In my mind it is all or nothing - if people in CARD deem it appropriate to buy a season ticket then I don't think they can call for a boycott.
I don't see why I should then go without, if the main protest group aren't backing it?
I will wait till the last minute as I don't care about my seat.
Indeed. If they call for a boycott then they should do the same. Anything else and they will come across like that Arse that went to Belgium then promised a pitch invasion before he changed his mind and told no one.
On a related subject if CARD are actually asking fans not to renew until July and the club know this is going to happen then despite a few unknowns are they not, inadvertently, ensuring that all those that renew late just pay £25 more each. If that happens to be, say, 5,000 fans it benefits the club by £125k. If Roland leaves before July then great but if he doesn't then that sounds a little like an own goal to me.
Or have I missed something?
Yes I think you have missed something.
Firstly, despite Duchatelet’s deluded view of his own omnipotence, there is no way the club will ‘know’ that the (hopefully) low renewal rate is due to CARD supporters delaying or is the result of a general disengagement with the club by fans.
Secondly, the club very carefully says "Fans can guarantee their seat and save up to £25 for the season until the early bird deadline on Saturday, April 16th". Bearing in mind that that statement was issued when there was still a possibility of avoiding relegation – particularly if you were in denial and ‘not preparing for relegation’ as the club claimed – then I think it’s very unlikely that ‘delayers’ will pay anything like an additional £25, if anything at all.
For the same reason (as I posted before) I think it's highly likely, as happened 2 years ago, that the 'deadline' will be extended after the weekend "due to our league position".
Die-hard fans know they are going to turn up next season whatever happens so they might as well renew their season ticket before the deadline.
Why can't some people get that by delaying buying makes it very difficult to plan/budget for the regime. It adds a lot of uncertainty and risk. This financial risk increases the chance of RD selling in the summer. Please wait, for most people have nothing to lose by waiting
I'm happy to delay buying, but don't agree that the uncertainty necessarily increases the chance of RD selling. It could certainly have an affect on our transfer budget this summer though, and as the last two summers have shown, that's when you need to build your squad for the season, not January. £800k of season ticket money entering the club's coffers in mid August might be too late.
If there was a buyer out there, waiting to take over right now, then things would be different. Relegation certainly doesn't improve that likelihood - would Peter Varney's foreign contacts be interested in a L1 club? It's not as if they wanted to buy us due to a lifelong love for the club.
I agree it doesn't "necessarily" mean he will sell. But it does increase the chance he will realise his plan is financially unviable and want to sell. Whether he will, no-one of us has a clue. As to the level of season ticket money defining how he build next season; this would be a totally different Duchalet to what has been seen so far. As to whether a buyer is still out there, we have to hope there is otherwise we are totally doomed.
Die-hard fans know they are going to turn up next season whatever happens so they might as well renew their season ticket before the deadline.
Why can't some people get that by delaying buying makes it very difficult to plan/budget for the regime. It adds a lot of uncertainty and risk. This financial risk increases the chance of RD selling in the summer. Please wait, for most people have nothing to lose by waiting
I'm happy to delay buying, but don't agree that the uncertainty necessarily increases the chance of RD selling. It could certainly have an affect on our transfer budget this summer though, and as the last two summers have shown, that's when you need to build your squad for the season, not January. £800k of season ticket money entering the club's coffers in mid August might be too late. If there was a buyer out there, waiting to take over right now, then things would be different. Relegation certainly doesn't improve that likelihood - would Peter Varney's foreign contacts be interested in a L1 club? It's not as if they wanted to buy us due to a lifelong love for the club.
Die-hard fans know they are going to turn up next season whatever happens so they might as well renew their season ticket before the deadline.
Why can't some people get that by delaying buying makes it very difficult to plan/budget for the regime. It adds a lot of uncertainty and risk. This financial risk increases the chance of RD selling in the summer. Please wait, for most people have nothing to lose by waiting
Ok, I understand the plan now, make them believe they are going to get less money in so they have to sell more players...fcking genius plan, beats me why i didn't wait before I bought my ticket
I heard that under 1k tickets have been sold so far.
As a matter of interest, how does this compare to previous (normal) seasons. I guess a drop-off would be expected with relegation, so is this 20%, 40% or what lower than usual at this stage.
