I can't see any good reason for it, and it probably winds up the neighbours.
Getting a bit off topic now, but really? You cannot imagine why Israel is in UEFA and think having them there is more inflammatory than their playing in qualifiers with Iraq, Iran and Syria?
Maybe they should be forced to play against their neighbours, maybe football can bring the divided peoples of the region together, TBH and Reza running on to the pitch together, the beautiful game bring peace as they realise how similar they are... Ok, perhaps not :-(
I've said that the only plausible explanation I can think of is a perceived need to meet the requirements of a work permit for Luzon as there was at least a chance of him being refused if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place. I'd be interested in your view?
.......an apparent 'selection' process – hence the announcement on Monday afternoon of a “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach” which then abruptly ended less than 12 hours later (possibly at Duchatelet's insistence) “late [Monday] evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite".
'.....recruitment' charade – hopes raised and then dashed and a widespread view that we were deceived and probably lied to.
If KM was responsible for either of these possible misjudgements then it might explain why she appeared so flustered at the press conference on Wednesday and why she seems to have been hung out to dry by Duchatelet to sort the mess out on her own?
'Apparent selection process'...'recruitment charade'..Really don't get this conspiracy theory.
Do you really think KM would have more than 1% input into the selection of the new coach or the process to make that selection? At the press conference she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate. When the appointment is made only hours after the press conference, making it quite clear that this 'search' did not take place, everyone labels her a liar. Rediculous. She knew that RD was consulting his football advisors about the new appointment and used the term 'search' to describe those consultations. Remember she is speaking in a foreign language - maybe a better term would have been 'we are looking to make an appointment soon'.
On the appointment itself I am much happier about it then the appointment of Peeters. I had heard of neither before but Peeters's record had nothing that could justify his appointment. This new guy seems to have a decent record, if very short, in the Belgium top division.
I'm not suggesting a 'conspiracy theory' – in this case as in most others I subscribe to a 'cock up' rather than 'conspiracy' interpretation, so I was speculating on the cause of that 'cock up' here.
However, most of what you say in your main paragraph is simply inaccurate. KM didn't use the word 'search' in any press conference where her use of a 'foreign language' might have caused misunderstanding it was the headline of an article on the OS on Monday afternoon: “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach”:
So your unnecessarily exaggerated suggestion that “she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate” is simply nonsense (in general it's not good practice to exaggerate somebody else's point of view to try to make it easier to argue against them).
The press conference actually took place on Wednesday to introduce the newly appointed Luzon, and KM was quizzed about his appointment:
Interviewer: Was Guy the only candidate considered for the job?*
KM: "As soon as we went live with the sacking of Bob Peeters [Sunday], within an hour I had 20 applications. So there were several candidates but by late evening [Monday] it became clear that Guy was the favourite."
*Was he the only manager you interviewed?*
"No."
So she was suggesting that the appointment of Luzon was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s) - not the outcome of some supposed 'consultation' by Duchatelet with 'his football advisors'.
The question I was attempting to answer was why did she feel it necessary to create this impression when they could have announced Luzon's appointment on Monday on the basis they needed to act quickly to replace Peeters (due to the club's league position, the transfer window etc), and he was immediately available (in fact already on Duchatelet's payroll)?
I can't see any good reason for it, and it probably winds up the neighbours.
Getting a bit off topic now, but really? You cannot imagine why Israel is in UEFA and think having them there is more inflammatory than their playing in qualifiers with Iraq, Iran and Syria?
Maybe they should be forced to play against their neighbours, maybe football can bring the divided peoples of the region together, TBH and Reza running on to the pitch together, the beautiful game bring peace as they realise how similar they are... Ok, perhaps not :-(
Believe the Arab nations refuse to play Israel rather than the other way round.
I can't see any good reason for it, and it probably winds up the neighbours.
Getting a bit off topic now, but really? You cannot imagine why Israel is in UEFA and think having them there is more inflammatory than their playing in qualifiers with Iraq, Iran and Syria?
Silly of me to forget the geo-political angle. Sorry. Back to topic..
I know it is shite but what do people seriously want to happen?
KM resigns for many good reasons none less than being shouted at on a train GL fails to get the job due to home office regs The new CEO thinks the train home is not an option - in metaphor terms when it comes to comms RD to fuck it all off and sell to the quickest bidder New owner comes in....... Peninsula?
I've said that the only plausible explanation I can think of is a perceived need to meet the requirements of a work permit for Luzon as there was at least a chance of him being refused if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place. I'd be interested in your view?
