I live too far to attend and I am not a member of the trust but would still like some input and hear of the meeting, seeing that I have supported Charlton for nearly 70 years and was a season ticket holder for many years
It is an open meeting open to all , regardless of wether you are a trust member. You could write to :CAS Trust, c/o The Beehive, 365 Footscray Road, London SE9 2DR or email your question to secretary@castrust.org
Congratulations on supporting the club for 70 years,
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
- gets the CE-Ho to tell us we "need to accept" that it's Roland's Way.
Really is that the level you are going to, playground name calling?
To be Franck - I am sorry but you appear to be "prejudging" the whole event.
You are of course entitled to your view. However whether you agree or disagree with other peoples views the idea that people should not gather together to identify whether there is a common ground for making representations to the club, how such representations might be made and what other course of action maybe appropriate is as "inappropriate" as the reply from Katrien Meire.
I can but suggest the best way to allay your fears is indeed to attend the proposed meeting. Who knows you may actually be right but to argue because no such gatherings had been deemed necessary on other occasions is hardly valid if people feel it is now appropriate.
In any event I suggest whatever your opinion of Mr Murray he has regularly made himself available to supporters. As far as MS & TJ were concerned it was a matter of public record they were actively looking to sell the club. They had published a prospectus for interested parties.
I am no great proponent of the Trust and was very critical of the actions of G21 but I can but support a call for unity.
I have been a strong supporter of the Duchatelet regime and remain supportive of his vision for a successful and financially viable club. However the manner in which he and his appointed executive have chosen to implement their plan to achieve it has been shown to be increasingly problematic. No one is suggesting for one moment it is an easy task but the events of recent weeks clearly indicate all is not well.
I can never recall any UK or US CEO I ever worked with ever refusing to meet any representation from any "stakeholder". Actually in the US in terms of public perception most went out of their way to do precisely the opposite.
Even if you have nothing to say, the very least you can do is listen to what they have to say. Indeed it can only be in your interest to field people views and concerns.
I am trying very hard to be fair and reasonable. People make mistakes. People get things wrong. There is however absolutely no excuse to refuse to meet anyone.
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
- interfered in player selection - sacked Chris Powell for standing up for his right to pick the side - sold our top scorer when we were desperate for goals - failed to show loyalty to the man he brought in to keep us up, very probably because he picked Powell's side to get us out of trouble against Mein Fuhrer's wishes - promised supporter dialogue in the close season but fail to engage - failed to back Bob Peeters need for midfield and striking support to help us maintain early season momentum. - sacked Peeters and then appoints his out-of-work Coach hours after getting his CE-Ho to laughably tell us about twenty applicants, interviews and an exhaustive search etc a Coach who has history with at least several of our team. - gets the CE-Ho to tell us we "need to accept" that it's Roland's Way. - fails to take impending relegation battle seriously by not investing in the January window - reappoints Riga at SL, a man deemed not good enough to continue at Charlton - a man still refusing to expand on his Network ideas which make increasingly less sense in practice and which holed below-the waterline without a fully functioning FFP - on top of this, we have increasingly less player continuity and four managers in 12 months - it's all temporary tinkering, not a strategy or a plan - all of the above which has fans threatening not to renew season tickets in droves and the biggest lack of interest since the late 7O's
Thanks for taking the time but ...... >the large majority of that is player performance & manager recruitment related. >a large part is hearsay >communication?? Could be better but do you think many of the other 91 league clubs do better on this? >fans apathy is a worry re future attendance but that is in our hands not RDs and I say again, better results would take care of that
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
Let's look at season ticket renewals then. Let's say we currently have 9,500.
How many do you predict next season in a) the Championship or b) League One?
I fully expect, no matter what division we are in, that ticket sales will be down and I feel that the negativity perpetrated on this site Will have contributed to it
Nothing to do with the abysmal communication, inadequate squad, revolving door player management, zero organisational leadership and a complete lack of any realistic narrative about what they are trying to achieve then? All the fault of fans for discussing these things.
There are various ways you can run a football club, but if you make no effort to get buy-in from supporters and treat them as passive units who are simply to accept whatever you do, you had better get it right on the pitch. Duchatelet hasn't and so far shows no sign of even comprehending the damage being done to people's loyalty to the club.
But to measure that effect we need to talk numbers. The support has always been more resilient than people expect in the past, so I suspect we are currently looking at 6-7,000 season tickets in the Championship and maybe 4-5,000 in League One, assuming no price increases. We had 11,000 in 2012/13.
The main reason RD believes in bringing young players in will be because they are cheap, probably just like Katrien Meire. But if they can't do the job it is a false economy. You couldn't have a better example of the heart being ripped out than the many long-serving committed fans who are on the brink of walking away. And it is not just a Charlton Life or internet phenomenon.
