Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
My situation may be different to CM's as my wife is Czech, so I can stay here and move around Schengen indefinitely while our marriage is alive, his wife as I recall is not an EU, so he has a lot more at risk here. On top of that it seems that I should be able to get Czech citizenship easily enough. When it comes to citizenship each country has its own rules.
Yes, that's our case and her right to work and receive healthcare is also dependent on being married to an EU citizen. Plus we are currently waiting to be matched for adoption. So all in all Brexit really has the capacity to be completely life changing for us.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
Luckily May can’t just call a referendum then, it would need the relevant legislation approved by Parliament and there’s no chance of the house approving a referendum with only those options on the ballot paper.
Then a vote of no confidence would be called and the government would fall
That would require a number of Tories to vote to put their own jobs on the line in a GE, which won’t happen
Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
My situation may be different to CM's as my wife is Czech, so I can stay here and move around Schengen indefinitely while our marriage is alive, his wife as I recall is not an EU, so he has a lot more at risk here. On top of that it seems that I should be able to get Czech citizenship easily enough. When it comes to citizenship each country has its own rules.
Yes, that's our case and her right to work and receive healthcare is also dependent on being married to an EU citizen. Plus we are currently waiting to be matched for adoption. So all in all Brexit really has the capacity to be completely life changing for us.
Hope things work out for you @CharltonMadrid can't be easy. Hopefully the Spanish are sensible.
One of the problems with the second referendum is that it is proposed by remainers. The reality is that it is the only clear way for the country to move out of the stalemate it is currently in. And it provides the opportunity for Leavers to re-affirm their original vote and send the message to politicians to get on with it. Everybody has to face the facts here- we are stuck - there is no point arguing for what sort of Brexit we want forever - we have to break up the blockage!
And if the leave voters win again, they should then have to reaffirm it every year until they lose.
What happens by the way, if the second referendum result is 52-48 in favour of remain? We remain or have another?
But they wouldn't have to as we would have left. The problem is somebody has to get a grip on reality here. I'll give it to you and feel free to tell me what is wrong with what follows. There are not the numbers for the ERG's hard Brexit, There are not the numbers for May's Brexit, there are not the numbers for Labours Customs Union Brexit, There are not the numbers for just calling Brexit off. Which of these options are going to carry the day? - it seems pretty clear that none of them will unless there is an external nudge.
The sooner people woke up and smelt the coffee the better. It isn't ideal, I agree, but there isn't an alternative.
Then just leave with no deal. The world won't fall apart & seeing as the EU27 & the UK will want to make it work then I'm sure it will.
Heard take today from a teacher of sixth formers (so don't shoot the messenger) that they all want to vote leave, and the harder the better if there's a second referendum. Their single reason is that they want the economy to tank so they may be able to afford a house. I appreciate this is small sample size, anecdotal evidence and therefore next to useless, however a few thoughts:
A) it's awful if the dream of owning a house is predicated on a financial crash, and all that entails.
I don't think they thought it through
C) I don't think the results of any second referendum are in the bag.
How do they expect to get a mortgage in a financial crash?
Read this on a forum recently. Some 20 something was saying they wanted a hard Brexit; house prices would fall 30% (Thanks Mr Carney....they won't btw) & they woukd pick up a bargain. It was explained to them that credit would tighten, bigger deposits would be needed & they may also be made redundant.
What are the chances of either the Tory ERG members or the Tory Remainers (or both) supporting a no-confidence vote in the government as this would probably lead to a general election. In that case Theresa May would have to resign (as she has promised not too stand at the next election) clearing the way for a new leader who is sympathetic to their cause.
They would then of course have to win the ensuing election, but perhaps they see that as being more likely than getting what they want under May. For the ERG it is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a hard Brexit.
Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
My situation may be different to CM's as my wife is Czech, so I can stay here and move around Schengen indefinitely while our marriage is alive, his wife as I recall is not an EU, so he has a lot more at risk here. On top of that it seems that I should be able to get Czech citizenship easily enough. When it comes to citizenship each country has its own rules.
What are the chances of either the Tory ERG members or the Tory Remainers (or both) supporting a no-confidence vote in the government as this would probably lead to a general election. In that case Theresa May would have to resign (as she has promised not too stand at the next election) clearing the way for a new leader who is sympathetic to their cause.
They would then of course have to win the ensuing election, but perhaps they see that as being more likely than getting what they want under May. For the ERG it is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a hard Brexit.
I believe May said she wouldn't stand at the 2022 General Election.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
2 - united Ireland (allowing NI to remain within the EU) & an independent Scotland within the EU, that’s what both of those home nations voted for and my understanding of Brexit logic suggests it would be entirely undemocratic to ignore the will of the people.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
2 - united Ireland (allowing NI to remain within the EU) & an independent Scotland within the EU, that’s what both of those home nations voted for and my understanding of Brexit logic suggests it would be entirely undemocratic to ignore the will of the people.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
London voted Remain. So can London stay with Scotland in the EU please? And we can watch the provinces expire.
