Keep your politics out of football, we don't need a flag. It destroys one of the beauties of football to be honest, I can be sitting at The Valley with a Guardian reader one side, a Daily Mail reader the other but we have something in common. We can hug, cheer and jump together... no politics.
Don't ruin that beauty.
On the subject of Guardian readers I'm still yet to meet a lifer on any of my away day ventures!
We should let these poor refugees in to the country no hesitation. Looking around all major cities it appears that we let just about everyone else in. Labour do me a favour, attack the tories because they have failed to control net migration now on the attack over refugees. Trouble with taking in refugees is they never return to their country of origin and over the years family members come to the uk that is why we are disappearing up our own arses
Football is sport. IMHO sport and politics should not mix.
This thread has turned into a debate with many positive and negative sides on both sides of the argument. However, the original question was about a banner.
Nonsense;
Jesse Owens Ali The Revolutions that brought down the USSR (particularly in Poland)
Only a fool would ignore the power of sport in bringing about political and social change.
What did Jesse Owens do that was politically driven? What did Ali do that was politically driven?
Yeah they both stuck two fingers up at the establishment but they were not part of any political movements. In fact, both were shunned by there own country.
I think the other option is bring people into Euro camps on a temporary basis. Let them know they will be sent back to their homeland at a point in the future when it is deemed safe. In this sort of scenario, it would be less important where they go (suitable places would have to be found and administration/logistics of such camps could actually bring financial benefits to some regions) but more important the support and commitment is there from all countries. They should be taught the skills needed to rebuild their country. I would imagine that shelter, food, safety and training would be attractive to people displaced due to conflict and their families but less so for economic refugees. Of course there would be a cost and you have to find a suitable place for them and there would need to be strict rules and deportation punishments for those that don't play ball - but in this way more people would be supported and made safe and the current war torn countries would have more of a future when the time comes to rebuild.
I know what the criticisms of this suggestion would be, but I think you have to look at radical solutions to a crisis of this scale.
Of course we should open our doors as rich country. We collectively are letting ourselves down if we cannot have an active responsible compassionate response to what is happening. Refugees are what we could have been had Hitler won the war and we need to put ourselves in their shoes and act now.
Arguments about charity begins at home and what about the homeless are flawed in the extreme in my opinion. We can apportion blame on political parties from previous decades, Thatcher's 'care in the community', Blair's 13 years of doing fuck all about it - blah blah blah. If there were to be political will then solutions would be found, but the cynic in me says the homeless vote don't account for jack shit in the minds of politicians.
I'm not aware of any mass exodus from Syria prior to the current civil war and the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent men, women and children by IS, Assad and the opposition militia. These people were happy to be born, grow, work, raise families, and die in their homeland. They are now running to save their lives and the lives of the families they have raised. Their country is in ruins, their lives at risk - how can anyone turn their back on them and still manage to sleep at night. There may well be 'economic' migrants among them but the vast majority are fellow human beings crying out for help.
The solution may not be to house them permanently in the so-called safe west - but we need to help them now and leave the end possibilities to the future which is likely to involve military action to secure havens in their own lands.
As said before, most of these people are not fleeing persecution they are economic migrants.
I feel sorry for you if you actually believe that. These people are so desperate to flee their homeland they are risking their lives and their children's lives sailing in tiny rubber dingy's on highs seas and what for? To be financially better off? We can only imaging how awful it must be back in Syria . I'm really shocked at how callas the views are on here today ( all albeit from the usual suspects looking for a reaction) but to think these people , who are watching their kids drown are looking to come here for benefits is appalling . We are all human beings and we should help these obviously very desperate people.
Keep your politics out of football, we don't need a flag. It destroys one of the beauties of football to be honest, I can be sitting at The Valley with a Guardian reader one side, a Daily Mail reader the other but we have something in common. We can hug, cheer and jump together... no politics.
Don't ruin that beauty.
