Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Not really. You can see with the amount of people that have left London over the last 30 years due to high migration here.
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
Is that over the same last 30 years that London has become the financial, cultural & political centre of the world ? Immigration couldn't have been better for my city.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were stuck with a property in negative equity in good old Gravesend, solely down to immigration
**seeing as the thread has moved away from refugees and onto immigration
Gravesend couldn't be less in London, but I wouldn't expect people that have been gone for so long to remember. How's immigration working out for you ?
I never said Gravesend was in London, but anyway,
Immigration has worked for me very well (and also saved a few scummy migrants getting anymore slaps for sitting on my van bonnet), but I ain't driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in my state sponsered motor am I! I still get the odd negative comment from the odd frenchmen though, but I don't get offended I accepted that when i moved here, I was coming into their country; so their rules
I don't think many Syrian refugees are "driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in their state sponsored motors" but thanks for your utterly mental contribution.
If I've gotta read your oppinions you'll have to suffer reading mine.
I already made the distinction between dirty theiving scummy migrants and refugees (I don't fancy arguing the toss over that after the photos I've seen today of a dead 3 year, that's an argument for another day IMO)
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Not really. You can see with the amount of people that have left London over the last 30 years due to high migration here.
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
Is that over the same last 30 years that London has become the financial, cultural & political centre of the world ? Immigration couldn't have been better for my city.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were stuck with a property in negative equity in good old Gravesend, solely down to immigration
**seeing as the thread has moved away from refugees and onto immigration
Gravesend couldn't be less in London, but I wouldn't expect people that have been gone for so long to remember. How's immigration working out for you ?
I never said Gravesend was in London, but anyway,
Immigration has worked for me very well (and also saved a few scummy migrants getting anymore slaps for sitting on my van bonnet), but I ain't driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in my state sponsered motor am I! I still get the odd negative comment from the odd frenchmen though, but I don't get offended I accepted that when i moved here, I was coming into their country; so their rules
Being smelly, prone to surrender and growing silly moustaches ?
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Not really. You can see with the amount of people that have left London over the last 30 years due to high migration here.
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
Is that over the same last 30 years that London has become the financial, cultural & political centre of the world ? Immigration couldn't have been better for my city.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were stuck with a property in negative equity in good old Gravesend, solely down to immigration
**seeing as the thread has moved away from refugees and onto immigration
Gravesend couldn't be less in London, but I wouldn't expect people that have been gone for so long to remember. How's immigration working out for you ?
I never said Gravesend was in London, but anyway,
Immigration has worked for me very well (and also saved a few scummy migrants getting anymore slaps for sitting on my van bonnet), but I ain't driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in my state sponsered motor am I! I still get the odd negative comment from the odd frenchmen though, but I don't get offended I accepted that when i moved here, I was coming into their country; so their rules
I don't think many Syrian refugees are "driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in their state sponsored motors" but thanks for your utterly mental contribution.
If I've gotta read your fuckin oppinions you'll have to suffer reading mine.
I already made the distinction between dirty theiving scummy migrants and refugees (I don't fancy arguing the toss over that after the photos I've seen today of a dead 3 year, that's an argument for another day IMO)
The child who died was put on a boat by his father !,suddenly it's David Cameron and the Uk,s fault ! The media shows you the women and children, we have all seen the pictures, 98 percent of those in the boats are males in between 18 -30 years old .
We agree to take 10,000 and get 9,800 young males. Is that what you want me to sign up for !
Then the answer is NO !
The mother died too on that boat . Get your facts right.
So your point is ! Would you put your wife and kids on a bloody lilo to cross the sea ! I fucking wouldn't !
Is there a prize for Charlton Lifes most ignorant member ?
Possibly - but it's not exactly a shortlist of finalists.
There is an issue that whether economic migrants or not, when some have made it so far they then want to go to the country the perceive offers them the best future. I'd probably do the same. When that country opens it arms, only more will follow though. Sad but unfortuantely true. Europe needs a co-ordinated response. We need to stop the deaths and work to the migrants ultimately having a future in their own countries. The humane thing is to find a solution, not react to immotive images, no matter how upsetting of compelling and it is not to see who can provide the best token humanitarinaism. Great example on this thread of Spain, who do less than us but view us with contempt. Logic rather than emotion has to be applied to find the solution, but the humanitarian aspect is that we have to prevent people dying and give them futures that are worth having.
We need to make Syria and Iraq safe. The problem is, ISIS has enemies - they are largely Iran, Palestine, Russia, Kurds and Shiite muslims - in the most part our enemies. They also have friends - Sunni Muslims in Saudi Arabia and Qatar for example - largely our friends. We think ISIS hate us more than anything, but they hate the Shiite muslims more. And the Russians! But they still hate us as our ways disgust them and they ultimately want to take over the world. But we are down the list believe it or not. The solution has to be around the saying, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. If the will was really there, America could make alliances that would see the end of ISIS.
