Why is undisclosed such an issue, if we are in need of replacing gomez surely it's better people don't know what we have to spend,
We have a youth system for this exact reason, create them and bed them in hopefully win promotion if we can get a good crop come through at the same time without spending money the club can't support without the owner funding out of his own pocket and to generate funds to build a squad to supplement any youth coming through
I've never seen "Undisclosed" as the club wanting the keep the information from the fans.
The way I see it, if we sell Joe Gomez for £10m, and try to buy a replacement, our ability to haggle with other clubs isnt going to be as strong because if we bid £500k for a Defender, their club could instantly turn round and say, no we want £2m for him, come on, we know you can afford it because you'll still have £8m left from the Gomez sale etc...
Exactly my point pal , it's no business of anyone how much we recieved, I am sure that when accounts are submitted it won't be too hard to work out the figure ,
I'd say the figure mentioned is not too far off the truth
Exactly my point pal , it's no business of anyone how much we recieved, I am sure that when accounts are submitted it won't be too hard to work out the figure ,
I'd say the figure mentioned is not too far off the truth
Sorry mate... thought you didnt like Undisclosed deals and that you were saying that fees should always be disclosed
Maybe the club should close down Valley Gold then. I have been told I am helping to build the clubs future - in comms from the club. Gomez praised Valley Gold when he won his award. As a member, it should give me the right to make a comment when a young player is sold surely.
No one is saying that it shouldn't be discussed or debated, or if it's right or if it's wrong though , I don't think any transfer fee should be disclosed as it just increases the price on who you want to get in as a replacement,
Doesn't make it the right view I could be totally wrong in that opinion and that as has been mentioned above, fans pay their money to support the club and as part of that commitment they deserve to know the ins and outs of every thing that happens within the club
A loan back only benefits cafc it has no value to Joe or Liverpool, it would be a nice clause to have but as development for him I don't see how it is any good , Wilfred Zaha got a loan back and then flopped in the transfer it'self he could not handle being away from his home and family network and ended up back at those stripey mugs on a permanent return
For the player and the other club they need to see if he can cope with moving his whole life away from his comfort zone, I'd expect to see him loaned to a club up nth for a season , he also needs to be able to be coached by different people to see how he adapts ,
What benefit is it to Joe or Liverpool them loaning him back to us and if it's something they don't wish to do should it really block or scupper his opportunity to move
The kid ain't done anything wrong to not be treated fairly, his best pal upped and left without a second glance he could have done the same , there is a very well used phrase on CL and that is move on everyone should do this in this situation
If he goes for anything under the 3.5 mentioned then there's a lot of questions to be asked about the ability of those who are in charge of negotiations as it would be an absolute travesty to let potential walk for anything other than that
Well. Whom do you support? CAFC or Joe Gomez? I want contracts that benefit the club, and its fans who have funded Joe Gomez development in the game.
Your assumptions about Zaha are just that. The facts are though, that Palace's handling of Zaha have been an outstanding success for the club and its fans. They are stripy but they are no longer mugs, and it might be high time we got our heads out of our asses and acknowledged that.
Your objections to a loan back clause in the contracts simply would not apply had the buying club been Arsenal or Chelsea, would they? As for whether or not it benefits him, well Jimmy Stone seems to think that he would have been happy to stay here another season, one way or another, and he seems to have as good links to the players as you do. Not to dismiss your insight, but I have no idea whether you have greater insights than Jimmy Stone on this one.
We have always been a selling club re our young players of course. What has changed is the ridiculous imbalance between the FAPL and the rest. They are hoovering up young players almost indiscriminately because they can. They see who works, and those that don't get thrown out. Look at Chelsea. If it goes on this way (i.e players being sold before they've even completed a full season) then virtually every good young player will be on the books of the Big Four, and farmed out to clubs like us on loan on their whims. Another way in which the bond between clubs and their fans will be broken.
So the point is that in the past we at least got a couple of season or more out of the likes of Bowyer and Parker before bowing to market forces. We need to strengthen our contracts with our best young players so that we get to see them in the first team for at least one season. When they are sold before people have had a chance to enjoy their talents, that is when Valley Gold becomes completely undermined. It's absurd to suggest that Joe Gomez has nothing to gain from staying another season with us. He has to gain a virtual guaranteed first team slot in a team he knows and which might even challenge for promotion. If that would not benefit him, then why do FAPL clubs loan out so many players to Championship or League One sides.