I'll have look at previous years when I get a chance, but there's always a big bulge in deadline week. So IF they've got about 1,000 now, I would guess it will be 3,000-plus by the end of the weekend. That number would be a complete and utter disaster by any standard back to 1997 though.
This wasn't a prediction, by the way. I don't have a clue what the number will be, the point I was making is that even today's figure wouldn't be a good guide to the figure on Saturday.
I had to laugh at the idea they will close online renewal at current prices at 5.15 on Saturday though, reported on the website, where it also says all tickets WILL go up by £25. Just why would you not allow people to renew online on Sunday, if for example, they'd been reminded at the match or changed their minds. How does that benefit what they are trying to do?
Renewals will be very low we all know that. It reflects the league position first and foremost.
If some choose to renew early so be it I really am unconvinced it's going to make a difference to RD. He will either invest in the team to regain Championship status or he won't and that will not be evident until August!
A season ticket offers marginal financial advantage to those of us who inevitably miss a few games to other commitments throughout the season and it's not really such an inconvenience to buy match by match. The volume of empty seats doesn't really restrict your chosen vantage point either. It's sometimes a novelty to watch from a different seat. In League 1 therefore foregoing a season ticket can just be a wise financial choice.
I am not convinced the CARD initiative in this regard will have any real impact.
The protests during a match are far more effective and adding to the experience currently!
In my mind it is all or nothing - if people in CARD deem it appropriate to buy a season ticket then I don't think they can call for a boycott.
I don't see why I should then go without, if the main protest group aren't backing it?
I will wait till the last minute as I don't care about my seat.
Indeed. If they call for a boycott then they should do the same. Anything else and they will come across like that Arse that went to Belgium then promised a pitch invasion before he changed his mind and told no one.
On a related subject if CARD are actually asking fans not to renew until July and the club know this is going to happen then despite a few unknowns are they not, inadvertently, ensuring that all those that renew late just pay £25 more each. If that happens to be, say, 5,000 fans it benefits the club by £125k. If Roland leaves before July then great but if he doesn't then that sounds a little like an own goal to me.
Or have I missed something?
Yes I think you have missed something.
Firstly, despite Duchatelet’s deluded view of his own omnipotence, there is no way the club will ‘know’ that the (hopefully) low renewal rate is due to CARD supporters delaying or is the result of a general disengagement with the club by fans.
If as many people as possible complete the Trust survey - now nearly at 2,000 responses - we will have a good idea why people are/ aren't renewing.
I'm not going to renew, but I still want to go and watch Charlton. Easy solution, away games only.
Baffles me that people can moan and groan about the ownership all season and then just line their pockets with a new ST. It strikes me as being awfully similar to those that couldn't walk out against Boro because we were winning, it's about the bigger picture.
I can understand why people will boycott buying a ST for next season. I am one of them. It's not only becuase I want to hurt the owners financially, but I also have no interest in watching the exceptionally poor team at the moment and get very little enjoyment from attending games. The appeal is even less when considering a watered down squad and League 1 opposition........
I can also understand those that have renewed their ST's for a variety of reasons.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
I can understand why people will boycott buying a ST for next season. I am one of them. It's not only becuase I want to hurt the owners financially, but I also have no interest in watching the exceptionally poor team at the moment and get very little enjoyment from attending games. The appeal is even less when considering a watered down squad and League 1 opposition........
I can also understand those that have renewed their ST's for a variety of reasons.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
Well I think you have it there.
The downside of not renewing now is that there is a miniscule risk of losing your seat, and there might be a paltry £25 penalty.
The upside is that it might force the regime into a re-think of everything, and to not be able to say that there are tons of renewals so we must be content with what is happening.
Even if people renew at the last second their motivation may well be to be there to protest, and because if they don't go, this regime will really have 'taken my Charlton away'.
People who go only to away games understand full well that it is because they want to express to the regime that they have loyalty to the concept, meaning, and history of this club, and they won't let the regime take that from them.
I wonder if the 'support the team not the regime' will be the refrain next season. The so called team and management of the football side is welded to the approach of this regime, so any fans in attendance will have very little sympathy and understanding and mercy as the chite results continue. And even if this lot walk the division next season (which incidentally will not happen in my view) then we will only be back where we started.
