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Charlton vs Rochdale - Post Match Views - 1/10/16

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  • I feel that I must confess that I broke my boycott to go yesterday, mainly out of curiosity in all these new English league players that we have now and frankly just to be in the Valley one more time.
    It felt quite wrong giving RD any money at all but the £5 I think he would not notice and anyway I cannot get hold of all these free tickets that some posters seem to regularly get.

    To be honest it was a mistake for several reasons which are in no particular order:

    • I have lost all sense of excitement or attachment being there.
    • Not being able to book my old season ticket seat and having to sit next to a bunch of miserable and foul mouthed moaners that I though I had seen the last of!
    • No Chris Solly.
    • Being reminded of the poor quality of this league and the amount of foul play that goes unpunished.
    • No Chris Solly.
    • The apparent limited ability of the new players although Holmes was impressive if flawed like many wingers. I liked him though!
    • The negative play and lack of improvisation of the midfield and blimey is Foley capable of looking forward or what?
    • Boos at half time – best saved for full time if one feels the need IMO.
    • The present manager’s team set up (although reliant on the quality and availability of players – not enough and not of the necessary quality, as has been the case since RD arrived) and substitutions (same ‘although’ but also dependent on the fitness/injury carrying of the players involved – e.g. Holmes was taken off but it was reported that he was a likely to play…).
    • It was a poor game generally and the East stand was quieter than I remembered.
    • Other (probably several) reasons that I have forgotten….
    • No Chris Solly.

    Positives – well only one and that is obviously watching young Lookman again and for a whole match! He has come on a great deal since last season but now looks out of place with the lesser abilities of his team mates. I regret that I will never see him play again – for Charlton anyway!

    Back to the boycott!

    Nice to meet you yesterday Pete

    :wink:
  • our players are good but our manager is either out of his depth or cannot get the players that he has brought to the club to play his way......trouble is that it is down to him not the players. Why he kept jackson on when losing ; why he brought on ajose and novak; why he subbed Holmes. Cannot figure out any of this. Slade a nice bloke like Corbyn but where is his head at? The focus has to be on Slade and not the players.
  • LenGlover said:

    I feel that I must confess that I broke my boycott to go yesterday, mainly out of curiosity in all these new English league players that we have now and frankly just to be in the Valley one more time.
    It felt quite wrong giving RD any money at all but the £5 I think he would not notice and anyway I cannot get hold of all these free tickets that some posters seem to regularly get.

    To be honest it was a mistake for several reasons which are in no particular order:

    • I have lost all sense of excitement or attachment being there.
    • Not being able to book my old season ticket seat and having to sit next to a bunch of miserable and foul mouthed moaners that I though I had seen the last of!
    • No Chris Solly.
    • Being reminded of the poor quality of this league and the amount of foul play that goes unpunished.
    • No Chris Solly.
    • The apparent limited ability of the new players although Holmes was impressive if flawed like many wingers. I liked him though!
    • The negative play and lack of improvisation of the midfield and blimey is Foley capable of looking forward or what?
    • Boos at half time – best saved for full time if one feels the need IMO.
    • The present manager’s team set up (although reliant on the quality and availability of players – not enough and not of the necessary quality, as has been the case since RD arrived) and substitutions (same ‘although’ but also dependent on the fitness/injury carrying of the players involved – e.g. Holmes was taken off but it was reported that he was a likely to play…).
    • It was a poor game generally and the East stand was quieter than I remembered.
    • Other (probably several) reasons that I have forgotten….
    • No Chris Solly.

    Positives – well only one and that is obviously watching young Lookman again and for a whole match! He has come on a great deal since last season but now looks out of place with the lesser abilities of his team mates. I regret that I will never see him play again – for Charlton anyway!

    Back to the boycott!

    Nice to meet you yesterday Pete

    :wink:
    Nice to see you again too @LenGlover but really, three games on the trot you've been stalking me in the gents. People will talk ; - )
  • edited October 2016

    our players are good but our manager is either out of his depth or cannot get the players that he has brought to the club to play his way......trouble is that it is down to him not the players. Why he kept jackson on when losing ; why he brought on ajose and novak; why he subbed Holmes. Cannot figure out any of this. Slade a nice bloke like Corbyn but where is his head at? The focus has to be on Slade and not the players.

    We don't need a good bloke as a manager, or even someone British. We need a good manager who can make the best out of what Roland throws his way.

