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Sunderland v Charlton - Post Match Views

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    Given a run I think Phillips will be fine.
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    On the match thread, somebody (sorry can't remember who) said that they had never felt so angry going in to a season. I thought that was a brilliant comment. We might have started with weaker squads but never as a result of such colossal incompetence, greed and malevolent lack of corporate responsibility as that shown by our current owner.

    I watched chunks on various dodgy streams, but of course the stream was working perfectly for the winner. A winner scored by a player who would not have been on the pitch, were the richest European football country utilising the technology available to assist referees in calling key decisions.

    I'll leave others to pore over the details, and will only mention that this time last year I wasn't much impressed with Ben Amos at Plymouth. So let's go easy on Phillips, eh?

    I just want to say, we have to get this **** out now. I implore everybody to stop turning on each other, and back anyone who is doing anything legal and not obviously harming the image of CAFC, to get him out. Whatever. Boycott, walkouts, flying pigs, rattling the cage of the football authorities, whatever.

    Roland Out Today.

    referring to the harming image idea .. yesterday I sat next to a long time season ticket holder who also goes to every away game, i.e. a real, dedicated and knowledgeable fan .. she told me how she cringes every time the CAFC choir start with .. 'you're f******** shit, you're f****** shit etc, and other classics like 'we pay your benefits' and 'Sunderland's a s**hole I wanna go home' ..
    she says that it brings disrepute to CAFC and makes us all look stupid when, as yesterday, we lose.
    I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to having a good f and blind, but I tend to agree with her. I admire the boys' enthusiasm but do find some of the chants a bit cringeworthy .. whatever
    Same chants at most clubs it seems.
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    cafc83 said:

    Painful.

    First half we looked cracking, top two were too much for Sunderland to handle, midfield looked busy and energetic and back 4 comfortable. Second half the formation change did us, and we had no options on the bench to bring on to try and change things around. It is going to be a long season.

    And yet more injuries :(

    Definitely needed that second goal, played well in first half, Sunderland improved after half time and would have took a point once they scored...once those 6 minutes were added on the final outcome was somewhat inevitable.
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    I know 'game management' is a bit of a naff phrase but I thought ours was shocking in the last ten. Three minutes into injury time we won a free kick. The sensible thing would have been to keep possession, play down the clock and just knock it around and generally time waste. What we did (I think it was Bauer) was hoof it straight out of play. This cheaply handed possession and momentum back to Sunderland who were able to build again and score. Knackered or not this seemed naive. Shame because our first half performance was terrific.

    This was so true, I said that free kick should have just been hung up to corner of box make it a 50/50 in their box and hope we either win the header or they make a mistake.
    Kicking it out of play in the corner flag was dopey and unexplainable.
    Good job Phillips hadn't done that.
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    I know 'game management' is a bit of a naff phrase but I thought ours was shocking in the last ten. Three minutes into injury time we won a free kick. The sensible thing would have been to keep possession, play down the clock and just knock it around and generally time waste. What we did (I think it was Bauer) was hoof it straight out of play. This cheaply handed possession and momentum back to Sunderland who were able to build again and score. Knackered or not this seemed naive. Shame because our first half performance was terrific.

    Agreed. I think Bauer was trying to chip the ball towards towards the corner flag, hoping that Karlan would latch on to it?
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    Phillips cost us there when he conceded that equaliser if that’s Amos he saves that all day long. Phillips can be as home grown as he likes but he’s proper out of his depth

    Amos had a shocker on the opening game of last season and looked poor for the first few games.
    But as the season went on he grew in confidence and was one of our best players.
    If Phillips is to be our first choice keeper this season I'm sure he will improve the more he plays.
    I hope that the fans get behind him as this can only help him grow in confidence.
    All goalkeepers make mistakes even at the highest level
    Simonsen said:

    Phillips cost us there when he conceded that equaliser if that’s Amos he saves that all day long. Phillips can be as home grown as he likes but he’s proper out of his depth

    Amos had a shocker on the opening game of last season and looked poor for the first few games.
    But as the season went on he grew in confidence and was one of our best players.
    If Phillips is to be our first choice keeper this season I'm sure he will improve the more he plays.
    I hope that the fans get behind him as this can only help him grow in confidence.
    Agreed. Players tend to improve as they get more experienced. They have to start somewhere and there aren't too many young keepers who don't make an error in their first few games. Far too early to write Phillips off at this level.
    Lloris gave away a goal in the World Cup Final - going by the logic of some on here that should end his career.

