I suppose the truth about the fee and any release clause may eventually emerge in the fullness of time. The approach of much of the media seems to be to make it up as they go along. If there was, indeed, an agreed trigger of £3.5 million, that would obviously have reflected the outcome of negotiations last year at a time when the club did not have much of a negotiating position at all. It's to the credit of Joe and his family and their enlightened self-interest that he signed a pro contract with us, rather than succumbing to the blandishments of people like Chelsea.
It's not immediately obvious how 'adds-ons' or sell-on fees would come into the deal but I sincerely hope they do - especially the latter, as I expect Liverpool to make a very large profit at some future date.
Whoever wrote up the clause of £3.5 million, if it exists, should be sacked. No way a player of that age who'd the club thought could break into the first team on that contract would be worth that little.
Gomez, like shelvey, was always going. Just a matter of when and how much we could get.
£6 million plus add ons would be fair for us and give us a bit of a kitty. Gomez will be quality, I don't think I've ever seen the lad fazed by anything.
Southampton Got 16 million for Calum Chambers who was a reserve full back for Southampton behind Shaw and Clyne.(calum was 19 at the time) Cafc should tell the fans what the add on's are.
I think 3.5M is poor unless the add on are superb ,which i doubt. Are we saying Gomez is a special talent or not ? 3.5 says not.
Arsenal have signed England Under-19 defender Calum Chambers from Southampton for about £16m.
The 19-year-old made 25 appearances for the Saints and Arsenal see him as an option at right-back, centre-back or in a more advanced role.
"The way he adapted to the Premier League last season at a young age shows that he has tremendous quality," said Gunners boss Arsene Wenger.
There in lies a difference in value and fee of the players , gomez spent the last half of the season in a mid table championship team
Chambers was performing in the top league against some of the best players in the world and come through it with flying colours
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
Ok mate, lets just look at Palace, and drop the stripy nigels bit for a moment (because however much you hate them, I've hated them longer and harder than you because I'm older than you, and went to school with more of the bastards i think:-)). look at them as a club that has overtaken us and now become the 12th best in the country.
are you suggesting that Palace treated Zaha as a cash cow? because he seems more than happy to have returned to the club that apparently treated him like a piece of meat, doesnt he? And you can cast aspersions on his time at United, but since his return, when Ive seen him he's looked pretty much like the player that ruined Wiggins last time I saw him in the flesh. Then there's Bolassie. Why didn't he start agitating to follow Zaha out to a glamour club? maybe the answer - unpalatable as it is to both of us - is that Palace created an environment of a club that is going places, a good place to be, and a good place to build your career. And look at Bolassie now.
I'm a bit sceptical of this thing you've got about "go oop north son, and prove yourself a man" and that Zaha failed the test. You really don't know that is what it was. Loads of young players fail the big money step up. Not least Scott Parker, eh? Couldn't handle the tough alien environment of Esher :-) And anyway who says that all footballers have to uproot in order to prove themselves? What the hell is wrong with a home loving kid who wants to stay near his Mum and Dad, so long as he plays brilliantly for the club that pays his wages???
Seems to me that Palace have done two things that we should seek to copy.
1. Make yourself a decent club to be part of
2. Be self confident. Don't say to the talented kid " come to us and we' ll prepare you for the big money move to the Premiership". Do say "Come to us because we are going to the premiership and we want you to help get us there. And when we are there, we won't forget that you helped us get there"
We can only help that Pardew will quickly screw it all up. Otherwise I'm afraid the threat to our local talent comes not so much from West Ham but from the stripy anything-but - mugs.
Whoever wrote up the clause of £3.5 million, if it exists, should be sacked. No way a player of that age who'd the club thought could break into the first team on that contract would be worth that little.
Gomez, like shelvey, was always going. Just a matter of when and how much we could get.
£6 million plus add ons would be fair for us and give us a bit of a kitty. Gomez will be quality, I don't think I've ever seen the lad fazed by anything.
KA I understand that you're upset about the £3.5m but I'd guess that it was Joe's side who specified the sell on amount. What kind of negotiating position do you think we were in with an unsigned 16 year old who was free to leave for a tribunal pittance?
Whoever wrote up the clause of £3.5 million, if it exists, should be sacked. No way a player of that age who'd the club thought could break into the first team on that contract would be worth that little.
Gomez, like shelvey, was always going. Just a matter of when and how much we could get.
