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Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40

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  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,972
    Charlton must prove that the delay of 9 months before having the hearing into the offence was an unreasonable delay in justice, this would require an explanation from the EFL of why they took so long,
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 33,995
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Don’t be silly expecting the EFL to be logical  :)
  • sammy391
    sammy391 Posts: 3,782
    msomerton said:
    Charlton must prove that the delay of 9 months before having the hearing into the offence was an unreasonable delay in justice, this would require an explanation from the EFL of why they took so long,
    Surely that’s reasonably easy? 
    If they can sort the Wigan & bury situation out in a matter of weeks then surely a decision on cheating is arbitrary 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,291
    sammy391 said:
    msomerton said:
    Charlton must prove that the delay of 9 months before having the hearing into the offence was an unreasonable delay in justice, this would require an explanation from the EFL of why they took so long,
    Surely that’s reasonably easy? 
    If they can sort the Wigan & bury situation out in a matter of weeks then surely a decision on cheating is arbitrary 
    They'll probably give their sarcastic response saying that they'd have sorted the Wednesday case sooner had they not been forced to sort out our ownership!!
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


  • bexleyaddick
    bexleyaddick Posts: 478
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    bexleyaddick said:
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
    I wouldn't assume that's a given with the EFL though.
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,291
    COVID is a terrible excuse to blame it on - Surely they could have heard cases / appeals etc. over Zoom?

    After all thats what the courts have been doing with success
  • Miserableoldgit
    Miserableoldgit Posts: 21,458
    msomerton said:
    Charlton must prove that the delay of 9 months before having the hearing into the offence was an unreasonable delay in justice, this would require an explanation from the EFL of why they took so long,
    But, how long would it take the EFL to give the explanation of why they took so long......
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,213
    bexleyaddick said:
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
    Sheffield Wednesday were officially caught in November 2019, not sure how Covid can be blamed as the country wasn't placed into lockdown until late March. 

    So even if Covid is used as the excuse for the delay between March and July, what's the excuse for nothing being done between November and March?
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  • Coyotejohn1947
    Coyotejohn1947 Posts: 1,163
    edited August 2020
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Well this line is a bit interesting:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53649840

    In a statement, the English Football League added: "The decision of the arbitration panel is final and legally binding.

    So in that case the independant panel's decision against Sheffield Wednesday is also binding?

    And to top it off didnt the EFL appeal against the panel's decision in the Birmingham City case, asking for a bigger points deduction?
    The Wigan case is different to Sheff Weds as I understand it.

    Ok here goes - like I say - this is purely how I understand it - the Wigan penalty was automatic - there is a 12 point penalty for going into administration no if and no buts and it doesn't go before an Independent Disciplinary Committee (IDC) - its immediate.

    What I don't understand and have evidently got mixed up with before is that surely the 12 point deduction should occur immediately as well (i.e. as soon as the club goes into administration).

    In Wigan's case the penalty was only applied at the end of the 46 game season so why was that? It seems as if there was some caveat about the number of points they gained this season but who made that decision and why. It wasn't the IDC as there wasn't one so it must have been the ELF themselves.

    Presumably, there is no higher appeal mechanism in this instance but I doubt (not a lawyer) that such a body which has no legal standing can issue a decision which is not challengable in a Civil Court (then again would the EFL issue a statement that had not gone though their lawyers - puzzling?).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Whereas,

    the IDC decision on Sheff Weds came as a result of charges brought against the Club and named individuals in respect of breach of  financial profitability and sustainability rules by the EFL. Clearly, the EFL cannot be the judge in the case it has brought so it sends a rep to the IDC and Sheff Weds also send a rep (so equivalent of prosecution and defence if you will, fronted by an independent Commissioner (Judge in this analogy).

