Also how come brexiters are allowed to use the line, often in a throwaway manner that the EU is ',undemocratic' and this is never challenged. The EU is democratic, arguably more democratic than the UK, but the money debate often swamps the sovereignty and democracy debate. To re balance things a little, the EU is democratic. Not that it matters as brexit won and the UK reverts to it's rather shabby democracy and forever rule by the patrician class. The joke remains that brexiters knew what they were voting for yet they don't know after all, and they expect other poor sods to second guess their intentions, and they go into a hissy fit when they are correctly called out as morons. Not long to go now before forced repatriation, which seemed an absurd concept before the Windrush scandal.
My take is that nothing much will happen and that we are course to leave next March with a transition agreement until the end of 2020. Or 32 months from now. However, the remoaners who wish to reverse the referendum are rapidly running out of time. And this constituency makes up around a third of the electorate. One cannot speak for them but where will they be this time next year after we have left? If they become perfectly aligned with those who support "Brexit in name only" aka Norway plus the Customs Union then that becomes a sizeable majority. Amongst the electorate and MPs. Whether the Italians form a government soon or the Eurozone proposes reforms, the fact is that we are leaving and will not participate in the MEP elections in May 2019. At that point it will hit home that we have given up some democratic representation, and for what?
A series of half baked promises and tautologies around "sovereignty"? Only a united opposition to this crazy government will succeed so perhaps the actual Brexit will act as a catalyst to bring people together to stop the nonsense around the Irish border as well as breaking up the relationship with our biggest trading partner aka the EU.
It's bonkers and the people I work with simply ask what to make of it. Well, we havent left the SM and CU and there's no reason that we should. Hopefully leaving the EU will bring focus to that question but who bloody knows?!
I don't know whether the news about the UK Border Force recruitment for Northern Ireland has made any waves outside Northern Ireland, but it is interesting that, according to the job description, these jobs are reserved posts "due to the sensitive nature of the work, require special allegiance to the Crown", so no Irish need apply. It's difficult to see why it would be that the work of those in the Border Force would be more sensitive than, for example, the Police, so this decision, in the light of the explicit provisions about citizenship contained within the Good Friday Agreement.
The UK Border Force recruitment provisions may well, in many ways, be something being made out of nothing, but (along with the wider Brexit issue) it helps contribute to a greater polarisation in Northern Ireland political views. The middle ground (and the idea of being Northern Irish for those willing to avoid the Nationalist/Unionist divide) is being eroded - and support for a United Ireland is becoming stronger within small "n" nationalism (from my own experience, I'd even suggest something similar is happening with a percentage of small "u" unionists who do not believe that the DUP represents them).
Map showing the biggest trading partner of each country.
So Germany's biggest trading partner is China. How annoying that being in the EU prevents countries from trading outside the bloc, and that Germany will be the big losers if import tariffs are imposed and BMWs suddenly become so expensive no-one in Britain buys them anymore.
(This sarcasm is brought to you by wakeupandsmellthecoffeeyoudreamers, a subsidiary of takeyourheadoutofthesand PLC)
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
Normally I would agree. But on this issue they are just doing their patriotic duty and trying to save the country from being completely fucked up by the 37% minority of Brexit idiots and morons.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
Let's not pretend that Bexit is an exercise in democracy. There are various versions of Brexit including the one the government is pursuing. We weren't given the options at the vote and if May has her way, neither will our MP be able to vote on the deal she negotiated. So we weren't presented with a democratic choice. And the EU laws we jettison will be her choice, not voted on by our elected representatives. HoL needs abolishing but we need a 2nd tier to question HoC legislation.
I don't know whether the news about the UK Border Force recruitment for Northern Ireland has made any waves outside Northern Ireland, but it is interesting that, according to the job description, these jobs are reserved posts "due to the sensitive nature of the work, require special allegiance to the Crown", so no Irish need apply. It's difficult to see why it would be that the work of those in the Border Force would be more sensitive than, for example, the Police, so this decision, in the light of the explicit provisions about citizenship contained within the Good Friday Agreement.
The UK Border Force recruitment provisions may well, in many ways, be something being made out of nothing, but (along with the wider Brexit issue) it helps contribute to a greater polarisation in Northern Ireland political views. The middle ground (and the idea of being Northern Irish for those willing to avoid the Nationalist/Unionist divide) is being eroded - and support for a United Ireland is becoming stronger within small "n" nationalism (from my own experience, I'd even suggest something similar is happening with a percentage of small "u" unionists who do not believe that the DUP represents them).