    Given the last 18 months and what we are seeing now in League 1, I am starting to think those who have argued Duchatalet's incompetence is deliberate (for what reasons I can't fathom) may have a point. It would account for why Daisy is there for one thing.
  • mogodon said:

    our players are good but our manager is either out of his depth or cannot get the players that he has brought to the club to play his way......trouble is that it is down to him not the players. Why he kept jackson on when losing ; why he brought on ajose and novak; why he subbed Holmes. Cannot figure out any of this. Slade a nice bloke like Corbyn but where is his head at? The focus has to be on Slade and not the players.

    We don't need a good bloke as a manager, or even someone British. We need a good manager who can make the best out of what Roland throws his way.

    Given the last 18 months and what we are seeing now in League 1, I am starting to think those who have argued Duchatalet's incompetence is deliberate (for what reasons I can't fathom) may have a point. It would account for why Daisy is there for one thing.
    It doesn't really explain giving costly long contracts to unsuitable players - there are plenty of unsuitable players to be had on the cheap.
  • That was awful. I've seen us 3 times this season (Cobblers, AFC W and this) and we get worse every time. I foolishly bought tickets for Coventry. At least I am looking forward to the protest.
    Had a long chat with a bloke who reckoned CARD was to blame for the performances. I disagreed, but there is no doubt that we are a fractured fanbase and there is no "pulling together" off or on the pitch. Who knew that the boycotters were the positive ones?

  • rananegra said:

    That was awful. I've seen us 3 times this season (Cobblers, AFC W and this) and we get worse every time. I foolishly bought tickets for Coventry. At least I am looking forward to the protest.
    Had a long chat with a bloke who reckoned CARD was to blame for the performances. I disagreed, but there is no doubt that we are a fractured fanbase and there is no "pulling together" off or on the pitch. Who knew that the boycotters were the positive ones?

    Laughable really. If CARD had disbanded in the summer, what would have been different on the pitch to date? Some of these people probably think the earth is flat.
    There are none so blind as those who will not see!
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  • Blucher said:

    Yesterday was better than Tuesday night's abject performance but not by much and the most we could ever have got away with was a point.

    We started reasonably well in the first 20 minutes but once we conceded, Rochdale were the better and more threatening side for the rest of the half. I don't know what was going on in our defence but we left their big centre-forward, Andrews, unmarked from two set plays and, with better finishing, he could have helped himself to a first half hat-trick.

    The missed penalty seemed to knock any stuffing and spirit out of an already weak side and although we exerted some pressure in the latter part of the game, that probably had more to do with Rochdale sitting deep and inviting us onto them. The ball wasn't sticking for them up front and my Rochdale supporting mates said that they missed the movement and energy of their best forward, Henderson, who got injured last Tuesday against Bolton.

    Lookman was (with the exception of his corners) different class, although he drifted deeper and deeper as the game went on to forage for the ball in a desperate effort to get things moving. Nothing went right for Ricky Holmes in the first half but he was much better in the second and worked like a trojan to try and get things moving. The Rochdale contingent said they were both delighted and astonished to see him being substituted. Once he left the field, we reverted to unadulterated hoofball, with predictable results. For the manager to suggest that the crowd were being disrespectful to Botaka by booing the substitution is thoroughly disingenuous on Slade's part.

    A major part of the blame for this latest shambolic display must rest with Slade. To start with Jacko 'in the hole' behind Magennis beggars belief, particularly given the latter's lack of pace and confidence. This harebrained tactical plan was presumably hatched at Sparrow's Lane sometime after Tuesday night's debacle and then 'worked on' over the next day or two in training. I'm afraid that it reinforces the view that Slade is running out of ideas and has no real concept of how he wants us to play, let alone how this is going to be achieved. This, in turn, looks like it is feeding its through to the players and experience tells us that once they have no faith in the manager and his staff, the outcome is usually terminal.

    Another irritation for me is that many of our players seem to be constantly changing positions at regular intervals. I understand the rationale of wingers sometimes switching sides, depending upon how the game is going, but this constant fiddling around seems to be confusing us rather than the opposition. On the basis that we are not trying to emulate the 'total football' of the Netherlands @ circa 1974, maybe we should keep it simple and try and develop a few partnerships in the team.

