I wonder if the EFL might have a view about the club sending it fit and proper person paperwork to process without the intention to proceed?
Have you heard something?
No - I’m commenting on the idea that RD might have misled independent third parties, including the EFL, into activity on the basis the Aussies are buying the club without a firm intention and commitment to sell to them. Or that the Aussies would appear in public, talk to staff, media and others, without such an expectation.
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
so you don't trust RD and he's not being truthful yet you have been using him as your source for months, without revealing so, and in doing so have been posting stuff as if it's fact which you are now saying it hasn't been. I don't think anyone is listening now.
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
so you don't trust RD and he's not being truthful yet you have been using him as your source for months, without revealing so, and in doing so have been posting stuff as if it's fact which you are now saying it hasn't been. I don't think anyone is listening now.
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
I don't think the aussies have been untruthful at any stage, not as far I can see. They may have underestimated how log EFL approval might take, but that's not the same as being untruthful.
The second bidder thing is the great mystery. If there really is one they've done very well to keep it secret. And why would they want to do that. Because the fans might not approve of them as potential owners?
I'm now seriously concerned that, contrary to what I previously said, the Aussies may not have the funds to buy the club.
Received a message wishing me luck for Friday's ProstateCancerUK ride to Amsterdam, but no sponsorship. Not a penny :-(
I am beginning to think there is a lot of brinkmanship going on now. Two parties still interested ,one if not two in for EFL approval, but deal dragging on. Neither of them seem to be in a rush probably because they both have long term plans and the short term pain to Roland with next season planning and summer wages to pay leaves him in a difficult position. I have mentioned this before but I think his actions of playing one off against the other has done nothing but drive price lower and delay takeover. This EFL approval is also strange, put yourself in Roland's position, wouldn't you want that done when proof of funds was done,so as to not waste time and Lawyers fees only to find out your buyer didn't get approval? This is going to drag on for a while longer yet is my guess.
EFL approval is the last piece in the jigsaw though isn't it? You can't apply until everything else is done surely?
Why is it? Why can't you? The whole point is preventing anyone who is subject to a 'Disqualifying Condition' being involved in or influencing the management or administration of a Club.
So wouldn't it make sense to get it done early rather than waste time and money on all the difficult stuff? To drag, kicking and screaming, the house analogy back into action - you wouldn't buy a plot of land and build a house on it until you'd got planning permission.
Again the EFL says the Club shall no later than 10 Normal Working Days (my emphasis) prior to the date on which it is anticipated that such person shall become a Relevant Person submit to The League a duly completed Declaration in respect of that person, at which point that person shall be bound by and subject to the Regulations....
There would appear to be no maximum number of working days before you can apply. Two things of note: first, it appears to be the member, that is the club, that does the application rather than the Relevant Person and, second, there doesn't appear to be a "forms" part of the EFL web site yet you'd think they'd want standardisation of application on this and other matters. (Perhaps it's in a secret "members only" section?)
Edited to add: as I alluded to earlier, teams being relegated from the PL also have to do a declaration to the EFL. So, at this time of year, if there is only one panel, they are likely to be busy.
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
I don't think the aussies have been untruthful at any stage, not as far I can see. They may have underestimated how log EFL approval might take, but that's not the same as being untruthful.
The second bidder thing is the great mystery. If there really is one they've done very well to keep it secret. And why would they want to do that. Because the fans might not approve of them as potential owners?
But then they've basically said nothing on the record. No statements, no press conferences etc
Has there ever been a bid where the buying parties have said so little?
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
I don't think the aussies have been untruthful at any stage, not as far I can see. They may have underestimated how log EFL approval might take, but that's not the same as being untruthful.
The second bidder thing is the great mystery. If there really is one they've done very well to keep it secret. And why would they want to do that. Because the fans might not approve of them as potential owners?
But then they've basically said nothing on the record. No statements, no press conferences etc
Has there ever been a bid where the buying parties have said so little?
Has there ever been a seller like Roland Duchatelet?
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
so you don't trust RD and he's not being truthful yet you have been using him as your source for months, without revealing so, and in doing so have been posting stuff as if it's fact which you are now saying it hasn't been. I don't think anyone is listening now.