£6 million plus add ons would be fair for us and give us a bit of a kitty. Gomez will be quality, I don't think I've ever seen the lad fazed by anything.
KA I understand that you're upset about the £3.5m but I'd guess that it was Joe's side who specified the sell on amount. What kind of negotiating position do you think we were in with an unsigned 16 year old who was free to leave for a tribunal pittance?
Much the same as Palace were with Zaha at the same stage, i'd have thought.
Thing's are moving in the right direction. We're chucking out more and more quality youngsters and we're getting a reputation for blooding them early. Joe won't be the last.
I don't want him to leave I am gutted that he will go before we get to see the best of him but this could have been a hell of a lot worse if either party had acted differently speaks volumes about the lad and his family , and from what I can see the club have acted in a perfectly acceptable Manor and tried to achieve the best they could , especially as he signed the extension last season based on the offer and promises made to him
Exactly.
If anyone believes that it should or could be any different, are kidding themselves.
We are Charlton and like most Clubs this is how we survive - even with a multi million pound owner. It was ever thus.
And when Joe gets his first England cap - like Poyet, when he gets his first Uruguayan Cap - I will with great pleasure sit back and purr......... Ex Charlton Youth.
And my Valley Gold monies will continue to help the Club bring on and develop this kind of talent.
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
Ok mate, lets just look at Palace, and drop the stripy nigels bit for a moment (because however much you hate them, I've hated them longer and harder than you because I'm older than you, and went to school with more of the bastards i think:-)). look at them as a club that has overtaken us and now become the 12th best in the country.
are you suggesting that Palace treated Zaha as a cash cow? because he seems more than happy to have returned to the club that apparently treated him like a piece of meat, doesnt he? And you can cast aspersions on his time at United, but since his return, when Ive seen him he's looked pretty much like the player that ruined Wiggins last time I saw him in the flesh. Then there's Bolassie. Why didn't he start agitating to follow Zaha out to a glamour club? maybe the answer - unpalatable as it is to both of us - is that Palace created an environment of a club that is going places, a good place to be, and a good place to build your career. And look at Bolassie now.
I'm a bit sceptical of this thing you've got about "go oop north son, and prove yourself a man" and that Zaha failed the test. You really don't know that is what it was. Loads of young players fail the big money step up. Not least Scott Parker, eh? Couldn't handle the tough alien environment of Esher :-) And anyway who says that all footballers have to uproot in order to prove themselves? What the hell is wrong with a home loving kid who wants to stay near his Mum and Dad, so long as he plays brilliantly for the club that pays his wages???
Seems to me that Palace have done two things that we should seek to copy.
1. Make yourself a decent club to be part of
2. Be self confident. Don't say to the talented kid " come to us and we' ll prepare you for the big money move to the Premiership". Do say "Come to us because we are going to the premiership and we want you to help get us there. And when we are there, we won't forget that you helped us get there"
We can only help that Pardew will quickly screw it all up. Otherwise I'm afraid the threat to our local talent comes not so much from West Ham but from the stripy anything-but - mugs.
Or pay them £40k a week.
Palace matched Zaha's wages at United.
If Palace had been relegated 100% both Zaha and Bolassie would have left them.
Our league position dictates how well we can attract players. Gomez would not be leaving us of we had been promoted.
Happy for Joe if this news about him going to Liverpool is true. Despite their downward trajectory of recent times, they are still one of the biggest clubs in England and Europe.
Sad that we will not see him truly grow into the finished polished article at the Valley. In years to come as he plays in World Cup tournaments Charlton will not be uttered as part of his development by the media because as far they will be concerned it all started at Liverpool.
Worried that we will have a huge hole at CB in the squad!
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
Ok mate, lets just look at Palace, and drop the stripy nigels bit for a moment (because however much you hate them, I've hated them longer and harder than you because I'm older than you, and went to school with more of the bastards i think:-)). look at them as a club that has overtaken us and now become the 12th best in the country.
are you suggesting that Palace treated Zaha as a cash cow? because he seems more than happy to have returned to the club that apparently treated him like a piece of meat, doesnt he? And you can cast aspersions on his time at United, but since his return, when Ive seen him he's looked pretty much like the player that ruined Wiggins last time I saw him in the flesh. Then there's Bolassie. Why didn't he start agitating to follow Zaha out to a glamour club? maybe the answer - unpalatable as it is to both of us - is that Palace created an environment of a club that is going places, a good place to be, and a good place to build your career. And look at Bolassie now.