Finally, if people think what is publicly known about what is happening at the club is worrying they should hear some of the stories coming out of the training ground now under Luzon. I don't know how true they are so I won't bring them here, but if they are they would shake some of the more complacent responses I'm certain.
We can stand back and let it happen or we can try to do something about it. Each to his or her own, but I say we fight it.
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
- interfered in player selection - sacked Chris Powell for standing up for his right to pick the side - sold our top scorer when we were desperate for goals - failed to show loyalty to the man he brought in to keep us up, very probably because he picked Powell's side to get us out of trouble against Mein Fuhrer's wishes - promised supporter dialogue in the close season but fail to engage - failed to back Bob Peeters need for midfield and striking support to help us maintain early season momentum. - sacked Peeters and then appoints his out-of-work Coach hours after getting his CE-Ho to laughably tell us about twenty applicants, interviews and an exhaustive search etc a Coach who has history with at least several of our team. - gets the CE-Ho to tell us we "need to accept" that it's Roland's Way. - fails to take impending relegation battle seriously by not investing in the January window - reappoints Riga at SL, a man deemed not good enough to continue at Charlton - a man still refusing to expand on his Network ideas which make increasingly less sense in practice and which holed below-the waterline without a fully functioning FFP - on top of this, we have increasingly less player continuity and four managers in 12 months - it's all temporary tinkering, not a strategy or a plan - all of the above which has fans threatening not to renew season tickets in droves and the biggest lack of interest since the late 7O's
Thanks for taking the time but ...... >the large majority of that is player performance & manager recruitment related. >a large part is hearsay >communication?? Could be better but do you think many of the other 91 league clubs do better on this? >fans apathy is a worry re future attendance but that is in our hands not RDs and I say again, better results would take care of that
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
So you think we're doing ok? You think RD is implementing a 'winning formula'. Righto, thanks for making that clear
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
Let's look at season ticket renewals then. Let's say we currently have 9,500.
How many do you predict next season in a) the Championship or b) League One?
I fully expect, no matter what division we are in, that ticket sales will be down and I feel that the negativity perpetrated on this site Will have contributed to it
Nothing to do with the abysmal communication, inadequate squad, revolving door player management, zero organisational leadership and a complete lack of any realistic narrative about what they are trying to achieve then? All the fault of fans for discussing these things.
There are various ways you can run a football club, but if you make no effort to get buy-in from supporters and treat them as passive units who are simply to accept whatever you do, you had better get it right on the pitch. Duchatelet hasn't and so far shows no sign of even comprehending the damage being done to people's loyalty to the club.
But to measure that effect we need to talk numbers. The support has always been more resilient than people expect in the past, so I suspect we are currently looking at 6-7,000 season tickets in the Championship and maybe 4-5,000 in League One, assuming no price increases. We had 11,000 in 2012/13.
The main reason RD believes in bringing young players in will be because they are cheap, probably just like Katrien Meire. But if they can't do the job it is a false economy. You couldn't have a better example of the heart being ripped out than the many long-serving committed fans who are on the brink of walking away. And it is not just a Charlton Life or internet phenomenon.
Finally, if people think what is publicly known about what is happening at the club is worrying they should hear some of the stories coming out of the training ground now under Luzon. I don't know how true they are so I won't bring them here, but if they are they would shake some of the more complacent responses I'm certain.
We can stand back and let it happen or we can try to do something about it. Each to his or her own, but I say we fight it.
How will I be able to recognise other lifers and know who to sit with? I'd quite like to put a face to some names but I'm pretty sure the likes of @ValleyGary doesn't look like a snail and @MrLargo isn't a despicable looking villan I for one don't look anything like Steve Claridge, so if anyone thinks they're going to meet someone with 907,548 clubs and 147 goals then they'll be mightily disappointed.
In all serious well done to the Trust for suggesting and mobilising it. I hope to be there
I keep hearing about Roland's way and I realise it is total dog shit but I'm of an age where it reminds me of simpler times on a Sunday night when I used to hum along to Howard's Way before prank calling Clive R on RTM. Aaah those were the days.
This is excellent news and facilitating this meeting is precisely what the Trust should be doing. I see no conceivable downside and a large turnout and a concerted response from supporters (whatever form that takes) will convey the current strength of feeling.
It will be very difficult to try and persuade RD to modify his approach but we have a choice: we can either sit on our collective arse and wring our hands about what's happening to the club or try and do something about it.
Get fliers circulated at the Brentford game advertising the date and venue.
Would be more than happy to assist in the handing out of these, as I'm sure many others would be.