On the subject of Guardian readers I'm still yet to meet a lifer on any of my away day ventures!
As said before, most of these people are not fleeing persecution they are economic migrants.
I feel sorry for you if you actually believe that. These people are so desperate to flee their homeland they are risking their lives and their children's lives sailing in tiny rubber dingy's on highs seas and what for? To be financially better off? We can only imaging how awful it must be back in Syria . I'm really shocked at how callas the views are on here today ( all albeit from the usual suspects looking for a reaction) but to think these people , who are watching their kids drown are looking to come here for benefits is appalling . We are all human beings and we should help these obviously very desperate people.
I think all would agree that deaths are sad
The father of the boy drowned today has said this was the 3rd time he had tried to cross to Kos. The first time he was sent back to Turkey. Why not stay there instead of risking he and his childrens life. He was not in Syria any more.... The place that he was fleeing from. He also said that he had a visa turned down for Canada. Why did he not stay in Turkey?
The film on the news last night of the little boy was undeniably sad.
Why were they fleeing the safe haven of Turkey though ?
The little boy was a Syrian Kurd named Aylan Kurdi from the Syrian Kurdish town of Kobane - which you may remember was the site of months long fighting between ISIS and Kurdish fighters that effectively destroyed the town.
You may have also noticed on the news that Turkey has been bombing Kurdish fighters in Syria and Iraq and that in the run up to new elections in Turkey the current government has unilaterally ended a ceasefire with the Kurdish PKK - so I imagine many Kurds do not regard Turkey as either 'safe' or a 'haven'.
Any other questions.....
Posting micks1950's comment from earlier in the thread for anyone who missed it.
Pleased to see a lot of compassion and common sense in this thread. Here in Spain there is quite a lot of focus on the UK's isolationism on this and other issues and a general lack of empathy with people from other countries. I know this isn't the case, but I feel very saddened by how this presents Britain.
Pleased to see a lot of compassion and common sense in this thread. Here in Spain there is quite a lot of focus on the UK's isolationism on this and other issues and a general lack of empathy with people from other countries. I know this isn't the case, but I feel very saddened by how this presents Britain.
I am referring more to perception of political and public attitudes rather than numbers accepted. Cameron's 'swarm' comment and Hammond's about 'marauding' refugees is met with disbelief here. Maybe the Spanish politicians are better at just paying lip service to the matter whilst not acting, but the idea of such inflammatory language being a part of mainstream political discourse makes people from other countries very uncomfortable, especially those who remember living under Facism or Communism.
The Spanish media is also very interested in Nigel Farage and even Katie Hopkins and how their views reflect/inform public opinion!
I am referring more to perception of political and public attitudes rather than numbers accepted. Cameron's 'swarm' comment and Hammond's about 'marauding' refugees is met with disbelief here. Maybe the Spanish politicians are better at just paying lip service to the matter whilst not acting, but the idea of such inflammatory language being a part of mainstream political discourse makes people from other countries very uncomfortable, especially those who remember living under Facism or Communism.
The Spanish media is also very interested in Nigel Farage and even Katie Hopkins and how their views reflect/inform public opinion!
Yeah, I know what you mean. Just surprised that people there would think the UK is awful when their country barely accepts more applications than tiny Malta.
The film on the news last night of the little boy was undeniably sad.
Why were they fleeing the safe haven of Turkey though ?
The little boy was a Syrian Kurd named Aylan Kurdi from the Syrian Kurdish town of Kobane - which you may remember was the site of months long fighting between ISIS and Kurdish fighters that effectively destroyed the town.
You may have also noticed on the news that Turkey has been bombing Kurdish fighters in Syria and Iraq and that in the run up to new elections in Turkey the current government has unilaterally ended a ceasefire with the Kurdish PKK - so I imagine many Kurds do not regard Turkey as either 'safe' or a 'haven'.