The problem is, whilst ISIS has attacked western citizens, we are not currently their prime target. A lot of what they do carries a warning for us not to interfere. But if we think this won't change we don't understand them and their twisted motives. They just have higher priorities at the moment and we have to act before we rise up their list as they are capable of anything and there is nothing more dangerous than that. So we have to develop the will to work with our enemies to defeat them and defeat them in a horrible way - so they are totally destroyed. They are not wired to surrender unfortuantely. This is not pleasant but we could leave most of the horrible bits to the Iranians and the Russians, but the result of this would be that the migrants can return and rebuild their countries in safety. they might not want to, but they can. Then we nee dto let them get on with it, no matter how badly they go about it. Oil or no oil.
So a very messy solution, but sometimes there are not clean ones. I don't like what I am writing - but something has been created that threatens us all here. The migrants is the big story now, but it is just one of the early acts in this story. We were too quick to intervene when countries posed no real threat, now they do we hold off.
I see that Ms Sturgen is blaming David Cameron and UK Government why the Scots cannot offer refugees homes in Scotland. Nothing like scoring political points.
I know all the coverage on media is about ISIS, but please bear in mind that the other side, the "enemy of my enemy" is also bad. Bashar Al Assad has used chemical weapons against his own people, and heavily bombed cities. I followed part of a Twitter Q&A last night carried out with a young Syrian man about to cross from Turkey to the EU. He had spent time in ISIS jails, but appeared to be clear that he was fleeing Bashar Al Assad first, and fleeing ISIS etc second. I think he also mentioned the airstrikes.
It was also mentioned on this thread the amount of money needed to get on one of these boats. I think he quoted $1500, all of which he had had to borrow.
The journey across north Africa sounds even worse - have a look for @PatrickKingsley on Twitter for details if you like.
Yes, it would be great to end the Syrian Civil War, but that is a very long-term solution. It is also possible to do both - work to put pressure on Gulf states, try to end the Syrian Civil War, and take some refugees in if they flee.
Why doesnt the government offer to set up a fund to support taking in more, and those that support it pay an additional amount of tax to be paid solely into that account and assist with the cost of accepting more immigrants
And if you don't support it you don't contribute, but they agree that only the money in that pot can be spent supporting the cause including education, welfare, medical the whole shabang, let's see how many we can allow in based on that figure, I reckon a few hundred max, if the 380k who signed that petition all gave an extra pound a month to the pot
Saying "if you support the UK taking its fair share of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan refugees why don't you let them live in your house" is as ridiculous as saying if you believe in an NHS let them operate on your sofa.
Not really. You can see with the amount of people that have left London over the last 30 years due to high migration here.
More of the Arab countries should take them in. They mostly share the same way of life.
There is a story about people not wanting to get on a train in Hungary as it was taking them to a Refugee camp, again why not go to the safe refugee camp?
Is that over the same last 30 years that London has become the financial, cultural & political centre of the world ? Immigration couldn't have been better for my city.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were stuck with a property in negative equity in good old Gravesend, solely down to immigration
**seeing as the thread has moved away from refugees and onto immigration
Gravesend couldn't be less in London, but I wouldn't expect people that have been gone for so long to remember. How's immigration working out for you ?
I never said Gravesend was in London, but anyway,
Immigration has worked for me very well (and also saved a few scummy migrants getting anymore slaps for sitting on my van bonnet), but I ain't driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in my state sponsered motor am I! I still get the odd negative comment from the odd frenchmen though, but I don't get offended I accepted that when i moved here, I was coming into their country; so their rules
I don't think many Syrian refugees are "driving round wolf whistling the local 12 year old girls in their state sponsored motors" but thanks for your utterly mental contribution.
If I've gotta read your fuckin oppinions you'll have to suffer reading mine.
I already made the distinction between dirty theiving scummy migrants and refugees (I don't fancy arguing the toss over that after the photos I've seen today of a dead 3 year, that's an argument for another day IMO)
I read your opinions, the irony was brilliant,
Cor, you got me there pal.
How can I have the oppinion that the UK shouldn't allow in hundreds, if not thousands, of sex slave trafficking gypsies and flooding certain areas with them, while being an immigrant myself?
Why doesnt the government offer to set up a fund to support taking in more, and those that support it pay an additional amount of tax to be paid solely into that account and assist with the cost of accepting more immigrants
And if you don't support it you don't contribute, but they agree that only the money in that pot can be spent supporting the cause including education, welfare, medical the whole shabang, let's see how many we can allow in based on that figure, I reckon a few hundred max, if the 380k who signed that petition all gave an extra pound a month to the pot
I'd imagine, and I'm just guessing here, that selective tax directives are the antithesis of the tax system. Nice idea though buddy.
