Bear in mind that is only to travel. Work, study, and other non-tourist visas will generally be down to individual countries unless some agreement is made.
Also bear in mind that it's only that cost every three years.
These things make the headlines but in the grand scheme of things are completely inconsequential to an individual.
Think how many millions of Brits travel from Britain to the EU within a 3 year period. Nice little money spinner for the EU.
For a family of 5 that's an extra 35 quid on top of their holiday. Might not seem a lot to you but it's still a total waste of money with zero tangible benefits of leaving the EU.
This will be spun as the EU punishing us Brits for leaving.
That it applies to other countries too will be ignored.
I thought Muttley got it right (again) earlier. A referendum that covers the various Brexits, plus remain. What is the problem with trying to at least do the thing properly?
Nothing at all. If only someone would ask for it.
Interestingly Owen Jones (often the herald of changes in L***** direction changes is today saying they should prepare for a referendum despite this having been dismissed as centralist nonsense very recently.
So May has returned to Brussels and got nothing at all apart from perhaps some sympathy. What the fuck next ?
Tusk and Juncker are on a level of dishonesty to match our very own political lying elite. I would very much doubt this is done yet.
In what way have Tusk and Juncker been acting dishonestly?
Well for a start they’ve said the deal is non negotiable. I believe that it is.
Historically Juncker in particular has openly admitted in the past that himself and his EU cronies lie when addressing European citizens when they dare to ask what’s going on on in the European corridors of secrecy.
1) so how is that being dishonest? They have clear instructions from the other 27 EU leaders, to whom they are accountable, not to renegotiate the deal at this time. You might believe it is negotiable, but have you talked to all 27 EU leaders to find out if it is? Probably not.
2) yes there is that comment he made about how, as part of his job where he is privy to quite a lot of confidential and sensitive data, it is necessary not to be transparent and honest at times to prevent panic or causing market movements. The same applies for any person in the top jobs of politics and business. It is completely unrealistic for anyone in an important role to put total transparency ahead of their fiduciary duty and theirr ability to discharge their responsibilities effectively.
Not to be transparent and honest at times!
Dishonesty and non transparency is part of the EU constitution!
But no. Let’s all stand behind and ring the praises of a man that turned Luxembourg into the European epicentre of corporate tax avoidance during his time as the country’s prime minister.
So May has returned to Brussels and got nothing at all apart from perhaps some sympathy. What the fuck next ?
Tusk and Juncker are on a level of dishonesty to match our very own political lying elite. I would very much doubt this is done yet.
In what way have Tusk and Juncker been acting dishonestly?
Well for a start they’ve said the deal is non negotiable. I believe that it is.
Historically Juncker in particular has openly admitted in the past that himself and his EU cronies lie when addressing European citizens when they dare to ask what’s going on in the European corridors of secrecy.
You're in business, right? So you know that a deal is only negotiable if both sides have an interest in negotiating. Tusk and Juncker negotiate on behalf of the 27 countries. Those countries just don't see any reason to re-open the negotiations. Trust me, I live here, they really don't. If you had access to European media on a regular basis you wouldn't be in any doubt.
They gave May an audience, and I think that in advance of the meet they were genuinely ready to help, but not for the first time they were left confused by what Britain actually wants. Again, that's a familiar story you hear if you live out here. For a start, they believe that even if they gave May something tangible that she likes, there is no guarantee whatsoever that it would get past her own nutters in parliament, so why bother?
I think it was the young Austrian Chancellor, Kurz, who said yesterday that its funny how the Parliament of one country is far more divided and confused than the parliaments of 27 different countries acting in concert.
Bear in mind that is only to travel. Work, study, and other non-tourist visas will generally be down to individual countries unless some agreement is made.
Also bear in mind that it's only that cost every three years.
These things make the headlines but in the grand scheme of things are completely inconsequential to an individual.
Oh really? Well perhaps you can help me with this then. I will get Czech citizenship but probably it won't come through until around early 2020. So lets say in May I come over for a play-off game. (I'm feeling optimistic today). Will I need a frigging neo-visa thing to get back home? Will my Czech residence card be needed, and be enough, to let me get on the plane? Suppose I take the slow way home by train for whatever reason, stopping off maybe to shout at Roland? I need one of these things for that?
Bear in mind that is only to travel. Work, study, and other non-tourist visas will generally be down to individual countries unless some agreement is made.
