Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In the recent past the British government used live ammunition against its own population in Northern Ireland. Thatcher encouraged the U.K. Police force to use extraordinary levels of violence against striking miners in the eighties.
I find it baffling the way Brexiteers are condemning the EU for not directly intervening in the affairs of Spain when over the last two years those same people have been whinging about how important it is for the UK to leave the EU in order to stop the EU meddling in the UK's affairs.
Not wanting to be in the club and not wanting the club to enforce it's rules are not the same thing.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In the recent past the British government used live ammunition against its own population in Northern Ireland. Thatcher encouraged the U.K. Police force to use extraordinary levels of violence against striking miners in the eighties.
Yep, and that was abhorrent as well. Or does that analogy make what the Spanish police have done okay by you, because, you know, Thatcher.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
A disaster in the making - there are so many nationalist/separatist groups in Europe waiting for their time.
The Spanish government handled things terribly and will cement the desire of many Catalans for independence. Presumably the Basques are watching with interest.
If Europe does fall apart then who knows what to expect?
a lot of these far right groups as there called also didnt exist 5 years ago there must be a reason for it?, apologies as i dont want to sidetrack this thread but just a thought, but i can see them getting in all over europe.
a lot of these far right groups as there called also didnt exist 5 years ago there must be a reason for it?, apologies as i dont want to sidetrack this thread but just a thought, but i can see them getting in all over europe.
They're not all far right but I think the far right is exploiting the dissatisfaction that exists across Europe with immigration and the economy. I do think a number of leaders are not really registering the level of discontent.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
My mistake. I thought that it was formed by the EU, but to be honest the fact that it wasn't is perhaps more concerning. Who has parliamentary oversight of this suprantional paramilitary organisation?
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
I didn't ask about indefinite stay. I deliberately worded my question so as to remove that aspect.
So, can the EGF be deployed in any EU member state? I believe they can. Furthermore, they can be deployed worldwide, as was see in 2010 in Haiti and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
I didn't ask about indefinite stay. I deliberately worded my question so as to remove that aspect.
So, can the EGF be deployed in any EU member state? I believe they can. Furthermore, they can be deployed worldwide, as was see in 2010 in Haiti and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
See above
As I said, unless there is evidence to the contrary I have named two EU states that would be forbidden by their own laws to permit a foreign paramilitary to operate within their borders.
You say you believe they can. I'd suggest you look up some facts before holding a belief that appears to be wrong.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
My mistake. I thought that it was formed by the EU, but to be honest the fact that it wasn't is perhaps more concerning. Who has parliamentary oversight of this suprantional paramilitary organisation?
The signatories to the treaty have oversight. If one country is unhappy with the treaty then they can always withdraw.
Surely if the constitution doesn't forbid it, any foreign force can operate in any country if they are invited in. See the Russians in Syria.
I read the wiki entry about foreign deployments too and international security assistance in Afghanistan is also provided by the UK police and judiciary, its utilising a skill set lacking in the indigenous country.
There is no pan eu conspiracy here. It's an alliance, a small one, and irrelevant to this discussion. The Garda civilia are not acting under the orders of the eu. However much people may want them to be.
Surely if the constitution doesn't forbid it, any foreign force can operate in any country if they are invited in. See the Russians in Syria.
I read the wiki entry about foreign deployments too and international security assistance in Afghanistan is also provided by the UK police and judiciary, its utilising a skill set lacking in the indigenous country.
There is no pan eu conspiracy here. It's an alliance, a small one, and irrelevant to this discussion. The Garda civilia are not acting under the orders of the eu. However much people may want them to be.
The German constitution forbids it and any power in the UK must be enacted by parliament. I must have missed that controversial vote where a British PM brought forward legislation allowing foreign armed paramilitaries powers to operate within the UK. I didn't realise May's premiership was going that badly.
I am unable to discover who flagged my post below for abuse. I would be grateful if anybody can shed some light on why this particular post is offensive or abusive because it was an honest attempt to seek understanding:
If I may mention some of the seeming political aspects though.
It is argued that many Catalans would have voted to remain Spanish, and what has happened is that their simple democratic right is as trashed as those who seek independence. Why not let a simple referendum happen as an exercise in a form of democracy is what is said, what is the harm in that?