.......an apparent 'selection' process – hence the announcement on Monday afternoon of a “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach” which then abruptly ended less than 12 hours later (possibly at Duchatelet's insistence) “late [Monday] evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite".
'.....recruitment' charade – hopes raised and then dashed and a widespread view that we were deceived and probably lied to.
If KM was responsible for either of these possible misjudgements then it might explain why she appeared so flustered at the press conference on Wednesday and why she seems to have been hung out to dry by Duchatelet to sort the mess out on her own?
'Apparent selection process'...'recruitment charade'..Really don't get this conspiracy theory.
Do you really think KM would have more than 1% input into the selection of the new coach or the process to make that selection? At the press conference she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate. When the appointment is made only hours after the press conference, making it quite clear that this 'search' did not take place, everyone labels her a liar. Rediculous. She knew that RD was consulting his football advisors about the new appointment and used the term 'search' to describe those consultations. Remember she is speaking in a foreign language - maybe a better term would have been 'we are looking to make an appointment soon'.
On the appointment itself I am much happier about it then the appointment of Peeters. I had heard of neither before but Peeters's record had nothing that could justify his appointment. This new guy seems to have a decent record, if very short, in the Belgium top division.
I'm not suggesting a 'conspiracy theory' – in this case as in most others I subscribe to a 'cock up' rather than 'conspiracy' interpretation, so I was speculating on the cause of that 'cock up' here.
However, most of what you say in your main paragraph is simply inaccurate. KM didn't use the word 'search' in any press conference where her use of a 'foreign language' might have caused misunderstanding it was the headline of an article on the OS on Monday afternoon: “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach”:
So your unnecessarily exaggerated suggestion that “she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate” is simply nonsense (in general it's not good practice to exaggerate somebody else's point of view to try to make it easier to argue against them).
The press conference actually took place on Wednesday to introduce the newly appointed Luzon, and KM was quizzed about his appointment:
Interviewer: Was Guy the only candidate considered for the job?*
KM: "As soon as we went live with the sacking of Bob Peeters [Sunday], within an hour I had 20 applications. So there were several candidates but by late evening [Monday] it became clear that Guy was the favourite."
*Was he the only manager you interviewed?*
"No."
So she was suggesting that the appointment of Luzon was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s) - not the outcome of some supposed 'consultation' by Duchatelet with 'his football advisors'.
The question I was attempting to answer was why did she feel it necessary to create this impression when they could have announced Luzon's appointment on Monday on the basis they needed to act quickly to replace Peeters (due to the club's league position, the transfer window etc), and he was immediately available (in fact already on Duchatelet's payroll)?
As I said above, I skimmed through this thread to understand why people were claiming KM lied. Several posts seemed to imply KM said a search and selection process took place and expressed dissatisfaction when it was clear that it had not. OK, she did not say it but it was the word used on the OS. In general it is not good practice to ignore the essense of an argument and instead focus on minor inaccuracies in the detail of the argument.
You say you don't subscribe to the conpiracy theory. You subscribe to a 'cock up' theory. Yet, a few sentences later you state '.....she felt it necessary to create an impression'.
I am going to be very brief and to the point now because it is obvious, as you have been doing with KM's statements and other statements coming from the club, you are going to subject every word and sentence to a forensic analysis.
Do I think RD was ever going to appoint anyone from outside the 'network' or not known to the 'network'? NO.
Do I think Luzon was being lined up for the role weeks before the sacking? Probably.
When KM stated that they had 20 applications within hours of the sacking that implied, or was an attempt to give the impression, that a formal search and selection process would/had taken place? NO. She merely confirmed the fact of 20 unsolicited approaches/indications of interest.
Do I think KM had any input to the appointment of Luzon? NO. She has no football experience so why should she?
Do I think when KM said Luzon was not the only one interviewed she was suggesting, or trying to give the impression, the appointment was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)? NO.
This thing about Luzon being trusted and how can he be trusted because RD sacked him fro Liege. Didn't he only sack him because Liege fans rioted? He may still trust him.
Not defending the appointment and still think its disgraceful how he got the job over much more qualified people, but its possible Luzon would still be at Liege if the fans hadn't kicked off so much.
I've said that the only plausible explanation I can think of is a perceived need to meet the requirements of a work permit for Luzon as there was at least a chance of him being refused if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place. I'd be interested in your view?
.......an apparent 'selection' process – hence the announcement on Monday afternoon of a “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach” which then abruptly ended less than 12 hours later (possibly at Duchatelet's insistence) “late [Monday] evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite".
