"Every country should have the rite to democracy" and so said Tony Blair........and who,incidentally has democratically elected himself to most of the boards running the oil companies in these New Democratic states.
Scotland is a left wing country and the left tend to be the strongest advocates of diversity.
Win Win I reckon.
My post above is admittedly a little mischievous but to make a serious point England was the most densely populated country after Netherlands in Europe in 2012 according to Eurostat so if this is to be dealt with at an EU level other countries (France for instance) should take more of the burden.
What i think is sad is that thousands of children die in puddles, in fear and alone everyday in all corners of the world. Unscrupulous, filthy media outlets throw pictures out for their own agenda. They chose what you see and they make huge amounts of money from pain, torture and the death.
Take a moment and think about where you are, and how lucky you are.
Football is sport. IMHO sport and politics should not mix.
This thread has turned into a debate with many positive and negative sides on both sides of the argument. However, the original question was about a banner.
Nonsense;
Jesse Owens Ali The Revolutions that brought down the USSR (particularly in Poland)
Only a fool would ignore the power of sport in bringing about political and social change.
See this is why so many people struggle to get on board with ideas of what the left come up with. Whilst they are usually kind-hearted and caring ideas, the way they are put across is often patronizing (eg - calling someone a "fool" because they have a different opinion).
I realized this morning with Facebook that so many people are putting their left wing opinions across in a way that is purely to mock right wing stereotypes ("All these immigrants coming over here, doing good things for our country").
Does my head in.
Exactly. I have no problems with immigration and something does have to be done. But when I go to a sporting event it is to watch the event and not read political messages or see it getting hijacked by political activists.
Now I know what that blue thing is !!! my next question is:
How can we take more when we cant even find homes for the 9000 plus ex service men that are currently homeless?
Last year around 20000 plus pensioners died as they could not afford to heat there homes, no money spare for them to live.
Taken from Shelter : 90,000 children in Britain – the equivalent of three in every school – will spend this Christmas homeless, government figures show. With their helpline already stretched to breaking point, Shelter are launching an emergency appeal in response.
While I feel for every single person caught up in conflict around the world, how can we keep taking people when we cant look after the people we have?
Wasn't this thread about bringing a banner to a football match? Jeez.
Everyone has a democratic right to air their views. If you'd like to make a banner to welcome refugees, you go for it, good for you. If you don't want to because you don't agree with it, then don't.
It may be true that our population was less in the 30's, but only recently has the population of London got back to London's population in the Thirties.
The question of privately owned property (and that is a can of worms anyway) being left unoccupied is also something that will climb the agenda.
Central London is being scooped clean of ordinary people, where the mega rich buy property as an investment and let them lie fallow, or if they live here they have private security, private health, private schools...private roads gated off if they can, and those who are obliged to serve the mega rich live who knows where.
The notion that privately owned property can be acquired by government is established in compulsory purchase orders, often used when an airport is being extended, or a motorway built, or a railway line.
Many on here are very uncomfortable with incomers arriving in 'their' country, but sometimes I think well 'who's country'? This meditation has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with finite and precious world resources often gained by force, and shielded by force too. We live in a world of human nature, and as has been said, nature is often red in tooth and claw.
I am a little surprised that free marketeers (possibly extreme Conservatives) don't advocate opening all world borders and letting the market in safety and security 'find it's own natural level'.
The media brings us daily horror, and popicon has highlighted it well, suffering porn if you like, just as the media also relishes war porn too, and often it all feels too much to deal with.
There are solutions, but they are long term, hard miles, with sacrifices made by all...some much more than others, and the solutions might be attainable. However human nature being what it is I am not holding out any hope at all that things will get any better sadly, and like many I search for escape from the travails of the planet into football or Whisky or whatever. I micro focus, because macro focus seems so difficult to do.
I think if my way life and that of future generations where under such a severe threat by these psychotic fundamentalists, I might decide to stand and fight to protect for what I believed in rather than succumb to the whims of some mad mullah. Just like we did against the Nazis.
Seems to me to be a hell of a lot of fit healthy young men who have decided it's just not worth fighting for what you believe in and have decided to let their country fall into the hands of despots. Shame really, as I suspect 20/30,000 fighting side by side, would soon put a dramatic halt to the progress of ISIS.