I'm a bit sceptical of this thing you've got about "go oop north son, and prove yourself a man" and that Zaha failed the test. You really don't know that is what it was. Loads of young players fail the big money step up. Not least Scott Parker, eh? Couldn't handle the tough alien environment of Esher :-) And anyway who says that all footballers have to uproot in order to prove themselves? What the hell is wrong with a home loving kid who wants to stay near his Mum and Dad, so long as he plays brilliantly for the club that pays his wages???
Seems to me that Palace have done two things that we should seek to copy.
1. Make yourself a decent club to be part of
2. Be self confident. Don't say to the talented kid " come to us and we' ll prepare you for the big money move to the Premiership". Do say "Come to us because we are going to the premiership and we want you to help get us there. And when we are there, we won't forget that you helped us get there"
We can only help that Pardew will quickly screw it all up. Otherwise I'm afraid the threat to our local talent comes not so much from West Ham but from the stripy anything-but - mugs.
Or pay them £40k a week.
Palace matched Zaha's wages at United.
If Palace had been relegated 100% both Zaha and Bolassie would have left them.
Our league position dictates how well we can attract players. Gomez would not be leaving us of we had been promoted.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Zaha "leave" while Palace were in the same division as us, but stick around another season on loan to get them into the Premiership? and are you saying that Palace paid him 40k that season? that's quite a claim.
Not saying its Gomez fault, at 18, for not offering...I'm saying that there is a 67 year old businessman who should be asking, if he understands football as well as he thinks he does.
Zaha had played 100 + games for palace when he signed for man utd I am sure I had read, he was an extremely hot property at that time, if man utd wanted to beat the other teams sniffing they needed a way to get their man, I am sure I could Google how long he had remaining on his contract at that time as well which also would have allowed palace to dig their heels in deep and also force man utd to offer something to be be the club that palace wanted to deal with over all others
Your missing the point about loaning and up north the location is irrelevant, if I wanted to see what a player is made of , I'd take him outside of his comfort zone, I'd look at him in pressure situations and monitor his ability and build a plan to fix anything I was noticing that affected his temperament, his focus, his control and his desire to be the best player he can
Now I am not going to do this at the detriment of the player and the team I run , so I am going to say to him , I want you to go to this club as a premier league player , they are in the same league or if able the league above where you get them from, but they are not near enough for the player to have the same home comforts as before , they need to interact with new people , in a new environment and they need to continue to show the development that has been shown already hence why I signed them,
I then know that when I bring the player back to me , that first part of his development has been completed , he will have little to no nerves of entering a changing room or training ground environment with 26 new faces, he will understand the process required to adapt and fit in and will be able to concentrate on the football side of things without too much of an issue ,
Now if the player Is spectacular like Rooney or Owen at the age of 16 then you don't need to do that as their pure ability takes them there but as attackers it's such a niche to score goals you can hide a lot of weakness in the pure ability to hit the net
These are one offs,
If we take 3 quality players of similar age to gomez that played for arsenal , West ham, Chelsea
This will show my point
John Terry was sent on loan from Chelsea to forest not for long ten games or so ,
Jack Wiltshire arsenal to Bolton for around the same length of time
Rio from West ham to Bournemouth, although not north a substantial distance south f t of his home for a similar period of time
So we have arguably England's two best centre halves and one of the current best midfielders who all were loaned out from their club to distances that tested their characters , all who once they returned started to break into their teams
Parker did for us went to Norwich and was ten times the player who left us when he returned
Norwich might as well be Northwich in the time it can take to get there at times
The only difference being they were at the top table already, Liverpool need to see if he can do that and make that change , because if you can deal with that at that age your some character and if you can have the character to be a special player and that matches the gift you are born with , then you are ready to go.in the squad and you will prove yourself
You can't see that in a player by giving him back to the club you got him from
Zaha had played 100 + games for palace when he signed for man utd I am sure I had read, he was an extremely hot property at that time, if man utd wanted to beat the other teams sniffing they needed a way to get their man, I am sure I could Google how long he had remaining on his contract at that time as well which also would have allowed palace to dig their heels in deep and also force man utd to offer something to be be the club that palace wanted to deal with over all others
Your missing the point about loaning and up north the location is irrelevant, if I wanted to see what a player is made of , I'd take him outside of his comfort zone, I'd look at him in pressure situations and monitor his ability and build a plan to fix anything I was noticing that affected his temperament, his focus, his control and his desire to be the best player he can