A good and positive move by the trust IMO. There will always be those who think that this is over the top, that's to be predicted because of the discussions on here over the past few days on the "for or against" Duchatalet debate.
I am sitting on the fence with my own opinion about him, I recognise what he has done for the infrastructure of the club (despite it being necessary) and also some of the quality players that he has brought in. However the whole saga of getting the right man to manage coach this football team (something I still feel we haven't done) has been one of a long list of shambles, including leaving the squad short.
The general apathy of Charlton fans is deeply concerning. For me, the buzz of attending match days outweighs the politics and I will always travel home and away (stupidly) to watch the the team because I love watching the guys in red and white play football, despite feeling slightly disillusioned by what is happening higher up in the club.
But then again I'm a young fan, and I haven't had the financial investment in the club that those older than me might have had and I also wasn't around for the "Back To The Valley" campaign, so those may be reasons why I am feeling less down about the club than others? I don't have that apathy because I didn't have to fight to get our identity ... it was already there? Just thinking out loud.
I do not blame those who wish to vote with their feet though, I more than understand why ... it's an individual thing for each person. That's why I think that this is a good idea because I don't want to be sitting in sub 10k crowds at The Valley because everyone has lost the will to live with Duchatalet.
How will I be able to recognise other lifers and know who to sit with? I'd quite like to put a face to some names but I'm pretty sure the likes of @ValleyGary doesn't look like a snail and @MrLargo isn't a despicable looking villan I for one don't look anything like Steve Claridge, so if anyone thinks they're going to meet someone with 907,548 clubs and 147 goals then they'll be mightily disappointed.
In all serious well done to the Trust for suggesting and mobilising it. I hope to be there
My ex frequently told me I was a despicable villain or words to that effect!
Anyway, if you meet a bloke who looks like a cross between Dolph Lundgren and Jimmy Somerville then that's probably me, based on what some of my less witty friends tell me.
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
- interfered in player selection - sacked Chris Powell for standing up for his right to pick the side - sold our top scorer when we were desperate for goals - failed to show loyalty to the man he brought in to keep us up, very probably because he picked Powell's side to get us out of trouble against Mein Fuhrer's wishes - promised supporter dialogue in the close season but fail to engage - failed to back Bob Peeters need for midfield and striking support to help us maintain early season momentum. - sacked Peeters and then appoints his out-of-work Coach hours after getting his CE-Ho to laughably tell us about twenty applicants, interviews and an exhaustive search etc a Coach who has history with at least several of our team. - gets the CE-Ho to tell us we "need to accept" that it's Roland's Way. - fails to take impending relegation battle seriously by not investing in the January window - reappoints Riga at SL, a man deemed not good enough to continue at Charlton - a man still refusing to expand on his Network ideas which make increasingly less sense in practice and which holed below-the waterline without a fully functioning FFP - on top of this, we have increasingly less player continuity and four managers in 12 months - it's all temporary tinkering, not a strategy or a plan - all of the above which has fans threatening not to renew season tickets in droves and the biggest lack of interest since the late 7O's
Thanks for taking the time but ...... >the large majority of that is player performance & manager recruitment related. >a large part is hearsay >communication?? Could be better but do you think many of the other 91 league clubs do better on this? >fans apathy is a worry re future attendance but that is in our hands not RDs and I say again, better results would take care of that
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
So you think we're doing ok? You think RD is implementing a 'winning formula'. Righto, thanks for making that clear
Doing ok / winning....... Again just performance related. Nothing heart ripping then?? But crack on!
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
As someone who supports this meeting, let me try and sincerely explain a few things.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can assure you I am not particularly hysterical right now. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Depressingly, I've found myself becoming increasingly apathetic the more it feels like the people in charge of Charlton aren't showing it the care it deserves.
Perhaps it's just me who feels that way, but looking around this forum, I'd bet that it's not.
I have wrestled with the pros and cons of Duchatelet's regime on my blog and in columns for the South London Press for a year. Anyone who has read either will know I have written positively about many aspects of his ownership.
I've continually tried to be as objective and as rational as possible. I still am. But I am still to be convinced of the merits of the structure and philosophy now in place at the club. In fact, I often struggle to see one at all.
Sure, "encouraging youth" is a nice sentiment but what does that mean exactly? Are we imposing a top-down, long-term, philosophy on our youth teams? Is there a set out pathway from academy to first team? Or is it more of a case that young = cheap? We still have no idea who scouts our players or who identifies targets! As for the managers being changed to find a winning formula, I really would love to believe it was that simple.
On top of all that, I have been made to feel continually uneasy from the testimony both on record and relayed to me in private from those who have worked under the current ownership. In that time we've gone on losing streaks, unbeaten streaks, been smashed and beaten big teams with brilliant performances.