I hope it's not our armed forces, that eventually have to fight for their 'freedom'
I think if my way life and that of future generations where under such a severe threat by these psychotic fundamentalists, I might decide to stand and fight to protect for what I believed in rather than succumb to the whims of some mad mullah. Just like we did against the Nazis.
Seems to me to be a hell of a lot of fit healthy young men who have decided it's just not worth fighting for what you believe in and have decided to let their country fall into the hands of despots. Shame really, as I suspect 20/30,000 fighting side by side, would soon put a dramatic halt to the progress of ISIS.
I hope it's not our armed forces, that eventually have to fight for their 'freedom'
Fortunately for you it isn't your way of life or your head probably would no longer be attached to your body.
I think if my way life and that of future generations where under such a severe threat by these psychotic fundamentalists, I might decide to stand and fight to protect for what I believed in rather than succumb to the whims of some mad mullah. Just like we did against the Nazis.
Seems to me to be a hell of a lot of fit healthy young men who have decided it's just not worth fighting for what you believe in and have decided to let their country fall into the hands of despots. Shame really, as I suspect 20/30,000 fighting side by side, would soon put a dramatic halt to the progress of ISIS.
I hope it's not our armed forces, that eventually have to fight for their 'freedom'
Fortunately for you it isn't your way of life or your head probably would no longer be attached to your body.
Maybe.
But I take a few of the feckers down with me.
And my son would be behind me doing the same thing.
And my step son behind him.
How on earth do you think we got to the state of a Sovereign Democracy in this Country, whereby so many foreign nationals want to come and live? It wasn't by winning a cricket match on the village green.
This is a very difficult subject, and one I have sympathy with Cameron over. This is a humanitarian crisis and I have no time for the little Englander approach where there is no empathy for the plight of these fellow human beings. But unless there is unlimited immigration, I can’t see how letting significant numbers in will result in anything other than more and more people trying to get in which will only make things worse. However, we can’t dissolve ourselves of blame. Foreign policy mistakes over many years have contributed to the mess and we have a responsibility to try to put them right. The problem with the mistakes is that nobody played through the consequences and that is exactly what has to be done now. If we do this what is the likely effect in 3 months, 6 months, a year, 6 years etc…Trying to compete on who is the most humanitarian country because we have seen some harrowing pictures of dead children won’t help. Children have been dying for years with the west trying to fob the problems off onto each other!
For me the big problem is ISIS. The conditions for their growth and power were created by the west and we have reached a point where we have to sort it out. ISIS won’t go away and they will get more and more dangerous as they act illogically and are capable of anything. The bigger they become the more likely they will have the ability to do some major damage to us. So, there is an interest for the west in joining together (good and bad – USA, Russia, Europe China…..) and wipe them from the map irrespective of the plight of the poor souls we see trying to escape. Then we have to support the persecuted people to rebuild their lives and countries. To me that is the only solution and I was strongly against the war and previous interventions, but now I think there isn’t another answer.
Doubt you would get much of a chance to. They've got the guns and tanks. Of course many have been fighting them, but when they lose the battles and ISIS take over their towns and villages what do they do, where do they go? Do they just give up and die and leave their families to fend for themselves? I suppose they would make it easier for us if they did. Pretty selfish of them really.
Keep your politics out of football, we don't need a flag. It destroys one of the beauties of football to be honest, I can be sitting at The Valley with a Guardian reader one side, a Daily Mail reader the other but we have something in common. We can hug, cheer and jump together... no politics.
What a wonderful utopian world some of you live in. Please don't complain in years to come/now when the Ambulance doesn't get to you or there's no beds. Schools, housing, etc. Maybe Scotland who have the same population as Yorkshire, have the Infrastructure and room to cope. England can't cope. The population is already about 10 million too high. Watch the programes on India. If you want to see people herded together like Sheep. Without space there is no quality of life.
that's why I believe there needs to be future repatriation
Non starter; it would be said now but when the time comes it would never be enforceable sadly. Its frustrating because future repatriation combined with making the most of sparsely populated areas could give a decent solution; and provide long term benefits for both us and their country of origin whilst providing them with a place of safety.