Now I am not going to do this at the detriment of the player and the team I run , so I am going to say to him , I want you to go to this club as a premier league player , they are in the same league or if able the league above where you get them from, but they are not near enough for the player to have the same home comforts as before , they need to interact with new people , in a new environment and they need to continue to show the development that has been shown already hence why I signed them,
I then know that when I bring the player back to me , that first part of his development has been completed , he will have little to no nerves of entering a changing room or training ground environment with 26 new faces, he will understand the process required to adapt and fit in and will be able to concentrate on the football side of things without too much of an issue ,
Now if the player Is spectacular like Rooney or Owen at the age of 16 then you don't need to do that as their pure ability takes them there but as attackers it's such a niche to score goals you can hide a lot of weakness in the pure ability to hit the net
These are one offs,
If we take 3 quality players of similar age to gomez that played for arsenal , West ham, Chelsea
This will show my point
John Terry was sent on loan from Chelsea to forest not for long ten games or so ,
Jack Wiltshire arsenal to Bolton for around the same length of time
Rio from West ham to Bournemouth, although not north a substantial distance south f t of his home for a similar period of time
So we have arguably England's two best centre halves and one of the current best midfielders who all were loaned out from their club to distances that tested their characters , all who once they returned started to break into their teams
Parker did for us went to Norwich and was ten times the player who left us when he returned
Norwich might as well be Northwich in the time it can take to get there at times
The only difference being they were at the top table already, Liverpool need to see if he can do that and make that change , because if you can deal with that at that age your some character and if you can have the character to be a special player and that matches the gift you are born with , then you are ready to go.in the squad and you will prove yourself
You can't see that in a player by giving him back to the club you got him from
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
Ok mate, lets just look at Palace, and drop the stripy nigels bit for a moment (because however much you hate them, I've hated them longer and harder than you because I'm older than you, and went to school with more of the bastards i think:-)). look at them as a club that has overtaken us and now become the 12th best in the country.
are you suggesting that Palace treated Zaha as a cash cow? because he seems more than happy to have returned to the club that apparently treated him like a piece of meat, doesnt he? And you can cast aspersions on his time at United, but since his return, when Ive seen him he's looked pretty much like the player that ruined Wiggins last time I saw him in the flesh. Then there's Bolassie. Why didn't he start agitating to follow Zaha out to a glamour club? maybe the answer - unpalatable as it is to both of us - is that Palace created an environment of a club that is going places, a good place to be, and a good place to build your career. And look at Bolassie now.
I'm a bit sceptical of this thing you've got about "go oop north son, and prove yourself a man" and that Zaha failed the test. You really don't know that is what it was. Loads of young players fail the big money step up. Not least Scott Parker, eh? Couldn't handle the tough alien environment of Esher :-) And anyway who says that all footballers have to uproot in order to prove themselves? What the hell is wrong with a home loving kid who wants to stay near his Mum and Dad, so long as he plays brilliantly for the club that pays his wages???
Seems to me that Palace have done two things that we should seek to copy.
1. Make yourself a decent club to be part of
2. Be self confident. Don't say to the talented kid " come to us and we' ll prepare you for the big money move to the Premiership". Do say "Come to us because we are going to the premiership and we want you to help get us there. And when we are there, we won't forget that you helped us get there"
We can only help that Pardew will quickly screw it all up. Otherwise I'm afraid the threat to our local talent comes not so much from West Ham but from the stripy anything-but - mugs.
Or pay them £40k a week.
Palace matched Zaha's wages at United.
If Palace had been relegated 100% both Zaha and Bolassie would have left them.
Our league position dictates how well we can attract players. Gomez would not be leaving us of we had been promoted.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Zaha "leave" while Palace were in the same division as us, but stick around another season on loan to get them into the Premiership? and are you saying that Palace paid him 40k that season? that's quite a claim.
Not saying its Gomez fault, at 18, for not offering...I'm saying that there is a 67 year old businessman who should be asking, if he understands football as well as he thinks he does.
Palace didn't even pay a loan fee for Zaha let alone his wages whilst he was sent back on loan by United.
Indeed, the whole Zaha deal was a magnificent piece of double dealing by Holloway, who led United to believe they were in competition with a whole host of Clubs for his signature.