I know all the coverage on media is about ISIS, but please bear in mind that the other side, the "enemy of my enemy" is also bad. Bashar Al Assad has used chemical weapons against his own people, and heavily bombed cities. I followed part of a Twitter Q&A last night carried out with a young Syrian man about to cross from Turkey to the EU. He had spent time in ISIS jails, but appeared to be clear that he was fleeing Bashar Al Assad first, and fleeing ISIS etc second. I think he also mentioned the airstrikes.
It was also mentioned on this thread the amount of money needed to get on one of these boats. I think he quoted $1500, all of which he had had to borrow.
The journey across north Africa sounds even worse - have a look for @PatrickKingsley on Twitter for details if you like.
Yes, it would be great to end the Syrian Civil War, but that is a very long-term solution. It is also possible to do both - work to put pressure on Gulf states, try to end the Syrian Civil War, and take some refugees in if they flee.
Assad is terrible as was Hussain. But in that region, sometimes these despots keep the relative peace when for example Sunni and Shiite muslims despise each other as strongly as it is posible to despise. It is sad, but true.
Why doesnt the government offer to set up a fund to support taking in more, and those that support it pay an additional amount of tax to be paid solely into that account and assist with the cost of accepting more immigrants
And if you don't support it you don't contribute, but they agree that only the money in that pot can be spent supporting the cause including education, welfare, medical the whole shabang, let's see how many we can allow in based on that figure, I reckon a few hundred max, if the 380k who signed that petition all gave an extra pound a month to the pot
I never thought I would say this but you have a really good idea there. Where do I sign?
Personally I think we can, and should take more refugee's in, if the shoe was on the other foot and I had to get my family to safety and a place we can live, I would move heaven and Earth to ensure I could do so, I would hope people out there will open their door and help me in my time of need.
Does it need to be demonstrated at football that I want to help people come to Britain? No, what good is it going to do apart from people saying "aaahh isn't that nice"? Look at social media and the petitions etc they are what can and will make a difference.
I caught Channel 4 news earlier and there was obviously a lot of focus on the situation. Jon Snow was asking random people outside Liverpool Street Station on their opinion and if we should let more refugee's in. A majority said yes, a couple of people said no and then there was a young couple. They said something along the lines of 'its their problems they should try and sort it, it's not down to us', Snow then asked where they were both from and they were Romanian and Polish. Obviously put in there to stir a reaction.
But a lot of those same people would have been saying no immigration during the election! It is good to see it in many ways but it is an emotional response to harrowing pictures of a poor young lad we have seen dead on a beach. If we took in 10,000 would that stop th esame numbers dying or maybe it would encourage more to try and more will die. We have created this mess through a lack of undertsanding and planning and we have a duty to those poor people to solve it, but we have to solve it, not piss in the ocean.
This is true, but ISIS saw the opportunity and William Hague wanted us to help them fight Assad, for those with short memories/ A lot of people who know the region warned of the danger at the time.
yes he did - it was just they were referred to as the rebels and seen as a good thing at that time. They were fighting with other groups admittedly, but had they defeated Assad, they would have turned on those groups pretty smartish.
yes he did - it was just they were referred to as the rebels and seen as a good thing at that time. They were fighting with other groups admittedly, but had they defeated Assad, they would have turned on those groups pretty smartish.
ISIS was part of those fighting Assad - of course those fighting Assad were doing for right reasons, but ISIS was fighting with them and they were doing so with a different agenda. Call it opportunism, but this was seen and predicted at the time.
Any idea on how much per person per year it costs to support an immigrant to reside in the UK with all the basic needs met, housing, benefits to live, education, health care etc,
It was written at the time and was very perceptive. The message it is trying to give, which we never learn from is that interfereing in affairs of that region never ends well. I just found that article with a very quick search from google with the words Hague, Syria and 2013 - it was a widely held view at the time that arming the rebels was not a great thing to do. Not because Assad isn't vile but because the implications were not thought through. It isn't through the benefit of hindsight as I and many others had the same view at the time.
The vacuum that follows the war as in Iraq, invites the opportunistic fundamentalists that are even worse than what preceeded.
Why are these refugees not following the rules imposed by the EU by declaring refugee status in the first country they enter?
Also, now that they are out of harms way in Syria and safely in Hungary, why not stay there? You were fleeing for safety, you're safe... Why the need to proceed onto Germany, the UK etc? Oh I remember, money. Every single thing in this world comes back down to money or lack there of
Why not go to these refugee camps that Hungary has setup, you're safe at least, correct? But no, they don't want they, they start a skirmish with officers and start chanting Germany, Germany...