Unfortunately, once they arrive they are here to stay. This combined with the very real need to keep them in the system and keep tabs on them, as well as decide who gets entry and who doesn't.. well, it would be unfeasibly expensive. This is why I personally think we need to tighten our borders and be proactively selecting special/genuine cases and welcoming them in.. that too costs money.
I think some people are sadly overestimating our infrastructure and public services too. The Met are looking at axing 6000 officers in the coming years and having a major restructuring, a very major one which will see changes for all of us who rely on them. LAS are relying on the Police to do Triage and transportation for certain things from what I can gather, as they simply can't respond to calls at the moment. Our rail infrastructure is piss poor. Our schools are penny pinching left right and center. Our social services are at breaking point, and these guys will be needed heavily if we open the doors. Sadly, we cannot cope.
I'd also be concerned about where potential newcomers would settle; do we introduce further segregation and social issues in the likes of Bradford, Tower Hamlets and Luton? That's where some will settle because it will be in communities they can recognise and understand. This means, to be blunt, we will have very damaged, angry and vulnerable individuals who have seen horrific things... in areas where radicalisation has been seen to occur.
I just don't think it's feasible and it is horrible to say, but we would need a lot more money and better public services and infrastructure - whilst also having a clear plan to not only help these individuals but to enable greater security and responses to inevitable crime increases.
How the feck do these refugees get here if they havnt passed through safe countries first ? Dr Who`s TARDIS ? of course they have. Now apparently that rule of asylum seekers taking asylum in the first safe country is to be thrown out.
when is enough,enough ? 330,00 (90% to England) a year come here legitimately. but some one wants to put a banner up saying "refugees welcome ". its not "heart warming its deluded bollox.
Try puting up a banner saying "no immigration" or "no asylum seekers" and see how many mins it is before Plod nick you.
Doubt you would get much of a chance to. They've got the guns and tanks. Of course many have been fighting them, but when they lose the battles and ISIS take over their towns and villages what do they do, where do they go? Do they just give up and die and leave their families to fend for themselves? I suppose they would make it easier for us if they did. Pretty selfish of them really.
So you just run away then?
Just the sort of guy I'd love in 'the trenches' next to me.
Is there anything you'd be prepared to fight and die for or would you just meekly roll over and have your tummy tickled.
Keep your politics out of football, we don't need a flag. It destroys one of the beauties of football to be honest, I can be sitting at The Valley with a Guardian reader one side, a Daily Mail reader the other but we have something in common. We can hug, cheer and jump together... no politics.
Don't ruin that beauty.
When I ordered my season ticket, I requested that I be sat around no Guardian readers.
To those who say they should stay in the safe haven they first entered then what would we expect our EU partners to do were 800,000 arriving first on our shores?
As I understand it Germany and other EU countries who are having to deal with this huge refugee influx are asking for our help.
Keep your politics out of football, we don't need a flag. It destroys one of the beauties of football to be honest, I can be sitting at The Valley with a Guardian reader one side, a Daily Mail reader the other but we have something in common. We can hug, cheer and jump together... no politics.
Don't ruin that beauty.
On the subject of Guardian readers I'm still yet to meet a lifer on any of my away day ventures!
Comments
:-)
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc134_c/index.html
Scotland is a left wing country and the left tend to be the strongest advocates of diversity.
Win Win I reckon.
My post above is admittedly a little mischievous but to make a serious point England was the most densely populated country after Netherlands in Europe in 2012 according to Eurostat so if this is to be dealt with at an EU level other countries (France for instance) should take more of the burden.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.4
Take a moment and think about where you are, and how lucky you are.
Why were they fleeing the safe haven of Turkey though ?
kentonline.co.uk/weald/news/another-centre-for-young-asylum-42638/
How can we take more when we cant even find homes for the 9000 plus ex service men that are currently homeless?
Last year around 20000 plus pensioners died as they could not afford to heat there homes, no money spare for them to live.
Taken from Shelter : 90,000 children in Britain – the equivalent of three in every school – will spend this Christmas homeless, government figures show. With their helpline already stretched to breaking point, Shelter are launching an emergency appeal in response.
While I feel for every single person caught up in conflict around the world, how can we keep taking people when we cant look after the people we have?
0 refugees taken.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31082941
The question of privately owned property (and that is a can of worms anyway) being left unoccupied is also something that will climb the agenda.
