Early days but a five year plan and sustainability good.
All will come out re the money eg why possibly no money to buy valley and training ground now. Investments to mature first? Thought it strange when Matt Southall reported as 25% stake, but that’s because I thought c £60m invested and not just a £1 for the football side of things! Better than Duchatalet already so ok.
How comes we’ve spent years trying to get Roland to talk then?
I for one, am glad to hear from those in current charge of our club.
You have no idea how many bids for players we’ve made, how close we are to making multiple signings next week, maybe our owners are smart and don’t want every bit of player business leaked onto twitter or Charlton Life.
I wish Charlton fans on here,Twitter & Facebook would have aday off from the none stop moaning we all knew it would be a hard season and that was with roland owning us. We now have so much work to do on and off the pitch with the new owners. finishing 21st will be fine then we can rebuild in the summer.
This. Although I wish that they would have more than 1 day off.
we know that offers have been made and players have been in the building but for whatever reason, deals haven’t been completed.
im pretty certain that the Calibre and quantity of players that we have spoken with so far this month far outweighs what would have happened if Roland was still here
frustrating, yes but give them a break and judge after a reasonable time not after 3 weeks
Dear good roland got away with murder and some fans did nothing, now we have a new owner for 2 weeks and the knives are out just because they have money and not spent it yet. Have a day off for once
The thread title asks for our thoughts, of which we’ve replied, they’ve not done anything, which is fact. I could have had the last two weeks off in Barbados and it would still be this.
Offering Lee Bowyer a 5 year contract, when the previous owner made it difficult to get just a 1 year offer put across, is hardly a case of ESI not doing anything....
But he hasnt signed it yet. You could find that it's on worse terms than his current one. Seeing as 6 weeks ago they said their first priority was to tie both Bowyer & Taylor down to new contracts they havent done too well.
Firstly - They have made it a priority to tie down Bowyer and Taylor.
Do you genuinely believe that the offer for Bowyer is going to be worse than what Roland offered? Considering this is a 5 year deal and Bowyer himself has stated he is close to sining it....
As for Taylor, it’s been well reported that a very strong offer was made to him, and he turned it down. That’s his choice.
Secondly - They only officially took the club over about 2-3 weeks ago.
I think they are wobbling .ME has underestimated work load and the first incurred costs (transfers and outstanding contracts). I thought it was possible his visit to the UAE may have been to ask for a cash input, that didn't look like it was.
Years ago we brought a top top 5star hotel. Weeks before I started i was swamped by the CEO with strategy, budgets,plans blah blah ,lists of priorities. My first day I reviewed the place and compliance --- it was horrific.I showed the CEO and he was very laid back.He said in a year we are going into a £50 million refurb.When I pointed out the EHO could shut us down in 24hrs . That same day we spoke to Hong Kong and in hours i had a zero based budget to get us compliant remove the risk until the refurb took place.We claimed a lot of money off the company who undertook a flawed DD,and I spent the big shilling. MS is in a similar situation.The risk of relegation is real.We can't wait until ESI "own" us. Pre planning should have highlighted the issues not only in contracts and real estate but the impact on any budget Jan transfers have. In order for us to move on in any plan ESI have we must stay up,therefore he has to have a zero based budget---spend what is required NOW.
If we go down ESI walk away and pay Roland a few million in contract breach and we as a football club are dead. We will be toxic no one else will be prepared to buy us
When you have an emergency, you will pay over the top. Cafc have an emergency on the playing side and Matt Southall on Steve Gallen advice (according to Matt) have decided NOT to pay an emergency fee. Lee Bowyers words, "we need bodies in before the Fulham game" shows a growing frustration with our current squad of walking wounded and only Green through the door for Lee. This is damaging to Bowyer prospects either at Cafc or a more ambitious club in the future. Having faith has never worked for me since walking out of Sunday school at 8 years old because of the silly religious stories. (This is....true)
Please read Grapevine49 instead of a Sunday newspaper or blog of choice.
Early days but a five year plan and sustainability good.
All will come out re the money eg why possibly no money to buy valley and training ground now. Investments to mature first? Thought it strange when Matt Southall reported as 25% stake, but that’s because I thought c £60m invested and not just a £1 for the football side of things! Better than Duchatalet already so ok.
What a top business deal.
25p to sit in the directors box for half a season.