Palace received one offer, and one offer only for Zaha. They also had first dibs on him should United want to get rid and they took up that opportunity.
The deal Parish got on Zaha, was purely down to the skills of the much maligned Holloway and his team.
I am sure utd signed Zaha in the January of that season , and he remained there on loan to aid them get promotion due to their league position at the time ,
Hence why the offer of Man utd to loan him back immediately gave them the lead card in the top trumps , palace were up for it utd , didn't need him fergies last season they won the league pretty easily in the end, those that wanted him wanted him to try and claw back points from utd , so were probably not as keen on that as a sweetner, not only did it strengthen utds negotiations it weakend their opponents as one of the key personnel targets for arsenal and I believe Liverpool at that stage of the interest were not able to even talk to him
Zaha had played 100 + games for palace when he signed for man utd I am sure I had read, he was an extremely hot property at that time, if man utd wanted to beat the other teams sniffing they needed a way to get their man, I am sure I could Google how long he had remaining on his contract at that time as well which also would have allowed palace to dig their heels in deep and also force man utd to offer something to be be the club that palace wanted to deal with over all others
Your missing the point about loaning and up north the location is irrelevant, if I wanted to see what a player is made of , I'd take him outside of his comfort zone, I'd look at him in pressure situations and monitor his ability and build a plan to fix anything I was noticing that affected his temperament, his focus, his control and his desire to be the best player he can
Now I am not going to do this at the detriment of the player and the team I run , so I am going to say to him , I want you to go to this club as a premier league player , they are in the same league or if able the league above where you get them from, but they are not near enough for the player to have the same home comforts as before , they need to interact with new people , in a new environment and they need to continue to show the development that has been shown already hence why I signed them,
I then know that when I bring the player back to me , that first part of his development has been completed , he will have little to no nerves of entering a changing room or training ground environment with 26 new faces, he will understand the process required to adapt and fit in and will be able to concentrate on the football side of things without too much of an issue ,
Now if the player Is spectacular like Rooney or Owen at the age of 16 then you don't need to do that as their pure ability takes them there but as attackers it's such a niche to score goals you can hide a lot of weakness in the pure ability to hit the net
These are one offs,
If we take 3 quality players of similar age to gomez that played for arsenal , West ham, Chelsea
This will show my point
John Terry was sent on loan from Chelsea to forest not for long ten games or so ,
Jack Wiltshire arsenal to Bolton for around the same length of time
Rio from West ham to Bournemouth, although not north a substantial distance south f t of his home for a similar period of time
So we have arguably England's two best centre halves and one of the current best midfielders who all were loaned out from their club to distances that tested their characters , all who once they returned started to break into their teams
Parker did for us went to Norwich and was ten times the player who left us when he returned
Norwich might as well be Northwich in the time it can take to get there at times
The only difference being they were at the top table already, Liverpool need to see if he can do that and make that change , because if you can deal with that at that age your some character and if you can have the character to be a special player and that matches the gift you are born with , then you are ready to go.in the squad and you will prove yourself
You can't see that in a player by giving him back to the club you got him from
where did Liverpool send Steven Gerrard?
How about Beckham - didn't he go to Preston?
Some go on loan, some don't. NLA makes a good point.
No where same as Owen went no where , but had Liverpool bought Steven Gerrard I bet they would have loaned him out
Beckham went to Preston not miles from man utd granted but far enough as he had the comfort of the utd houses
Poyet to liege for European experience the only person who even mentioned it never gave his full chapter and verse on what went on did he, Mr Poyet and his I will tell all told feck all and this fella loved a tweet
I asked about this release clause today and the response I got was, 'Rubbish. Why would we bother with release clauses, when pound notes are all that counts?'. So not really sure where it's come from.
No where same as Owen went no where , but had Liverpool bought Steven Gerrard I bet they would have loaned him out
Beckham went to Preston not miles from man utd granted but far enough as he had the comfort of the utd houses
Poyet to liege for European experience the only person who even mentioned it never gave his full chapter and verse on what went on did he, Mr Poyet and his I will tell all told feck all and this fella loved a tweet
So to become a world class player you don't have to be forcibly uprooted from your family roots, even though I agree that in some cases it can do a player good. It is not a guaranteed recipe for success. If it had been Arsenal who triggered the release clause, you'd presumably still approve?