@NornIrishAddick you are obviously far closer than any of us to the reality of life in Northern Ireland. So thanks for all the links and drawing attention to the likes of Fintan O'Toole. Even if one doesn't agree with him, his analysis is thorough and his presentation articulate.
And the direction of travel should English nationalism remain unchecked does not look pretty. We all know May was in charge of the Home Office when the hostile environment policy was introduced and we also observed that it took her a matter of minutes to jump into bed with the DUP.
Every action can provoke an equal and opposite reaction. When the next set of polls come out on reunification as well as the single market we might see a shift in views? And the local elections may also send a message across the UK.
For the first time in our lifetimes we should contemplate the end of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many might support that outcome but I fear the process will not be carried out without bloodshed!
On a different note Martin Wolf has come out in the FT calling on people to abandon any fight against the referendum result and to stay in the EU. Instead he directs people to the debate after we leave - a view I wholeheartedly endorse. "Harry" has probably forgotten more things about the political economy of the UK and EU than many of us will ever know!
That he now looks forward to the fight to stay in the CU and SM should give us strength for he will not be alone. Brexit nutters might bleat about the "liberal establisment" running the gaffe, but somebody has to. And people who consider the views of Mr Wolf are more likely to do a decent job than those sponsored by the Mail and Telegraph.
@NornIrishAddick you are obviously far closer than any of us to the reality of life in Northern Ireland. So thanks for all the links and drawing attention to the likes of Fintan O'Toole. Even if one doesn't agree with him, his analysis is thorough and his presentation articulate.
And the direction of travel should English nationalism remain unchecked does not look pretty. We all know May was in charge of the Home Office when the hostile environment policy was introduced and we also observed that it took her a matter of minutes to jump into bed with the DUP.
Every action can provoke an equal and opposite reaction. When the next set of polls come out on reunification as well as the single market we might see a shift in views? And the local elections may also send a message across the UK.
For the first time in our lifetimes we should contemplate the end of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many might support that outcome but I fear the process will not be carried out without bloodshed!
On a different note Martin Wolf has come out in the FT calling on people to abandon any fight against the referendum result and to stay in the EU. Instead he directs people to the debate after we leave - a view I wholeheartedly endorse. "Harry" has probably forgotten more things about the political economy of the UK and EU than many of us will ever know!
That he now looks forward to the fight to stay in the CU and SM should give us strength for he will not be alone. Brexit nutters might bleat about the "liberal establisment" running the gaffe, but somebody has to. And people who consider the views of Mr Wolf are more likely to do a decent job than those sponsored by the Mail and Telegraph.
The most absurd outcome for Brexit would be to stay in the CU and single market while having no any input into the creation of rules and regulations, while at the same time still paying to keep the EU going. Out is out.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Here you go again with your rhetoric about democracy and how Brexiteers are championing its cause over and above Remainers who are akin to collaborators.
Yet, no one voted to leave the single market, no one voted to leave the customs union and no one voted to hand unilateral and executive control over on vast areas of our laws, that are designed to protect our environment and ourselves as consumers, employees and citizens. No one.
I'd be more prepared to consider your point of views about democracy if you weren't so hypocritical about the situation and happy to let ministers, of the calibre responsible for the recent Windrush situation btw, have unchecked control of our future legislative environment.
The most absurd outcome for Brexit would be to stay in the CU and single market while having no any input into the creation of rules and regulations, while at the same time still paying to keep the EU going. Out is out.
So why did your leaders lie over and over again about that during the campaign?
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
You prefer a "democracy" where a party can take 12.6% of the vote and have one seat, whereas another party can take 4.7% of the vote and have fifty six seats.
One where ultimately about 22 people make decisions about laws that are drawn up by unelected bureaucrats.
The most absurd outcome for Brexit would be to stay in the CU and single market while having no any input into the creation of rules and regulations, while at the same time still paying to keep the EU going. Out is out.
So why did your leaders lie over and over again about that during the campaign?
You’ll never get a true answer to this. Apparently every brexiter voted out, meaning out. There was never any discussion of the type on the video above, as you can see.
Visionary champions of democracy and sovereignty all of them.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
Well said, I am on 12 hour days today and the constant whining is certainly brightening up my day....
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
Well said, I am on 12 hour days today and the constant whining is certainly brightening up my day....