Usual excellence from Grapevine there. I think you have highlighted some important areas. Players want to win and the dressing room may not be the best place at the moment. I'd like to throw a thought I am having in there. If we are having difficulty because clubs and players know we have new owners linked to Abu Dhabi and are desperate, maybe we would have had more joy with Bowyer spending a meagre budget that players and clubs know come from a yellow toothed skinflint a*hole where desperation of the situation is irrelevant to him!
I hope I'm wrong, but a few things that have come to light I find very concerning. If they have truely studied our history, they should have realised that Charlton fans were very short on trust, and that they needed to be transparent and accurate from the outset. Telling us they "owned" the Valley, when they are actually only leasing it, was not a great start. That is very fundamental to me. The idea of acquiring a London football club seems to have happened on a whim one day in HE,s office, and it all seems to have all been rushed through without enough thought or foresight. We'll forgive them that, but only if they pull their finger out and start putting their words into action.
Relegation costs up to £7m in lost central and ticket revenue and it will not be offset more than marginally by any conceivable cost-cutting.
Charlton have been losing targets to other clubs, which makes the argument about paying over the odds a bit moot. The market rate is what other people pay.
i have no doubt Lee will sign his contract and we will see some loans come in to replace those who have gone, but not spending money to give yourself the best chance of staying up makes little business sense, if that money is available.
I will reserve judgement until the end of this month. I will say one positive seems that comms from the club is a lot better since the takeover. Think i have had more cafc emails the last month than i can remember.
Excellent post grapevine, a very insightful read. I especially enjoyed your description of our injury crisis. "Unfortunately untested reinforcements bend and sticking plasters become unstuck with the gale force winds of an injury hurricane".
I wish Charlton fans on here,Twitter & Facebook would have aday off from the none stop moaning we all knew it would be a hard season and that was with roland owning us. We now have so much work to do on and off the pitch with the new owners. finishing 21st will be fine then we can rebuild in the summer.
Dave, you are spot on with Twitter and Facebook I would imagine, despite not being on either ( but have read and seen the garbage when highlighted on CL or in my newspaper of choice "i") As for CL, it is a eclectic mix of folk who can hit the nail on the head or pay a visit to A+E with their posts. It's important that despite the black and white scarfs being laid at the feet of Sam Bartram, the same questions are asked in a respectful way to Matt Southall that were put to Katie Meire and Duchatelet.
After the tenure of the 3 amigos and Douchebag this is no time to become complacent because our owner come from UAE. We need to stay vigilant because we have had a myriad of poor owners in our history. It was by asking the question at the CAST meeting we found out we still have a landlord for a few months longer.
We can just brown nose, but best to give him encouragement while Matt realizes that the B+W campaign is for life and not just for Duchatelet and his ex muse, Meire.
Looking at this in terms of available information and probability is perhaps the best approach.
ESI, those involved and the investors appear legitimate
ESI have been in charge for 17 days and inherited a mess.
There has been and increase in communication with supporters
The declared intent in all areas seems positive
LB has been offered a five year contract and noise re this have thus far been positive.
ESI have apparently listened to concerns - eg LB contact / backtracking on LT
In terms of probability it is entirely possible that Duchatelet may alter his approach, or that ESI entered into this arrangement with the intention of walking away after six months (presumably against a backdrop of litigation) and leaving us in a serious predicament, however it both seem fairly improbable and unlikely if taken in the wider context.
After five awful years for the club it is understandable that everyone has high expectations and are jumpy however it seems way too early to be making judgments or leaping to conclusions. It is also likely that mistakes will be made.
OMG 3 weeks in and we not leading the championship by 10 pts. ffs give them a bit of time
Only the kids in the covered end believed that. We have welcomed Matt to Cafc in the lounge and in the ground. Time unfortunately is what Matt hasn't got.
While Matt and ESI have said the right things, at the end of the day actions are what ultimately count, especially in a time critical situation and so far it's been a bit underwhelming in terms of actual achievements, whether signings or contracts. Yes, we don't want to overspend, but at the moment we don't look like a club with money to spend, which is slightly concerning. Being linked with 2 Bristol Rovers players in the papers (yes it's paper talk blah blah) doesn't suggest a club making a step change in its ambition...
Yes Matt seems a decent guy and has said the right things, but to be fair in the early days Katrien seemed the same as well.
