Was there. The sending off was bollox. The injuries and the sending off changed the game
We played well and they were lucky only to be 2 down at half time
Haven't seen the sending off, but let me clarify that part of the relevant law.
If, in the opinion of the referee, (not Joe Bloggs in the stand), an offence has been committed, anywhere on/off the field that the referee considers to be Serious Foul Play, then the player should be sent off.
In trying to clarify the Law, the football authorities, have in my humble opinion, muddied the waters. They now state that any offence such as tripping, holding, striking etc a player in a potential goal scoring position (often defined as "last player" fouls) , MUST be classed as Serious Foul Play or Violent Conduct and MUST be sent off.
That misunderstanding has led to some contributors on here falsely stating that Baer should not have been sent off because the opposing forward was not in a clear goal scoring position.
As I said, I haven't seen the incident, but presumably, in the opinion of the referee, the holding (?) was seen as Serious Foul Play and thus, if so, Baer was rightly sent off.
Hope that clarifies the situation.
Not for me it does not, no. And that despite the fact that I recall you are a qualified referee.
First of all you say you have not seen it. That's a pity because the relevant link to enable you to do so, was posted just a little further up the page.
I fully accept that many of us are pretty hazy about the laws (although that is not surprising when virtually every week you can hear pro footballers on TV saying they no longer understand the offside law).
Having reviewed the video I conclude that Bauer's sending off was correct because, and only because the Brighton player was otherwise one on one with the keeper. Sarr would never have got near him. If you'd take a look, would you agree with that?
When it comes though to serious foul play/violent conduct, perhaps you could help me with another incident which admittedly I have not seen on video either. This is Stephens foul on Cousins which has apparently rendered Cousins injured. According to the commentary team the challenge was extremely late, so much so that only one of them saw it. Terry Smith said that it surely should be a red. And if the foul was such that it renders the player unable to perform, how can it not be violent conduct?
Now the other interesting thing about this incident was that according to Terry Smith, the linesman (sorry, I'm not using the other title, because they rarely "assist") had a good view but did not take action. KF then complained to the 4th official, who spoke to the linesman, who then brought Stroud's attention to it. I thought 4th officials were not mandated to intervene in this way. I believe they certainly should, aided by video technology. But I understood that currently they are not allowed to. Can you help us with this aspect?
Anyway having had it brought to his attention Stroud chose only a yellow. For a foul (typical Stephens, BTW, nasty, mean, I saw them several times in a Charlton shirt) which may keep Cousins out of games. How can that not be a red?
Finally while I understand your frustration as a ref behind your "Joe Bloggs in the stand" comment, it should be remembered that Joe Bloggs pays Mr Stroud and other refs' salary. One of the problems at the moment is we do not get enough explanation from refs about their decisions. If we did, perhaps the mood might be slightly less toxic.
Undone by a quite frankly appalling first goal, how can a player pick the ball up centrally 30 yards out, run in a straight line and prod the ball in the middle of the goal from 8 yards????
We were unlucky with the additional injuries to our thin squad, especially the Lennon one as Sarr looks out of his depth at the moment but I don't think we can say we were unlucky with the Red card or with the Brighton keeper making some great saves, that is just his job, I have never felt lucky every time Henderson has pulled off a goal saving stop, just been grateful to have a decent keeper.
NOT a red card for me. At least two covering defenders and never the last man. It's a foul yes but red card no. For me it is a yellow card.
Based on what we can see on the Sky clip? Surely not. There's only one other defender even in view, that was Sarr, and the guy would have got his shot away before Sarr would have got to him.
I'm no friend of Stroud but we've got to stay rational.
Just took a look at the highlights on CAFC Player, always good to take a second look after the event, take back a little of my criticism of Sarr as at least he tries to put in a tackle on Wilson for the start of the Brighton comeback as did Fox, Bauer bottled that moment IMO, let Wilson just walk past maybe that is why he tried to make amends with the Zamora incident, which is a blatant red, Zamora is through one on one, Sarr is never going to get there to stop that shot on goal.