And that's the crux of the issue, it's about a critical view of a situation that so far no one knows anything real details about,
We don't know if there is a clause, if there is what does it mean is it Suarez clause where to negotiate you must bid this as a minimum but that is not the selling figure
Is it 3.5 Mil he is yours but there has to be x y z add ons
Or is there no clause at all
Unfortunately as with all things RD and cafc right now we Can only wait and Watch and see
But so far it has been insinuated on here and elsewhere that doings and goings on with transfers could be anything from money laundering, to incompetence and every other possibilitiy in the world in between
No one knows if Rd is incapable of getting these right who he wants Mgr next only Rd and that I'd driving some people Rd the twist
Sorry, Addickted, a bit slow on the uptake there - I thought you were referring to the possibility of a substantial Joe Gomez sell-on percentage.
Sadly, I don't have any Prussian ancestors. The user name is derived from a Fullers pub around the corner from us on Twickenham Green, which used to have a sign (sadly now replaced) which looked remarkably like Killer Hales. According to that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia, Blucher was renowned for his " aggressive approach in warfare", so the likeness was very apt.
Poyet ain't a world class player though is he and I would bet a few quid that he won't even become a premier league top quality player
maybe if he had been taken out of his comfort zone and gone somewhere further a field than East London he wouldn't have a numb arse and be heading that way ,
Comments
It's not immediately obvious how 'adds-ons' or sell-on fees would come into the deal but I sincerely hope they do - especially the latter, as I expect Liverpool to make a very large profit at some future date.
Gomez, like shelvey, was always going. Just a matter of when and how much we could get.
£6 million plus add ons would be fair for us and give us a bit of a kitty. Gomez will be quality, I don't think I've ever seen the lad fazed by anything.
Arsenal have signed England Under-19 defender Calum Chambers from Southampton for about £16m.
The 19-year-old made 25 appearances for the Saints and Arsenal see him as an option at right-back, centre-back or in a more advanced role.
"The way he adapted to the Premier League last season at a young age shows that he has tremendous quality," said Gunners boss Arsene Wenger.
There in lies a difference in value and fee of the players , gomez spent the last half of the season in a mid table championship team
Chambers was performing in the top league against some of the best players in the world and come through it with flying colours
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
Ok mate, lets just look at Palace, and drop the stripy nigels bit for a moment (because however much you hate them, I've hated them longer and harder than you because I'm older than you, and went to school with more of the bastards i think:-)). look at them as a club that has overtaken us and now become the 12th best in the country.
are you suggesting that Palace treated Zaha as a cash cow? because he seems more than happy to have returned to the club that apparently treated him like a piece of meat, doesnt he? And you can cast aspersions on his time at United, but since his return, when Ive seen him he's looked pretty much like the player that ruined Wiggins last time I saw him in the flesh. Then there's Bolassie. Why didn't he start agitating to follow Zaha out to a glamour club? maybe the answer - unpalatable as it is to both of us - is that Palace created an environment of a club that is going places, a good place to be, and a good place to build your career. And look at Bolassie now.
I'm a bit sceptical of this thing you've got about "go oop north son, and prove yourself a man" and that Zaha failed the test. You really don't know that is what it was. Loads of young players fail the big money step up. Not least Scott Parker, eh? Couldn't handle the tough alien environment of Esher :-) And anyway who says that all footballers have to uproot in order to prove themselves? What the hell is wrong with a home loving kid who wants to stay near his Mum and Dad, so long as he plays brilliantly for the club that pays his wages???
Seems to me that Palace have done two things that we should seek to copy.
1. Make yourself a decent club to be part of
2. Be self confident. Don't say to the talented kid " come to us and we' ll prepare you for the big money move to the Premiership". Do say "Come to us because we are going to the premiership and we want you to help get us there. And when we are there, we won't forget that you helped us get there"
We can only help that Pardew will quickly screw it all up. Otherwise I'm afraid the threat to our local talent comes not so much from West Ham but from the stripy anything-but - mugs.
Sorry to labour the point.
If anyone believes that it should or could be any different, are kidding themselves.
We are Charlton and like most Clubs this is how we survive - even with a multi million pound owner. It was ever thus.
And when Joe gets his first England cap - like Poyet, when he gets his first Uruguayan Cap - I will with great pleasure sit back and purr......... Ex Charlton Youth.
And my Valley Gold monies will continue to help the Club bring on and develop this kind of talent.
Palace matched Zaha's wages at United.