I'm not blaming Joe Gomez. I'm blaming our failure to get to grips with the current market and behaviour of FAPL clubs.
My opinion mate is purely that not based on any info with regards to Joe gomez and what is happening with him and this move,
For me yes I support cafc over every player or manager, but I also feel that if I was signing Joe for a club or representing him in this move I would strongly advise him against being loaned back to any club that I had signed him from,
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
You yourself have raised a fair concern on the impact of West ham and the Olympic stadium and as a result I would feel that they will be seen even if more attractive for families whose kids have potential,
However for us to not lose numerous youngsters to them if we are seen as a club who can develop, look after and get into the first team when ready, and not stand in the way of their future development, by not putting obstacles in the way of any future moves with clauses and conditions that don't benefit all, and weigh heavily on one side
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
The biggest story of it all will be where the money goes once he is sold, and we may not find out the amount until accounts are filed but the information will come out in the end and we will either have a right to fell outrage or satisfied in the deal being beneficial to us in all ways
As for Zaha he didn't and couldn't settle, he was not half the player in training or stature in Manchester, how much of that was due to moyes and the leaving of fergie, will never really get out, but as a player he has not reached the heights he could by returning to the stripey mugs
So do we just guess if that's just another young player we have sold too cheap. Our track record is poor over the years, doesn't sound like we played hardball, so just bullshit that Arsenal and Man city were interested as well.
So do we just guess if that's just another young player we have sold too cheap. Our track record is poor over the years, doesn't sound like we played hardball, so just bullshit that Arsenal and Man city were interested as well.
Why? He can only pick one club and the rumoured up front fee has been said to be anything from £3.5m to £6m.
On the point about arsenal and Chelsea , what do they do with 99% of youngsters in the latter stages of development, they loan them out and a fair number head a distance away from their comfort zone, like I said in my post I expect to see Joe go on loan and I would guess that it will be a club closer to them than us and that is far enough to see if he is mature enough as a man and player to cope with that and the issues it brings with it,
With Parker we were a prem outfit so it was beneficial to him to stay here and with bowyer he came obscurity to first team after being released by George graham early in his career
Joe gomez has been the worst kept secret in youth football, he has had people sniffing since very young and is not comparible to any player we have had in the past with the exception of maybe defoe and we all know what happened there
Fans are entitled to discuss transfer fees. We're the ones who cough up after all.
We certainly are entitled to discuss fees especially since that is one of the main objectives of this new owner. for several years now we have made £2M a year on player sales and now we have five players who might all fetch more than that.
I would point out that the club is also funded by TV Media deals, sponsors, loans from the owner* and player sales.
*loans from the owner are only ever repaid if he/they run the club successfully and can sell the club at a profit. Ask Simon jordan or his predecessor
The TV companies get their money back through advertising and subscriptions and they certainly have a big voice in the game - just look at FFP loss limits doubling because the FAPL and their backers wanted clubs to spend more. Even though FFP was starting to bite and, I believe, was making thedivision more competitive.
Unfortunately our contribution as fans is a smaller slice of the pie these days and I suspect there is an assumption that most of us will always show up come rain or shine. We can discuss matters about the club but I'm not sure the board and management are going to take us back to the 90s. Especially when I read some of the views and judgements made by some fans on here!
Bringing this back on topic, I welcome the fact that we were able to sign Joe Gomez up last year and that if he goes it helps the clubs finances. I want us to get better every window and think that selling the odd player doesn't stop progress. Some think I can find an upside or spin anything but the simple fact is our squad today is worth a lot more than 18 months ago.
If I have a worry it is not about Koc, Nego and the rest of the January 2014 "shipment". No, it's that Igor won't rediscover his form of the first 10-12 games of last season. That was a big wedge and he is probably on a sizeable contract. The irony is that if he does play well then bids will come in for him and they won't be £3.5M!
In summary I am resigned to us selling top players because that appears to be part of the plan to fund the club. And it may also be part of the recruitment strategy as NLA puts it so well: If we treat young players and European players well then more will come to us. More agents will deal with us - people may not be aware but Lepoint's agent also manages Bia at Liege and Jelle Vossen who rumour has it we tried to sign. As long as we can continue to recruit decent players like we did last summer then I really don't see the problem.
For sure some will be upset with the churn and question the ambition of the club, but if we can start our first game in August with a team which is better than Brentford away last time then it works for me.