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
You make my point for me. The UK government is a form of democracy, but in my view worse than the EU from of democracy. I exclude myself from the whingefest because I accept brexit (whatever that is supposed to mean) won. The problem is that brexiters can't seem to accept they won, they are fixated with finger jabbing the losers and not solving the problems, like the Irish Border.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
You make my point for me. The UK government is a form of democracy, but in my view worse than the EU from of democracy. I exclude myself from the whingefest because I accept brexit (whatever that is supposed to mean) won. The problem is that brexiters can't seem to accept they won, they are fixated with finger jabbing the losers and not solving the problems, like the Irish Border.
And Remainers can't accept they lost, hence why we have threads this long and constant campaigns in the press on how to overturn the result or stay in certain parts of the EU.
People on both sides are full of shit, ultimately.
An in-out referendum was always going to be a controversial event, no matter the result. Without options on the ballot paper, both sides can talk about why people voted the way they did, and make it fit their own agenda. It's a complete mess and the negotiations since have been no better. The sooner the chapter is closed the better for everyone, because now, the divisions in the country are some of the worst I can remember.
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
And of course, had they gone the other way, you would be saying the same.
I have always been for the abolition of tbe Lords. Their behaviour around Brexit just proves once again it needs to go. Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
The EU is not unelected.
The EU is even less democratic than the House of Lords. The Lords at least do not create policy nor put it into law, unlike the unelected EU Commission. The EU commissioners are appointed by national governments but are legally obliged not to represent them but swear an oath to the EU, which is a supranational body. We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Who elects the UK government that provides a UK commissioner? Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process. You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you. It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one. Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
But the UK government is a minority government, voted on by a minority of those eligible to vote. Ipso facto anything they do undemocratic.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
You make my point for me. The UK government is a form of democracy, but in my view worse than the EU from of democracy. I exclude myself from the whingefest because I accept brexit (whatever that is supposed to mean) won. The problem is that brexiters can't seem to accept they won, they are fixated with finger jabbing the losers and not solving the problems, like the Irish Border.
And Remainers can't accept they lost, hence why we have threads this long and constant campaigns in the press on how to overturn the result or stay in certain parts of the EU.
People on both sides are full of shit, ultimately.
An in-out referendum was always going to be a controversial event, no matter the result. Without options on the ballot paper, both sides can talk about why people voted the way they did, and make it fit their own agenda. It's a complete mess and the negotiations since have been no better. The sooner the chapter is closed the better for everyone, because now, the divisions in the country are some of the worst I can remember.
Comments
The EU is democratic, arguably more democratic than the UK, but the money debate often swamps the sovereignty and democracy debate.
To re balance things a little, the EU is democratic. Not that it matters as brexit won and the UK reverts to it's rather shabby democracy and forever rule by the patrician class.
The joke remains that brexiters knew what they were voting for yet they don't know after all, and they expect other poor sods to second guess their intentions, and they go into a hissy fit when they are correctly called out as morons.
Not long to go now before forced repatriation, which seemed an absurd concept before the Windrush scandal.
Compared to the political landscape up here, the Dublin Government appears to be populated by political giants.
Coveney always comes across as a thoughtful and serious politician.
However, the remoaners who wish to reverse the referendum are rapidly running out of time. And this constituency makes up around a third of the electorate.
One cannot speak for them but where will they be this time next year after we have left? If they become perfectly aligned with those who support "Brexit in name only" aka Norway plus the Customs Union then that becomes a sizeable majority. Amongst the electorate and MPs.
Whether the Italians form a government soon or the Eurozone proposes reforms, the fact is that we are leaving and will not participate in the MEP elections in May 2019. At that point it will hit home that we have given up some democratic representation, and for what?
A series of half baked promises and tautologies around "sovereignty"? Only a united opposition to this crazy government will succeed so perhaps the actual Brexit will act as a catalyst to bring people together to stop the nonsense around the Irish border as well as breaking up the relationship with our biggest trading partner aka the EU.
It's bonkers and the people I work with simply ask what to make of it. Well, we havent left the SM and CU and there's no reason that we should. Hopefully leaving the EU will bring focus to that question but who bloody knows?!
And, for those, like me, who believe that the way that Brexit pans out could have an impact on things like the Common Travel Area (for all of the kind words to date - because there are also lots of kind words about the Good Friday Agreement): https://irishtimes.com/opinion/noel-whelan-windrush-treatment-could-yet-be-felt-by-irish-in-britain-1.3467212.
I don't know whether the news about the UK Border Force recruitment for Northern Ireland has made any waves outside Northern Ireland, but it is interesting that, according to the job description, these jobs are reserved posts "due to the sensitive nature of the work, require special allegiance to the Crown", so no Irish need apply. It's difficult to see why it would be that the work of those in the Border Force would be more sensitive than, for example, the Police, so this decision, in the light of the explicit provisions about citizenship contained within the Good Friday Agreement.