Everything thing they have said so far regarding the club, management team, Sparrows, technology and investment have been spot on. I think if they deliver we will have struck gold but right now delivering something to ensure we remain in the championship is very urgent. In all honesty I doubt we will have the info to make a proper judgement until August.
Still early days so I remain neutral at present but they do seem to be disingenuous to say the least in what has been said which is not encouraging and does worry me.
If the playing strength looks significantly stronger come Friday week some of my fears will be allayed as a strong signal will have been sent that things are moving in the right direction.
There is a f****** great herd of elephants in the room though regarding The Valley and training ground for me.
So far unimpressed with the ownership of the football club, need to splash the cash and nothing. Fear they are the typical Charlton owners of the last 50 years, all talk and deep pockets.
I’ve not Seen the transcripts of the interviews but there is t much clarity over the ownership of the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Fairly sure that the entity with the freeholds was not transferred yet so ESI definitely doesn’t currently own them outright.
Could be that the deal provides that they will absolutely transfer to ESI subject to standard property searches and with agreed price adjustments in case of remedial work being required to correct over representations made by Duchatelet in his disclosures of the state of the assets. I hope it’s this because then the statements;
’yes the deal includes ESI having the ownership of the Valley and The training ground.’
and
’we don’t currently own sparrows lane and the Valley but have a contractual commitment to acquire them in the next six months’
are not mutually exclusive but just not as clear as they could be. I think as a former agent Matt Southall is likely to give the view that he thinks people want to hear in a way he thinks sounds good. He’ll need to become more measured as he grows into his CEO role.
Plenty of people got time to pick all your statements apart, to misquote, and to pick up on any fins and hold your feet to the fire.
Why? Are people not allowed to voice an opinion? I get that we will be in a far better position to make a judgement on 1St. February but the thread question is a legitimate one and this forum is about debate and opinion, witness for example Grapevine's fascinating contribution.
Of course but it’s a leading question as the answer is bound to be negative at this stage, and I think the point is it’s not a fair judgement point yet to be making negative assessments.
For all we know, the reason we have not signed anyone yet could solely be down to Gallen & Bowyer saying “no, that’s not fair value for that individual, don’t pay it”. Southall & co could be just as frustrated as us.
We just don’t know. Half time assessments in games ultimately prove little value as all that really matters is the full time one with half a game still to play. Let’s see how things stand in a fortnight imo. Then either platitudes or knives can come out if you do wish.
Oh right, and shall we wait until we finish in May, before we comment on this season? After all, we wouldn't want speculation, rumour, half-truths or debate on an open forum would we?
I am joshing of course, but compare your response to the peremptory one it is defending is the point I was trying to make.
ESI have a lot to deal with. Some things are important, some things are urgent. Their task is properly to prioritise those that are urgent and deal with as many of the important things, as soon as possible.
You don't judge whether a Forumla 1 driver is having a good season part-way through the first lap. But their first lap time is pretty important. Right now, ESI are navigating their first lap, which ends on 31 January. So, by the 1 February, we will be able to tell if they've started well.
Yes we get it, it is far too early to make a definitive judgement. The OP is simply asking for your "thoughts so far". No doubt our thoughts will be a mix of speculation, humbug, shit and genius - but we are just a bunch of herberts on a football forum, it is not The Final Judgement
Comments
Thought it strange when Matt Southall reported as 25% stake, but that’s because I thought c £60m invested and not just a £1 for the football side of things!
Better than Duchatalet already so ok.
we know that offers have been made and players have been in the building but for whatever reason, deals haven’t been completed.
im pretty certain that the Calibre and quantity of players that we have spoken with so far this month far outweighs what would have happened if Roland was still here
frustrating, yes but give them a break and judge after a reasonable time not after 3 weeks
Do you genuinely believe that the offer for Bowyer is going to be worse than what Roland offered? Considering this is a 5 year deal and Bowyer himself has stated he is close to sining it....
As for Taylor, it’s been well reported that a very strong offer was made to him, and he turned it down. That’s his choice.
Secondly - They only officially took the club over about 2-3 weeks ago.
I hear laughter in St Truiden.