The Free Syrian Army (main member of the National Coalition etc) are fighting Assad.
That does not mean that they are one and the same, nor that they were fighting together. Rod Liddle's article contains very little information.
Isn't he a WHam supporter?
In no way intending to be flippant but with the current unrest re the future use of the Olympic Stadium, maybe the solution would be to turn it into a refugee centre to house, even temporarily, those seeking a place of safety.
Comments
I already made the distinction between dirty theiving scummy migrants and refugees (I don't fancy arguing the toss over that after the photos I've seen today of a dead 3 year, that's an argument for another day IMO)
We need to make Syria and Iraq safe. The problem is, ISIS has enemies - they are largely Iran, Palestine, Russia, Kurds and Shiite muslims - in the most part our enemies. They also have friends - Sunni Muslims in Saudi Arabia and Qatar for example - largely our friends. We think ISIS hate us more than anything, but they hate the Shiite muslims more. And the Russians! But they still hate us as our ways disgust them and they ultimately want to take over the world. But we are down the list believe it or not. The solution has to be around the saying, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. If the will was really there, America could make alliances that would see the end of ISIS.
The problem is, whilst ISIS has attacked western citizens, we are not currently their prime target. A lot of what they do carries a warning for us not to interfere. But if we think this won't change we don't understand them and their twisted motives. They just have higher priorities at the moment and we have to act before we rise up their list as they are capable of anything and there is nothing more dangerous than that. So we have to develop the will to work with our enemies to defeat them and defeat them in a horrible way - so they are totally destroyed. They are not wired to surrender unfortuantely. This is not pleasant but we could leave most of the horrible bits to the Iranians and the Russians, but the result of this would be that the migrants can return and rebuild their countries in safety. they might not want to, but they can. Then we nee dto let them get on with it, no matter how badly they go about it. Oil or no oil.
So a very messy solution, but sometimes there are not clean ones. I don't like what I am writing - but something has been created that threatens us all here. The migrants is the big story now, but it is just one of the early acts in this story. We were too quick to intervene when countries posed no real threat, now they do we hold off.
It was also mentioned on this thread the amount of money needed to get on one of these boats. I think he quoted $1500, all of which he had had to borrow.
The journey across north Africa sounds even worse - have a look for @PatrickKingsley on Twitter for details if you like.
Yes, it would be great to end the Syrian Civil War, but that is a very long-term solution. It is also possible to do both - work to put pressure on Gulf states, try to end the Syrian Civil War, and take some refugees in if they flee.
And if you don't support it you don't contribute, but they agree that only the money in that pot can be spent supporting the cause including education, welfare, medical the whole shabang, let's see how many we can allow in based on that figure, I reckon a few hundred max, if the 380k who signed that petition all gave an extra pound a month to the pot
How can I have the oppinion that the UK shouldn't allow in hundreds, if not thousands, of sex slave trafficking gypsies and flooding certain areas with them, while being an immigrant myself?
Does it need to be demonstrated at football that I want to help people come to Britain? No, what good is it going to do apart from people saying "aaahh isn't that nice"? Look at social media and the petitions etc they are what can and will make a difference.
I caught Channel 4 news earlier and there was obviously a lot of focus on the situation. Jon Snow was asking random people outside Liverpool Street Station on their opinion and if we should let more refugee's in. A majority said yes, a couple of people said no and then there was a young couple. They said something along the lines of 'its their problems they should try and sort it, it's not down to us', Snow then asked where they were both from and they were Romanian and Polish. Obviously put in there to stir a reaction.
The Syrian Civil War started as protests against the Assad government, which were cracked down. This was long before ISIS.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-liddle/2013/05/does-william-hague-know-he-is-doing-with-syria/
The Free Syrian Army (main member of the National Coalition etc) are fighting Assad.
That does not mean that they are one and the same, nor that they were fighting together. Rod Liddle's article contains very little information.
The vacuum that follows the war as in Iraq, invites the opportunistic fundamentalists that are even worse than what preceeded.
Why are these refugees not following the rules imposed by the EU by declaring refugee status in the first country they enter?
Also, now that they are out of harms way in Syria and safely in Hungary, why not stay there? You were fleeing for safety, you're safe... Why the need to proceed onto Germany, the UK etc? Oh I remember, money. Every single thing in this world comes back down to money or lack there of
Why not go to these refugee camps that Hungary has setup, you're safe at least, correct? But no, they don't want they, they start a skirmish with officers and start chanting Germany, Germany...
In no way intending to be flippant but with the current unrest re the future use of the Olympic Stadium, maybe the solution would be to turn it into a refugee centre to house, even temporarily, those seeking a place of safety.
Two problems solved in one fail swoop ?
''Nobody puts their children in a boat unless the water is safer then the land...'' Made me think.