Only 76 new posts so far today, which tells me we haven't been sold yet.
If the takeover had been completed, there'd be 2.5k new posts, CL would be in total meltdown and you wouldn't even be able to log on here. And Doucher would be a hero.
Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
I don't think either Murray or Airman have lied. A lot of what both of them have said would have what they believed. Problem is Murray has been receiving his info from a compulsive liar, and it's in Airmans interests to print everthing, even when there is an element of doubt involved.
I think people should try to concentrate on the team at the moment, this takeover has plenty of twists and turns left so I don't see the point in being impatient.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
Exactly, worked like a charm, apparently protests had been planned for Charlton and Belgium, now nothing until next season
RM has played a blinder for his boss and keeps his seat at the top table, which is, imo, all he has ever wanted.
Im really worried the old turd RD will still be in charge next season.
Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.
I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.
Yeah no way has Murray delivered a series of false statements just to stop protests.
I also believe Murray will want to be around under the new ownership. so pissing off fans just before that happens wouldn't be the smartest move.
He has lost a lot of respect for sticking up for KM/RD, and IMO, should have distanced himself from them rather than continue to be the mouthpiece because it's only creating problems for him.
Protests at the valley have been effective, but less so recently. A combination of a lack of numbers for a big protest, a lack of people to really protest against and a lack of ideas have produced a bit of a vacuum.
Protests at the Valley have always been more about the media cover having an effect on RD rather than a direct effect.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.
I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.
OK I'll put it another way. Murray has made statements which he hoped might be true. Slightly different from knowing they weren't true.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
I would think he would be aiming for a proportion of the profit made from the sale of any RD-era purchase, as well as a proportion of the sale of any youth player that has made his debut during RD's tenure as owner.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.
Couldn't agree more, there is no reason why you'd pay Roland anything for future promotions that aren't because of anything Roland has done (I think we'd all agree it would be despite of what he's done), but I don't think that will stop him from trying to demand it somehow.
I imagine that's why this is dragging out, it'll be not only arguments over what monies Roland has any right to claim, but home much and in what timescales.
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.
which is why we ll know nothing more until the play offs finish or we dont make the play offs whichever is the sooner
Football clubs must be the only type of business where the future success is factored into the value in that way - imagine if somebody had bought toys r us and then had to pay x amount extra a couple of years later if the new company made a profit - it'd be "err no - you ran the company into the ground... if we then make it successful by investing, putting the right people in place and the correct strategy to make the business work and it does, it don't entitle you to a share in the profit- jog on"
All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I know
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:
£20 million now £5 million on promotion to champ* £10 million on promotion to premier league* Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale **e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
I might stretch to allowing him some form of sell on for Gomez, JBG (shame they apparently neglected to think highly enough of Pope to include one). Those are deals done during his tenure.
However, anything post-RD is going to be achieved with the backing of new owners and will be in spite of him and his regime, not because of him. You might stretch yourself a little further and maybe allow a small increment for promotion to the Championship within 2 years, but nothing more.
Football clubs must be the only type of business where the future success is factored into the value in that way - imagine if somebody had bought toys r us and then had to pay x amount extra a couple of years later if the new company made a profit - it'd be "err no - you ran the company into the ground... if we then make it successful by investing, putting the right people in place and the correct strategy to make the business work and it does, it don't entitle you to a share in the profit- jog on"
No they are not, I own a refrigeration company who got maintenance contracts some lasting for 5 years, if I sold then the value / expected profit of these future maintenance would certainly be incorporated into the sales price. So yes future success is priced in many businesses sales, it’s can also be known as good will.
Comments
Only 76 new posts so far today, which tells me we haven't been sold yet.
If the takeover had been completed, there'd be 2.5k new posts, CL would be in total meltdown and you wouldn't even be able to log on here.
And Doucher would be a hero.
I think people should try to concentrate on the team at the moment, this takeover has plenty of twists and turns left so I don't see the point in being impatient.
I expect this is what's holding up the deal, as it's down as a liability on the balance sheet, but Henry made sure there isn't actually a sofa.
It's the sort of responsible and detailed DD that Duchatalet never did.
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
RM has played a blinder for his boss and keeps his seat at the top table, which is, imo, all he has ever wanted.
Im really worried the old turd RD will still be in charge next season.
I also believe Murray will want to be around under the new ownership. so pissing off fans just before that happens wouldn't be the smartest move.
He has lost a lot of respect for sticking up for KM/RD, and IMO, should have distanced himself from them rather than continue to be the mouthpiece because it's only creating problems for him.
Protests at the Valley have always been more about the media cover having an effect on RD rather than a direct effect.
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
I imagine that's why this is dragging out, it'll be not only arguments over what monies Roland has any right to claim, but home much and in what timescales.
However, anything post-RD is going to be achieved with the backing of new owners and will be in spite of him and his regime, not because of him. You might stretch yourself a little further and maybe allow a small increment for promotion to the Championship within 2 years, but nothing more.
That's like saying if the new owners make a lucrative deal/contract a year after buying then the previous owners earn an extra payment?