'.....recruitment' charade – hopes raised and then dashed and a widespread view that we were deceived and probably lied to.
If KM was responsible for either of these possible misjudgements then it might explain why she appeared so flustered at the press conference on Wednesday and why she seems to have been hung out to dry by Duchatelet to sort the mess out on her own?
'Apparent selection process'...'recruitment charade'..Really don't get this conspiracy theory.
Do you really think KM would have more than 1% input into the selection of the new coach or the process to make that selection? At the press conference she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate. When the appointment is made only hours after the press conference, making it quite clear that this 'search' did not take place, everyone labels her a liar. Rediculous. She knew that RD was consulting his football advisors about the new appointment and used the term 'search' to describe those consultations. Remember she is speaking in a foreign language - maybe a better term would have been 'we are looking to make an appointment soon'.
On the appointment itself I am much happier about it then the appointment of Peeters. I had heard of neither before but Peeters's record had nothing that could justify his appointment. This new guy seems to have a decent record, if very short, in the Belgium top division.
I'm not suggesting a 'conspiracy theory' – in this case as in most others I subscribe to a 'cock up' rather than 'conspiracy' interpretation, so I was speculating on the cause of that 'cock up' here.
However, most of what you say in your main paragraph is simply inaccurate. KM didn't use the word 'search' in any press conference where her use of a 'foreign language' might have caused misunderstanding it was the headline of an article on the OS on Monday afternoon: “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach”:
So your unnecessarily exaggerated suggestion that “she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate” is simply nonsense (in general it's not good practice to exaggerate somebody else's point of view to try to make it easier to argue against them).
The press conference actually took place on Wednesday to introduce the newly appointed Luzon, and KM was quizzed about his appointment:
Interviewer: Was Guy the only candidate considered for the job?*
KM: "As soon as we went live with the sacking of Bob Peeters [Sunday], within an hour I had 20 applications. So there were several candidates but by late evening [Monday] it became clear that Guy was the favourite."
*Was he the only manager you interviewed?*
"No."
So she was suggesting that the appointment of Luzon was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s) - not the outcome of some supposed 'consultation' by Duchatelet with 'his football advisors'.
The question I was attempting to answer was why did she feel it necessary to create this impression when they could have announced Luzon's appointment on Monday on the basis they needed to act quickly to replace Peeters (due to the club's league position, the transfer window etc), and he was immediately available (in fact already on Duchatelet's payroll)?
I am going to be very brief and to the point now because it is obvious, as you have been doing with KM's statements and other statements coming from the club, you are going to subject every word and sentence to a forensic analysis.
Do I think RD was ever going to appoint anyone from outside the 'network' or not known to the 'network'? NO.
Do I think Luzon was being lined up for the role weeks before the sacking? Probably.
When KM stated that they had 20 applications within hours of the sacking that implied, or was an attempt to give the impression, that a formal search and selection process would/had taken place? NO. She merely confirmed the fact of 20 unsolicited approaches/indications of interest.
Do I think KM had any input to the appointment of Luzon? NO. She has no football experience so why should she?
Do I think when KM said Luzon was not the only one interviewed she was suggesting, or trying to give the impression, the appointment was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)? NO.
Sorry I'm not 'going to subject your every word and sentence to a forensic analysis' as I'm getting rather tired of this. So I'll just briefly comment on your own answers to your own questions.
I completely agree with your answers to questions 1, 2 and 4.
On 3 and 5 KM is an experienced lawyer - not a fool. She would know and almost certainly intended that her statements would convey the impression that there been a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)?
If you think otherwise then you're either being disingenuous or you're naive.
I've said that the only plausible explanation I can think of is a perceived need to meet the requirements of a work permit for Luzon as there was at least a chance of him being refused if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place. I'd be interested in your view?
.......an apparent 'selection' process – hence the announcement on Monday afternoon of a “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach” which then abruptly ended less than 12 hours later (possibly at Duchatelet's insistence) “late [Monday] evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite".
'.....recruitment' charade – hopes raised and then dashed and a widespread view that we were deceived and probably lied to.
If KM was responsible for either of these possible misjudgements then it might explain why she appeared so flustered at the press conference on Wednesday and why she seems to have been hung out to dry by Duchatelet to sort the mess out on her own?
'Apparent selection process'...'recruitment charade'..Really don't get this conspiracy theory.