Well I don't know the degree of autonomy in Catalonia, and how that compares with other autonomous regions in Spain and elsewhere (like Scotland for example), but as far as I remember the Catalonian political leader said there would be a Unilateral Declaration of Independence within 48 hours of a yes vote. By that declaration putting the 'democratic' voting process right at the heart of events, and by implication the staging of the vote.
So if the vote had been yes, within 48 hours the people of Catalonia would be governed by people they hadn't democratically elected as a national government just like that. 48 hours.
The implications that spring from that are immense, and the 48 hour threat would ensure the kind of chaos that would make Brexit look like a new Audi sliding off the production line.
Let me say again the police actions are inexcusable, but the actions of those who have dragged Spain to this political crisis, including those who suggested the immediacy of independence are irresponsible too. Part of me still believes that there has been an emotional manipulation of romantic nationalism, or did the Catalonian separatists put some meat on the bones by promising 350 million Euros per week to be spent on Catalonian health services if they split from Spain? Or some other specific practical promises that go beyond a Catalonian version of dreaming about blue passports?
The whole exposition of today's events feel like a game changer, and I worry where this is leading.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
I didn't ask about indefinite stay. I deliberately worded my question so as to remove that aspect.
So, can the EGF be deployed in any EU member state? I believe they can. Furthermore, they can be deployed worldwide, as was see in 2010 in Haiti and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
See above
As I said, unless there is evidence to the contrary I have named two EU states that would be forbidden by their own laws to permit a foreign paramilitary to operate within their borders.
You say you believe they can. I'd suggest you look up some facts before holding a belief that appears to be wrong.
In other words, you're unable to give an answer either way. That's fine. There's no issue with that. We can't all be right all of the time.
I'd suggest you look in to The Clingendael Report, which is a bit of an eye opener.
Re the 'look up some facts', how about you state some facts that show that this paramilitary group can't be deployed in an member state seeing as they are not an EU tool:
"The Solidarity Clause of the Lisbon Treaty makes it clear that the force will not only be able to control a population as a police, military and intelligence unit, but it will also be able to be deployed within the EU or outside. Following the Lisbon Treaty, its operations will be subject to very little democratic control by parliaments, and the EU parliament has no say at all since, as Alfredo Vacca the EUROGENDFOR’s Legal Advisor says, it is not an EU asset."
Woke up this morning and hit the news. I also trawled CNN, the BBC and a couple of others as the coverage here is a bit slanted depending on where the news company is based. This morning the news is pretty unchanged from last night. Puigdemont and Jonqueras, the heads of the Catalan government proclaim victory and demand that Europe cease to look the other way as they are about to emerge as an independent state. Meanwhile, Rajoy in Madrid continues to describe yesterday as a refereundum that never happened, and calle the Catalan Independent group to dialogue to avoid further embarassment on their part- as expected, everybody won so things should be great now.
Sadly life is never that simple, The leading unions are going to call a general strike tomorrow. Their logic is to protest police violence, but they were making noises about this last week well before the referendum, so they either expected the pólice violence, or preplanned the next steps on the road to Independence.
I was impressed to see the BBC are the only network to note that the turnout yesterday was 42%, so the 90% yes vote can be qualified by the boycott from the 'no' brigade and that despite the pre election hysteria here, they don't seem to have galvanised much more of the population than they got in 2014, though yesterdays pólice tactics may change that. I've no doubt some people were scared to vote in places like Barcelona. Who wants to lose an eye voting in an election. But there are also a few cases of multiple votes on social media, and the manner of voting - people turning up unannounced in the Street and putting their vote unregistered into a ballot box - is hardly the stuff democratic voting is made of. But the politicians have all entrenched themselves, and after tomorrows strike, which will probably be as bad as yesterdays vote, Puigdemont plans do declare Independence for 100% of the inghabitants of Catalunya even though his turn out was less than half. It's really hard to see anything apart from huge problems coming from thsi. For what it's worth, I imagine at some point the Spanish pólice are going to try and arrest Piugdemont and Jonqueras for sedition. They have stated they are no longer going to pay the Catalan pólice (the Mossos) as they disobeyed orders yesterday, and they are also waving article 155 around which I believe ( @charltonmadrid can correct me if I'm wrong) would suspend the Catalan parliament at least temporarily. I believe they call this a 'dangerous spiral'. Any of you lot got a spare couple of romos for a spanish/english/catalán family with two noisy daughters?
