This can't go on for much longer, we won't have any planning for next season, be that contracts, manager or purchases for the squad, to selling season tickets.
There is a point where business as usual needs to happen, or next season one way or the other is going to be the mother of all clusterfucks.
I would not be so pessimistic. A football club will have players identified for life in either division they find themselves, and I am not sure how many of our players are out of contract this summer, but I did not think we had any?
Season tickets would of course been on sale by now, and I am a bit surprised that Rolly has not tried it on. Numbers for tickets can only go up, unfortunately the same for prices!
As for managers, we have a good one in place and hopefully he would want to stay. If not, managers come and go all the time.
Obviously it would be better if all sorted, but need not be a complete disaster.
nor am I BUT at the moment we are playing all the loanees so even losing all them would be a massive blow.
We managed to get Mavididi, Zyro and Kaikai in January despite the club operating on autopilot. We still have a scouting setup, and must be an attractive option for young players, with our location and infrastructure, even with the instability elsewhere
For the time being maybe. Don't think Roland has ever been that desperate to sell. Not saying he won't mind, just think there could be a bit more distance to tread.
Looking around today, people are starting to come back regardless. There's a bit of a buzz around the place. Add to that a lucrative run in with a possible play off semi final and final ahead and all that brings. Shirts & merchandise will be flying off the shelves! ( Heard a few as I was walking out saying they are going to pop in the shop to get the home shirt) as the Bowyer bounce bounds on. And then who knows?
Went in the shop after the game to kill time before my train, place was rammed and queue for the tills was winding around the isles, bowyer bounce seems to be working, heard European & American accents
Retail is outsourced though so little of that going to the club.
Shirts heavily discounted too I'm told.
No Prem games so the tourists came to Charlton. All good but not a major shift.
But gate was up, in part to Bowyer bounce and Duchatelet about to go.
Yes I heard the lady at the ticket office ask for tickets for the best seats in the house as they had come all the way from Ireland for this game. I looked at her son and gave him my most pitying of looks.
This can't go on for much longer, we won't have any planning for next season, be that contracts, manager or purchases for the squad, to selling season tickets.
There is a point where business as usual needs to happen, or next season one way or the other is going to be the mother of all clusterfucks.
I would not be so pessimistic. A football club will have players identified for life in either division they find themselves, and I am not sure how many of our players are out of contract this summer, but I did not think we had any?
Season tickets would of course been on sale by now, and I am a bit surprised that Rolly has not tried it on. Numbers for tickets can only go up, unfortunately the same for prices!
As for managers, we have a good one in place and hopefully he would want to stay. If not, managers come and go all the time.
Obviously it would be better if all sorted, but need not be a complete disaster.
nor am I BUT at the moment we are playing all the loanees so even losing all them would be a massive blow.
We managed to get Mavididi, Zyro and Kaikai in January despite the club operating on autopilot. We still have a scouting setup, and must be an attractive option for young players, with our location and infrastructure, even with the instability elsewhere
Sorry but are you assuming those deals were done on a whim in January? They would have been negotiated months in advance. At the moment nothing is happening at all and that will continue. Attractive option or not nobody is being signed. Players will be looking elsewhere until the owner decides to allow the club to function in some capicity to sign players ,renew contracts organise pre season etc.
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
When has Duchatelet ever done anything that makes sense?
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
If that is the case then close this thread because we ain't going to know anything until at least May 5th and then maybe not until May 27th.
Of course, if you really wanted the takeover to happen asap then we should have kept Robinson as he would have guaranteed that we would have been mid table by now & no way of extending the season.
As for players out of contract - I don't think there are many (Kashi the only one ?) and 3 of the loanees are unlikely to come back next season (Da Silva, Amos & Mavvy), Kaikai can go back now imo so only really leaves Zyro. I doubt if any, League 1 clubs are discussing new contracts with their current players at the moment & wont be until the season is over. If you want to see how discussing new contracts during the season can disrupt a side try having a look at the recently aired "Class of 92" documentary about Salford FC. Dressing room unrest & open disagreements because some players knew they weren't being kept on & therefore some of their team mates thought that they weren't pulling their weight.
I don't know what or if anything has changed. I assumed the Aussies were about to complete. All I know is my mob are still in, but still haven't agreed a price.
So not really relevant then are they (I'm not having a pop at you @Redhenry & always thankful of your posts).
I might like the look of a house in Keston selling for £5m, but if I only offer £250k I can hardly say that I'm "in the game".
I certainly wouldn't call them irrelevant. Do we know if anyone has agreed a price?