I have just had a closer look at the red card and what immediately struck me was - Zamora was, just, offside ! It wasn't difficult for the lino because of the proximity of Zamora to Bauer.
Was there. The sending off was bollox. The injuries and the sending off changed the game
We played well and they were lucky only to be 2 down at half time
Haven't seen the sending off, but let me clarify that part of the relevant law.
If, in the opinion of the referee, (not Joe Bloggs in the stand), an offence has been committed, anywhere on/off the field that the referee considers to be Serious Foul Play, then the player should be sent off.
In trying to clarify the Law, the football authorities, have in my humble opinion, muddied the waters. They now state that any offence such as tripping, holding, striking etc a player in a potential goal scoring position (often defined as "last player" fouls) , MUST be classed as Serious Foul Play or Violent Conduct and MUST be sent off.
That misunderstanding has led to some contributors on here falsely stating that Baer should not have been sent off because the opposing forward was not in a clear goal scoring position.
As I said, I haven't seen the incident, but presumably, in the opinion of the referee, the holding (?) was seen as Serious Foul Play and thus, if so, Baer was rightly sent off.
Hope that clarifies the situation.
Peter I don't think this is correct. This isn't serious foul play. This is denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
The law states a player shall be sent off if they are "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."
FIFA guides referees to consider: • the distance between the offence and the goal • the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball • the direction of the play • the location and number of defenders • the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free kick
The only questions re Bauer was (i) whether it was a foul (ii) whether that foul denied an obvious goalscoring opportunity. There really is no question that Bauer committed a foul, and Zamora was clean through otherwise and would have got a shot away - Sarr was nowhere near him and behind him. He also wasn't offside. I don't think there's any question at all it was the correct decision, much as we all like a conspiracy theory.
I have just had a closer look at the red card and what immediately struck me was - Zamora was, just, offside ! It wasn't difficult for the lino because of the proximity of Zamora to Bauer.
No way was Zamora offside. Bauer was holding him from the side, he couldn't have been ahead of him.
Yep, I'm afraid we're clutching at straws with the 'was Zamora offside' query. I just wish that Bauer had trusted Henderson a bit more. Zamora would have got a shot away, but I would back Hendo in a one on one with him.
Was there. The sending off was bollox. The injuries and the sending off changed the game
We played well and they were lucky only to be 2 down at half time
Haven't seen the sending off, but let me clarify that part of the relevant law.
If, in the opinion of the referee, (not Joe Bloggs in the stand), an offence has been committed, anywhere on/off the field that the referee considers to be Serious Foul Play, then the player should be sent off.
In trying to clarify the Law, the football authorities, have in my humble opinion, muddied the waters. They now state that any offence such as tripping, holding, striking etc a player in a potential goal scoring position (often defined as "last player" fouls) , MUST be classed as Serious Foul Play or Violent Conduct and MUST be sent off.
That misunderstanding has led to some contributors on here falsely stating that Baer should not have been sent off because the opposing forward was not in a clear goal scoring position.
As I said, I haven't seen the incident, but presumably, in the opinion of the referee, the holding (?) was seen as Serious Foul Play and thus, if so, Baer was rightly sent off.
Hope that clarifies the situation.
Peter I don't think this is correct. This isn't serious foul play. This is denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
The law states a player shall be sent off if they are "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."
FIFA guides referees to consider: • the distance between the offence and the goal • the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball • the direction of the play • the location and number of defenders • the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free kick
The only questions re Bauer was (i) whether it was a foul (ii) whether that foul denied an obvious goalscoring opportunity. There really is no question that Bauer committed a foul, and Zamora was clean through otherwise and would have got a shot away - Sarr was nowhere near him and behind him. He also wasn't offside. I don't think there's any question at all it was the correct decision, much as we all like a conspiracy theory.
Agree entirely with the aforementioned. The point I was trying to make (perhaps not very clearly) is that because an offence is close to, or in, the penalty area, the referee need not necessarily have it to consider "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity". A case of Serious Foul Play, in the opinion of the referee, is sufficient for a sending off, regardless of how many defenders are between the fouled offender and the goal.