Also bear in mind that it's only that cost every three years.
These things make the headlines but in the grand scheme of things are completely inconsequential to an individual.
So May has returned to Brussels and got nothing at all apart from perhaps some sympathy. What the fuck next ?
Tusk and Juncker are on a level of dishonesty to match our very own political lying elite. I would very much doubt this is done yet.
In what way have Tusk and Juncker been acting dishonestly?
Well for a start they’ve said the deal is non negotiable. I believe that it is.
Historically Juncker in particular has openly admitted in the past that himself and his EU cronies lie when addressing European citizens when they dare to ask what’s going on on in the European corridors of secrecy.
1) so how is that being dishonest? They have clear instructions from the other 27 EU leaders, to whom they are accountable, not to renegotiate the deal at this time. You might believe it is negotiable, but have you talked to all 27 EU leaders to find out if it is? Probably not.
2) yes there is that comment he made about how, as part of his job where he is privy to quite a lot of confidential and sensitive data, it is necessary not to be transparent and honest at times to prevent panic or causing market movements. The same applies for any person in the top jobs of politics and business. It is completely unrealistic for anyone in an important role to put total transparency ahead of their fiduciary duty and theirr ability to discharge their responsibilities effectively.
Not to be transparent and honest at times!
Dishonesty and non transparency is part of the EU constitution!
But no. Let’s all stand behind and ring the praises of a man that turned Luxembourg into the European epicentre of corporate tax avoidance during his time as the country’s prime minister.
Are UK politicians transparent and honest at all times? No.
Are our securitiy services and armed forces? No.
Are the CEOs and ExCos of Britain's businesses? No.
There is nothing nefarious about this. The armed forces don't disclose their operations to the general public for obvious reasons. The security services don't put a database of their undercover agents with their names and addresses on the internet for the public to see. CEOs do not (and cannot by law) talk about sensitive business information or other confidential information before it is legally and properly disseminated.
So why are the EU heads scrutinised for disclosing what ought to be an obvious truth - that they are privy to confidential and sensitive information or they are told things in confidence by the leaders of the EU countries and therefore to protect the integrity of the system they cannot be 100% transparent. The only country that seemed to have a problem with Juncker casually stating this pretty basic fact was the UK, specifically the parts of the UK who scour their copies of the Daily Mail and Torygraph for any anti-EU propaganda they can work themselves into an onanistic froth over.
Bear in mind that is only to travel. Work, study, and other non-tourist visas will generally be down to individual countries unless some agreement is made.
Also bear in mind that it's only that cost every three years.
These things make the headlines but in the grand scheme of things are completely inconsequential to an individual.
Oh really? Well perhaps you can help me with this then. I will get Czech citizenship but probably it won't come through until around early 2020. So lets say in May I come over for a play-off game. (I'm feeling optimistic today). Will I need a frigging neo-visa thing to get back home? Will my Czech residence card be needed, and be enough, to let me get on the plane? Suppose I take the slow way home by train for whatever reason, stopping off maybe to shout at Roland? I need one of these things for that?
Well, they can fuck right off.
I don't know.
But if spending 10 minutes to fill out a form is having that much of an impact on your life then I think you're probably doing OK.
I'm a remainer, and yes, little things like this are an annoyance but I feel there are bigger societal, political and trade issues to focus on, rather than something that many of us do already for the likes of Turkey and the States.
Plus £4 a day phone data probably. Oh, and we'll have to buy insurance as E111 cards won't be valid.
You should still be getting travel insurance for Europe as there are limits as to what the EHIC covers and the phone charges only changed in July last year didn't they?
There are going to be real material changes to our lives when (if) we leave - I don't understand why people place so much emphasis on these types of things. Is it really going to stop you travelling to Europe? Do you ever travel outside of Europe?
So May has returned to Brussels and got nothing at all apart from perhaps some sympathy. What the fuck next ?
Tusk and Juncker are on a level of dishonesty to match our very own political lying elite. I would very much doubt this is done yet.
In what way have Tusk and Juncker been acting dishonestly?
Well for a start they’ve said the deal is non negotiable. I believe that it is.
Historically Juncker in particular has openly admitted in the past that himself and his EU cronies lie when addressing European citizens when they dare to ask what’s going on in the European corridors of secrecy.
you can believe father christmas and the easter bunny is real, but this is reality.