Personally, I feel that in the past month the attitude and aptitude of the current regime has been driven into sharper focus than ever before. And I don't like what I see. I'm currently incredibly skeptical it's healthy for our long-term future. And hence I think the chance to discuss that with other fans (many of whom may disagree!) is a good thing. Again, I'd wager most who would want to attend such meeting would say something similar. I don't think anyone is going to go to protest against our draw with Rotherham....
You may disagree with everything I've said. That's fine. We may both change our opinions somewhere down the line.
But in the meantime, please don't dismiss my thoughts about the current direction of Charlton as "hysteria" based on a few disappointing results. Nothing could be further from the truth.
People worry about the meeting being publicised to most if not all fans. This thread has gone from 700 hits to 4,700 since 6pm. This site is used by approximately one third of the fan base. The trust site is used by c. 25% of the fan base. Half of the Trust audience do not use this site. So between the two web sites, the trust subscriber and twitter lists, the Trust can reach approximately half the fan base at the push of a button or two.
And it can even monitor the open rate and click rate on the thousands of emails it sends so the Trust board know precisely how many fans actually read the emails and the website.
It can also design surveys to ask thousands of fans what they think and want, not just the dedicated few who post on here.
Using the right headlines and key words guarantees 1,500 hits in a day or two for an article. So in just 18 months the Trust built the capability to reach thousands of fans electronically and ask them what they think.
The Trust launched in Bartrams with just under 100 fans. Within six months we ran a survey with 2,252 participants. Ironically that was promoted by the club management team under the old owners.
The new owner wants nothing to do with the Trust because of the threat posed by mass fan participation to his autocratic style. Quite ironic for someone claiming liberal credentials. He is actually more controlling than the previous owners and that says a lot.
If buying top forwards to arrest the slide in form and then build a team capable of play-off contention is obviously not on the agenda and if Riga was available but not appointed, then the paying customers deserve to be told Wtf is going on. Was Riga short listed and interviewed? If not, why not?
As others have stated, STTV and Liege are a lot further along their journey with RD and it doesn't look pretty. It's not a bumpy road, it's a freaking cul-de-sac with winning options ruled out and no vision statement.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that not even trying to return to the FAPL let alone succeeding will lead to the slow death of the club. And that's before a mass exodus should we get relegated. This last seven years rivals the Selhurst years as the worst period for attracting new fans. Keep that going and there will be more empty seats... Bright shiny new one but empty nonetheless.
On a different note, Katrien Meire doesn't talk to the Trust because she's been told not to. Any airtime she gave the Trust would legitimise it in the eyes of the fans and thus boost its credentials and membership. Duchatelet doesn't want a strong Trust because if the Trust shows the analysis and maturity it has exhibited this year then it can become a very powerful adversary making a robust case for a different approach.
To be specific, the Trust have not gone piling in and has waited for the transfer window to close and that game on Saturday. But they are not waiting for the inevitable down turn in season ticket sales to get involved.
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
Because the relationship between fans and club thrives on what happens on the pitch. This man clearly does not need football success at Charlton for his model to work. So what is there in that for fans. Players are brought in for the network not for Charlton. The three strikers bought in on Charlton's books then lent out on vey long loans is integral to his money making model. He is not in this for football success.
I think those three signings are simply mistakes and he's most likely losing money on them. Reza and Tucudean were poor signings by Standard Liege, so they were sent here to see if they could offer anything to us. As they didn't they are now out on loan and we may well be paying part of their wages, losing RD money on players that are offering nothing to his network.
The signing of Parzyszek just shows how badly RD and his people underestimated the Championship when they came in. He's now on loan at another network club so RD is still paying his wages, it's not making him any money and playing in the Belgian 2nd tier (rather than the Dutch 2nd tier) won't increase his value in any significant way.
The network idea might have worked with a better choice of clubs. Watford have had and still have a chance of promotion under their ownership. Udinese are in Serie A and have a very successful scouting network, while Granada are in the top tier in Spain.
Instead we're in a network in which the clubs and leagues they play in aren't really comparable. All except Standard Liege have much smaller attendances and play in smaller leagues, I don't see the potential for much success when it comes to moving players between us and these clubs. As for Standard Liege we've seen their reserves generally aren't suitable for Championship football.
Going back to suggestions from others that the concerns are simply due to our league position, if we were in the top 6 it would be partly due to RD understanding the Championship and investing enough to build a strong enough squad. The lack of investment in the transfer window suggests he still underestimates this division.