I don't want him to leave I am gutted that he will go before we get to see the best of him but this could have been a hell of a lot worse if either party had acted differently speaks volumes about the lad and his family , and from what I can see the club have acted in a perfectly acceptable Manor and tried to achieve the best they could , especially as he signed the extension last season based on the offer and promises made to him
Just thought it should be pointed out that spurs are signing Burnley's right back kieren trippier for £3.5 million. He is 24 (great age for a fb), has played in the championship for a few years and has had a very good season for burnley in the PL. Therefore if we are getting £3.5m for an 18yr old with 25 championship games to his name...i think we have done very well
We all know we are way the food chain and don't need to go on any more about that
It's just gutting we are losing these players when they have played so few games. Joe Gomez is an absolute Rolls Royce of a footballer and to my eyes a lot better than Callum Chambers who is comparable in terms of age and the positions he plays
I have done valley gold for years and whilst I'm happy the academy is getting players into the first team I'd like to see us keep hold of a few for longer.
Southampton Got 16 million for Calum Chambers who was a reserve full back for Southampton behind Shaw and Clyne.(calum was 19 at the time) Cafc should tell the fans what the add on's are.
I think 3.5M is poor unless the add on are superb ,which i doubt. Are we saying Gomez is a special talent or not ? 3.5 says not.
If we can get between £3.5M and £6M for Gomez then I think it could be a great deal for the club.
Not because I think the fee is any good but because IF RD really has a policy based purely on bringing through kids to sell and turn a profit, then selling our best for 30 years for an amount that covers somewhere between 40% and 80% of our yearly loss surely shows this up to be the absolute fantasy that it is.
The only way to make an IRR in football is to get promotion, anything else and you are just pissing your money into a never ending hole.
Ps. Some of the digs against Poyet on here seem odd. What did he do differently to Gomez?
Comments
The way I see it, if we sell Joe Gomez for £10m, and try to buy a replacement, our ability to haggle with other clubs isnt going to be as strong because if we bid £500k for a Defender, their club could instantly turn round and say, no we want £2m for him, come on, we know you can afford it because you'll still have £8m left from the Gomez sale etc...
I'd say the figure mentioned is not too far off the truth
Surely by growing our own youngsters and generating cash flow into the club when they move on is how a club our size will be stable and secure,
If the money subsequently didn't get reinvested into cafc then your 100% correct
Doesn't make it the right view I could be totally wrong in that opinion and that as has been mentioned above, fans pay their money to support the club and as part of that commitment they deserve to know the ins and outs of every thing that happens within the club
Your assumptions about Zaha are just that. The facts are though, that Palace's handling of Zaha have been an outstanding success for the club and its fans. They are stripy but they are no longer mugs, and it might be high time we got our heads out of our asses and acknowledged that.
Your objections to a loan back clause in the contracts simply would not apply had the buying club been Arsenal or Chelsea, would they? As for whether or not it benefits him, well Jimmy Stone seems to think that he would have been happy to stay here another season, one way or another, and he seems to have as good links to the players as you do. Not to dismiss your insight, but I have no idea whether you have greater insights than Jimmy Stone on this one.
We have always been a selling club re our young players of course. What has changed is the ridiculous imbalance between the FAPL and the rest. They are hoovering up young players almost indiscriminately because they can. They see who works, and those that don't get thrown out. Look at Chelsea. If it goes on this way (i.e players being sold before they've even completed a full season) then virtually every good young player will be on the books of the Big Four, and farmed out to clubs like us on loan on their whims. Another way in which the bond between clubs and their fans will be broken.
So the point is that in the past we at least got a couple of season or more out of the likes of Bowyer and Parker before bowing to market forces. We need to strengthen our contracts with our best young players so that we get to see them in the first team for at least one season. When they are sold before people have had a chance to enjoy their talents, that is when Valley Gold becomes completely undermined. It's absurd to suggest that Joe Gomez has nothing to gain from staying another season with us. He has to gain a virtual guaranteed first team slot in a team he knows and which might even challenge for promotion. If that would not benefit him, then why do FAPL clubs loan out so many players to Championship or League One sides.
I'm not blaming Joe Gomez. I'm blaming our failure to get to grips with the current market and behaviour of FAPL clubs.
Gomez has played one more game for CAFC than Poyet.