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
I didn't ask about indefinite stay. I deliberately worded my question so as to remove that aspect.
So, can the EGF be deployed in any EU member state? I believe they can. Furthermore, they can be deployed worldwide, as was see in 2010 in Haiti and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
See above
As I said, unless there is evidence to the contrary I have named two EU states that would be forbidden by their own laws to permit a foreign paramilitary to operate within their borders.
You say you believe they can. I'd suggest you look up some facts before holding a belief that appears to be wrong.
In other words, you're unable to give an answer either way. That's fine. There's no issue with that. We can't all be right all of the time.
I'd suggest you look in to The Clingendael Report, which is a bit of an eye opener.
Re the 'look up some facts', how about you state some facts that show that this paramilitary group can't be deployed in an member state seeing as they are not an EU tool:
"The Solidarity Clause of the Lisbon Treaty makes it clear that the force will not only be able to control a population as a police, military and intelligence unit, but it will also be able to be deployed within the EU or outside. Following the Lisbon Treaty, its operations will be subject to very little democratic control by parliaments, and the EU parliament has no say at all since, as Alfredo Vacca the EUROGENDFOR’s Legal Advisor says, it is not an EU asset."
Sorry but like in the Uber thread you are once again talking complete and utter nonsense. There are two EU states where they cannot deploy, that is evidence enough.
People make comparisons with, say, the Scotland or Northern Ireland situations but that's not really helpful.
As ever, "it's the economy stupid". The Catalan region has only 16% of the Spanish population BUT is responsible for around 25% of GDP and 23% of exports. So, for Spain, Catalan independence would be a catastrophe.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
But they do have the power to enter any EU state, right? Despite only being formed by 6 member states.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Could you please point me to the relevant UK legislation that would allow a foreign paramilitary force to assume law and order duties with indefinite stay?
I didn't ask about indefinite stay. I deliberately worded my question so as to remove that aspect.
So, can the EGF be deployed in any EU member state? I believe they can. Furthermore, they can be deployed worldwide, as was see in 2010 in Haiti and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
See above
As I said, unless there is evidence to the contrary I have named two EU states that would be forbidden by their own laws to permit a foreign paramilitary to operate within their borders.
You say you believe they can. I'd suggest you look up some facts before holding a belief that appears to be wrong.
In other words, you're unable to give an answer either way. That's fine. There's no issue with that. We can't all be right all of the time.
I'd suggest you look in to The Clingendael Report, which is a bit of an eye opener.
Re the 'look up some facts', how about you state some facts that show that this paramilitary group can't be deployed in an member state seeing as they are not an EU tool:
"The Solidarity Clause of the Lisbon Treaty makes it clear that the force will not only be able to control a population as a police, military and intelligence unit, but it will also be able to be deployed within the EU or outside. Following the Lisbon Treaty, its operations will be subject to very little democratic control by parliaments, and the EU parliament has no say at all since, as Alfredo Vacca the EUROGENDFOR’s Legal Advisor says, it is not an EU asset."
Sorry but like in the Uber thread you are once again talking complete and utter nonsense. There are two EU states where they cannot deploy, that is evidence enough.
Fiiish in calling someone a liar shocker, whilst at the same time not being able to disprove what the alleged liar has said.
It must be great living in a bubble where you're always wrong right.
they few of you that take your petty squabbles with each other from thread to thread, the rest of us are pig bored with it, and its dominating every single related subject.
Those of you that clearly enjoy that, set up a group inbox with each other and dig away until your hearts content.
Worrying isn't it? A European democracy deploying a paramilitary force to suppress protest and dissent through violence against its own citizens. Thing is, it's operating exactly as intended.
The Gardia Civil is part of the Euro Gendarme Force, a multinational paramilitary police force which is able to enter any EU member state, including the UK, at the request of the host government. Although that government has no powers to actually get them to leave once deployed. Its another reason I think we are better off outside the EU. The equipment of a police state is in place, we saw it being used today.