    It would be easy enough to go through the highlights of most Premiership games and then analyse the goals to say which ones should have been saved. There is not a single keeper that doesn't make mistakes - the best keepers make the least.

    The only really bad keeper I've seen play for Charlton in recent seasons is Thuram.
    Spot-on. I think some posters are being a bit too harsh on Phillips. He made a few great saves which well made up for that initial error. And I don't even think it was that bad. To name just a few recent goalkeeper howlers, Lloris', De Gea's, and Karius' were all worse. And the former two have been playing for the very best teams in the world for a long time. Anyone know Bravo, the goalkeeper that Guardiola brought to Man City from Barcelona? I remember he had quite a few comical performances at the start of Guardiola's first Premier League season. Guardiola gave him at least a few months' time to adapt before eventually dropping him to the bench. Phillips is very young and needs time to improve. Even if he weren't our own, it'd still be harsh to write him off just after one game where he made only one mistake. (and it was not his mistake that cost us the game.)
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    When did we as a fan base become so shit at nurturing young players? When did we develop this idea that they must always be the finished article as soon as they appear in the first team?

    Part of being a good supporter of the team is to encourage and empower the players to perform. Doubly so when it comes to creating a supportive atmosphere that allows young players to play without fear. Too many of our fans are more interested in proving what a good judge of a player they are, though, by calling a young player’s whole career prospects after half a dozen appearances and then highlighting every error that player makes.

    Most of you were on here a year ago writing Amos off after the Plymouth game, decrying the incredible injustice of him playing ahead of Phillips. All on the basis of a couple of errors in one match.

    You were all wrong about that but a year later you still haven’t learnt and are now writing off Phillips, the very player you all wanted picked ahead of Amos a year ago. You’ll be the same bunch that were climbing all over Nick Pope before that... the same Nick Pope who is now considered one of the top keepers in the whole country.

    You all carry on running down our youngsters though, even though the manager has literally no option but to pick them right now. I’m sure the swelling it gives you in your pants is well worth it.

    I largely agree with you about nurturing youngsters. Whether it's the Fox-style scapegoating or the Konsa "he's not that good," it seems to be knives out for the homegrown lads of late. I suspect some of that is a way of not getting too attached, knowing that anyone decent will be sold, for peanuts, a year or two after their debut.

    I have to say, and keep in mind it's been like 18 hours since I read the first few pages of this thread, I don't think Phillips has had it that terribly bad just yet. From memory, and also from the player ratings, it seems to be "two good saves, a mistake for the goal," which I think is a fair assessment. Hopefully we continue to grow in our sense of perspective (and I include myself in this, I think Phillips is a good young keeper, a really good shot stopper at times, whose development has not been handled well by the club but about whom I still have some reservations, nothing really having to do with yesterday).

    When we aren't promoted this season, it will not be down to Dillon Phillips.
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    Such a waste of a good first half performance. Thought everyone deserved praise in the first half.

    I think any criticism of Lapslie and Phillips is harsh. Lapslie should have done better with his shot, but other than that he won the ball and passed well. It was his debut and it's about time our young players were cut some slack.

    Really faded second half, just couldn't keep it up. It's been a feature going back to beyond Curbs that we rarely put together 90 minutes of high performance. 45 mins max.

    Agree with those above who criticised our game management late on. And while Bowyer has got them fighting for the cause, I'm not sure how good he is as adapting to changes in a game. Though having said that, it's hard with one arm tied behind your back.

    Not sure it's been mentioned before but Roland can eff right off.
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    I recorded the match but unfortunately my mate swapped channels on his car radio just in time for the winner.
    So I haven’t bothered to watch our first defeat of the season.
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    I know 'game management' is a bit of a naff phrase but I thought ours was shocking in the last ten. Three minutes into injury time we won a free kick. The sensible thing would have been to keep possession, play down the clock and just knock it around and generally time waste. What we did (I think it was Bauer) was hoof it straight out of play. This cheaply handed possession and momentum back to Sunderland who were able to build again and score. Knackered or not this seemed naive. Shame because our first half performance was terrific.

    I thought exactly the same thing about that free kick, pal.

    It was Bauer and yeah, he lumped it to the corner and out of play when we just needed to keep the ball for as long as possible

    Don’t want to single Bauer out, but it does make me wonder if we work on how to close games out
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    Not much to addd to the generality of comments other than to say that for me it was the unadulterated inevitability of it all that made it so painful.