I wanted to see what happened in January to get an idea of where we're heading. A year on from Kermorgant going he still hasn't been replaced. Our recent signings are mainly short term and of questionable quality/suitability and there are still other gaps/weaknesses in a squad that is one of the lowest scoring in English football. We've also seen how head coaches are moved around in a similar way to players, I can see RD continuing to change head coaches regularly in the hope that he finds one that can bring success on the pitch with the limited budget he'll provide for the squad. None of this fits with the suggestion from Katrien that we want a head coach for the long term. Regularly changing head coaches, players and therefore also playing style is also not ideal for bringing through academy players. Just look at the way Peeters wanted ball playing defenders (part of the reason we let Morrison go) Luzon wants to be more direct (a few weeks later we bring in an 'old fashioned English centre back').
I'm now concerned he wants to prove his ideas can work, even if it means there's a big possibility that we're relegated at the end of the season (and it won't be cheaper to run a club of our size, with our stadium and other costs in League One). He has the money and I think the patience to keep all network clubs running even if it means a few more years of relegation battles and falling attendances, while players and coaches are moved around more in hope than anything. Investment doesn't need to be multi-million pound signings, but enough to give the head coach he puts in charge a proper chance of making some progress.
The heart might have not been ripped out yet but we're bleeding and a few plasters isn't going to make it all better. I don't live locally but I'm behind this, I'm pleased others are getting something going now rather than just waiting to see how things turn out. RD has owned the club for over a year now. Last year despite some of his decisions I could give him time to implement his plans and perhaps learn from some of his mistakes. A year on I think if we continue like this we might be in a similar position next year in a lower division.
Actually the unwillingess to engage with the trust as anythig other than unpaid marketing team is what makes me feel that RD is mistaken in his attitude towards our club. Can we stop referring to him as a "socialist" or "liberal" now, please?
How will I be able to recognise other lifers and know who to sit with? I'd quite like to put a face to some names but I'm pretty sure the likes of @ValleyGary doesn't look like a snail and @MrLargo isn't a despicable looking villan I for one don't look anything like Steve Claridge, so if anyone thinks they're going to meet someone with 907,548 clubs and 147 goals then they'll be mightily disappointed.
In all serious well done to the Trust for suggesting and mobilising it. I hope to be there
My ex frequently told me I was a despicable villain or words to that effect!
Anyway, if you meet a bloke who looks like a cross between Dolph Lundgren and Jimmy Somerville then that's probably me, based on what some of my less witty friends tell me.
How will I be able to recognise other lifers and know who to sit with? I'd quite like to put a face to some names but I'm pretty sure the likes of @ValleyGary doesn't look like a snail and @MrLargo isn't a despicable looking villan I for one don't look anything like Steve Claridge, so if anyone thinks they're going to meet someone with 907,548 clubs and 147 goals then they'll be mightily disappointed.
In all serious well done to the Trust for suggesting and mobilising it. I hope to be there
My ex frequently told me I was a despicable villain or words to that effect!
Anyway, if you meet a bloke who looks like a cross between Dolph Lundgren and Jimmy Somerville then that's probably me, based on what some of my less witty friends tell me.
How will I be able to recognise other lifers and know who to sit with? I'd quite like to put a face to some names but I'm pretty sure the likes of @ValleyGary doesn't look like a snail and @MrLargo isn't a despicable looking villan I for one don't look anything like Steve Claridge, so if anyone thinks they're going to meet someone with 907,548 clubs and 147 goals then they'll be mightily disappointed.
In all serious well done to the Trust for suggesting and mobilising it. I hope to be there
My ex frequently told me I was a despicable villain or words to that effect!
Anyway, if you meet a bloke who looks like a cross between Dolph Lundgren and Jimmy Somerville then that's probably me, based on what some of my less witty friends tell me.
Are you sure they said Jimmy Somerville?
I hope you're not implying it was another Jimmy?! I ain't that despicable!
Oh dear! I will attend, not to laugh in anyone's face (bed wetters or not) but to try and understand cos I just don't get it. All this "ripping the heart out ...." And "getting our club back" is just nonsense to me. It doesn't make sense as it has no foundation. And all the Belgian hating is bordering on racism (or at best xenophobia). For me it boils down to poor results/performances which has cast disillusionment over us after a solid start to the season. I'm sure some of you will argue otherwise but in your heart of hearts would you really be up in arms if we were still in the top six? I am damn sure a huge percentage wouldn't be.
You will never get it sadly. You just haven't got a clue.