"Juncker has said that unicorns do not exist but I believe they do. He is totally dishonest and corrupt! Dishonesty and corruption are built into the EU constitution! I want my unicorn!"
If those figures are accurate it would suit me personally. What is also clear from those numbers is that there is clear evidence that much of the leave vote has recognised that they were lied to.
It might be more precise to state that the Brexit promises and fiction have met the EU27 reality. Other factors such as the demographics along with constant negative media coverage of Brexit replacing 24/7 negative stories around immigration have all combined to deliver a consistent swing in favour of remain which has become obvious since mid November when the WA was revealed.
As posted above, what are the 25 Tory remainers going to do about the shifting polls and May allowing the clock to run down? Ultimately it's their call as to whether they reach out to Labour and the SNP to change the outcome. They alone can force a second referendum and/or revocation of article 50 in light of the fact that this is clearly the will of the people going into 2019.
If those figures are accurate it would suit me personally. What is also clear from those numbers is that there is clear evidence that much of the leave vote has recognised that they were lied to.
It might be more precise to state that the Brexit promises and fiction have met the EU27 reality. Other factors such as the demographics along with constant negative media coverage of Brexit replacing 24/7 negative stories around immigration have all combined to deliver a consistent swing in favour of remain which has become obvious since mid November when the WA was revealed.
As posted above, what are the 25 Tory remainers going to do about the shifting polls and May allowing the clock to run down? Ultimately it's their call as to whether they reach out to Labour and the SNP to change the outcome. They alone can force a second referendum and/or revocation of article 50 in light of the fact that this is clearly the will of the people going into 2019.
25 Tory remainers joining an allegiance with Labour is never going to happen imo.
Plus £4 a day phone data probably. Oh, and we'll have to buy insurance as E111 cards won't be valid.
You should still be getting travel insurance for Europe as there are limits as to what the EHIC covers and the phone charges only changed in July last year didn't they?
There are going to be real material changes to our lives when (if) we leave - I don't understand why people place so much emphasis on these types of things. Is it really going to stop you travelling to Europe? Do you ever travel outside of Europe?
So you’re content with regression?
Yes thanks, this year I’ve been to Toronto, New York and Los Angeles. It cost me £4 a day for data.
No one is placing emphasis on it over trade and customs, residence visas, living costs etc. It’s a talking point here today because it is one of today’s main news stories. Maybe email some news outlets and ask them why they’re placing ‘so much emphasis’ on it?
If those figures are accurate it would suit me personally. What is also clear from those numbers is that there is clear evidence that much of the leave vote has recognised that they were lied to.
This is what I said on here months ago. We should have another vote and the question should be as above. It was obvious to me and still is that the Brexit options would roughly divide their vote in two, leaving the Remain vote to win comfortably.
They would be obliged simples. A complete change in government and political landscape in UK would require it. And has just been ruled Article 50 can be suspended/reversed easily.
Plus £4 a day phone data probably. Oh, and we'll have to buy insurance as E111 cards won't be valid.
You should still be getting travel insurance for Europe as there are limits as to what the EHIC covers and the phone charges only changed in July last year didn't they?
There are going to be real material changes to our lives when (if) we leave - I don't understand why people place so much emphasis on these types of things. Is it really going to stop you travelling to Europe? Do you ever travel outside of Europe?
because it is easier to understand how a 7 euro fee impacts on you than a 2% drop in GDP and a WTO tariff.
The last two will most likely be much bigger impacts but aren't as tangible.
In the same way the Leave campaign was much better in that it focused on tangibles (£350m a week to the NHS, 50m turks - lies but tangible lies). A lot of remain was macro economics, long term projections, etc. More important but not as well understood in terms of impact.
Plus £4 a day phone data probably. Oh, and we'll have to buy insurance as E111 cards won't be valid.
You should still be getting travel insurance for Europe as there are limits as to what the EHIC covers and the phone charges only changed in July last year didn't they?
There are going to be real material changes to our lives when (if) we leave - I don't understand why people place so much emphasis on these types of things. Is it really going to stop you travelling to Europe? Do you ever travel outside of Europe?
because it is easier to understand how a 7 euro fee impacts on you than a 2% drop in GDP and a WTO tariff.
The last two will most likely be much bigger impacts but aren't as tangible.