Do you really think KM would have more than 1% input into the selection of the new coach or the process to make that selection? At the press conference she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate. When the appointment is made only hours after the press conference, making it quite clear that this 'search' did not take place, everyone labels her a liar. Rediculous. She knew that RD was consulting his football advisors about the new appointment and used the term 'search' to describe those consultations. Remember she is speaking in a foreign language - maybe a better term would have been 'we are looking to make an appointment soon'.
On the appointment itself I am much happier about it then the appointment of Peeters. I had heard of neither before but Peeters's record had nothing that could justify his appointment. This new guy seems to have a decent record, if very short, in the Belgium top division.
I'm not suggesting a 'conspiracy theory' – in this case as in most others I subscribe to a 'cock up' rather than 'conspiracy' interpretation, so I was speculating on the cause of that 'cock up' here.
However, most of what you say in your main paragraph is simply inaccurate. KM didn't use the word 'search' in any press conference where her use of a 'foreign language' might have caused misunderstanding it was the headline of an article on the OS on Monday afternoon: “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach”:
So your unnecessarily exaggerated suggestion that “she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate” is simply nonsense (in general it's not good practice to exaggerate somebody else's point of view to try to make it easier to argue against them).
The press conference actually took place on Wednesday to introduce the newly appointed Luzon, and KM was quizzed about his appointment:
Interviewer: Was Guy the only candidate considered for the job?*
KM: "As soon as we went live with the sacking of Bob Peeters [Sunday], within an hour I had 20 applications. So there were several candidates but by late evening [Monday] it became clear that Guy was the favourite."
*Was he the only manager you interviewed?*
"No."
So she was suggesting that the appointment of Luzon was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s) - not the outcome of some supposed 'consultation' by Duchatelet with 'his football advisors'.
The question I was attempting to answer was why did she feel it necessary to create this impression when they could have announced Luzon's appointment on Monday on the basis they needed to act quickly to replace Peeters (due to the club's league position, the transfer window etc), and he was immediately available (in fact already on Duchatelet's payroll)?
I am going to be very brief and to the point now because it is obvious, as you have been doing with KM's statements and other statements coming from the club, you are going to subject every word and sentence to a forensic analysis.
Do I think RD was ever going to appoint anyone from outside the 'network' or not known to the 'network'? NO.
Do I think Luzon was being lined up for the role weeks before the sacking? Probably.
When KM stated that they had 20 applications within hours of the sacking that implied, or was an attempt to give the impression, that a formal search and selection process would/had taken place? NO. She merely confirmed the fact of 20 unsolicited approaches/indications of interest.
Do I think KM had any input to the appointment of Luzon? NO. She has no football experience so why should she?
Do I think when KM said Luzon was not the only one interviewed she was suggesting, or trying to give the impression, the appointment was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)? NO.
Sorry I'm not 'going to subject your every word and sentence to a forensic analysis' as I'm getting rather tired of this. So I'll just briefly comment on your own answers to your own questions.
I completely agree with your answers to questions 1, 2 and 4.
On 3 and 5 KM is an experienced lawyer - not a fool. She would know and almost certainly intended that her statements would convey the impression that there been a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)?
If you think otherwise then you're either being disingenuous or you're naive.
OK. At least we agree on some aspects of the whole saga.
When the witch-hunt is over and she resigns, it is encouraging to know that there are so many people (on here alone) that will do such a better job in the circumstances.
A somewhat daft comment. Are you really saying that you are not allowed an opinion unless you have qualifications to do the job? So maybe audience participation in Question time should be stopped as many of those would never be qualified to be PM !
KM was a work experience girl 4 years ago who has had a meteoric rise from RD and ended up as CEO of Charlton.
I don't doubt she is intelligent and capable in a text book way but for a young person to head over to another country and take on a prominent and key strategic role in a business that; by its nature, has more emotion running through its fans/customers than most is nigh on impossible. She is naive (as pretty much everyone of her age is). I am sure she will learn from all of this and be very successful.
No doubting that for RD she will have been a 'cheap' option.
Seems to me that RD likes to surround himself with what he considers to be young up and coming people. I think the reasons are probably because
a) they are cheap b) they feel grateful to have been given a leg up and will do exactly what they are told through fear of blowing their big chance.
Are newspapers supposed to publish, verbatim, the contents of what could easily be described as a private conversation?
If I'd had a conversation with my wife in a train I would be pretty angry if the local paper had published direct quotes of what I'd said!
so where do the SLP stand on this? The conversion has been filmed sneakily, without the consent of the participants of the conversation. No crime has been committed, so it isn't evidence that has been used in court etc.
As far as I'm aware, those involved in the video are within their rights to at a minimum have the video's removed from where they have been uploaded (Facebook and then Youtube), but a printed paper can't then retract that, can they?