    I am sorry for the predicament that LB finds himself in but for me he needs to stop talking bollocks and just get on with it. He has our sympathy but to pretend that this is a promotional squad is simply laughable. And if he wanted to make a statement why not start with no subs at all? No point in naming five if your not going to use them. RHF simply must have offered more than a completely knackered Taylor in the last 20. Cutting nose off to spite one’s face a little. Utter basket case of a club and it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. Strap in lads, this is gonna be a bumpy ride.
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    That was a cruel blow at the Stadium of Shite. Even more deflating is the loss of Forster-Caskey for the entire season. In recent friendlies he was the midfielder who get stuck in with essential challenges – Aribo is far less physical in this respect – and got forward to score against Dulwich and Norwich. Is Pratley tough and quick enough?

    We’ll have to re-think our set pieces; Forster-Caskey took them all. We need the flair to spring surprises. Yesterday with a free-kick, the Sunderland taker shaped for the love-train in the box – the line of players goosing each other – but passed to his man sprinting on the blind side. I’ve seen opponents score at The Valley with this clever deceit. It seems that Bowyer and Jackson are so occupied with the players’ fitness that there’s little time for finesse.

    Grant is improving and maturing, yet seems unlikely to score frequently in this division; we didn’t threaten the Sunderland keeper at all in the second half. After the game, Bowyer promised us a new keeper, a defender, and a midfielder. We need muscle, flair and firepower – and some luck.
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    edited August 2018
    And another thing about that 5 subs malarkey. Three guys on the bench (I’m exempting ajose and Sarr) plus the likes of Blumberg and Mascol now know that the management team doesn’t think they are up to it (yet). It’s almost certain that with injuries we will need to play some or all of them at some stage and possibly soon. Nice confidence building handling eh?
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    On the match thread, somebody (sorry can't remember who) said that they had never felt so angry going in to a season. I thought that was a brilliant comment. We might have started with weaker squads but never as a result of such colossal incompetence, greed and malevolent lack of corporate responsibility as that shown by our current owner.

    I watched chunks on various dodgy streams, but of course the stream was working perfectly for the winner. A winner scored by a player who would not have been on the pitch, were the richest European football country utilising the technology available to assist referees in calling key decisions.

    I'll leave others to pore over the details, and will only mention that this time last year I wasn't much impressed with Ben Amos at Plymouth. So let's go easy on Phillips, eh?

    I just want to say, we have to get this **** out now. I implore everybody to stop turning on each other, and back anyone who is doing anything legal and not obviously harming the image of CAFC, to get him out. Whatever. Boycott, walkouts, flying pigs, rattling the cage of the football authorities, whatever.

    Roland Out Today.

    referring to the harming image idea .. yesterday I sat next to a long time season ticket holder who also goes to every away game, i.e. a real, dedicated and knowledgeable fan .. she told me how she cringes every time the CAFC choir start with .. 'you're f******** shit, you're f****** shit etc, and other classics like 'we pay your benefits' and 'Sunderland's a s**hole I wanna go home' ..
    she says that it brings disrepute to CAFC and makes us all look stupid when, as yesterday, we lose.
    I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to having a good f and blind, but I tend to agree with her. I admire the boys' enthusiasm but do find some of the chants a bit cringeworthy .. whatever
    Indeed, I know a few people who don't go to away games anymore due to these prize pratt's. Witnessed personally at Bury and Colchester in recent seasons.
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    On the match thread, somebody (sorry can't remember who) said that they had never felt so angry going in to a season. I thought that was a brilliant comment. We might have started with weaker squads but never as a result of such colossal incompetence, greed and malevolent lack of corporate responsibility as that shown by our current owner.

    I watched chunks on various dodgy streams, but of course the stream was working perfectly for the winner. A winner scored by a player who would not have been on the pitch, were the richest European football country utilising the technology available to assist referees in calling key decisions.

    I'll leave others to pore over the details, and will only mention that this time last year I wasn't much impressed with Ben Amos at Plymouth. So let's go easy on Phillips, eh?

    I just want to say, we have to get this **** out now. I implore everybody to stop turning on each other, and back anyone who is doing anything legal and not obviously harming the image of CAFC, to get him out. Whatever. Boycott, walkouts, flying pigs, rattling the cage of the football authorities, whatever.