I dont trust RD as much as I don’t rust Richard Murray it does strike me as confusing though that a few months ago there was demands of one liar to talk and now another one is talking there is a ground swell not to hear
Right now I think it’s fair to say all parties are not being totally truthful with what is being said and to whom
And @Davidsmith has said about this having a bit longer to play out is going to be bang on the money
so you don't trust RD and he's not being truthful yet you have been using him as your source for months, without revealing so, and in doing so have been posting stuff as if it's fact which you are now saying it hasn't been. I don't think anyone is listening now.
Thing is large what have I posted that’s been incorrect
Look back through everything I put was proven to be true
Imminent I said it wasn’t and was right Done deal I disagreed And was right Fee agreed I said it wasn’t up until you asked 10 days ago Aussie not having the funds and James Seed contact said it was still waiting investors to sign off
Not trusting RD is based on his in ability to run the club properly
Not trusting RM is based on the lies he has told to so many over so long
Now if the people who have been telling me bits and pieces had got any of the above wrong I wouldn’t have been quick to share however right now tell me what bits above have been proved wrong contrary to the popular believe that I was wrong each time I posted it
Can I ask if anyone knows if the EFL fit and proper persons test is supposed to be confidential?
Or does someone have a source there who is telling us that it hasn't been done yet?
Because if it is a confidential process, isn't it possible that it's already been done?
I think if Muir wants to announce the sale on his return we have to bear in mind that the club could be sold any day now, and we might not know, possibly?
Oh, and by the way, if anyone looks at the Not606 forum, I am not 'a 60 year old lifelong Millwall fan who has decided to cash in on his family connections by writing clickbait about the sale of Charlton'.
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
and EFL staff where in London on mass until Tuesday, so chill out, till next week, when I will panic
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
Surely the EFL wouldn't be interested in the convoluted structure - that's an issue for the buyer. It should merely be whether or not the prospective 'person(s) with significant control' are fit and proper.
Tony Jiminez was technically the owner of CAFC when they took over, but it was slater who was doing the photos and the tv interviews on the day they took over, iirc.
Don't think Jiminez actually owned that much of the club either. Didn't the recent court case struggle to show that?
The court ruled that neither Jiminez nor Cash owned the club, although they had obtained a loan by (falsely) saying they controlled it. It also found that Slater did have substantial shareholding, although few people believe that to be the full truth and Jiminez referred to Slater in an an email as being “a method actor” playing a part. In reality it appears they had set out to obscure the ownership through BVI trusts and then couldn’t satisfy the judge that they had ownership when it suited them to do so.
The court ruling effectively meant the club broke league rules by publishing bogus and/or incomplete ownership information in its official declaration, in turn making nonsense of the fit and proper persons test.
The post Curbs era will make a pretty interesting book for anyone with the inside knowledge to write it.
Anybody got any ideas who might be capable ?
Wouldnt be my idea of a little light reading, analysing accountants summisions, balance sheets, financial projections etc
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
Surely the EFL wouldn't be interested in the convoluted structure - that's an issue for the buyer. It should merely be whether or not the prospective 'person(s) with significant control' are fit and proper.
Yes - I think that's probably right.
However, having been to some extent 'caught out' about who exactly had 'significant control' of CAFC when it was owned by the spivs plus that it is now being bought by a consortium the EFL may be looking at that more closely.
But my main point was the limited time so far it's been with them.
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
Surely the EFL wouldn't be interested in the convoluted structure - that's an issue for the buyer. It should merely be whether or not the prospective 'person(s) with significant control' are fit and proper.
Especially, as far as we know, the ownership is no longer convoluted.
@micks1950 makes an excellent point. Six working days only.
Meanwhile Muir has gone to Oz for two weeks so pencil in week commencing 11 June for his return and the official news on the official site. I hope the story is written by @Ollywozere
If the Sunderland sale is anything to go by It looks like the EFL like to speak to the new owners so lets hope the Aussies did this before they flew back home. If not and he is not coming back for two weeks expect no news until the middle of June.
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
The link below is to the tweets from Richard Cawley on May 21st that Sunderland's sale had just been approved by the EFL and Muir's consortium was next in line. He also confirmed that there is "Only one panel that sits on 'fit and proper' test":
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
Surely the EFL wouldn't be interested in the convoluted structure - that's an issue for the buyer. It should merely be whether or not the prospective 'person(s) with significant control' are fit and proper.