    The IDC did not proceed with the charges against SW owner Chasiri, Financial Director John Redgate and CEO Katrien Meire but the reasons for not proceeding have never been published. (BTW Katien Meire was CEO only from 2018 whereas the charges relate primarily to earlier season's reporting 'irregularities'). The reason for not publishing was that the case against the club was still ongoing (that was in March 2020).

    With the IDC decision now concluded, the reasons for not proceeding with the individual cases can now be published along with the reasons for the decision to dock 12 points and apply it only next season. As at 7pm this evening I don't think those reasons have been published (4 days after the announcement of the verdict).

    The EFL can appeal the decision either to seek a harsher or a more lenient penalty but they will not make any decision either way until they have received the written reasons from the IDC (see above paragraph) setting out why the IDC decided on 12 point deduction (it could have been greater or fewer) and why they decided to apply the sanction for next season rather than this.

    Should the EFL make an appeal (and there are precedents for them so doing - Birmingham has been mentioned and Macclesfield also where in both cases I think the EFL were seeking increases in the penalties handed out
    then, if they do appeal where does this go --- to the same arbitration panel which dealt with the Wigan case?

    If so, they will be looking at an entirely different scenario as Wigan's penalty was automatic and effectively not able to be subject to appeal -I am surprised they even got a hearing - Sheff Wednesday's by contrast is appealable but will be heard only if the the EFL (or indeed Sheff Wed) choose to go to appeal.
    If not and the EFL go with the IDC decision then it could I guess go to a Civil Court - who knows - but the chances of success must be slim.












     
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    stoneroses19 said:
    bexleyaddick said:
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
    Sheffield Wednesday were officially caught in November 2019, not sure how Covid can be blamed as the country wasn't placed into lockdown until late March. 

    So even if Covid is used as the excuse for the delay between March and July, what's the excuse for nothing being done between November and March?
    Did they ever give an explanation for the delay between the Leeds keeper being racist to Leko in September and a verdict being reached in January? If so, that'll be their excuse again.
  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    I think we are forgetting that the SW case was only bought forward because Barnsley were threatening legal action. From that I deduce that is what they always wanted, the punishment next season. Why I have no idea, but with a lot of fans they do add income to all clubs? That sounds so weak, but I cannot think of another reason other than a bribe - and I think that unlikely even given footballs history.
    We therefore have both the EFL and SW representatives on the panel wanting that - hence the decision. The date being put back was just a sop to shut Barnsley up.

    I therefore conclude that a deal was done between the EFL and SW to give them a slap on the wrists whilst making the EFL look tough on cheats.

    The trouble is that football now knows that SW are cheats - and so are the EFL.
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,972
    There is a  saying that goes some thing like justice delayed is justice not done. Maybe a high court judge may agree with that if there is any sign of deli
  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,273
    MattF said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    bexleyaddick said:
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
    Sheffield Wednesday were officially caught in November 2019, not sure how Covid can be blamed as the country wasn't placed into lockdown until late March. 

    So even if Covid is used as the excuse for the delay between March and July, what's the excuse for nothing being done between November and March?
    Did they ever give an explanation for the delay between the Leeds keeper being racist to Leko in September and a verdict being reached in January? If so, that'll be their excuse again.
    That was the FA though, wasn't it?
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    edited August 2020
    aliwibble said:
    MattF said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    bexleyaddick said:
    MattF said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Perhaps someone could answer this one for me...

    Sheffield Wednesday fans are claiming that their punishment has been delayed until next season because their points deduction was given after the season had ended.

    Well as per the EFL's statement, Wigan didnt get their points deduction until AFTER the Fulham game so the season had also ended...
    Yeah, their definition of when the season has ended changes depending on whoch team they are trying to/trying not to screw. Sheffield Wednesday's deduction is next season because apparently without Covid, the season would have been finished by May and therefore that's the official end of the season. Didn't seem to work that way for Wigan though who went into admin in July.


    But surely one could counter that with the argument that the panels' decision would have been reached earlier if it wasn't for Covid? 
    Sheffield Wednesday were officially caught in November 2019, not sure how Covid can be blamed as the country wasn't placed into lockdown until late March. 