I am referring more to perception of political and public attitudes rather than numbers accepted. Cameron's 'swarm' comment and Hammond's about 'marauding' refugees is met with disbelief here. Maybe the Spanish politicians are better at just paying lip service to the matter whilst not acting, but the idea of such inflammatory language being a part of mainstream political discourse makes people from other countries very uncomfortable, especially those who remember living under Facism or Communism.
The Spanish media is also very interested in Nigel Farage and even Katie Hopkins and how their views reflect/inform public opinion!
Yeah, I know what you mean. Just surprised that people there would think the UK is awful when their country barely accepts more applications than tiny Malta.
The language is bleak, true.
The thing with Spain and asylum applications being processed though is that anything involving paperwork and beauracracy here is abysmal. Basically anyone who arrives is taken to a centre or church and looked after. The regional governments recently decided to continue a scheme where all illegal immigrants, even those without papers, have immediate access to the health care system on humanitarian grounds. There is a strong sense of moral duty here, though perhaps it is not logically or logistically thought through. Possible reasons? Still a very religious country and also a declining population, unlike the UK.
If you're willing to take a refugee, you should also be willing to take in a homeless person who could be dead this time next year unless you intervene. And that's something that you can actually do today. It's not hard, just find a homeless person and ask if they want to live with you. Otherwise don't claim you'd bring a refugee in under your roof.
The mother in law did exactly that a few years ago. The homeless men were good as gold for 2 days and then did a flit with all her jewellery. If you want to offer your room to a complete stranger good luck but I think she got off pretty lightly.
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Not really. You can see with the amount of people that have left London over the last 30 years due to high migration here.
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
So the Gulf states, which are closer to home and already hold fellow lovable, peaceful Muslims are pricing desperate, starving, refugees out of entering their countries and people are pointing the finger at Britain to do more....whilst they continue to treat southeast Asian migrant workers like filth??? Interesting.
So the Gulf states, which are closer to home and already hold fellow lovable, peaceful Muslims are pricing desperate, starving, refugees out of entering their countries and people are pointing the finger at Britain to do more....whilst they continue to treat southeast Asian migrant workers like filth??? Interesting.
Spot on Gary. Im sure if the countries of Europe charged them to come in they would still try and sneak in. Why dont they try that in those countries. Also these are the same that would all defend there Muslim brothers in the name of religion but are not offering help?
Comments
we would have no worries,
and be happy.
Yeah they both stuck two fingers up at the establishment but they were not part of any political movements. In fact, both were shunned by there own country.
I know what the criticisms of this suggestion would be, but I think you have to look at radical solutions to a crisis of this scale.
I'm not aware of any mass exodus from Syria prior to the current civil war and the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent men, women and children by IS, Assad and the opposition militia. These people were happy to be born, grow, work, raise families, and die in their homeland. They are now running to save their lives and the lives of the families they have raised. Their country is in ruins, their lives at risk - how can anyone turn their back on them and still manage to sleep at night. There may well be 'economic' migrants among them but the vast majority are fellow human beings crying out for help.
The solution may not be to house them permanently in the so-called safe west - but we need to help them now and leave the end possibilities to the future which is likely to involve military action to secure havens in their own lands.
We can only imaging how awful it must be back in Syria .
I'm really shocked at how callas the views are on here today ( all albeit from the usual suspects looking for a reaction) but to think these people , who are watching their kids drown are looking to come here for benefits is appalling .
We are all human beings and we should help these obviously very desperate people.
The father of the boy drowned today has said this was the 3rd time he had tried to cross to Kos. The first time he was sent back to Turkey. Why not stay there instead of risking he and his childrens life. He was not in Syria any more.... The place that he was fleeing from. He also said that he had a visa turned down for Canada. Why did he not stay in Turkey?
The Spanish media is also very interested in Nigel Farage and even Katie Hopkins and how their views reflect/inform public opinion!
The language is bleak, true.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
First paragraph sums it up well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11842760/Prepare-yourselves-The-Great-Migration-will-be-with-us-for-decades.html