Meanwhile for @McBobbin . Honest i am not shooting the messenger, but I asked my nephew over WhatsApp about your sixth form class. Here is the verbatim:
Hi Louis. Funny sounding question for you. When you were a sixth former at school, did you have a good idea about the cost of housing? And what about your classmates? Was it something you discussed with each other or in class?
LOL not at all. You dont have the slightest clue about housing until unless you have been exposed to it in some way - IE living on your own, or yoh have family the rents out properties etc. No1 in 6th form has a clue about it otherwise. Most people, even in a grammar school, will be focussed on "what uni do I go / do I want to go abroad / what do I want to study" I personally would follow cost of housing vaguely, but had very little understanding about it from a personal perspective, everything I knew was how economics would relate to housing market etc.
It was never, ever ever discussed amongst friends in 6th form. Only uni.
I'm starting to wonder about that teacher...:-)
Possible contender for CharltonLife's Didn't Happen Award for 2018?
Button it. Thanks for that @PragueAddick the teachers cool, but since she's not a UK national and is rather miffed with it all maybe she brought the subject up (house prices) as I say it was in the news.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
2 - united Ireland (allowing NI to remain within the EU) & an independent Scotland within the EU, that’s what both of those home nations voted for and my understanding of Brexit logic suggests it would be entirely undemocratic to ignore the will of the people.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
London voted Remain. So can London stay with Scotland in the EU please? And we can watch the provinces expire.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
2 - united Ireland (allowing NI to remain within the EU) & an independent Scotland within the EU, that’s what both of those home nations voted for and my understanding of Brexit logic suggests it would be entirely undemocratic to ignore the will of the people.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
London voted Remain. So can London stay with Scotland in the EU please? And we can watch the provinces expire.
Would I need a visa when going to The Valley, or do you reckon I could have dual nationality?
People like this **** and uber **** Johnson throw out a few verbose articulations doused with the smattering of Latin their excessively expensive educations provided for and have the masses going weak and the knees and hypnotised that they're the ones to look out for their prospects and interests.
We've been brainwashed for centuries that the upper classes know best or elicit some kind of unchecked intellectual superiority when in fact they are as riddled with as many moronic chancers and scheming wrong uns as the other sections of society.
I fell for the seductive charm and harmless charisma gormless Boris years ago as he was an oasis in a dirth of bland corporate career politicians.
He's the worst of the lot and this Mogg Rees clown is not far behind.
People like this **** and uber **** Johnson throw out a few verbose articulations doused with the smattering of Latin their excessively expensive educations provided for and have the masses going weak and the knees and hypnotised that they're the ones to look out for their prospects and interests.
We've been brainwashed for centuries that the upper classes know best or elicit some kind of unchecked intellectual superiority when in fact they are as riddled with as many moronic chancers and scheming wrong uns as the other sections of society.
I fell for the seductive charm and harmless charisma gormless Boris years ago as he was an oasis in a dirth of bland corporate career politicians.
He's the worst of the lot and this Mogg Rees clown is not far behind.
They do not care about us and our ilk one iota.
I have to disagree with the bolded part Rodders, I think they're worse, as they know they can get away with their bull****, so push it more than most.
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
Correct. But the additional cost of €7 for no additional perceivable benefit is borderline theft.
You mentioned the magic word "border" which Brexiteers cannot deal with. No deal means no Irish border, which means EU members of WTO will veto any trade deal we try to make until Boris invents X-ray CCTV cameras that csn identify any goods crossing the border without a trusted trader stamp.
Right, so let’s just revoke Article 50 now that we know we can.
So, are you saying we are stuck in the EU for evermore, seeing as it's impossible to leave. Or perhaps we should just defer the date of leaving until either..
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
2 - united Ireland (allowing NI to remain within the EU) & an independent Scotland within the EU, that’s what both of those home nations voted for and my understanding of Brexit logic suggests it would be entirely undemocratic to ignore the will of the people.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
London voted Remain. So can London stay with Scotland in the EU please? And we can watch the provinces expire.
Would I need a visa when going to The Valley, or do you reckon I could have dual nationality?
Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
My situation may be different to CM's as my wife is Czech, so I can stay here and move around Schengen indefinitely while our marriage is alive, his wife as I recall is not an EU, so he has a lot more at risk here. On top of that it seems that I should be able to get Czech citizenship easily enough. When it comes to citizenship each country has its own rules.
