Probably not getting the coverage of Brexit or hurricane Irma but it's all set to go off here, The Catalan seperatist movement have been pushing for this ever more insistantly for years, despite the fact they have always been a minority in Catalunya. They have now pushed ahead with a referéndum, declared ilegal (the Spanish constitution, signed by the Catalans, refutes it) which will probably take place in some form on sunday.
The Spanish government are putting ever more obstacles in place, and the temperatura is rising as politicians on both sides have merrily painted themselves into corners they will have terrible difficulty getting out of without losing a lot of face. Madrid have grabbed loads of voting papers, begun to order schools thought to be used as poll stations to be closed on sunday, and demanded the Catalan pólice (the Mossos d'Esquadra) get behind law and order against the vote. In Catalunya, the papers continue to be distributed and the Catalans are planning if all else fails to vote with cardboard boxes in the Street. Just to put the thing on to boil, they have also declared that any sort of yes majority, without any sort of caucus or control, will automatically lead to a declaration of independance within 48 hours. Call me old fashioned but that sounds like a coup d'etat.
On the No side, the other parties have told everyone not to vote to avoid legitimising what looks like a pretty dodgy referéndum - one that would look shabby in North Korea let alone southern Europe. I watched Brexit from here and the arguements used (and the lies told) were pathetic, but here we have not even heard a debate, just a whole load of rhetoric straight out of Braveheart.
Tis may all blow over, but sunday will almost certainly involve a yes vote, despite almost no one having been advised they are called to vote, or even to work in the polling stations. From there, the logical step would be the Independance declaration, which would be unlikely to have much credit outside the Catalan borders.
Anyone over in Brexit land got an opinión?
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You were doing fine until the B word
I would imagine Catalonia is the only region that could realistically support itself financially if it became independent from Spain. The election you're describing sounds ridiculous though - if it really is as unregulated as you've described then it'll be a landslide "Yes" vote as the leavers will probably be the only ones who'd take the time to vote in an election that lacks any official credibility.
I'm inclined to think that the Spanish government should let the Catalans have an official referendum, on the basis that the inevitable "Remain" majority vote would put the issue to bed, but I guess that's what David Cameron's thinking was before the Brexit referendum.
If they’re confident it wouldn’t win, as polls show, then why create all this hassle?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172vghb5qmdg21
I take it they'll kick out all of the non Catalans, if they become independent, to show just how insular they are and that no outsiders are welcome.
Any news on how the border with the rest of Spain will work?
I had a few Charlton supporting mates over at the weekend, who were impressed to find themselves in a sort of 1936 pre civil war ambience, with pubs and craft ales. One of them offered a good point that these days, a lot of elections tend to get swayed by passion rather than arguement. Certainly true now as given the Spanish governments somewhat heavy handed responses, they wouldn't dare offer a referéndum until passions have subsided a lot, which doesn't look likely. Besides, how many modern states are prepared to let themselves be dismembered by the richest áreas breaking away. Should the Catalans achieve Independence, the Basques with their long history of antipathy to Madrid, would demand to follow.
I've sort of found myself siding passively with Madrid. The Independence movement have (in my opinión) been a lot cleverer tan Madrid. They now seem to be hell bent in provoking reactions, which inevitably occur, and which are then denounced as a return to dictatorship. However, essentially, the Generalitat (Catalan Parliament) have broken the law by carrying the referéndum through, which is a pretty dodgy way for a law making body to behave. The consequences provoked look to me like the typical reaction the rest of us get when we drive too fast or fraudulently declare taxes, but then my blood is pure South London, not Catalunya, so the Deep passions aren't mine.
I'm sort of hoping this thread doesn't get mixed with Brexit (although the only person who has mentioned it so far is me) but I'm also hoping to hear from @CharltonMadrid for a view from the capital, as I remember previously his view on the contributions to Spain made by Catalunya don't coincide with mine or the population here. Bit of input from Madrid would be wlecome.
Referenda on anything more complex than voting on changing something like the national flag are terrible. You're effectively taking a difficult issue that divides a nation, then polarise the debate then give each side millions of pounds to abuse the other side. The result will be unsatisfactory to at least half the nation and the political climate becomes far more tribal in the aftermath. Anyone who thinks either the Independence or EU referenda in this country really needs their head examined.
It would be abhorrent to think that they'd have to live by the law of the land they live in.
I'll watch this one very closely.
Although the vote is non-binding, if it is a Yes it will likely be carried by smaller towns and the Girona/Lleida region rather than the more cosmopolitan Barcelona. Be very interesting to see what happens, and also how the Basque region reacts as a marker for their own independence hopes.
Even though he fought in Burma in the end my father was prepared to be part of the biggest anti fascist force this country has ever seen.
He used to go to Millwall one week and Charlton the next back in the day.