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/only-british-passport-holders-can-apply-for-brexit-border-force-jobs-in-belfast-36810389.html
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/belfast-border-force-jobs-reported-to-watchdog-for-chilling-ban-on-irish-passport-holders-36823410.html
https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/04/18/the-border-force-row-exposes-differences-between-british-and-irish-citizenship-that-have-to-be-settled/
https://irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/04/20/news/uk-border-force-reviewing-british-only-policy-on-jobs-in-northern-ireland-1309192/
The UK Border Force recruitment provisions may well, in many ways, be something being made out of nothing, but (along with the wider Brexit issue) it helps contribute to a greater polarisation in Northern Ireland political views. The middle ground (and the idea of being Northern Irish for those willing to avoid the Nationalist/Unionist divide) is being eroded - and support for a United Ireland is becoming stronger within small "n" nationalism (from my own experience, I'd even suggest something similar is happening with a percentage of small "u" unionists who do not believe that the DUP represents them).
(This sarcasm is brought to you by wakeupandsmellthecoffeeyoudreamers, a subsidiary of takeyourheadoutofthesand PLC)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209433
Petition for a referendum to abolish the House of Lords. This unelected body is trying to support the unelected EU to overturn Brexit. Time this bastion of undemocratic privilege in this country was consigned to history.
Interesting that Remainers now supporting the unelected Lords as they do the unelected EU-at least they are consistent I guess.
Jobs for the boys?
And the direction of travel should English nationalism remain unchecked does not look pretty. We all know May was in charge of the Home Office when the hostile environment policy was introduced and we also observed that it took her a matter of minutes to jump into bed with the DUP.
Every action can provoke an equal and opposite reaction. When the next set of polls come out on reunification as well as the single market we might see a shift in views? And the local elections may also send a message across the UK.
For the first time in our lifetimes we should contemplate the end of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many might support that outcome but I fear the process will not be carried out without bloodshed!
On a different note Martin Wolf has come out in the FT calling on people to abandon any fight against the referendum result and to stay in the EU. Instead he directs people to the debate after we leave - a view I wholeheartedly endorse. "Harry" has probably forgotten more things about the political economy of the UK and EU than many of us will ever know!
That he now looks forward to the fight to stay in the CU and SM should give us strength for he will not be alone. Brexit nutters might bleat about the "liberal establisment" running the gaffe, but somebody has to. And people who consider the views of Mr Wolf are more likely to do a decent job than those sponsored by the Mail and Telegraph.
Out is out.
We have no control over what the commissioners appointed by our government do. Our government has no say over the creation of EU law. The EU makes the Lords look mildly democratic by comparison.
Sorry but the chain you describe that leads to your conclusion that those running the EU are unelected, is a chain that describes a democratic process.
You may not want to believe it but the EU governance is democratically elected even if it seems rather remote to you.
It doesn't matter any more anyway because brexit won, and the UK reverts to a democratic system that is worse than the EU one.
Any solution to the Irish border that squares with both the Belfast Agreement and taking back control in sight?
Yet, no one voted to leave the single market, no one voted to leave the customs union and no one voted to hand unilateral and executive control over on vast areas of our laws, that are designed to protect our environment and ourselves as consumers, employees and citizens. No one.
I'd be more prepared to consider your point of views about democracy if you weren't so hypocritical about the situation and happy to let ministers, of the calibre responsible for the recent Windrush situation btw, have unchecked control of our future legislative environment.
One where ultimately about 22 people make decisions about laws that are drawn up by unelected bureaucrats.
Odd kind of democracy that.
Visionary champions of democracy and sovereignty all of them.
That's the argument used by most on here isn't it?
I can't believe this whingefest is still going strong, well for the dedicated few anyway.
The UK government is a form of democracy, but in my view worse than the EU from of democracy.
I exclude myself from the whingefest because I accept brexit (whatever that is supposed to mean) won.
The problem is that brexiters can't seem to accept they won, they are fixated with finger jabbing the losers and not solving the problems, like the Irish Border.
People on both sides are full of shit, ultimately.
An in-out referendum was always going to be a controversial event, no matter the result. Without options on the ballot paper, both sides can talk about why people voted the way they did, and make it fit their own agenda. It's a complete mess and the negotiations since have been no better. The sooner the chapter is closed the better for everyone, because now, the divisions in the country are some of the worst I can remember.