumptions were over optimistic and that the same will be true if he gets to the Championship - not because he is stupid or hasn’t looked at the numbers, but because he doesn’t understand the background well enough.
One thing that would help Thomas would be to have the Fan Led Review recommendations made law, this year. Ideally this half year.
Y’all written to your MPs yet, asking for them to make sure it happens?
If you haven't got round to writing to your MP yet here is a link to a template letter that you might wish to use or adapt. It shouldn't take you more than ten minutes and Conservative MPs are more likely to take notice and support the proposals if they can see that there are votes in it. The article also records some of the responses received so far:
Seriously, why do think some TS is not going to be around long ?
I think the cost of running a football club is going to be far more than he imagined it would be. His overall ambition was to take Charlton into the premier league and European football. He is struggling with the budget he has set to even get us out of league one.
Agreed. He will need additional investors to get us to the PL.
Britain has the same issues in Olympic sports. Lottery money transformed it during the period 1998/2021. But it enables employment and creation of new jobs eg Peformance Directors , Head of Olympic Programmes etc. Then the coaches voice gets watered down. The network of complicated structures obscures what actually matters in terms of achieving and sustaining success. Focus on improving coaching. It is rarely a top priority.
great post .. and look (e.g.) at the England cricket squad, 16 players and about 50 travelling coaches, analysts, advisers, nutritionists, masseurs, medics and other various assorted hangers on .. too much information chaps, just get out there and play the game
on the subject of lottery money, has it made life too easy for the beneficiaries ? .. for how long can they get away with sub standard performances and still stay on the lottery payroll ?
Seriously, why do think some TS is not going to be around long ?
I think the cost of running a football club is going to be far more than he imagined it would be. His overall ambition was to take Charlton into the premier league and European football. He is struggling with the budget he has set to even get us out of league one.
Agreed. He will need additional investors to get us to the PL.
Yes, this is where I see it going ... unless Sandgaard is inclined to cut and run.
From another thread - and posted in October.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
We have a collection of average League 1 players, most of whom are underperforming. Add to that some kids who aren't good enough and we find our natural level ... bottom half of the table. Why would anyone expect anything different?
Sandgaard needs to start again. His first year has been shambolic.
He needs to clear out all of his misplaced appointments, take the hit to his pocket and do it properly next time. That means recruiting proper football people, not David Brent types who operate with spreadsheets and laser pointers.
And, if Sandgaard doesn't have the money to do that ... remembering that getting promotion out of League 1 was probably the easy bit of his foolishly-stated five-year plan ... then he needs to find some investor partners, or sell up to someone who knows what they are doing and who has the dosh to do it.
Don't forget that we still have the legacy of ground and training ground ownership to deal with. Fucking shambles.
I’m not sure I buy into the theory that TS, as an astute and very successful businessman was so nieve as to not look or at least have people look at the finances of CAFC and football in general in league one and how he wanted to progress. We’d have to assume he was an idiot. I’m not saying you’re wrong and that he won’t be around for more than a couple of years because who knows. I just don’t buy into those particular reasons and if I’m wrong and it’s true that he’s a financial idiot then we’re bang in trouble.
He seemed to think that the club could stand on its actual and potential support in Greenwich and Bexley to fill The Valley, whereas London is more complicated than that and we all know that history and identity links the club strongly with Kent and the wider South East too. The current ticket dumping is not going to change things significantly, even if you view it as a positive.
Its almost like TS thought to himself "RD was a shit owner, Im going to be a good one. Im actually a football fan and understand it, so if I just do the standard things a good owner would do, a club like Charlton will just get promoted by default". Like you say the nuances of Charlton Athletic (and club ownership in general) seem to be where he's faltered this season.
I’m not sure I buy into the theory that TS, as an astute and very successful businessman was so nieve as to not look or at least have people look at the finances of CAFC and football in general in league one and how he wanted to progress. We’d have to assume he was an idiot. I’m not saying you’re wrong and that he won’t be around for more than a couple of years because who knows. I just don’t buy into those particular reasons and if I’m wrong and it’s true that he’s a financial idiot then we’re bang in trouble.
He seemed to think that the club could stand on its actual and potential support in Greenwich and Bexley to fill The Valley, whereas London is more complicated than that and we all know that history and identity links the club strongly with Kent and the wider South East too. The current ticket dumping is not going to change things significantly, even if you view it as a positive.
Its almost like TS thought to himself "RD was a shit owner, Im going to be a good one. Im actually a football fan and understand it, so if I just do the standard things a good owner would do, a club like Charlton will just get promoted by default". Like you say the nuances of Charlton Athletic (and club ownership in general) seem to be where he's faltered this season.
Exactly the same as Roland, the spivs and no doubt Murray felt as well. Maybe "football fan" is stretching it in some cases.
Has there been an update to TS’ positive hinting about imminent Cat 1 academy status? I presumed Roddy’s retention as a consultant is to see that through but I can’t find a thread or even any info following TS’ interview on the matter.
It seems fairly clear to me from the noises and actions, including not buying the freeholds, approach to buying, recent personnel changes, identifying filling the ground as a key objective; that TS is intending to bring success by obtaining and developing new talent over big money signings, and this has the potential to be an economical approach.
How long that takes and whether this can actually be achieved in League 1 nowadays, let alone the Championship remains to be seen. As we all know this is a zero sum game and will depend a lot on the people behind the scenes, this is where the League is won with this approach, being better than those at our competitors. On the commercial side I tend to agree with Airman's views they are almost throwing stuff out and seeing what sticks which for me isn't enough to achieve what they want although it has likely created a fair amount of goodwill among ST holders.