    So even if Covid is used as the excuse for the delay between March and July, what's the excuse for nothing being done between November and March?
    Did they ever give an explanation for the delay between the Leeds keeper being racist to Leko in September and a verdict being reached in January? If so, that'll be their excuse again.
    That was the FA though, wasn't it?
    So it was, my bad. Must just be a thing with governing bodies.
  • Coyotejohn1947
    Coyotejohn1947 Posts: 1,163
    edited August 2020
    MattF said:

    Did they ever give an explanation for the delay between the Leeds keeper being racist to Leko in September and a verdict being reached in January? If so, that'll be their excuse again.
    That was the FA though, wasn't it?
    So it was, my bad. Must just be a thing with governing bodies.
    It's easily done though. Until last week I thought it was the EFL making these Football League decisions not a so-called Independent Disciplinary Commission (IDC).
    So-called Independent but at least one of the 3 man commission is there to represent the club being charged so how exactly is that Independent?
  • CafcSCP
    CafcSCP Posts: 1,464
    no point appealing now.
    The season will have started by the time they come to a decision, plus Wednesday would appeal it
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,735
    We should appeal regardless of whether we think it will make a difference for us. It’s the right thing to do. 

    I’m not surprised that a number of teams are apparently supporting us. 

    After all - I’m sure most of them would rather play against a basket-case club like us next season, fielding dregs.....than a SWFC side that will be able to field much better players due to their financial shenanigans. 
  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    SuedeAdidas said:
    We should appeal regardless of whether we think it will make a difference for us. It’s the right thing to do. 

    I’m not surprised that a number of teams are apparently supporting us. 

    After all - I’m sure most of them would rather play against a basket-case club like us next season, fielding dregs.....than a SWFC side that will be able to field much better players due to their financial shenanigans. 
    Maybe they support the principal of everyone following the rules that they set themselves, but there will be a lot of self interest as well and will have more to do with their own situation rather than playing us. Points deductions for Derby would be good for those at the top and are any of the teams coming down due investigation? 
    Several clubs will be feeling the pinch a bit next season and would want a clear message that things like a salary cap will be honoured by all. Not a few richer clubs by players parents a house etc.
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  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    Nottingham Forest got spanked 4-0 by SW and drew the other game. I guess they are not too pleased with SW.
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 50,974
    Wigan have been given until 31 August 2020 to finalise a new owner or else.................?
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    I see they sold another player today too, Kieffer Moore to Cardiff for only 2m.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,840
    Chey Dunkley has gone to Wednesday.

    He'll regret that when the EFL relegate them
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    #SaveWAFC
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,840
    ross1 said:
    Wigan have been given until 31 August 2020 to finalise a new owner or else.................?
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/aug/13/wigan-administrators-set-strict-deadline-of-31-august-for-potential-buyers?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1597343779

    You'd hope that the administrators have set this deadline to hurry along the potential buyers. In some ways, buying a club out of administration should be a relatively straightforward process, certainly when compared to buying from Roland...
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,436

    Wigan Athletic: Former owner Au Yeung Wai Kay waives £36m owed by club

    Something not right about this. You  don't just right if £36m
  • robroy
    robroy Posts: 4,425
    Because he has made three times that betting on them going into administration 
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,598
    PrincessFiona said:

    Wigan Athletic: Former owner Au Yeung Wai Kay waives £36m owed by club

    Something not right about this. You  don't just right if £36m
    You do, if you won more than that on a bet.
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,436
    guinnessaddick said:
    PrincessFiona said:

    Wigan Athletic: Former owner Au Yeung Wai Kay waives £36m owed by club

    Something not right about this. You  don't just right if £36m
    You do, if you won more than that on a bet.
    Exactly - almost proving something suspicious went on. Can someone/some authority not investigate?

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