Anybody any idea whether there will continue to be reciprocal medical arrangements after Brexit? If not, insurance companies will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
Say May was to bring the vote forwards on her plan to next week - what does she do when it is defeated? I suspect she wants the time to think of the answer to that question!
So, here's a few questions for Brexiters, for whom "trading on WTO rules" is better than being a member of the EU and benefiting from - among other things - the Single Market, the Customs Union, Free Movement and European elections.
Before answering, please take a look at today's letter from the Appellate Body Chair of the WTO. (You've probably read it already, because you are such fans of the WTO, but here it is again, in case you haven't had the chance yet).
1. What do you think the "institutional crisis" mentioned in the letter refers to?
2. The letter refers to an "effective enforcement mechanism" of the WTO. I don't know what that is. But it sounds like some sort of unaccountable group of bureaucrats landing countries with red tape. So can you explain why it is preferable (ie fairer, more equitable, reliable or honest) than the European Court of Justice?
3. The Appellate Body Secretariat of the WTO is short of staff. Why is that preferable to how the EU manages its judicial workload?
4. As you know (probably) Ujal Singh Bhatia's tenure as Chair of the Appellate Body finishes at the end of this month. Who did you vote for as his replacement? (I know you have complained that the EU is undemocratic, so we don't need to revisit that - but obviously you meant "undemocratic in comparison to the organisation we are going to tie our future to". So, you must have voted. Right?) And are you happy about Hong Zhao's appointment to replace him? And Thomas Graham's appointment to replace her?
Say May was to bring the vote forwards on her plan to next week - what does she do when it is defeated? I suspect she wants the time to think of the answer to that question!
She will resign.
I doubt it, but the danger for her is that her part in this sorry saga would be over and the house would take over towards the referendum that I think is unavoidable unless somebody has a rabbit they can pull out of the hat. Mind you, you might think on a personal level that would be a good thing for her. The more you think about it, the vote of no confidence from her own MPs should have waited until he deal was face down in the water - if they had any tactical nous that is, which they clearly don't.
Say May was to bring the vote forwards on her plan to next week - what does she do when it is defeated? I suspect she wants the time to think of the answer to that question!
She will resign.
I doubt it, but the danger for her is that her part in this sorry saga would be over and the house would take over towards the referendum that I think is unavoidable unless somebody has a rabbit they can pull out of the hat. Mind you, you might think on a personal level that would be a good thing for her. The more you think about it, the vote of no confidence from her own MPs should have waited until he deal was face down in the water - if they had any tactical nous that is, which they clearly don't.
She's pinning her future on getting this deal through parliament. She's taken the lead on things. It's draining her physically and mentally. I think she sees this as her Churchillian moment! If it fails. She goes and a second referendum is a very real possibility imo.
What’s happened now gives a lot more creedance to the conspiracy that May and her camp engineered the vote of no confidence. Had that gone ahead now rather than a few days ago I’m sure she would have been much closer to disaster.
Only way forward now is to give this back to the people.
Labours stance is just as much a no goer. There will be no further negotiations.
Say May was to bring the vote forwards on her plan to next week - what does she do when it is defeated? I suspect she wants the time to think of the answer to that question!
She will resign.
I doubt it, but the danger for her is that her part in this sorry saga would be over and the house would take over towards the referendum that I think is unavoidable unless somebody has a rabbit they can pull out of the hat. Mind you, you might think on a personal level that would be a good thing for her. The more you think about it, the vote of no confidence from her own MPs should have waited until he deal was face down in the water - if they had any tactical nous that is, which they clearly don't.
She's pinning her future on getting this deal through parliament. She's taken the lead on things. It's draining her physically and mentally. I think she sees this as her Churchillian moment! If it fails. She goes and a second referendum is a very real possibility imo.
She has no political future - she's pinning her legacy on it. Good luck with that!
But everybody knows it is going to fail. There is no way dissenting MPs are going to accept assurances without material changes given how entrenched their positions are. Her best bet would be to announce on Monday that she tried but realises it won't get passed so is withdrawing it. Doing that in a months time is going to make her look stupid, and a heavy defeat - or any defeat at that time will do the same.
If she stands up and says she has done her best but it is now for the house to find a solution, she will at least take some pressure off herself that doesn't need to be there anymore. But she has a better last ditch option, and that is to put her plan to the people, reluctantly as Parliament clearly can't resolve the issue.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
All along the stubborn and blinkered woman has put her name ahead of consensus and has seemed intent on going down in history as the PM that delivered. She has bypassed her Brexit secretary’s in negotiations and used up three in the process. She is still even now is insisting that further clarification and discussion are possible. The woman is in complete denial.
She can’t be ousted. Won’t resign and has already herself time limited her premiership.
I think the chances of a no Brexit via a revocation of Article 50 are zero and the chances of a no Brexit through a new referendum are receding not gaining.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
All along the stubborn and blinkered woman has put her name ahead of consensus and has seemed intent on going down in history as the PM that delivered. She has bypassed her Brexit secretary’s in negotiations and used up three in the process.
She can’t be ousted. Won’t resign and has already herself time limited her premiership.