In the same way the Leave campaign was much better in that it focused on tangibles (£350m a week to the NHS, 50m turks - lies but tangible lies). A lot of remain was macro economics, long term projections, etc. More important but not as well understood in terms of impact.
Yep - it's as if it was a too big and complicated of a decision to give to the public isn't it?
They would be obliged simples. A complete change in government and political landscape in UK would require it. And has just been ruled Article 50 can be suspended/reversed easily.
That wasn't what was ruled though.
The EU would not in anyway be obliged to pause A50.
Comments
That it applies to other countries too will be ignored.
But we'll have blue passports so all is well.
Interestingly Owen Jones (often the herald of changes in L***** direction changes is today saying they should prepare for a referendum despite this having been dismissed as centralist nonsense very recently.
She is safe from her own backbenchers and appears unwilling to fall on her sword as the ERG want her to.
But the EU are giving her anything to take about the HOC (why should they, even if they could).
The WA has to be voted on sometime and it looks certain to lose now.
How close to wire will she go?
Dishonesty and non transparency is part of the EU constitution!
But no. Let’s all stand behind and ring the praises of a man that turned Luxembourg into the European epicentre of corporate tax avoidance during his time as the country’s prime minister.
They gave May an audience, and I think that in advance of the meet they were genuinely ready to help, but not for the first time they were left confused by what Britain actually wants. Again, that's a familiar story you hear if you live out here. For a start, they believe that even if they gave May something tangible that she likes, there is no guarantee whatsoever that it would get past her own nutters in parliament, so why bother?
I think it was the young Austrian Chancellor, Kurz, who said yesterday that its funny how the Parliament of one country is far more divided and confused than the parliaments of 27 different countries acting in concert.
Well, they can fuck right off.
Are our securitiy services and armed forces? No.
Are the CEOs and ExCos of Britain's businesses? No.
There is nothing nefarious about this. The armed forces don't disclose their operations to the general public for obvious reasons. The security services don't put a database of their undercover agents with their names and addresses on the internet for the public to see. CEOs do not (and cannot by law) talk about sensitive business information or other confidential information before it is legally and properly disseminated.
So why are the EU heads scrutinised for disclosing what ought to be an obvious truth - that they are privy to confidential and sensitive information or they are told things in confidence by the leaders of the EU countries and therefore to protect the integrity of the system they cannot be 100% transparent. The only country that seemed to have a problem with Juncker casually stating this pretty basic fact was the UK, specifically the parts of the UK who scour their copies of the Daily Mail and Torygraph for any anti-EU propaganda they can work themselves into an onanistic froth over.
But if spending 10 minutes to fill out a form is having that much of an impact on your life then I think you're probably doing OK.
I'm a remainer, and yes, little things like this are an annoyance but I feel there are bigger societal, political and trade issues to focus on, rather than something that many of us do already for the likes of Turkey and the States.
There are going to be real material changes to our lives when (if) we leave - I don't understand why people place so much emphasis on these types of things. Is it really going to stop you travelling to Europe? Do you ever travel outside of Europe?
As posted above, what are the 25 Tory remainers going to do about the shifting polls and May allowing the clock to run down? Ultimately it's their call as to whether they reach out to Labour and the SNP to change the outcome. They alone can force a second referendum and/or revocation of article 50 in light of the fact that this is clearly the will of the people going into 2019.
Yes thanks, this year I’ve been to Toronto, New York and Los Angeles. It cost me £4 a day for data.
No one is placing emphasis on it over trade and customs, residence visas, living costs etc. It’s a talking point here today because it is one of today’s main news stories. Maybe email some news outlets and ask them why they’re placing ‘so much emphasis’ on it?
It was obvious to me and still is that the Brexit options would roughly divide their vote in two, leaving the Remain vote to win comfortably.
Also, if what the EU are saying is true that May's WA is the best deal possible, what would a new government hope to achieve?
Things seem so much more relatable when they translate into actual practicalities.
The last two will most likely be much bigger impacts but aren't as tangible.
In the same way the Leave campaign was much better in that it focused on tangibles (£350m a week to the NHS, 50m turks - lies but tangible lies). A lot of remain was macro economics, long term projections, etc. More important but not as well understood in terms of impact.
In other news, Scottish Tories are getting ready to split: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/12/scottish-tories-are-preparing-back-second-brexit-referendum
The EU would not in anyway be obliged to pause A50.