Then give me an answer as to how a multi millionaire investor who believes in bringing through home grown players has "ripped out the heart if the club "
- interfered in player selection - sacked Chris Powell for standing up for his right to pick the side - sold our top scorer when we were desperate for goals - failed to show loyalty to the man he brought in to keep us up, very probably because he picked Powell's side to get us out of trouble against Mein Fuhrer's wishes - promised supporter dialogue in the close season but fail to engage - failed to back Bob Peeters need for midfield and striking support to help us maintain early season momentum. - sacked Peeters and then appoints his out-of-work Coach hours after getting his CE-Ho to laughably tell us about twenty applicants, interviews and an exhaustive search etc a Coach who has history with at least several of our team. - gets the CE-Ho to tell us we "need to accept" that it's Roland's Way. - fails to take impending relegation battle seriously by not investing in the January window - reappoints Riga at SL, a man deemed not good enough to continue at Charlton - a man still refusing to expand on his Network ideas which make increasingly less sense in practice and which holed below-the waterline without a fully functioning FFP - on top of this, we have increasingly less player continuity and four managers in 12 months - it's all temporary tinkering, not a strategy or a plan - all of the above which has fans threatening not to renew season tickets in droves and the biggest lack of interest since the late 7O's
Thanks for taking the time but ...... >the large majority of that is player performance & manager recruitment related. >a large part is hearsay >communication?? Could be better but do you think many of the other 91 league clubs do better on this? >fans apathy is a worry re future attendance but that is in our hands not RDs and I say again, better results would take care of that
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
There is so much more to a football club than results. Haven't we proved that in the past?
Surely this thread is not to discuss the Rd pro and against its to say aye or nay to attendance to give some form of info to allow the trust to book a room or function venue
The meeting is out there a date will be set and from now on surely the constant sniping should stop until this meeting is concluded
The one main aim for all fans is a healthy and united team on the pitch with a healthy bank balance to match
I'd attend but I am not in the UK that week so won't be able to
However I hope it goes well I hope all there are respectful of all points of view
I hope you get more than 100-200 people attending because if you don't I fear that the meeting won't be taken seriously by anyone at the club or those that don't believe the problem is as bad as some fear
Perhaps we need a thread where those who, for various reasons, will be unable to attend the meeting can digitally sign in to the meeting. That way it will be harder for RD and KM to argue that the fan base is not adequately represented.
Comments
You could write to :CAS Trust, c/o The Beehive, 365 Footscray Road, London SE9 2DR
or email your question to secretary@castrust.org
Congratulations on supporting the club for 70 years,
You are of course entitled to your view. However whether you agree or disagree with other peoples views the idea that people should not gather together to identify whether there is a common ground for making representations to the club, how such representations might be made and what other course of action maybe appropriate is as "inappropriate" as the reply from Katrien Meire.
I can but suggest the best way to allay your fears is indeed to attend the proposed meeting. Who knows you may actually be right but to argue because no such gatherings had been deemed necessary on other occasions is hardly valid if people feel it is now appropriate.
In any event I suggest whatever your opinion of Mr Murray he has regularly made himself available to supporters. As far as MS & TJ were concerned it was a matter of public record they were actively looking to sell the club. They had published a prospectus for interested parties.
I am no great proponent of the Trust and was very critical of the actions of G21 but I can but support a call for unity.
I have been a strong supporter of the Duchatelet regime and remain supportive of his vision for a successful and financially viable club. However the manner in which he and his appointed executive have chosen to implement their plan to achieve it has been shown to be increasingly problematic. No one is suggesting for one moment it is an easy task but the events of recent weeks clearly indicate all is not well.
I can never recall any UK or US CEO I ever worked with ever refusing to meet any representation from any "stakeholder". Actually in the US in terms of public perception most went out of their way to do precisely the opposite.
Even if you have nothing to say, the very least you can do is listen to what they have to say. Indeed it can only be in your interest to field people views and concerns.
I am trying very hard to be fair and reasonable. People make mistakes. People get things wrong. There is however absolutely no excuse to refuse to meet anyone.
It is CEO 101.
>the large majority of that is player performance & manager recruitment related.
>a large part is hearsay
>communication?? Could be better but do you think many of the other 91 league clubs do better on this?
>fans apathy is a worry re future attendance but that is in our hands not RDs and I say again, better results would take care of that
Nothing there that tells me RD is killing our club. Investment in the club has been made, youth is encouraged, players/managers have been changed in an effort to find a winning formula. All things that should be applauded in my view.
I sincerely worry that all this hysteria could become the very thing that does rip the heart out of the club and the true basis of that hysteria is because of poor results.
There are various ways you can run a football club, but if you make no effort to get buy-in from supporters and treat them as passive units who are simply to accept whatever you do, you had better get it right on the pitch. Duchatelet hasn't and so far shows no sign of even comprehending the damage being done to people's loyalty to the club.
But to measure that effect we need to talk numbers. The support has always been more resilient than people expect in the past, so I suspect we are currently looking at 6-7,000 season tickets in the Championship and maybe 4-5,000 in League One, assuming no price increases. We had 11,000 in 2012/13.