Our performance with and against 10 men is pitiful in recent seasons. Teams seem to be able to make it tough for us wHI,ex we always just roll over and have our bellies tickled. A few years back, I think when Parky was boss, we went a whole season without losing with 10, despite it happening 5 or 6 times, including the 9 man comeback vs Swindon.
Sounds like were a bit unlucky with injuries again, but we're back in the position of 2 or 3 of the wrong players out so we're already drawing on the U12s again or have to put senior players out of position.
Makes the decision not to add one or 2 on loan for Christmas look the bad one we all feared it would be. Any more decent free agents out there line Vaz Te?
Two games ago I was waiting for the Jan window to open for us to get the splinter arsed frenchman back. After yesterdays Prem quality counters, I see the future is pace. THD every week please. Harriott back (exceptional goals today) and get Konza some men's experience. Buy some speedsters in January and at the risk of being a stuck record, Nadir Ciftci is not getting games at Celtic.
Two games ago I was waiting for the Jan window to open for us to get the splinter arsed frenchman back. After yesterdays Prem quality counters, I see the future is pace. THD every week please. Harriott back (exceptional goals today) and get Konza some men's experience. Buy some speedsters in January and at the risk of being a stuck record, Nadir Ciftci is not getting games at Celtic.
Just posted not having read any posts. This was only my second match this season other being Hull City.Total shock at how charlton went at them in first 20 minutes,fast pace heading down the lines and crosses that came over won by charlton players.Have to say Lookman was a man without fear.Could have been 3 or 4 up by halftime.Everything of firsthalf was positive. Secondhalf Brighton had nothing to lose other than attack and first goal looks like it came out of the Ipswich game the week before should never have been left so much room in front of the box.Turning point of game was the sending off which meant the ten men having to work that much harder,we just ran out of steam. If we leave so much space in front of goal we will concede goals no matter what.The games up until the end of the year will tell us all which division we will be playing in next season.
...BUT A NEW DEFENDER WOULD HELP! After Charlton threw away two goal lead at Brighton to lose yesterday, my pic from a relegation game at Middlesbrough in 1999 might draw a faint smile. This pic of Charlton fans with their imaginative banner is in my book 'Charlton Athletic In Pictures 1975-2015' available now for twenty quid plus postage on http://www.youralbumonline.co.uk/sbridge.htm
was gutting to throw away a lead like that, red card or not a 2 goal lead should be protected think for me its simple were just not good enough, walking out of the stadium and you just feel shit, on the train back to Brighton listening to how good they are. cheers charlton
The inexperience at the back, is killing us. Bauer, Sarr and Fox all 22, Lennon and THD 20 and Solly 24 (who is struggling with his own form without worrying about those around him). And if Henderson is out injured again it'll be Pope 23. For all his faults a Johnson type CB character who we signed last January is desperately needed.
Diarra is not the answer as he offers more in midfield but someone in the management team was fully aware that experience was needed at the back by playing him there earlier in the season weren't they!
Get the spine of the team right and fill in the gaps it's not difficult is it?
The inexperience at the back, is killing us. Bauer, Sarr and Fox all 22, Lennon and THD 20 and Solly 24 (who is struggling with his own form without worrying about those around him). And if Henderson is out injured again it'll be Pope 23. For all his faults a Johnson type CB character who we signed last January is desperately needed.
Diarra is not the answer as he offers more in midfield but someone in the management team was fully aware that experience was needed at the back by playing him there earlier in the season weren't they!
Get the spine of the team right and fill in the gaps it's not difficult is it?
Yes, we desperately need leadership at the back. Indeed we desperately need CBs full stop now. The one place where experience matters.
Last season we actually had VERY experienced CBs (TBH, Bikey, Johnson), I've no idea why we've gone the other way now
The inexperience at the back, is killing us. Bauer, Sarr and Fox all 22, Lennon and THD 20 and Solly 24 (who is struggling with his own form without worrying about those around him). And if Henderson is out injured again it'll be Pope 23. For all his faults a Johnson type CB character who we signed last January is desperately needed.
Diarra is not the answer as he offers more in midfield but someone in the management team was fully aware that experience was needed at the back by playing him there earlier in the season weren't they!