Are newspapers supposed to publish, verbatim, the contents of what could easily be described as a private conversation?
If I'd had a conversation with my wife in a train I would be pretty angry if the local paper had published direct quotes of what I'd said!
It took place in what is very clearly a public place and in which both parties could reasonably expect to be overheard so no issues there.
I think Katrien would view that a touch differently
The question was about the rules journalists are supposed to follow, though. So was the answer. If KM made a formal complaint she'd get nowhere, which is what I mean. Whether she likes it or not is another matter.
"AFKABartram"> so where do the SLP stand on this? The conversion has been filmed sneakily, without the consent of the participants of the conversation. No crime has been committed, so it isn't evidence that has been used in court etc.
Comments
Ok, perhaps not :-(
However, most of what you say in your main paragraph is simply inaccurate. KM didn't use the word 'search' in any press conference where her use of a 'foreign language' might have caused misunderstanding it was the headline of an article on the OS on Monday afternoon: “Search under way for new Charlton Head Coach”:
http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/search-under-way-for-new-charlton-head-coach-2199269.aspx
So your unnecessarily exaggerated suggestion that “she used the word 'search' and everyone takes the absolute literal meaning of that word to infer that Charlton were going to embark on an exhaustive headhunt and selection process worthy of a multi national conglomerate” is simply nonsense (in general it's not good practice to exaggerate somebody else's point of view to try to make it easier to argue against them).
The press conference actually took place on Wednesday to introduce the newly appointed Luzon, and KM was quizzed about his appointment:
Interviewer: Was Guy the only candidate considered for the job?*
KM: "As soon as we went live with the sacking of Bob Peeters [Sunday], within an hour I had 20 applications. So there were several candidates but by late evening [Monday] it became clear that Guy was the favourite."
*Was he the only manager you interviewed?*
"No."
So she was suggesting that the appointment of Luzon was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s) - not the outcome of some supposed 'consultation' by Duchatelet with 'his football advisors'.
The question I was attempting to answer was why did she feel it necessary to create this impression when they could have announced Luzon's appointment on Monday on the basis they needed to act quickly to replace Peeters (due to the club's league position, the transfer window etc), and he was immediately available (in fact already on Duchatelet's payroll)?
When she was spoken too after shef utd at the services we were royally fukd off and she handled her self fantasticly
No one is above reproach, and it's only fair she faced the questions
There was no abuse or intimidating body language
Hats off too them both
Type?
Leaving the valley for the 3rd time ?
You say you don't subscribe to the conpiracy theory. You subscribe to a 'cock up' theory. Yet, a few sentences later you state '.....she felt it necessary to create an impression'.
I am going to be very brief and to the point now because it is obvious, as you have been doing with KM's statements and other statements coming from the club, you are going to subject every word and sentence to a forensic analysis.
Do I think RD was ever going to appoint anyone from outside the 'network' or not known to the 'network'?
NO.
Do I think Luzon was being lined up for the role weeks before the sacking?
Probably.
When KM stated that they had 20 applications within hours of the sacking that implied, or was an attempt to give the impression, that a formal search and selection process would/had taken place?
NO. She merely confirmed the fact of 20 unsolicited approaches/indications of interest.
Do I think KM had any input to the appointment of Luzon?
NO. She has no football experience so why should she?
Do I think when KM said Luzon was not the only one interviewed she was suggesting, or trying to give the impression, the appointment was the outcome of a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)?
NO.
Not defending the appointment and still think its disgraceful how he got the job over much more qualified people, but its possible Luzon would still be at Liege if the fans hadn't kicked off so much.
I completely agree with your answers to questions 1, 2 and 4.
On 3 and 5 KM is an experienced lawyer - not a fool. She would know and almost certainly intended that her statements would convey the impression that there been a 'selection process' that included interview(s) of other candidate(s)?
If you think otherwise then you're either being disingenuous or you're naive.
In which case the decision about his removal which I was informed about in the KP suite after the Brighton game was just a guess by CAFC staff?
If I'd had a conversation with my wife in a train I would be pretty angry if the local paper had published direct quotes of what I'd said!
As far as I'm aware, those involved in the video are within their rights to at a minimum have the video's removed from where they have been uploaded (Facebook and then Youtube), but a printed paper can't then retract that, can they?
Anyone know the score with this?
so where do the SLP stand on this? The conversion has been filmed sneakily, without the consent of the participants of the conversation. No crime has been committed, so it isn't evidence that has been used in court etc.
Who actually posted the clip in the first place?