    Slade's operating conditions under this toxic regime are obviously very difficult and things were always going to turn ugly if he could not establish us in the top half of the table. In terms of playing resources, our central midfield is lamentable, although he must take his share of responsibility for that, given that this has been writ large from day one and that Crofts is looking like a dud signing. The playing resources at Slade's disposal dwarf those of most other teams in this league and the team is, on any view, massively underachieving. What's more, things are getting worse - much worse - rather than better and that is very ominous, as we drift towards the relegation zone.

    At least we - the supporters, not the team - now have a couple of weeks off to recharge our batteries before the protests reignite on 15th.

    Not going Tuesday night then.....
  • A day and a bit to be a bit more rational with a reflection instead of just a swear word every few words.

    Like everyone else has probably said, what was the plan? When the plan wasn't working where was the change?

    What summed it up for me was the last 4 minutes of injury time, we launch a ball up front, to try and put pressure on their back four and win a header. Now by this point our target man is off the pitch, so we put a center half up there, who is unable to win anything. Okay, first one is headed back to us, so surely play it wide and isolate their full backs who we have had joy against.....nope we hoof again and it comes back. got another chance so play it out wi....nope we have gone long and lost out again, repeat another couple of times. Absolutely pathetic and nonsensical.

    The lack of energy in midfield is so depressing, we get dictated by teams who like to press and make our midfielders panic and not sure what to do.

    I love Jacko, but his influence on the game yesterday was non existent and that was clear to see within an hour.....why was he playing the whole 90?

    Lookman was the best player by a country mile, he had a few poor corners, but without him we wouldn't even have got into those positions. He glided through players, looked to move the ball quickly and wanted it back straight away in tight spaces. Basically a modern day, quick thinking footballer who is hungry to be on the ball and make things happen.

    Maybe i'm a rare thinker, but when your centre half is chasing a ball which has gone over his head, been chased by an attacker and can only go back to the keeper, then he should go back to the keeper. Yesterday Bauer found himself in that position, he passed back to Rudd as he had nowhere else to go.....then there was an eruption of boo's. Me and my mate were baffled, what was he supposed to do? Cruyff turn with the ball just inside his hal, lose possession and not be able to catch the striker as he ran through on goal? I don't get it. Guy behind us booed and shouted "forward!"......ridiculous.

    Tactically we were appalling, no direction, no drive, no ideas, no creativity, no plan A yet alone B. If you play 1 up top, why go long ball, why play long balls to Magennis for him to flick on to himself? 5 in midfield means a few players should be able to create a chance for your attacking wingers and your striker.....no chance.

    Dire, how does it get better?
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves
  • Blucher said:

    Yesterday was better than Tuesday night's abject performance but not by much and the most we could ever have got away with was a point.

    We started reasonably well in the first 20 minutes but once we conceded, Rochdale were the better and more threatening side for the rest of the half. I don't know what was going on in our defence but we left their big centre-forward, Andrews, unmarked from two set plays and, with better finishing, he could have helped himself to a first half hat-trick.

    The missed penalty seemed to knock any stuffing and spirit out of an already weak side and although we exerted some pressure in the latter part of the game, that probably had more to do with Rochdale sitting deep and inviting us onto them. The ball wasn't sticking for them up front and my Rochdale supporting mates said that they missed the movement and energy of their best forward, Henderson, who got injured last Tuesday against Bolton.

    Lookman was (with the exception of his corners) different class, although he drifted deeper and deeper as the game went on to forage for the ball in a desperate effort to get things moving. Nothing went right for Ricky Holmes in the first half but he was much better in the second and worked like a trojan to try and get things moving. The Rochdale contingent said they were both delighted and astonished to see him being substituted. Once he left the field, we reverted to unadulterated hoofball, with predictable results. For the manager to suggest that the crowd were being disrespectful to Botaka by booing the substitution is thoroughly disingenuous on Slade's part.

    A major part of the blame for this latest shambolic display must rest with Slade. To start with Jacko 'in the hole' behind Magennis beggars belief, particularly given the latter's lack of pace and confidence. This harebrained tactical plan was presumably hatched at Sparrow's Lane sometime after Tuesday night's debacle and then 'worked on' over the next day or two in training. I'm afraid that it reinforces the view that Slade is running out of ideas and has no real concept of how he wants us to play, let alone how this is going to be achieved. This, in turn, looks like it is feeding its through to the players and experience tells us that once they have no faith in the manager and his staff, the outcome is usually terminal.