RH. So what exactly are you saying about this group? They made a bid and got knocked back? They are in serious negotiations? They made an enquiry but didn't like the sound of the price? Not having a dig, but how are they still 'involved'? What constitutes 'involved' I suppose is what I am asking?
The club must get enquiries every week. What makes this group any different from the many that have probably dissappeared.
Is it time for the Trust to contact Murray for an update on the sale and to ask what plans are in place for next season’s ticket prices season tickets etc?
There is no significant issue with the existing first-team contracts. Everyone in the first team squad apart from Harry Lennon and Ahmed Kashi (and Johnnie Jackson, who is retiring as a player) is signed up for next season. I doubt if Lennon is in a strong bargaining position - the club has an option to extend his deal and he isn't playing - while Kashi's future must be doubtful anyway because of his injury record.
More significant is the planning for the future. If the season ends strongly I doubt the season-ticket hold-up matters very much these days, with the opportunities to reach people online, except that some people do plan their finances around it. The current offer is very badly structured from a revenue perspective and needs to be revisited.
All sorts of commercial contracts will need to be renegotiated, which will be hard to do without any strategic oversight (not that Katrien Meire was capable of adding much anyway, but at least she was a decision-maker with a defined level of authority).
Presumably Steve Gallen is still employed, but without a permanent manager and no clarity over ownership he will be uncertain about his own future, never mind about potential targets - which price range as well as which division. The football planning for 2016/17 was a shambles and the consequences of that played out predictably.
There is no significant issue with the existing first-team contracts. Everyone in the first team squad apart from Harry Lennon and Ahmed Kashi (and Jackson, who is retiring as a player) is signed up for next season. I doubt if Lennon is in a strong bargaining position - the club has an option to extend his deal and he isn't playing - while Kashi's future must be doubtful anyway because of his injury record.
More significant is the planning for the future.
Sorry but I disagree with the first para, this assumes assumes players in contract will stay? What happens if they get a better offer? Is the club going to say no? With loanee's also gone there is no team. Meanwhile as every day passes with the club on lockdown, nothing is being organised and every club / agent is circling around to see what happens.
There is no significant issue with the existing first-team contracts. Everyone in the first team squad apart from Harry Lennon and Ahmed Kashi (and Jackson, who is retiring as a player) is signed up for next season. I doubt if Lennon is in a strong bargaining position - the club has an option to extend his deal and he isn't playing - while Kashi's future must be doubtful anyway because of his injury record.
More significant is the planning for the future.
Sorry but I disagree with the first para, this assumes assumes players in contract will stay? What happens if they get a better offer? Is the club going to say no? With loanee's also gone there is no team. Meanwhile as every day passes with the club on lockdown, nothing is being organised and every club / agent is circling around to see what happens.
the last para 100% agree.
That's a different question, because it implies there is a decision-making process as opposed to there not being one. By default, nothing happens.
I don't disagree that it's potentially damaging but unless decisions are being taken nobody under contract can leave.
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
Surely this?!?
At the start of next season he wont know what league we'll be in the following season. You can't hold on indefinitely so surely you just make a provision in the contract for all 3 eventualities?
Of course it would be great to get the takeover done this week but the way I see it, until we know what division we are in next year, new owners would be largely in limbo until they know what division we are in next year - that goes for player retention, player signings, manager / coach, season ticket prices possibly?? I think they 'd be making a mistake launching the season ticket sales before the takeover.
Of course it would be great to get the takeover done this week but the way I see it, until we know what division we are in next year, new owners would be largely in limbo until they know what division we are in next year - that goes for player retention, player signings, manager / coach, season ticket prices possibly?? I think they 'd be making a mistake launching the season ticket sales before the takeover.
You can't wait until the play-off final at the end of May to make plans, so I don't agree with that. You work up two options - and you would certainly be talking to agents now.
There is no significant issue with the existing first-team contracts. Everyone in the first team squad apart from Harry Lennon and Ahmed Kashi (and Jackson, who is retiring as a player) is signed up for next season. I doubt if Lennon is in a strong bargaining position - the club has an option to extend his deal and he isn't playing - while Kashi's future must be doubtful anyway because of his injury record.
More significant is the planning for the future.
Sorry but I disagree with the first para, this assumes assumes players in contract will stay? What happens if they get a better offer? Is the club going to say no? With loanee's also gone there is no team. Meanwhile as every day passes with the club on lockdown, nothing is being organised and every club / agent is circling around to see what happens.
the last para 100% agree.