The main reason RD believes in bringing young players in will be because they are cheap, probably just like Katrien Meire. But if they can't do the job it is a false economy. You couldn't have a better example of the heart being ripped out than the many long-serving committed fans who are on the brink of walking away. And it is not just a Charlton Life or internet phenomenon.
Finally, if people think what is publicly known about what is happening at the club is worrying they should hear some of the stories coming out of the training ground now under Luzon. I don't know how true they are so I won't bring them here, but if they are they would shake some of the more complacent responses I'm certain.
We can stand back and let it happen or we can try to do something about it. Each to his or her own, but I say we fight it.
Ps Duchatelet out and take your toupee with you!
It will be very difficult to try and persuade RD to modify his approach but we have a choice: we can either sit on our collective arse and wring our hands about what's happening to the club or try and do something about it.
A good and positive move by the trust IMO. There will always be those who think that this is over the top, that's to be predicted because of the discussions on here over the past few days on the "for or against" Duchatalet debate.
I am sitting on the fence with my own opinion about him, I recognise what he has done for the infrastructure of the club (despite it being necessary) and also some of the quality players that he has brought in. However the whole saga of getting the right man to
managecoach this football team (something I still feel we haven't done) has been one of a long list of shambles, including leaving the squad short.The general apathy of Charlton fans is deeply concerning. For me, the buzz of attending match days outweighs the politics and I will always travel home and away (stupidly) to watch the the team because I love watching the guys in red and white play football, despite feeling slightly disillusioned by what is happening higher up in the club.
But then again I'm a young fan, and I haven't had the financial investment in the club that those older than me might have had and I also wasn't around for the "Back To The Valley" campaign, so those may be reasons why I am feeling less down about the club than others? I don't have that apathy because I didn't have to fight to get our identity ... it was already there? Just thinking out loud.
I do not blame those who wish to vote with their feet though, I more than understand why ... it's an individual thing for each person. That's why I think that this is a good idea because I don't want to be sitting in sub 10k crowds at The Valley because everyone has lost the will to live with Duchatalet.
Anyway, if you meet a bloke who looks like a cross between Dolph Lundgren and Jimmy Somerville then that's probably me, based on what some of my less witty friends tell me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can assure you I am not particularly hysterical right now. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Depressingly, I've found myself becoming increasingly apathetic the more it feels like the people in charge of Charlton aren't showing it the care it deserves.
Perhaps it's just me who feels that way, but looking around this forum, I'd bet that it's not.
I have wrestled with the pros and cons of Duchatelet's regime on my blog and in columns for the South London Press for a year. Anyone who has read either will know I have written positively about many aspects of his ownership.
I've continually tried to be as objective and as rational as possible. I still am. But I am still to be convinced of the merits of the structure and philosophy now in place at the club. In fact, I often struggle to see one at all.
Sure, "encouraging youth" is a nice sentiment but what does that mean exactly? Are we imposing a top-down, long-term, philosophy on our youth teams? Is there a set out pathway from academy to first team? Or is it more of a case that young = cheap? We still have no idea who scouts our players or who identifies targets! As for the managers being changed to find a winning formula, I really would love to believe it was that simple.
On top of all that, I have been made to feel continually uneasy from the testimony both on record and relayed to me in private from those who have worked under the current ownership. In that time we've gone on losing streaks, unbeaten streaks, been smashed and beaten big teams with brilliant performances.
Personally, I feel that in the past month the attitude and aptitude of the current regime has been driven into sharper focus than ever before. And I don't like what I see. I'm currently incredibly skeptical it's healthy for our long-term future. And hence I think the chance to discuss that with other fans (many of whom may disagree!) is a good thing. Again, I'd wager most who would want to attend such meeting would say something similar. I don't think anyone is going to go to protest against our draw with Rotherham....
You may disagree with everything I've said. That's fine. We may both change our opinions somewhere down the line.
But in the meantime, please don't dismiss my thoughts about the current direction of Charlton as "hysteria" based on a few disappointing results. Nothing could be further from the truth.
This thread has gone from 700 hits to 4,700 since 6pm. This site is used by approximately one third of the fan base. The trust site is used by c. 25% of the fan base. Half of the Trust audience do not use this site. So between the two web sites, the trust subscriber and twitter lists, the Trust can reach approximately half the fan base at the push of a button or two.
And it can even monitor the open rate and click rate on the thousands of emails it sends so the Trust board know precisely how many fans actually read the emails and the website.
It can also design surveys to ask thousands of fans what they think and want, not just the dedicated few who post on here.
Using the right headlines and key words guarantees 1,500 hits in a day or two for an article. So in just 18 months the Trust built the capability to reach thousands of fans electronically and ask them what they think.