In case anyone reads this and thinks this is true, it isn't. The EGF was formed outside the EU and has only a handful of members. They certainly do not have the power to enter any EU state and stay indefinitely.
My mistake. I thought that it was formed by the EU, but to be honest the fact that it wasn't is perhaps more concerning. Who has parliamentary oversight of this suprantional paramilitary organisation?
they few of you that take your petty squabbles with each other from thread to thread, the rest of us are pig bored with it, and its dominating every single related subject.
Those of you that clearly enjoy that, set up a group inbox with each other and dig away until your hearts content.
Comments
The Spanish government handled things terribly and will cement the desire of many Catalans for independence. Presumably the Basques are watching with interest.
If Europe does fall apart then who knows what to expect?
The next week in Spain will be interesting...
The biggest fear is Europe splintering.
In fact, they can be deployed worldwide. As was seen in 2010 when they were deployed to Haiti (albeit for post relief security efforts).
Or how your statement is reconciled against the German constitution that forbids the use of paramilitaries as police forces?
You say you believe they can. I'd suggest you look up some facts before holding a belief that appears to be wrong.
I read the wiki entry about foreign deployments too and international security assistance in Afghanistan is also provided by the UK police and judiciary, its utilising a skill set lacking in the indigenous country.
There is no pan eu conspiracy here. It's an alliance, a small one, and irrelevant to this discussion. The Garda civilia are not acting under the orders of the eu. However much people may want them to be.
I'd suggest you look in to The Clingendael Report, which is a bit of an eye opener.
Re the 'look up some facts', how about you state some facts that show that this paramilitary group can't be deployed in an member state seeing as they are not an EU tool:
"The Solidarity Clause of the Lisbon Treaty makes it clear that the force will not only be able to control a population as a police, military and intelligence unit, but it will also be able to be deployed within the EU or outside. Following the Lisbon Treaty, its operations will be subject to very little democratic control by parliaments, and the EU parliament has no say at all since, as Alfredo Vacca the EUROGENDFOR’s Legal Advisor says, it is not an EU asset."
Sadly life is never that simple, The leading unions are going to call a general strike tomorrow. Their logic is to protest police violence, but they were making noises about this last week well before the referendum, so they either expected the pólice violence, or preplanned the next steps on the road to Independence.
I was impressed to see the BBC are the only network to note that the turnout yesterday was 42%, so the 90% yes vote can be qualified by the boycott from the 'no' brigade and that despite the pre election hysteria here, they don't seem to have galvanised much more of the population than they got in 2014, though yesterdays pólice tactics may change that. I've no doubt some people were scared to vote in places like Barcelona. Who wants to lose an eye voting in an election. But there are also a few cases of multiple votes on social media, and the manner of voting - people turning up unannounced in the Street and putting their vote unregistered into a ballot box - is hardly the stuff democratic voting is made of. But the politicians have all entrenched themselves, and after tomorrows strike, which will probably be as bad as yesterdays vote, Puigdemont plans do declare Independence for 100% of the inghabitants of Catalunya even though his turn out was less than half. It's really hard to see anything apart from huge problems coming from thsi. For what it's worth, I imagine at some point the Spanish pólice are going to try and arrest Piugdemont and Jonqueras for sedition. They have stated they are no longer going to pay the Catalan pólice (the Mossos) as they disobeyed orders yesterday, and they are also waving article 155 around which I believe ( @charltonmadrid can correct me if I'm wrong) would suspend the Catalan parliament at least temporarily. I believe they call this a 'dangerous spiral'. Any of you lot got a spare couple of romos for a spanish/english/catalán family with two noisy daughters?
People make comparisons with, say, the Scotland or Northern Ireland situations but that's not really helpful.
As ever, "it's the economy stupid". The Catalan region has only 16% of the Spanish population BUT is responsible for around 25% of GDP and 23% of exports. So, for Spain, Catalan independence would be a catastrophe.
It must be great living in a bubble where you're always
wrongright.Too right. I'm fed up supporting the rest of the country with my taxes.
Those of you that clearly enjoy that, set up a group inbox with each other and dig away until your hearts content.
thanks for the update @ken_shabby