    Another irritation for me is that many of our players seem to be constantly changing positions at regular intervals. I understand the rationale of wingers sometimes switching sides, depending upon how the game is going, but this constant fiddling around seems to be confusing us rather than the opposition. On the basis that we are not trying to emulate the 'total football' of the Netherlands @ circa 1974, maybe we should keep it simple and try and develop a few partnerships in the team.

    Slade's operating conditions under this toxic regime are obviously very difficult and things were always going to turn ugly if he could not establish us in the top half of the table. In terms of playing resources, our central midfield is lamentable, although he must take his share of responsibility for that, given that this has been writ large from day one and that Crofts is looking like a dud signing. The playing resources at Slade's disposal dwarf those of most other teams in this league and the team is, on any view, massively underachieving. What's more, things are getting worse - much worse - rather than better and that is very ominous, as we drift towards the relegation zone.

    At least we - the supporters, not the team - now have a couple of weeks off to recharge our batteries before the protests reignite on 15th.

    This.
  • purdis said:

    SDAddick said:

    Tutt-Tutt said:

    For all the talk at East Kent Addicks this week, explaining analytics, consolidated scouting reports on the opposition, with a PowerPoint presentation, Brussell managed to pick the wrong system, with the wrong tactics, as well as the wrong team selection. Then made the wrong substitution late on. A lower league manager making lower league mistakes.

    Don't let Slade tell you it was 4-3-3. We had two central midfielders in Crofts & Ulvestad, with Holmes on the right, Lookman on the left, Jacko in the no.10 role, behind the lone CF Maginnis. 4-4-1-1 to 4-2-3-1. Rochdale were in a straightforward 4-4-2. Why not match up with them and allow our superior individuals beat their individuals in one-against-one contests across the pitch? If Rochdale caught him out by playing 4-4-2, then why not change it after twenty minutes, when it was clear to everyone in the ground that the system wasn't working? I got the impression that Nugent was agitated by the way it was going midway through the first half. However, Brussell's in-decision was final.


    Jacko hasn't got the legs to play the no.10 role. What a strange selection? Was it to play him in a role that allowed him the luxury of not having to run back? There was nothing positive from that selection, Jacko wasn't involved in the game, he failed to get forward in support of the lone CF and was too slow in closing down the opposition Back Four, who continuously got out of the defensive third into midfield. He spent the first half chasing shadows. When he was finally switched with Lookman, we caused them problems. Prior to that, we were awful. We then had the Holmes substitution, which was unbelievable.

    Thank Christ for Lookman. He is a joy to watch and improving with every game. He would suit a Championship promotion chasing club, rather than stepping up to the Premier League. Gradual progression would be of more benefit to him than a big jump. Norwich would be a good fit. He also needs to be on the edge of the box at corners, not taking them. He has the quick feet and the shot to be able to score from those positions if a corner is half-cleared.

    It absolutely blows my mind that we can start with 3-5 players in midfield and still not dominate a match. I imagine that yes, a no.10 role for Jacko was to alleviate running, but it's not something he's suited to, especially when he's having to work when not in possession or try to read flick-ons/knock-downs. In a more controlled game where he can ghost into the box, maybe.

    The problem with matching them with 4-4-2 is we've shown that we get overrun in that system, particularly with Slade's one winger one Jackson on the left policy. All our attacks go down the right and by the sounds of things we're utterly predictable.

    I think sometimes (and I'm as guilty as anyone of this) we get bogged down in formations instead of styles and patterns of play. As Jonathan Wilson says, formations are just numbers, it's what you do with them. For me a 4-3-3 should suit the strengths and cover the weaknesses of a lot of our players. But if the opposition press us and we have no other ideas but to hoof it long, and if we end up reverting to a 4-1-4-1 at home against Rochdale because we don't know how to keep the ball, that's not so much the formation as the lack of a way of playing. We can talk about playing one forward but if executed well we should have had three forwards and/or a forward with a line of attacking three just behind him. Clearly that didn't happen...again. That's not formations, that's coaching.
    Regarding Jacko. I think Slade must read this forum because a number of fairly knowledgable individuals have suggested on here that is the only role for him these days - as a number ten/playing behind a from two and I could see that but even that didn't work for reasons already highlighted on here.
    Quite. There were definitely a few that thought Jackson should be played up front, laughable.
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
  • rananegra said:

    Had a long chat with a bloke who reckoned CARD was to blame for the performances.

    That's probably the same guy who populates SE7 Valiants and ITTV and claims most week to have spoken to CARD members who are delighted we have lost.