A lot of the emails to fans talk of building bridges but for one it won't happen, and for two it's too late.
A lot of supporters will swing back fully behind the club if this regime goes away.
The only other way it will happen is something like appoint a proper manager (I know who I would choose), give them a huge budget to play with and full autonomy, and make season tickets £50 all round, and to wipe out the club debt at a stroke and complete Sparrows Lane.
Roland is rich enough to do that but he clearly won't.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
I'm one of those people. For me it's about delaying the decision, which in the meantime means the club loses out on some upfront cash an they may, just may, decide that they need to change their ways in order to encourage people like me to come back.
I know it's unlikely, but it is at least sending the message that I'm not just going to passively renew year on year.
Come August, who knows. But if I had to decide right now then I wouldn't be renewing. I'm not even going to home games now, so it would be a complete waste of money.
Hope that goes some way to explaining the thought process, for me at least.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
I'm one of those people. For me it's about delaying the decision, which in the meantime means the club loses out on some upfront cash an they may, just may, decide that they need to change their ways in order to encourage people like me to come back.
I know it's unlikely, but it is at least sending the message that I'm not just going to passively renew year on year.
Come August, who knows. But if I had to decide right now then I wouldn't be renewing. I'm not even going to home games now, so it would be a complete waste of money.
Hope that goes some way to explaining the thought process, for me at least.
Thanks.....it kind of does yes. But at the end of the day, does buying a season ticket late actually send any sort of message to the club, or does it just look like you've missed the previous deadline and possibly had to pay more as a result.
The end result is the same. The club have an extra season ticket sale and money from that sale. You have a season ticket albeit a slightly more expensive one. We're still in League 1. We've still got RD and KM a the helm etc....
This is not directed at you, but, what happens if nothing changes? Do all those that were waiting for some sort of change not buy one at all, or do they still buy one?
Personally, I think if you're going to buy one, you may aswell buy it now, possibly save a few quid and get the seat you want and allow the club to include your slice of income in their budget for next season. I don't really see any benefit or real point in delaying a purchase?
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
I'm one of those people. For me it's about delaying the decision, which in the meantime means the club loses out on some upfront cash an they may, just may, decide that they need to change their ways in order to encourage people like me to come back.
I know it's unlikely, but it is at least sending the message that I'm not just going to passively renew year on year.
Come August, who knows. But if I had to decide right now then I wouldn't be renewing. I'm not even going to home games now, so it would be a complete waste of money.
Hope that goes some way to explaining the thought process, for me at least.
Thanks.....it kind of does yes. But at the end of the day, does buying a season ticket late actually send any sort of message to the club, or does it just look like you've missed the previous deadline and possibly had to pay more as a result.
The end result is the same. The club have an extra season ticket sale and money from that sale. You have a season ticket albeit a slightly more expensive one. We're still in League 1. We've still got RD and KM a the helm etc....
This is not directed at you, but, what happens if nothing changes? Do all those that were waiting for some sort of change not buy one at all, or do they still buy one?
Personally, I think if you're going to buy one, you may aswell buy it now, possibly save a few quid and get the seat you want and allow the club to include your slice of income in their budget for next season. I don't really see any benefit or real point in delaying a purchase?
But, even if, for example, 50% of current ST holders were going to renew at the last minute, the club cannot budget on the assumption that that will happen. If they are at all financially prudent, they can only operate on the basis of the known income. It is precisely this uncertainty that will hurt the Duchatelet model.
The Shareholder will have to dip into his own pockets (if only he can reach that far) to cover any potential shortfall. With tickets comprising a greater share of any income at the club (barring sales of players), it is much more likely that an at least vaguely Bolshie fanbase is more likely to have an impact.
Mind you, while I can understand some people renewing early, for their own reasons and with a degree of regret in the light of the CARD campaign (and in the same position most of us would probably do the same), I am mystified why some seem so happy to renew so soon. As far as I am concerned (and I admit that being in Northern Ireland it is not the same issue for me), to willingly purchase a season ticket at this stage, is to miss the point of campaigning against the regime.
My current seat costs £525, which I think is far too high in League One. I haven't renewed yet and may well not do so, but if the seat cost rises after the deadline, I will be even less likely to renew.
just renewed my 3, totally support the protest etc....but it's in my blood (and it's the only way I get to disappear for 6 hours on a Saturday...if I said to the missus that I'm going down the pub for 6 hours on a Saturday then I'd get a stern look)..