    Roland Out Today.

    referring to the harming image idea .. yesterday I sat next to a long time season ticket holder who also goes to every away game, i.e. a real, dedicated and knowledgeable fan .. she told me how she cringes every time the CAFC choir start with .. 'you're f******** shit, you're f****** shit etc, and other classics like 'we pay your benefits' and 'Sunderland's a s**hole I wanna go home' ..
    she says that it brings disrepute to CAFC and makes us all look stupid when, as yesterday, we lose.
    I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to having a good f and blind, but I tend to agree with her. I admire the boys' enthusiasm but do find some of the chants a bit cringeworthy .. whatever
    Indeed, I know a few people who don't go to away games anymore due to these prize pratt's. Witnessed personally at Bury and Colchester in recent seasons.
    I think you'll find this goes on almost everywhere.

    Not condoning it btw.
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    Sunday Times gave Joe Aribo their 'star man of the match'
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    Not much to addd to the generality of comments other than to say that for me it was the unadulterated inevitability of it all that made it so painful.

    I am sorry for the predicament that LB finds himself in but for me he needs to stop talking bollocks and just get on with it. He has our sympathy but to pretend that this is a promotional squad is simply laughable. And if he wanted to make a statement why not start with no subs at all? No point in naming five if your not going to use them. RHF simply must have offered more than a completely knackered Taylor in the last 20. Cutting nose off to spite one’s face a little. Utter basket case of a club and it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. Strap in lads, this is gonna be a bumpy ride.

    This all day long.
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    That was a cruel blow at the Stadium of Shite. Even more deflating is the loss of Forster-Caskey for the entire season. In recent friendlies he was the midfielder who get stuck in with essential challenges – Aribo is far less physical in this respect – and got forward to score against Dulwich and Norwich. Is Pratley tough and quick enough?

    We’ll have to re-think our set pieces; Forster-Caskey took them all. We need the flair to spring surprises. Yesterday with a free-kick, the Sunderland taker shaped for the love-train in the box – the line of players goosing each other – but passed to his man sprinting on the blind side. I’ve seen opponents score at The Valley with this clever deceit. It seems that Bowyer and Jackson are so occupied with the players’ fitness that there’s little time for finesse.

    Grant is improving and maturing, yet seems unlikely to score frequently in this division; we didn’t threaten the Sunderland keeper at all in the second half. After the game, Bowyer promised us a new keeper, a defender, and a midfielder. We need muscle, flair and firepower – and some luck.

    Whilst I understand that the loss of JFC on Thursday probably buggered up LB's plans for Saturday surely someone else is capable (and actually practices) set pieces. We had 6 corners & not one even looked like causing any trouble - virtually all were under/over hit or too far out. Marshall is crap at crossing anyway - having him taking the corners is just plain daft, Best crosser yesterday was Page - maybe he should take them although I realise that he is usually one of the 2 defenders left deep to cover a breakaway.

    As for free-kicks ??? Grant didn't look like he knew he was doing & Pratley ( I think it was he) had no idea either. JFC wasn't much better last season (when did we last score direct from a free-kick or put in a great delivery that led directly to a goal). These are the things that should have been practiced in pre-season - all players know how to kick, trap, pass a fecking ball so most of the time should be spent on set pieces.......if anything the World Cup showed this in spades.
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    And another thing about that 5 subs malarkey. Three guys on the bench (I’m exempting ajose and Sarr) plus the lines of Blumberg and Mascol now know that the management team doesn’t think they are up to it (yet). It’s almost certain that with injuries we will need to play some or all of them at some stage and possibly soon. Nice confidence building handling eh?

    He didn't say they wouldn't be involved at all. He said he didn't feel the youngsters were ready to be played together in the 1st team - he didn't want to chuck them all in at once. As a group they would get their chance to play in the cups.

    Anyway, yesterday he gave a full debut to Lapslie - and played him for 99 minutes.

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    It did feel inevitable, but was nonetheless cruel. The patched up team did well in the first half and the lead was as deserved as it was surprising. Aribo, Grant, Marshall and Taylor were standouts but everybody was holding their own. The problem is, if you are down to the bare bones and are playing players you didn't intend to due to lack of match fitness, it is likely to catch up with you. As it inevitably did.

    I thought the biggest factor was tiredness - the team pressed excellently in the first half but were standing off opponents in the second when the energy levels dropped. We couldn't really rely on Sunderland maintaining their lack of quality in the final third especially when they got more time and space. Can't criticise the manager of players for that. I can only praise them in all honesty. We know who is to blame. But he doesn't care - was probably in his restaurant having lunch as the match was played.
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    Anyone notice Aribo liked this tweet? Very sportsmanlike that.
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    Fair play from Joe... there can be a lot of handbags at times as Football can stir a lot emotions - Shows the proof that once the game is done the players will have good working relationships with players from other sides
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Roland Out Forever!