The Trust launched in Bartrams with just under 100 fans. Within six months we ran a survey with 2,252 participants. Ironically that was promoted by the club management team under the old owners.
The new owner wants nothing to do with the Trust because of the threat posed by mass fan participation to his autocratic style. Quite ironic for someone claiming liberal credentials. He is actually more controlling than the previous owners and that says a lot.
If buying top forwards to arrest the slide in form and then build a team capable of play-off contention is obviously not on the agenda and if Riga was available but not appointed, then the paying customers deserve to be told Wtf is going on. Was Riga short listed and interviewed? If not, why not?
As others have stated, STTV and Liege are a lot further along their journey with RD and it doesn't look pretty. It's not a bumpy road, it's a freaking cul-de-sac with winning options ruled out and no vision statement.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that not even trying to return to the FAPL let alone succeeding will lead to the slow death of the club. And that's before a mass exodus should we get relegated. This last seven years rivals the Selhurst years as the worst period for attracting new fans. Keep that going and there will be more empty seats... Bright shiny new one but empty nonetheless.
On a different note, Katrien Meire doesn't talk to the Trust because she's been told not to. Any airtime she gave the Trust would legitimise it in the eyes of the fans and thus boost its credentials and membership. Duchatelet doesn't want a strong Trust because if the Trust shows the analysis and maturity it has exhibited this year then it can become a very powerful adversary making a robust case for a different approach.
To be specific, the Trust have not gone piling in and has waited for the transfer window to close and that game on Saturday. But they are not waiting for the inevitable down turn in season ticket sales to get involved.
The signing of Parzyszek just shows how badly RD and his people underestimated the Championship when they came in. He's now on loan at another network club so RD is still paying his wages, it's not making him any money and playing in the Belgian 2nd tier (rather than the Dutch 2nd tier) won't increase his value in any significant way.
The network idea might have worked with a better choice of clubs. Watford have had and still have a chance of promotion under their ownership. Udinese are in Serie A and have a very successful scouting network, while Granada are in the top tier in Spain.
Instead we're in a network in which the clubs and leagues they play in aren't really comparable. All except Standard Liege have much smaller attendances and play in smaller leagues, I don't see the potential for much success when it comes to moving players between us and these clubs. As for Standard Liege we've seen their reserves generally aren't suitable for Championship football.
Going back to suggestions from others that the concerns are simply due to our league position, if we were in the top 6 it would be partly due to RD understanding the Championship and investing enough to build a strong enough squad. The lack of investment in the transfer window suggests he still underestimates this division.
I wanted to see what happened in January to get an idea of where we're heading. A year on from Kermorgant going he still hasn't been replaced. Our recent signings are mainly short term and of questionable quality/suitability and there are still other gaps/weaknesses in a squad that is one of the lowest scoring in English football. We've also seen how head coaches are moved around in a similar way to players, I can see RD continuing to change head coaches regularly in the hope that he finds one that can bring success on the pitch with the limited budget he'll provide for the squad. None of this fits with the suggestion from Katrien that we want a head coach for the long term. Regularly changing head coaches, players and therefore also playing style is also not ideal for bringing through academy players. Just look at the way Peeters wanted ball playing defenders (part of the reason we let Morrison go) Luzon wants to be more direct (a few weeks later we bring in an 'old fashioned English centre back').
I'm now concerned he wants to prove his ideas can work, even if it means there's a big possibility that we're relegated at the end of the season (and it won't be cheaper to run a club of our size, with our stadium and other costs in League One). He has the money and I think the patience to keep all network clubs running even if it means a few more years of relegation battles and falling attendances, while players and coaches are moved around more in hope than anything. Investment doesn't need to be multi-million pound signings, but enough to give the head coach he puts in charge a proper chance of making some progress.
The heart might have not been ripped out yet but we're bleeding and a few plasters isn't going to make it all better. I don't live locally but I'm behind this, I'm pleased others are getting something going now rather than just waiting to see how things turn out. RD has owned the club for over a year now. Last year despite some of his decisions I could give him time to implement his plans and perhaps learn from some of his mistakes. A year on I think if we continue like this we might be in a similar position next year in a lower division.
There is so much more to a football club than results. Haven't we proved that in the past?
So why included in the 'kids of the network' picture
The meeting is out there a date will be set and from now on surely the constant sniping should stop until this meeting is concluded
The one main aim for all fans is a healthy and united team on the pitch with a healthy bank balance to match
I'd attend but I am not in the UK that week so won't be able to
However I hope it goes well I hope all there are respectful of all points of view
I hope you get more than 100-200 people attending because if you don't I fear that the meeting won't be taken seriously by anyone at the club or those that don't believe the problem is as bad as some fear