That's a different question, because it implies there is a decision-making process as opposed to there not being one. By default, nothing happens.
I don't disagree that it's potentially damaging but unless decisions are being taken nobody under contract can leave.
Agreed, but as we have seen money talks - if a club want to buy a player, the owners track record says that he will suddenly talk and make a decision. Will be interesting to see what happens with Konsa for example once the transfer window reopens.
Of course it would be great to get the takeover done this week but the way I see it, until we know what division we are in next year, new owners would be largely in limbo until they know what division we are in next year - that goes for player retention, player signings, manager / coach, season ticket prices possibly?? I think they 'd be making a mistake launching the season ticket sales before the takeover.
You can't wait until the play-off final at the end of May to make plans, so I don't agree with that. You work up two options - and you would certainly be talking to agents now.
of course - our scouting has been pretty good this year so I'm sure that is all being done anyway but no buttons can be pushed until we know where we are
Yes I heard the lady at the ticket office ask for tickets in the best seats in the house as they had come all the way from Ireland for this game. I looked at her son and gave him my most pitying of looks.
I guess news of the demise of the fans' sofa hadn't crossed the Irish Sea.
If the owner is negotiating a sale of the Club, any upturn or downturn in form would be immaterial. If the owner decides to slow the sale just in case we make the play offs , the buyers would be off. There may be a clause inserted regarding promotion, but I doubt it. That would be similar to the £5 Burnley had to pay us when Pope got his England call up. Douchbag is very sharp.
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
Why does it make no sense ?
You are presuming that the only people interested in buying us are the ones currently st the table
As a Championship London club we are a much more valuable commodity
There could be several potentially interested parties that are not interested in buying a league one club or even entertain that idea regardless of price
The fact no fee has been agreed Is what brings me to that conclusion
This can't go on for much longer, we won't have any planning for next season, be that contracts, manager or purchases for the squad, to selling season tickets.
There is a point where business as usual needs to happen, or next season one way or the other is going to be the mother of all clusterfucks.
This is where you realise how good Katrien was at holding it all together.
This can't go on for much longer, we won't have any planning for next season, be that contracts, manager or purchases for the squad, to selling season tickets.
There is a point where business as usual needs to happen, or next season one way or the other is going to be the mother of all clusterfucks.
This is where you realise how good Katrien was at holding it all together.
I wonder if part of the issue with coming to an agreement on price isn't so much about the uncertainty about what division we are in, but rather Rolands actual valuation of the club if we were to go up?
I can see Roland way over-valuing us as a championship team - which a few weeks ago wouldn't have been seen as such a big problem/maybe was slightly easier to negotiate that price with him since it was less of a possibility - but since the upturn of form it is suddenly much more pertinant of an issue and Roland is now being more stubborn about his inflated price?
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
Why does it make no sense ?
You are presuming that the only people interested in buying us are the ones currently st the table
As a Championship London club we are a much more valuable commodity
There could be several potentially interested parties that are not interested in buying a league one club or even entertain that idea regardless of price
The fact no fee has been agreed Is what brings me to that conclusion
This. If promoted to the Division 2 the club is only one step away from the Promise Land where the pound notes grow in abundance.
The takeover won’t happen until it’s determined what league we are in next year I am convinced of that and have been since this all started
This exactly.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
That just makes no sense though. You put in the contract that the price now is X, plus Y if we get promoted. That way the new owners get to plan properly for the summer and Roland get's the monthly losses off his hands.
Surely this?!?
At the start of next season he wont know what league we'll be in the following season. You can't hold on indefinitely so surely you just make a provision in the contract for all 3 eventualities?
I also posted the view that a deal might stall until it was clear which league we would be in.
Agreeing one price is obviously a nightmare dealing with the mad genius, let alone three different prices. And that might possibly be the precise reason a deal can't be struck - it's just too messy a deal with bargaining positions miles apart and the Rat's price only worth paying if we are in the Championship.
Imagine if different bidders are making a different range of offers with one being the winner if we are promoted and another if we are not. The Rat is simply keeping his options open to ensure he doesn't risk going for the wrong deal by accepting a diminished League 1 valuation should we get promoted.
Surely promotion could be priced in.. probably Duche is expecting more buyers to be on the scene if we were promoted, and or perhaps he has an inflated vision of the price we are valued by being in the playoffs.
The thing is, this whole “no fee agreed” bit is now getting trotted out as gospel despite the official club stance being different and no proof to the contrary. If you want to buy a football club which loses £10M a year you need deep pockets and foresight/a plan. It is simple to have a clause in the contract as AB says, that it is price x for League One and price Y if promoted.