If Palace had been relegated 100% both Zaha and Bolassie would have left them.
Our league position dictates how well we can attract players. Gomez would not be leaving us of we had been promoted.
Sad that we will not see him truly grow into the finished polished article at the Valley. In years to come as he plays in World Cup tournaments Charlton will not be uttered as part of his development by the media because as far they will be concerned it all started at Liverpool.
Worried that we will have a huge hole at CB in the squad!
Not saying its Gomez fault, at 18, for not offering...I'm saying that there is a 67 year old businessman who should be asking, if he understands football as well as he thinks he does.
Your missing the point about loaning and up north the location is irrelevant, if I wanted to see what a player is made of , I'd take him outside of his comfort zone, I'd look at him in pressure situations and monitor his ability and build a plan to fix anything I was noticing that affected his temperament, his focus, his control and his desire to be the best player he can
Now I am not going to do this at the detriment of the player and the team I run , so I am going to say to him , I want you to go to this club as a premier league player , they are in the same league or if able the league above where you get them from, but they are not near enough for the player to have the same home comforts as before , they need to interact with new people , in a new environment and they need to continue to show the development that has been shown already hence why I signed them,
I then know that when I bring the player back to me , that first part of his development has been completed , he will have little to no nerves of entering a changing room or training ground environment with 26 new faces, he will understand the process required to adapt and fit in and will be able to concentrate on the football side of things without too much of an issue ,
Now if the player Is spectacular like Rooney or Owen at the age of 16 then you don't need to do that as their pure ability takes them there but as attackers it's such a niche to score goals you can hide a lot of weakness in the pure ability to hit the net
These are one offs,
If we take 3 quality players of similar age to gomez that played for arsenal , West ham, Chelsea
This will show my point
John Terry was sent on loan from Chelsea to forest not for long ten games or so ,
Jack Wiltshire arsenal to Bolton for around the same length of time
Rio from West ham to Bournemouth, although not north a substantial distance south f t of his home for a similar period of time
So we have arguably England's two best centre halves and one of the current best midfielders who all were loaned out from their club to distances that tested their characters , all who once they returned started to break into their teams
Parker did for us went to Norwich and was ten times the player who left us when he returned
Norwich might as well be Northwich in the time it can take to get there at times
The only difference being they were at the top table already, Liverpool need to see if he can do that and make that change , because if you can deal with that at that age your some character and if you can have the character to be a special player and that matches the gift you are born with , then you are ready to go.in the squad and you will prove yourself
You can't see that in a player by giving him back to the club you got him from
Indeed, the whole Zaha deal was a magnificent piece of double dealing by Holloway, who led United to believe they were in competition with a whole host of Clubs for his signature.
Palace received one offer, and one offer only for Zaha. They also had first dibs on him should United want to get rid and they took up that opportunity.
The deal Parish got on Zaha, was purely down to the skills of the much maligned Holloway and his team.
Some go on loan, some don't. NLA makes a good point.
Beckham went to Preston not miles from man utd granted but far enough as he had the comfort of the utd houses
Poyet to liege for European experience the only person who even mentioned it never gave his full chapter and verse on what went on did he, Mr Poyet and his I will tell all told feck all and this fella loved a tweet
if that were true, that would ask further questions about our club's business strategy.
but this is the bloke who tolled the bell for Karel Fraeye as our next manager
We don't know if there is a clause, if there is what does it mean is it Suarez clause where to negotiate you must bid this as a minimum but that is not the selling figure
Is it 3.5 Mil he is yours but there has to be x y z add ons
Or is there no clause at all
Unfortunately as with all things RD and cafc right now we Can only wait and Watch and see
But so far it has been insinuated on here and elsewhere that doings and goings on with transfers could be anything from money laundering, to incompetence and every other possibilitiy in the world in between
No one knows if Rd is incapable of getting these right who he wants Mgr next only Rd and that I'd driving some people Rd the twist
As long as the deal is right for CAFC.
Sadly, I don't have any Prussian ancestors. The user name is derived from a Fullers pub around the corner from us on Twickenham Green, which used to have a sign (sadly now replaced) which looked remarkably like Killer Hales. According to that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia, Blucher was renowned for his " aggressive approach in warfare", so the likeness was very apt.
maybe if he had been taken out of his comfort zone and gone somewhere further a field than East London he wouldn't have a numb arse and be heading that way ,