I think the chances of a no Brexit via a revocation of Article 50 are zero and the chances of a no Brexit through a new referendum are receding not gaining.
But everybody knows it is going to fail. There is no way dissenting MPs are going to accept assurances without material changes given how entrenched their positions are. Her best bet would be to announce on Monday that she tried but realises it won't get passed so is withdrawing it. Doing that in a months time is going to make her look stupid, and a heavy defeat - or any defeat at that time will do the same.
If she stands up and says she has done her best but it is now for the house to find a solution, she will at least take some pressure off herself that doesn't need to be there anymore. But she has a better last ditch option, and that is to put her plan to the people, reluctantly as Parliament clearly can't resolve the issue.
Im afraid she is not going to give in that easily . Shes going to stall stall and stall some more until she thinks she can get her deal through.
If she is going to get the DUP onside the backstop has to go. There is no other way. And you have to add a significant number of her own MPs to that. The EU has clearly stated that won't happen. They are not going to look like idiots and change that. Her deal is dead, not resting, it is dead.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
All along the stubborn and blinkered woman has put her name ahead of consensus and has seemed intent on going down in history as the PM that delivered. She has bypassed her Brexit secretary’s in negotiations and used up three in the process.
She can’t be ousted. Won’t resign and has already herself time limited her premiership.
I think the chances of a no Brexit via a revocation of Article 50 are zero and the chances of a no Brexit through a new referendum are receding not gaining.
If she did that the house would rebel.
Would they ? I have no trust in any of them doing the right thing for the country. We know for a fact the Conservatives will do absolutely anything to retain power. Labour wont do anything other than what they think helps them get into power. Corbyn might as well be wrapped in bandages from head to toe. He’s the invisible man.
I would guess she’s leaving it a while so the closer to the date it is the more people think her deal is the only deal for Brexit and this sway some of the hard liners to her banner, she can also accuse Labour of torpedoing Brexit
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
It’s just how I can see May making sure “The referendum is delivered “ she is maniacally obsessed.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
All along the stubborn and blinkered woman has put her name ahead of consensus and has seemed intent on going down in history as the PM that delivered. She has bypassed her Brexit secretary’s in negotiations and used up three in the process.
She can’t be ousted. Won’t resign and has already herself time limited her premiership.
I think the chances of a no Brexit via a revocation of Article 50 are zero and the chances of a no Brexit through a new referendum are receding not gaining.
If she did that the house would rebel.
Would they ? I have no trust in any of them doing the right thing for the country. We know for a fact the Conservatives will do absolutely anything to retain power. Labour wont do anything other than what they think helps them get into power. Corbyn might as well be wrapped in bandages from head to toe. He’s the invisible man.
I'm pretty sure they would - wouldn't put it past her trying - she is at a point where she hasn't much to loose.
Perhaps I’m not understanding this correctly but there’s a fee being imposed of 7euro for brits crossing the border into Europe, I assume this applies also for the northern Irish entering Southern Ireland. Seems a bit weird to me a I thought it was meant to be borderless crossing, so how will the Europeans know who to charge and who not to? Or if that doesn’t apply to NI then surely they are being treated differently to main land Britain? Confused not understanding probably?
It looks like it's a new Schengen rule. Ireland is not in Schengen. Not sure if people travelling from Ireland will require this form if they travel to France etc
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
My situation may be different to CM's as my wife is Czech, so I can stay here and move around Schengen indefinitely while our marriage is alive, his wife as I recall is not an EU, so he has a lot more at risk here. On top of that it seems that I should be able to get Czech citizenship easily enough. When it comes to citizenship each country has its own rules.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
It’s just how I can see May making sure “The referendum is delivered “ she is maniacally obsessed.
It's looking more and more certain that the WA will fail first time. It looks like May will attempt to bounce it through second time as time runs out: WA or No Deal?
Peston on Wednesday showed a clear analysis of the various tribes in Westminster, each with 100-175 MPs. There's a Labour permanent CU tribe of c. 150-175 and a People's vote (Remain) tribe with 125. It's possible that they might attempt a coup between them albeit unlikely.
Talking to people, and reading this board which represent ordinary opinions, can we be sure that the country is ready for a second referendum? So much bullshit, conflation and misunderstanding that perhaps we need to leave... and then have a vote or GE at the end of transition?
Any idea if this payment to visit Europe thing will be the case for UK citizens living in EU countries who want to visit other EU countries?
That's what I asked myself, but almost certainly we are Ok because we are all inside Schengen. It's just when you want to go 'home" that it starts to become a bureaucracy.
I would suppose too, that if you are flying back to Spain from the UK, it ought to be enough at the airport to produce a permanent residency card, because you are going to your real current 'home' but I wouldn't count on it without it being very specifically made clear first. And if you went back by train, they could say 'how can we be sure you are not secretly going somewhere else, you suspicious looking character?"
My wife is non-EU but has an Austrian residence card. Coming back from the UK she just shows that, together with the passport, and there has never been a problem. I don't see why Brits would be treated any differently, assuming they have a residence permit.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
It’s just how I can see May making sure “The referendum is delivered “ she is maniacally obsessed.