Central London is being scooped clean of ordinary people, where the mega rich buy property as an investment and let them lie fallow, or if they live here they have private security, private health, private schools...private roads gated off if they can, and those who are obliged to serve the mega rich live who knows where.
The notion that privately owned property can be acquired by government is established in compulsory purchase orders, often used when an airport is being extended, or a motorway built, or a railway line.
Many on here are very uncomfortable with incomers arriving in 'their' country, but sometimes I think well 'who's country'? This meditation has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with finite and precious world resources often gained by force, and shielded by force too. We live in a world of human nature, and as has been said, nature is often red in tooth and claw.
I am a little surprised that free marketeers (possibly extreme Conservatives) don't advocate opening all world borders and letting the market in safety and security 'find it's own natural level'.
The media brings us daily horror, and popicon has highlighted it well, suffering porn if you like, just as the media also relishes war porn too, and often it all feels too much to deal with.
There are solutions, but they are long term, hard miles, with sacrifices made by all...some much more than others, and the solutions might be attainable.
However human nature being what it is I am not holding out any hope at all that things will get any better sadly, and like many I search for escape from the travails of the planet into football or Whisky or whatever. I micro focus, because macro focus seems so difficult to do.
Seems to me to be a hell of a lot of fit healthy young men who have decided it's just not worth fighting for what you believe in and have decided to let their country fall into the hands of despots. Shame really, as I suspect 20/30,000 fighting side by side, would soon put a dramatic halt to the progress of ISIS.
I hope it's not our armed forces, that eventually have to fight for their 'freedom'
But I take a few of the feckers down with me.
And my son would be behind me doing the same thing.
And my step son behind him.
How on earth do you think we got to the state of a Sovereign Democracy in this Country, whereby so many foreign nationals want to come and live? It wasn't by winning a cricket match on the village green.
Don't ruin that beauty. Non starter; it would be said now but when the time comes it would never be enforceable sadly. Its frustrating because future repatriation combined with making the most of sparsely populated areas could give a decent solution; and provide long term benefits for both us and their country of origin whilst providing them with a place of safety.
Unfortunately, once they arrive they are here to stay. This combined with the very real need to keep them in the system and keep tabs on them, as well as decide who gets entry and who doesn't.. well, it would be unfeasibly expensive. This is why I personally think we need to tighten our borders and be proactively selecting special/genuine cases and welcoming them in.. that too costs money.
I think some people are sadly overestimating our infrastructure and public services too. The Met are looking at axing 6000 officers in the coming years and having a major restructuring, a very major one which will see changes for all of us who rely on them. LAS are relying on the Police to do Triage and transportation for certain things from what I can gather, as they simply can't respond to calls at the moment. Our rail infrastructure is piss poor. Our schools are penny pinching left right and center. Our social services are at breaking point, and these guys will be needed heavily if we open the doors. Sadly, we cannot cope.
I'd also be concerned about where potential newcomers would settle; do we introduce further segregation and social issues in the likes of Bradford, Tower Hamlets and Luton? That's where some will settle because it will be in communities they can recognise and understand. This means, to be blunt, we will have very damaged, angry and vulnerable individuals who have seen horrific things... in areas where radicalisation has been seen to occur.
I just don't think it's feasible and it is horrible to say, but we would need a lot more money and better public services and infrastructure - whilst also having a clear plan to not only help these individuals but to enable greater security and responses to inevitable crime increases.
Now apparently that rule of asylum seekers taking asylum in the first safe country is to be thrown out.
when is enough,enough ? 330,00 (90% to England) a year come here legitimately. but some one wants to put a banner up saying "refugees welcome ".
its not "heart warming its deluded bollox.
Try puting up a banner saying "no immigration" or "no asylum seekers" and see how many mins it is before Plod nick you.
Just the sort of guy I'd love in 'the trenches' next to me.
Is there anything you'd be prepared to fight and die for or would you just meekly roll over and have your tummy tickled.
Looking at this map helps explain why Syrian refugees are heading north, the east it appears is controlled by ISIS/ISIL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War
East stand it is.
http://www.fcbayern.de/en/news/news/2015/press-release-030915-fcbayern-emergency-aid-for-refugees-030915.php
As I understand it Germany and other EU countries who are having to deal with this huge refugee influx are asking for our help.