All the while RD is writing off £1M per month to a black hole then ‘hanging on’ for the off chance someone wants to pay more for a Champ club on promotion rather than building into a contract seems unlikely to me. Especially if that Championship club is confirmed on 27th May with no season tickets sold, no negotiations with players, no SMT etc meaning you have a couple of months left to sort all of that out but are willing to pay a premium just because you know you are a Championship.
I have no idea why the hold up but if I was buying I would want it done certainly before end of April absolute latest to allow me a reasonable time to put in everything needed to stabilise/move forwrds.
Comments
Shirts heavily discounted too I'm told.
No Prem games so the tourists came to Charlton. All good but not a major shift.
But gate was up, in part to Bowyer bounce and Duchatelet about to go.
RD isn’t going to sell a possible Championship club for League 1 value or any buyers aren’t going to buy a league 1 club for championship value.
I think that once it’s confirmed what league we are in, a deal will then be done.
Of course, if you really wanted the takeover to happen asap then we should have kept Robinson as he would have guaranteed that we would have been mid table by now & no way of extending the season.
As for players out of contract - I don't think there are many (Kashi the only one ?) and 3 of the loanees are unlikely to come back next season (Da Silva, Amos & Mavvy), Kaikai can go back now imo so only really leaves Zyro. I doubt if any, League 1 clubs are discussing new contracts with their current players at the moment & wont be until the season is over. If you want to see how discussing new contracts during the season can disrupt a side try having a look at the recently aired "Class of 92" documentary about Salford FC. Dressing room unrest & open disagreements because some players knew they weren't being kept on & therefore some of their team mates thought that they weren't pulling their weight.
Not having a dig, but how are they still 'involved'? What constitutes 'involved' I suppose is what I am asking?
The club must get enquiries every week. What makes this group any different from the many that have probably dissappeared.
I knew we should've kept Karl.
More significant is the planning for the future. If the season ends strongly I doubt the season-ticket hold-up matters very much these days, with the opportunities to reach people online, except that some people do plan their finances around it. The current offer is very badly structured from a revenue perspective and needs to be revisited.
All sorts of commercial contracts will need to be renegotiated, which will be hard to do without any strategic oversight (not that Katrien Meire was capable of adding much anyway, but at least she was a decision-maker with a defined level of authority).
Presumably Steve Gallen is still employed, but without a permanent manager and no clarity over ownership he will be uncertain about his own future, never mind about potential targets - which price range as well as which division. The football planning for 2016/17 was a shambles and the consequences of that played out predictably.
the last para 100% agree.
I don't disagree that it's potentially damaging but unless decisions are being taken nobody under contract can leave.
At the start of next season he wont know what league we'll be in the following season. You can't hold on indefinitely so surely you just make a provision in the contract for all 3 eventualities?
You are presuming that the only people interested in buying us are the ones currently st the table
As a Championship London club we are a much more valuable commodity
There could be several potentially interested parties that are not interested in buying a league one club or even entertain that idea regardless of price
The fact no fee has been agreed Is what brings me to that conclusion
I can see Roland way over-valuing us as a championship team - which a few weeks ago wouldn't have been seen as such a big problem/maybe was slightly easier to negotiate that price with him since it was less of a possibility - but since the upturn of form it is suddenly much more pertinant of an issue and Roland is now being more stubborn about his inflated price?
Agreeing one price is obviously a nightmare dealing with the mad genius, let alone three different prices. And that might possibly be the precise reason a deal can't be struck - it's just too messy a deal with bargaining positions miles apart and the Rat's price only worth paying if we are in the Championship.
Imagine if different bidders are making a different range of offers with one being the winner if we are promoted and another if we are not. The Rat is simply keeping his options open to ensure he doesn't risk going for the wrong deal by accepting a diminished League 1 valuation should we get promoted.
Bring back the bite size thread!
All the while RD is writing off £1M per month to a black hole then ‘hanging on’ for the off chance someone wants to pay more for a Champ club on promotion rather than building into a contract seems unlikely to me. Especially if that Championship club is confirmed on 27th May with no season tickets sold, no negotiations with players, no SMT etc meaning you have a couple of months left to sort all of that out but are willing to pay a premium just because you know you are a Championship.
I have no idea why the hold up but if I was buying I would want it done certainly before end of April absolute latest to allow me a reasonable time to put in everything needed to stabilise/move forwrds.