It's looking more and more certain that the WA will fail first time. It looks like May will attempt to bounce it through second time as time runs out: WA or No Deal?
Peston on Wednesday showed a clear analysis of the various tribes in Westminster, each with 100-175 MPs. There's a Labour permanent CU tribe of c. 150-175 and a People's vote (Remain) tribe with 125. It's possible that they might attempt a coup between them albeit unlikely.
Talking to people, and reading this board which represent ordinary opinions, can we be sure that the country is ready for a second referendum? So much bullshit, conflation and misunderstanding that perhaps we need to leave... and then have a vote or GE at the end of transition?
Increasingly, I think that's the view in EU countries too. They are sick of..not of us as a people at all, but of our political class, especially the Brexit ultras. And they can withstand the shock better than the UK can. Yet in the longer term, they would rather we were with them in a bloc. In that respect Blair was right today.
Say May was to bring the vote forwards on her plan to next week - what does she do when it is defeated? I suspect she wants the time to think of the answer to that question!
She will resign.
I doubt it, but the danger for her is that her part in this sorry saga would be over and the house would take over towards the referendum that I think is unavoidable unless somebody has a rabbit they can pull out of the hat. Mind you, you might think on a personal level that would be a good thing for her. The more you think about it, the vote of no confidence from her own MPs should have waited until he deal was face down in the water - if they had any tactical nous that is, which they clearly don't.
She's pinning her future on getting this deal through parliament. She's taken the lead on things. It's draining her physically and mentally. I think she sees this as her Churchillian moment! If it fails. She goes and a second referendum is a very real possibility imo.
If she goes then you very likely end up with a Brexiteer as PM and then there would be very little chance of a referendum.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
Luckily May can’t just call a referendum then, it would need the relevant legislation approved by Parliament and there’s no chance of the house approving a referendum with only those options on the ballot paper.
When the WA fails to pass the HoC vote on 14th January, May only has one place to go in order to get HER deal through and that is to hold a referendum with only HER deal and no deal on the ballot paper.
Only two options? So only those who voted to leave, will be allowed to vote? How many spoilt papers will there be?
Luckily May can’t just call a referendum then, it would need the relevant legislation approved by Parliament and there’s no chance of the house approving a referendum with only those options on the ballot paper.
Then a vote of no confidence would be called and the government would fall
Comments
It looks like the answer to my question above is no, they won't need it as they are EU citizens.
It's not very clear on the answers for @PragueAddick and @CharltonMadrid . I think it will ultimately be decided by their status in the EU after the UK leaves
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qOyv69Cn-5-OoQldwely301TWyj5heTZ/view
Before answering, please take a look at today's letter from the Appellate Body Chair of the WTO. (You've probably read it already, because you are such fans of the WTO, but here it is again, in case you haven't had the chance yet).
1. What do you think the "institutional crisis" mentioned in the letter refers to?
2. The letter refers to an "effective enforcement mechanism" of the WTO. I don't know what that is. But it sounds like some sort of unaccountable group of bureaucrats landing countries with red tape. So can you explain why it is preferable (ie fairer, more equitable, reliable or honest) than the European Court of Justice?
3. The Appellate Body Secretariat of the WTO is short of staff. Why is that preferable to how the EU manages its judicial workload?
4. As you know (probably) Ujal Singh Bhatia's tenure as Chair of the Appellate Body finishes at the end of this month. Who did you vote for as his replacement? (I know you have complained that the EU is undemocratic, so we don't need to revisit that - but obviously you meant "undemocratic in comparison to the organisation we are going to tie our future to". So, you must have voted. Right?) And are you happy about Hong Zhao's appointment to replace him? And Thomas Graham's appointment to replace her?
It's draining her physically and mentally. I think she sees this as her Churchillian moment!
If it fails. She goes and a second referendum is a very real possibility imo.
If she stands up and says she has done her best but it is now for the house to find a solution, she will at least take some pressure off herself that doesn't need to be there anymore. But she has a better last ditch option, and that is to put her plan to the people, reluctantly as Parliament clearly can't resolve the issue.
All along the stubborn and blinkered woman has put her name ahead of consensus and has seemed intent on going down in history as the PM that delivered. She has bypassed her Brexit secretary’s in negotiations and used up three in the process. She is still even now is insisting that further clarification and discussion are possible. The woman is in complete denial.
She can’t be ousted. Won’t resign and has already herself time limited her premiership.
I think the chances of a no Brexit via a revocation of Article 50 are zero and the chances of a no Brexit through a new referendum are receding not gaining.
Peston on Wednesday showed a clear analysis of the various tribes in Westminster, each with 100-175 MPs. There's a Labour permanent CU tribe of c. 150-175 and a People's vote (Remain) tribe with 125. It's possible that they might attempt a coup between them albeit unlikely.
Talking to people, and reading this board which represent ordinary opinions, can we be sure that the country is ready for a second referendum? So much bullshit, conflation and misunderstanding that perhaps we need to leave... and then have a vote or GE at the end of transition?
Luckily May can’t just call a referendum then, it would need the relevant legislation approved by Parliament and there’s no chance of the house approving a referendum with only those options on the ballot paper.