A possible £25 premium to put just a little more pressure on KM and to encourage her never to return from her rat run to Dubai is in my view a relatively small investment to make for the greater good - and even better Roly I might just roll up the winnings to ensure you are next!
They are not going to win - and the sooner RD's great analytical mind works that out the better.
Question for @Airman Brown if he knows the answer.....
With the finance option on the season ticket, when do the club get the money? Up front off the finance company and then the season ticket holder pays the finance company back? Or does the club get it in instalments off the finance company as the season ticket holder pays them?
And if there is a white knight out there willing to take us over and relieve us from this nightmare - I would happily commit to paying a further £25 premium for the season ticket and to sign up to Valley Gold once they have completed the deal.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
I'm one of those people. For me it's about delaying the decision, which in the meantime means the club loses out on some upfront cash an they may, just may, decide that they need to change their ways in order to encourage people like me to come back.
I know it's unlikely, but it is at least sending the message that I'm not just going to passively renew year on year.
Come August, who knows. But if I had to decide right now then I wouldn't be renewing. I'm not even going to home games now, so it would be a complete waste of money.
Hope that goes some way to explaining the thought process, for me at least.
Thanks.....it kind of does yes. But at the end of the day, does buying a season ticket late actually send any sort of message to the club, or does it just look like you've missed the previous deadline and possibly had to pay more as a result.
The end result is the same. The club have an extra season ticket sale and money from that sale. You have a season ticket albeit a slightly more expensive one. We're still in League 1. We've still got RD and KM a the helm etc....
This is not directed at you, but, what happens if nothing changes? Do all those that were waiting for some sort of change not buy one at all, or do they still buy one?
Personally, I think if you're going to buy one, you may aswell buy it now, possibly save a few quid and get the seat you want and allow the club to include your slice of income in their budget for next season. I don't really see any benefit or real point in delaying a purchase?
No worries.
Personally I think that even if you ARE going to buy one then hang on as late as possible for the reasons given above, even if it means paying a "£25 premium".
If money is that much of an issue then just get your new ticket in one of the cheaper spots and make it back that way.
Hardly any London or Southern teams next year. Even less if Millwall or Gills go up. Away days will involve long journeys to depressing places that don't serve beer in the away end.
And yet that is still preferable to many people than the prospect of giving RD their wedge.
Well done those chaps, I admire your determination.
Comments
Firstly, despite Duchatelet’s deluded view of his own omnipotence, there is no way the club will ‘know’ that the (hopefully) low renewal rate is due to CARD supporters delaying or is the result of a general disengagement with the club by fans.
Secondly, the club very carefully says "Fans can guarantee their seat and save up to £25 for the season until the early bird deadline on Saturday, April 16th". Bearing in mind that that statement was issued when there was still a possibility of avoiding relegation – particularly if you were in denial and ‘not preparing for relegation’ as the club claimed – then I think it’s very unlikely that ‘delayers’ will pay anything like an additional £25, if anything at all.
For the same reason (as I posted before) I think it's highly likely, as happened 2 years ago, that the 'deadline' will be extended after the weekend "due to our league position".
As to the level of season ticket money defining how he build next season; this would be a totally different Duchalet to what has been seen so far.
As to whether a buyer is still out there, we have to hope there is otherwise we are totally doomed.
Maybe you could explain....
I had to laugh at the idea they will close online renewal at current prices at 5.15 on Saturday though, reported on the website, where it also says all tickets WILL go up by £25. Just why would you not allow people to renew online on Sunday, if for example, they'd been reminded at the match or changed their minds. How does that benefit what they are trying to do?
5k - 8k season tickets with 3-5k bought just before the season starts, significant boycott.
Maybe they can sell out the ground at tickets for £2 walk up on the day.
Can't see the season ticket holders being too happy about that....even in the lower north.
If some choose to renew early so be it I really am unconvinced it's going to make a difference to RD. He will either invest in the team to regain Championship status or he won't and that will not be evident until August!