I should certainly hope they would be seriously interested in a convoluted structure. The spiv's legal ownership of CAFC remained shrouded in BVI corporate secrecy. The septuagenarian shit4brains didn't check much out - how can he be sure what or who he actually bought? So how the hell does he really know what he's got good title to sell? For all we know he bought a couple of magic beans and has been spunking millions on the ever worsening loss making business ever since. Now some competent, prudent business types show up and start asking some straight forward questions which the mad old bastard is struggling to answer without revealing what an absolute fucktard he really is.
If the Sunderland sale is anything to go by It looks like the EFL like to speak to the new owners so lets hope the Aussies did this before they flew back home. If not and he is not coming back for two weeks expect no news until the middle of June.
Australia obviously remains a cultural backwater but even there they do have telephones and even the interwebamujig, communicating with Mr Muir and/or his cohort didn't ought to seriously challenge even such a bunch of dullards as the Football League.
I don’t believe the league have had the paperwork quite as long as some assume. On that basis I’m expecting a further hiatus, but I wouldn’t ready anything into it.
If the Sunderland sale is anything to go by It looks like the EFL like to speak to the new owners so lets hope the Aussies did this before they flew back home. If not and he is not coming back for two weeks expect no news until the middle of June.
Australia obviously remains a cultural backwater but even there they do have telephones and even the interwebamujig, communicating with Mr Muir and/or his cohort didn't ought to seriously challenge even such a bunch of dullards as the Football League.
I think you will find it will be a face to face meeting, not over a telephone or Skype.
Comments
;-)
Conjecture: an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information
Gossip: casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details which are not confirmed as true
Patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious
The second bidder thing is the great mystery. If there really is one they've done very well to keep it secret. And why would they want to do that. Because the fans might not approve of them as potential owners?
So wouldn't it make sense to get it done early rather than waste time and money on all the difficult stuff? To drag, kicking and screaming, the house analogy back into action - you wouldn't buy a plot of land and build a house on it until you'd got planning permission.
Again the EFL says the Club shall no later than 10 Normal Working Days (my emphasis) prior to the date on which it is anticipated that such person shall become a Relevant Person submit to The League a duly completed Declaration in respect of that person, at which point that person shall be bound by and subject to the Regulations....
There would appear to be no maximum number of working days before you can apply. Two things of note: first, it appears to be the member, that is the club, that does the application rather than the Relevant Person and, second, there doesn't appear to be a "forms" part of the EFL web site yet you'd think they'd want standardisation of application on this and other matters. (Perhaps it's in a secret "members only" section?)
Edited to add: as I alluded to earlier, teams being relegated from the PL also have to do a declaration to the EFL. So, at this time of year, if there is only one panel, they are likely to be busy.
Has there ever been a bid where the buying parties have said so little?
Look back through everything I put was proven to be true
Imminent I said it wasn’t and was right
Done deal I disagreed And was right
Fee agreed I said it wasn’t up until you asked 10 days ago
Aussie not having the funds and James Seed contact said it was still waiting investors to sign off
Not trusting RD is based on his in ability to run the club properly
Not trusting RM is based on the lies he has told to so many over so long
Now if the people who have been telling me bits and pieces had got any of the above wrong I wouldn’t have been quick to share however right now tell me what bits above have been proved wrong contrary to the popular believe that I was wrong each time I posted it
Or does someone have a source there who is telling us that it hasn't been done yet?
Because if it is a confidential process, isn't it possible that it's already been done?
I think if Muir wants to announce the sale on his return we have to bear in mind that the club could be sold any day now, and we might not know, possibly?
Oh, and by the way, if anyone looks at the Not606 forum, I am not 'a 60 year old lifelong Millwall fan who has decided to cash in on his family connections by writing clickbait about the sale of Charlton'.
I'm 61.
That was only 6 working days ago (plus as we know, due to the 'spivs' opaque ownership structure and Duchatelet's failure to do 'due diligence', consideration of Charlton's takeover might be more complicated).
So shouldn't we all relax a bit?
WIOTOS
However, having been to some extent 'caught out' about who exactly had 'significant control' of CAFC when it was owned by the spivs plus that it is now being bought by a consortium the EFL may be looking at that more closely.
But my main point was the limited time so far it's been with them.
@micks1950 makes an excellent point. Six working days only.
Meanwhile Muir has gone to Oz for two weeks so pencil in week commencing 11 June for his return and the official news on the official site. I hope the story is written by @Ollywozere
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44153345
http://www.eflvehicles.co.uk/
It would explain the delay and why there are a number of bemused office staff at a vehicle leasing company in Burnley.
What did RD use to by us, the Newshopper classified ads?