Yes, that's our case and her right to work and receive healthcare is also dependent on being married to an EU citizen. Plus we are currently waiting to be matched for adoption. So all in all Brexit really has the capacity to be completely life changing for us.
Hope things work out for you @CharltonMadrid can't be easy. Hopefully the Spanish are sensible.
Cheers mate. The uncertainty that Brexit is adding to our lives is worrying though people in Spain have been fantastic. This board has been a really useful, and generally supportive, source of information as well.
Meanwhile for @McBobbin . Honest i am not shooting the messenger, but I asked my nephew over WhatsApp about your sixth form class. Here is the verbatim:
Hi Louis. Funny sounding question for you. When you were a sixth former at school, did you have a good idea about the cost of housing? And what about your classmates? Was it something you discussed with each other or in class?
LOL not at all. You dont have the slightest clue about housing until unless you have been exposed to it in some way - IE living on your own, or yoh have family the rents out properties etc. No1 in 6th form has a clue about it otherwise. Most people, even in a grammar school, will be focussed on "what uni do I go / do I want to go abroad / what do I want to study" I personally would follow cost of housing vaguely, but had very little understanding about it from a personal perspective, everything I knew was how economics would relate to housing market etc.
It was never, ever ever discussed amongst friends in 6th form. Only uni.
I'm starting to wonder about that teacher...:-)
Possible contender for CharltonLife's Didn't Happen Award for 2018?
Button it. Thanks for that @PragueAddick the teachers cool, but since she's not a UK national and is rather miffed with it all maybe she brought the subject up (house prices) as I say it was in the news.
T'was just an interesting anecdote, and I think we are all on alert to whether or not the polls are accurate this time. The figure Heseltine quoted was 70% young people for Remain. So 100% for Hard Brexit really would be very odd. When I told my nephew why I was asking he pronouced "bollocks" and immediately suggested that it was all down to the teacher. But then my nephew is a Remain Ultra who doesn't so much take no prisoners as shoot on sight of dissent. I have a couple of times asked him if he isn't scretly posting on CL using the handle @Fiiish
One of the problems with the second referendum is that it is proposed by remainers. The reality is that it is the only clear way for the country to move out of the stalemate it is currently in. And it provides the opportunity for Leavers to re-affirm their original vote and send the message to politicians to get on with it. Everybody has to face the facts here- we are stuck - there is no point arguing for what sort of Brexit we want forever - we have to break up the blockage!
And if the leave voters win again, they should then have to reaffirm it every year until they lose.
What happens by the way, if the second referendum result is 52-48 in favour of remain? We remain or have another?
But they wouldn't have to as we would have left. The problem is somebody has to get a grip on reality here. I'll give it to you and feel free to tell me what is wrong with what follows. There are not the numbers for the ERG's hard Brexit, There are not the numbers for May's Brexit, there are not the numbers for Labours Customs Union Brexit, There are not the numbers for just calling Brexit off. Which of these options are going to carry the day? - it seems pretty clear that none of them will unless there is an external nudge.
The sooner people woke up and smelt the coffee the better. It isn't ideal, I agree, but there isn't an alternative.
Then just leave with no deal. The world won't fall apart & seeing as the EU27 & the UK will want to make it work then I'm sure it will.
After leaving with no deal how would the UK manage the 310 mile land border with the EU?
Comments
But thats all project fear bollox anyway.
They would then of course have to win the ensuing election, but perhaps they see that as being more likely than getting what they want under May. For the ERG it is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a hard Brexit.
To the Spanish she is an EU or from the EEUU!
Travel insurance should always be taken out as EHIC doesn't cover all costs, such as loss, theft or damage to personal belongings and travel insurance also usually covers curtailment, cancellation and a ton of other benefits.
You're a fool to travel without it.
1) Border issues can be sorted with this magic "eye in the sky" system.
Or
2) There is a united Ireland, so that NI is not part of the UK & there can be a border in the Irish Sea.
Which will be handy as any Election from now on that I take part in, I will simply ignore the result. So when Labour get in , put up Income Tax by 20% I'll just not pay it as I won't recognise the decision taken by the electorate. Fair enough.
Again, to reinforce the point made earlier that May is incapable of interacting with any kind of intelligent life.
England and Wales get to leave the EU without any Irish border complications and see out the death throes of an Empire that ceased to exist anywhere but the minds of right wingers 70 odd years ago.
We've been brainwashed for centuries that the upper classes know best or elicit some kind of unchecked intellectual superiority when in fact they are as riddled with as many moronic chancers and scheming wrong uns as the other sections of society.
I fell for the seductive charm and harmless charisma gormless Boris years ago as he was an oasis in a dirth of bland corporate career politicians.
He's the worst of the lot and this Mogg Rees clown is not far behind.
They do not care about us and our ilk one iota.