Get the spine of the team right and fill in the gaps it's not difficult is it?
Yes, we desperately need leadership at the back. Indeed we desperately need CBs full stop now. The one place where experience matters.
Last season we actually had VERY experienced CBs (TBH, Bikey, Johnson), I've no idea why we've gone the other way now
Comments
First of all you say you have not seen it. That's a pity because the relevant link to enable you to do so, was posted just a little further up the page.
I fully accept that many of us are pretty hazy about the laws (although that is not surprising when virtually every week you can hear pro footballers on TV saying they no longer understand the offside law).
Having reviewed the video I conclude that Bauer's sending off was correct because, and only because the Brighton player was otherwise one on one with the keeper. Sarr would never have got near him. If you'd take a look, would you agree with that?
When it comes though to serious foul play/violent conduct, perhaps you could help me with another incident which admittedly I have not seen on video either. This is Stephens foul on Cousins which has apparently rendered Cousins injured. According to the commentary team the challenge was extremely late, so much so that only one of them saw it. Terry Smith said that it surely should be a red. And if the foul was such that it renders the player unable to perform, how can it not be violent conduct?
Now the other interesting thing about this incident was that according to Terry Smith, the linesman (sorry, I'm not using the other title, because they rarely "assist") had a good view but did not take action. KF then complained to the 4th official, who spoke to the linesman, who then brought Stroud's attention to it. I thought 4th officials were not mandated to intervene in this way. I believe they certainly should, aided by video technology. But I understood that currently they are not allowed to. Can you help us with this aspect?
Anyway having had it brought to his attention Stroud chose only a yellow. For a foul (typical Stephens, BTW, nasty, mean, I saw them several times in a Charlton shirt) which may keep Cousins out of games. How can that not be a red?
Finally while I understand your frustration as a ref behind your "Joe Bloggs in the stand" comment, it should be remembered that Joe Bloggs pays Mr Stroud and other refs' salary. One of the problems at the moment is we do not get enough explanation from refs about their decisions. If we did, perhaps the mood might be slightly less toxic.
I'm no friend of Stroud but we've got to stay rational.
Got screwed by injuries and a sending off but fought and fought to no avail.
Brighton mate said they were lucky not to be 4 down at HT.
RD out. Oh and KM.
The law states a player shall be sent off if they are "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."
FIFA guides referees to consider:
• the distance between the offence and the goal
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
• the direction of the play
• the location and number of defenders
• the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free kick
The only questions re Bauer was (i) whether it was a foul (ii) whether that foul denied an obvious goalscoring opportunity. There really is no question that Bauer committed a foul, and Zamora was clean through otherwise and would have got a shot away - Sarr was nowhere near him and behind him. He also wasn't offside. I don't think there's any question at all it was the correct decision, much as we all like a conspiracy theory.
Sounds like were a bit unlucky with injuries again, but we're back in the position of 2 or 3 of the wrong players out so we're already drawing on the U12s again or have to put senior players out of position.
Makes the decision not to add one or 2 on loan for Christmas look the bad one we all feared it would be. Any more decent free agents out there line Vaz Te?
This was only my second match this season other being Hull City.Total shock at how charlton went at them in first 20 minutes,fast pace heading down the lines and crosses that came over won by charlton players.Have to say Lookman was a man without fear.Could have been 3 or 4 up by halftime.Everything of firsthalf was positive.
Secondhalf Brighton had nothing to lose other than attack and first goal looks like it came out of the Ipswich game the week before should never have been left so much room in front of the box.Turning point of game was the sending off which meant the ten men having to work that much harder,we just ran out of steam.
If we leave so much space in front of goal we will concede goals no matter what.The games up until the end of the year
will tell us all which division we will be playing in next season.
Diarra is not the answer as he offers more in midfield but someone in the management team was fully aware that experience was needed at the back by playing him there earlier in the season weren't they!
Get the spine of the team right and fill in the gaps it's not difficult is it?
Last season we actually had VERY experienced CBs (TBH, Bikey, Johnson), I've no idea why we've gone the other way now
This isn't working.