    As an aside, why has ITTV become home to a handful of people (most booted off here) who almost obsessively hate CARD as well as @Airman Brown. Am I missing something but it does seem rather odd as we are all, when all is said and done, supporters of Charlton.
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    Shut up lofty
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    Shut up lofty
    Ffs don't start, I'm being serious(for once).

    I'll give you 24 hours to think of a credible candidate.
  • edited October 2016
    mogodon said:

    rananegra said:

    Had a long chat with a bloke who reckoned CARD was to blame for the performances.

    That's probably the same guy who populates SE7 Valiants and ITTV and claims most week to have spoken to CARD members who are delighted we have lost.

    As an aside, why has ITTV become home to a handful of people (most booted off here) who almost obsessively hate CARD as well as @Airman Brown. Am I missing something but it does seem rather odd as we are all, when all is said and done, supporters of Charlton.
    Jealousy?
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  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    Shut up lofty
    Ffs don't start, I'm being serious(for once).

    I'll give you 24 hours to think of a credible candidate.
    Bully
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    It's a fair point. We are one of the few clubs who cannot chose who we really want, rather pick from whichever clueless third-rate continentals or utterly desperate Brits actually show interest. And that is entirely the fault of the regime.
  • 1se7 said:

    The fact is on today's performance we wouldn't even compete in league 4.WE have a non league squad.

    The point is, its not a non-league squad, far from it. Rudd, Fox, Bauer, Pearce, Holmes, Lookman, Ulvestad, Novak and Magennis would get into most if not all league one starting XIs.

    That says all you need to know about Slade.

    He has had a pre-season and 12 league games and he still has no pattern of play, alternative game plan neither does he know his best team. Its bollocks to be honest.
    Agreed and you can add Solly and Ajose to that list.

    The squad needs 2 decent centre mids, who aren't past it, but even so Slade should have enough nouse to have us in the top half as an absolute minimum.

    I've not seen one team, we shouldn't be capable of beating.
  • It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    Shut up lofty
    Ffs don't start, I'm being serious(for once).

    I'll give you 24 hours to think of a credible candidate.
    Bully
    Ffs, okay I'll give you 72 hours then. I realise it is a hard question.
  • mogodon said:

    It gets better when SLADE leaves

    Realistically, who would come in next? Give me a name.

    And we're not going to get involved in the same exchange as this afternoon!
    It's a fair point. We are one of the few clubs who cannot chose who we really want, rather pick from whichever clueless third-rate continentals or utterly desperate Brits actually show interest. And that is entirely the fault of the regime.
    Blackpool72, listen to Mogodon.

    I'll give you a week now as this answer of yours in getting more difficult by the second!!!
  • The hardest part about this shambolic period of being a Charlton fan is trying to get the next generation to support us. My 7 year old son turned to me and asked can we not bother going back anymore......... Cheers Roland, Slade, and Katrien.
  • The hardest part about this shambolic period of being a Charlton fan is trying to get the next generation to support us. My 7 year old son turned to me and asked can we not bother going back anymore......... Cheers Roland, Slade, and Katrien.

    :(
  • The hardest part about this shambolic period of being a Charlton fan is trying to get the next generation to support us. My 7 year old son turned to me and asked can we not bother going back anymore......... Cheers Roland, Slade, and Katrien.

    I've said that so many times. Both my boys ( 9 and 6) now have very little interest in Charlton. The eldest was asked the other day at a party who he supported and he said West Ham - just because he was embarrased to say Charlton. A couple of years ago that would have given me the right hump. But as he looked over at me and his mum for our approval, we just smiled and gave him the thumbs up so he knew we weren't cross!

    How could we be? Afterwards, he came over to me to reassure me he still 'liked' Charlton, but I can tell he may grow up with a soft spot for the club, but he'll never be a Charlton fan. As for my youngest, 'his' team changes every couple of weeks, but it's never been Charlton.
  • The hardest part about this shambolic period of being a Charlton fan is trying to get the next generation to support us. My 7 year old son turned to me and asked can we not bother going back anymore......... Cheers Roland, Slade, and Katrien.

    Tell him no sweets and crisps unless he watches Charlton first!
  • Last season we had season tickets and the ex used to take the lad to home games when it was her weekend.

    This weekend I couldn't persuade her to take him even when offering to buy them tickets for a fiver.

    She felt quite chuffed about swerving it as well.

    Can't blame her, I sat through it and wished I hadn't bothered .
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Roland Out Forever!