A season ticket offers marginal financial advantage to those of us who inevitably miss a few games to other commitments throughout the season and it's not really such an inconvenience to buy match by match. The volume of empty seats doesn't really restrict your chosen vantage point either. It's sometimes a novelty to watch from a different seat. In League 1 therefore foregoing a season ticket can just be a wise financial choice.
I am not convinced the CARD initiative in this regard will have any real impact.
The protests during a match are far more effective and adding to the experience currently!
For anyone who has not yet done it: Trust season ticket survey
Baffles me that people can moan and groan about the ownership all season and then just line their pockets with a new ST. It strikes me as being awfully similar to those that couldn't walk out against Boro because we were winning, it's about the bigger picture.
I can also understand those that have renewed their ST's for a variety of reasons.
What does still puzzle me are those that are not YET renewing their ST, but may do so in June/July? What is it that will make you all of a sudden decide to renew? What change are you expecting/anticipating that will make you feel the time is then right to renew? I find this stance more bizarre than either renewing or not renewing....It's like a game of 'chicken' between the supporter and the club with the club winning at the last second?
The downside of not renewing now is that there is a miniscule risk of losing your seat, and there might be a paltry £25 penalty.
The upside is that it might force the regime into a re-think of everything, and to not be able to say that there are tons of renewals so we must be content with what is happening.
Even if people renew at the last second their motivation may well be to be there to protest, and because if they don't go, this regime will really have 'taken my Charlton away'.
People who go only to away games understand full well that it is because they want to express to the regime that they have loyalty to the concept, meaning, and history of this club, and they won't let the regime take that from them.
I wonder if the 'support the team not the regime' will be the refrain next season. The so called team and management of the football side is welded to the approach of this regime, so any fans in attendance will have very little sympathy and understanding and mercy as the chite results continue. And even if this lot walk the division next season (which incidentally will not happen in my view) then we will only be back where we started.
A lot of the emails to fans talk of building bridges but for one it won't happen, and for two it's too late.
A lot of supporters will swing back fully behind the club if this regime goes away.
The only other way it will happen is something like appoint a proper manager (I know who I would choose), give them a huge budget to play with and full autonomy, and make season tickets £50 all round, and to wipe out the club debt at a stroke and complete Sparrows Lane.
Roland is rich enough to do that but he clearly won't.
I know it's unlikely, but it is at least sending the message that I'm not just going to passively renew year on year.
Come August, who knows. But if I had to decide right now then I wouldn't be renewing. I'm not even going to home games now, so it would be a complete waste of money.
Hope that goes some way to explaining the thought process, for me at least.
The end result is the same. The club have an extra season ticket sale and money from that sale. You have a season ticket albeit a slightly more expensive one. We're still in League 1. We've still got RD and KM a the helm etc....
This is not directed at you, but, what happens if nothing changes? Do all those that were waiting for some sort of change not buy one at all, or do they still buy one?
Personally, I think if you're going to buy one, you may aswell buy it now, possibly save a few quid and get the seat you want and allow the club to include your slice of income in their budget for next season. I don't really see any benefit or real point in delaying a purchase?
The Shareholder will have to dip into his own pockets (if only he can reach that far) to cover any potential shortfall. With tickets comprising a greater share of any income at the club (barring sales of players), it is much more likely that an at least vaguely Bolshie fanbase is more likely to have an impact.
Mind you, while I can understand some people renewing early, for their own reasons and with a degree of regret in the light of the CARD campaign (and in the same position most of us would probably do the same), I am mystified why some seem so happy to renew so soon. As far as I am concerned (and I admit that being in Northern Ireland it is not the same issue for me), to willingly purchase a season ticket at this stage, is to miss the point of campaigning against the regime.
B In the main it'll be the same hardy 700 going.
You decide
They are not going to win - and the sooner RD's great analytical mind works that out the better.
With the finance option on the season ticket, when do the club get the money? Up front off the finance company and then the season ticket holder pays the finance company back? Or does the club get it in instalments off the finance company as the season ticket holder pays them?
Personally I think that even if you ARE going to buy one then hang on as late as possible for the reasons given above, even if it means paying a "£25 premium".
If money is that much of an issue then just get your new ticket in one of the cheaper spots and make it back that way.
And yet that is still preferable to many people than the prospect of giving RD their wedge.
Well done those chaps, I admire your determination.