It hasn't gone that well so far but there is time still in the '5 year plan' timescale to start showing more promise. I would say if it really isn't going anywhere by then he may well decide to cut and run, perhaps not unreasonably after a significant roll of the dice, at least we don't have to worry about him flogging off the assets..
Also, Jacob Roddy’s just been brought in as FIFA’s new left back.
Does anyone know what happened to Jacob Roddy; did he leave at the same time as his Dad ? It's bizarre with so many ITK about the going on at Sparrows and behind the scenes at Cafc we haven't heard that Jacob has taken his gap year and gone to Borneo ? He may have been head hunted for that trip.
A kid who should've been playing U18'S: He still qualified when he first joined but because Purrington was the only Left back and injured he was put into the first team where he was so out of his depth the coastguard was called.
Also, Jacob Roddy’s just been brought in as FIFA’s new left back.
Does anyone know what happened to Jacob Roddy; did he leave at the same time as his Dad ? It's bizarre with so many ITK about the going on at Sparrows and behind the scenes at Cafc we haven't heard that Jacob has taken his gap year and gone to Borneo ? He may have been head hunted for that trip.
A kid who should've been playing U18'S: He still qualified when he first joined but because Purrington was the only Left back and injured he was put into the first team where he was so out of his depth the coastguard was called.
I wish the lad well.
I believe he had a pretty bad injury. Could be wrong.
Comments
If you look at the club’s historic commercial performance and compare it with others it’s easy to assume that it is has been due to poor management, even in the PL, whereas it’s more likely IMO to be structural based on geography and over performance in generating crowds.
There is very little potential for meaningful commercial growth in L1 and ditto international support, so the operating losses mount up.
He seemed to think that the club could stand on its actual and potential support in Greenwich and Bexley to fill The Valley, whereas London is more complicated than that and we all know that history and identity links the club strongly with Kent and the wider South East too. The current ticket dumping is not going to change things significantly, even if you view it as a positive. Change is incremental and requires hard graft.
I’m not saying TS hasn’t or can’t learn about these things, or that he hasn’t done good things too, just that many of his initial assumptions were over optimistic and that the same will be true if he gets to the Championship - not because he is stupid or hasn’t looked at the numbers, but because he doesn’t understand the background well enough.
Any Tom who's dick is Harry can look at the historic accounts and most people can get a decent idea of how much its loosing. Most people have ideas, realistic or other wise, about how they would increase revenue or reduce costs. You see it on here all the time. Buy x amount of players for y and sell one for z and repeat, fill the Valley, get a sponsorship deal etc etc.
People who are as successful as Thomas, and Roland, will think they can do it better. Do it differently. Maybe Thomas can, most likely he can't, but he will think he can. He is almost certainly used to getting his own way and it may have come as a bit of a shock how this season has gone but he also needs to understand if his demands are realistic.
Buy good players and play good football, sell more tickets make more commercial income etc is a lot harder that it sounds, else everyone would be doing it.
Y’all written to your MPs yet, asking for them to make sure it happens?
https://www.castrust.org/2021/12/cast-members-lobby-mps/
Not The Valley. Not the training ground.
Sandgaard owns the liabilities and the expectations.
"Thanks, Dad."
Start with a large fortune.
on the subject of lottery money, has it made life too easy for the beneficiaries ? .. for how long can they get away with sub standard performances and still stay on the lottery payroll ?
From another thread - and posted in October.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
We have a collection of average League 1 players, most of whom are underperforming. Add to that some kids who aren't good enough and we find our natural level ... bottom half of the table. Why would anyone expect anything different?
Sandgaard needs to start again. His first year has been shambolic.
He needs to clear out all of his misplaced appointments, take the hit to his pocket and do it properly next time. That means recruiting proper football people, not David Brent types who operate with spreadsheets and laser pointers.
And, if Sandgaard doesn't have the money to do that ... remembering that getting promotion out of League 1 was probably the easy bit of his foolishly-stated five-year plan ... then he needs to find some investor partners, or sell up to someone who knows what they are doing and who has the dosh to do it.
Don't forget that we still have the legacy of ground and training ground ownership to deal with. Fucking shambles.
How long that takes and whether this can actually be achieved in League 1 nowadays, let alone the Championship remains to be seen. As we all know this is a zero sum game and will depend a lot on the people behind the scenes, this is where the League is won with this approach, being better than those at our competitors. On the commercial side I tend to agree with Airman's views they are almost throwing stuff out and seeing what sticks which for me isn't enough to achieve what they want although it has likely created a fair amount of goodwill among ST holders.
It hasn't gone that well so far but there is time still in the '5 year plan' timescale to start showing more promise. I would say if it really isn't going anywhere by then he may well decide to cut and run, perhaps not unreasonably after a significant roll of the dice, at least we don't have to worry about him flogging off the assets..
1) Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
2) Don't belive everything anyone say in public, regardless of if they are the current goodie or villain.
Noticed his Linked-in profile doesn't even mention us as his past employment experience.
Does anyone know what happened to Jacob Roddy; did he leave at the same time as his Dad ? It's bizarre with so many ITK about the going on at Sparrows and behind the scenes at Cafc we haven't heard that Jacob has taken his gap year and gone to Borneo ?
He may have been head hunted for that trip.
A kid who should've been playing U18'S:
He still qualified when he first joined but because Purrington was the only Left back and injured he was put into the first team where he was so out of his depth the coastguard was called.
I wish the lad well.