Lee Bowyers words, "we need bodies in before the Fulham game" shows a growing frustration with our current squad of walking wounded and only Green through the door for Lee. This is damaging to Bowyer prospects either at Cafc or a more ambitious club in the future. Having faith has never worked for me since walking out of Sunday school at 8 years old because of the silly religious stories. (This is....true)
Please read Grapevine49 instead of a Sunday newspaper or blog of choice.
25p to sit in the directors box for half a season.
If they have truely studied our history, they should have realised that Charlton fans were very short on trust, and that they needed to be transparent and accurate from the outset.
Telling us they "owned" the Valley, when they are actually only leasing it, was not a great start. That is very fundamental to me.
The idea of acquiring a London football club seems to have happened on a whim one day in HE,s office, and it all seems to have all been rushed through without enough thought or foresight.
We'll forgive them that, but only if they pull their finger out and start putting their words into action.
Charlton have been losing targets to other clubs, which makes the argument about paying over the odds a bit moot. The market rate is what other people pay.
i have no doubt Lee will sign his contract and we will see some loans come in to replace those who have gone, but not spending money to give yourself the best chance of staying up makes little business sense, if that money is available.
ffs give them a bit of time
Excellent post grapevine, a very insightful read. I especially enjoyed your description of our injury crisis.
"Unfortunately untested reinforcements bend and sticking plasters become unstuck with the gale force winds of an injury hurricane".
As for CL, it is a eclectic mix of folk who can hit the nail on the head or pay a visit to A+E with their posts.
It's important that despite the black and white scarfs being laid at the feet of Sam Bartram, the same questions are asked in a respectful way to Matt Southall that were put to Katie Meire and Duchatelet.
After the tenure of the 3 amigos and Douchebag this is no time to become complacent because our owner come from UAE. We need to stay vigilant because we have had a myriad of poor owners in our history.
It was by asking the question at the CAST meeting we found out we still have a landlord for a few months longer.
We can just brown nose, but best to give him encouragement while Matt realizes that the B+W campaign is for life and not just for Duchatelet and his ex muse, Meire.
ESI, those involved and the investors appear legitimate
ESI have been in charge for 17 days and inherited a mess.
There has been and increase in communication with supporters
The declared intent in all areas seems positive
LB has been offered a five year contract and noise re this have thus far been positive.
ESI have apparently listened to concerns - eg LB contact / backtracking on LT
In terms of probability it is entirely possible that Duchatelet may alter his approach, or that ESI entered into this arrangement with the intention of walking away after six months (presumably against a backdrop of litigation) and leaving us in a serious predicament, however it both seem fairly improbable and unlikely if taken in the wider context.
After five awful years for the club it is understandable that everyone has high expectations and are jumpy however it seems way too early to be making judgments or leaping to conclusions. It is also likely that mistakes will be made.
Yes Matt seems a decent guy and has said the right things, but to be fair in the early days Katrien seemed the same as well.
If the playing strength looks significantly stronger come Friday week some of my fears will be allayed as a strong signal will have been sent that things are moving in the right direction.
There is a f****** great herd of elephants in the room though regarding The Valley and training ground for me.
Not panicking yet and am sure deals are being worked on as we speak.
Bit of patience required, which no one in football seems to have anymore.
Only suspect but for me is the initial apparent lie around owning the Valley.
Fairly sure that the entity with the freeholds was not transferred yet so ESI definitely doesn’t currently own them outright.
Could be that the deal provides that they will absolutely transfer to ESI subject to standard property searches and with agreed price adjustments in case of remedial work being required to correct over representations made by Duchatelet in his disclosures of the state of the assets. I hope it’s this because then the statements;
’yes the deal includes ESI having the ownership of the Valley and The training ground.’
and
’we don’t currently own sparrows lane and the Valley but have a contractual commitment to acquire them in the next six months’
are not mutually exclusive but just not as clear as they could be. I think as a former agent Matt Southall is likely to give the view that he thinks people want to hear in a way he thinks sounds good. He’ll need to become more measured as he grows into his CEO role.
Good luck Matt and hope you haven’t been fibbing.
After all, we wouldn't want speculation, rumour, half-truths or debate on an open forum would we?
I am joshing of course, but compare your response to the peremptory one it is defending is the point I was trying to make.
The OP is simply asking for your "thoughts so far".
No doubt our thoughts will be a mix of speculation, humbug, shit and genius - but we are just a bunch of herberts on a football forum, it is not The Final Judgement