For me yes I support cafc over every player or manager, but I also feel that if I was signing Joe for a club or representing him in this move I would strongly advise him against being loaned back to any club that I had signed him from,
If we are to develop young players from the local area and be a club that these kids want to come to and their families wish to be the club of choice then we need to demonstrate not only great coaching and first team opportunity, but that we do not just see the child as a cash cow and only be interested in what we can get from it,
You yourself have raised a fair concern on the impact of West ham and the Olympic stadium and as a result I would feel that they will be seen even if more attractive for families whose kids have potential,
However for us to not lose numerous youngsters to them if we are seen as a club who can develop, look after and get into the first team when ready, and not stand in the way of their future development, by not putting obstacles in the way of any future moves with clauses and conditions that don't benefit all, and weigh heavily on one side
I am sure Joe wouldn't mind staying for another year, and there is nothing stopping him doing that by requesting to have a further 12 months extension to his current deal, he has not asked for that publicly or has it ever been rumoured, so words are very easily said to placate a situation or conversation
The biggest story of it all will be where the money goes once he is sold, and we may not find out the amount until accounts are filed but the information will come out in the end and we will either have a right to fell outrage or satisfied in the deal being beneficial to us in all ways
As for Zaha he didn't and couldn't settle, he was not half the player in training or stature in Manchester, how much of that was due to moyes and the leaving of fergie, will never really get out, but as a player he has not reached the heights he could by returning to the stripey mugs
Our track record is poor over the years, doesn't sound like we played hardball,
so just bullshit that Arsenal and Man city were interested as well.
With Parker we were a prem outfit so it was beneficial to him to stay here and with bowyer he came obscurity to first team after being released by George graham early in his career
Joe gomez has been the worst kept secret in youth football, he has had people sniffing since very young and is not comparible to any player we have had in the past with the exception of maybe defoe and we all know what happened there
I would point out that the club is also funded by TV Media deals, sponsors, loans from the owner* and player sales.
*loans from the owner are only ever repaid if he/they run the club successfully and can sell the club at a profit. Ask Simon jordan or his predecessor
The TV companies get their money back through advertising and subscriptions and they certainly have a big voice in the game - just look at FFP loss limits doubling because the FAPL and their backers wanted clubs to spend more. Even though FFP was starting to bite and, I believe, was making thedivision more competitive.
Unfortunately our contribution as fans is a smaller slice of the pie these days and I suspect there is an assumption that most of us will always show up come rain or shine. We can discuss matters about the club but I'm not sure the board and management are going to take us back to the 90s. Especially when I read some of the views and judgements made by some fans on here!
Bringing this back on topic, I welcome the fact that we were able to sign Joe Gomez up last year and that if he goes it helps the clubs finances. I want us to get better every window and think that selling the odd player doesn't stop progress. Some think I can find an upside or spin anything but the simple fact is our squad today is worth a lot more than 18 months ago.
If I have a worry it is not about Koc, Nego and the rest of the January 2014 "shipment". No, it's that Igor won't rediscover his form of the first 10-12 games of last season. That was a big wedge and he is probably on a sizeable contract. The irony is that if he does play well then bids will come in for him and they won't be £3.5M!
In summary I am resigned to us selling top players because that appears to be part of the plan to fund the club. And it may also be part of the recruitment strategy as NLA puts it so well: If we treat young players and European players well then more will come to us. More agents will deal with us - people may not be aware but Lepoint's agent also manages Bia at Liege and Jelle Vossen who rumour has it we tried to sign. As long as we can continue to recruit decent players like we did last summer then I really don't see the problem.
For sure some will be upset with the churn and question the ambition of the club, but if we can start our first game in August with a team which is better than Brentford away last time then it works for me.
We all know we are way the food chain and don't need to go on any more about that
It's just gutting we are losing these players when they have played so few games. Joe Gomez is an absolute Rolls Royce of a footballer and to my eyes a lot better than Callum Chambers who is comparable in terms of age and the positions he plays
I have done valley gold for years and whilst I'm happy the academy is getting players into the first team I'd like to see us keep hold of a few for longer.
Cafc should tell the fans what the add on's are.
I think 3.5M is poor unless the add on are superb ,which i doubt.
Are we saying Gomez is a special talent or not ?
3.5 says not.
Not because I think the fee is any good but because IF RD really has a policy based purely on bringing through kids to sell and turn a profit, then selling our best for 30 years for an amount that covers somewhere between 40% and 80% of our yearly loss surely shows this up to be the absolute fantasy that it is.
The only way to make an IRR in football is to get promotion, anything else and you are just pissing your money into a never ending hole.
Ps. Some of the digs against Poyet on here seem odd. What did he do differently to Gomez?