I'd agree in that most people who sang it wouldn't think much of it. But enough who did would be the sort of people we don't want to class ourselves as. They sent want to hear it , we aren't neanderthals so we can sing something else. It doesn't seem to difficult to me.
Otherwise Jim Davidson would still be big on tv. And no-one wants that :-)
I'd agree in that most people who sang it wouldn't think much of it. But enough who did would be the sort of people we don't want to class ourselves as. They sent want to hear it , we aren't neanderthals so we can sing something else. It doesn't seem to difficult to me.
Otherwise Jim Davidson would still be big on tv. And no-one wants that :-)
No, we have to put up with 24 hours worth of TV that is so polished and clean all because people are obsessed with trying to find offence in the slightest thing.
And those people once they over step that line need to be dealt with and have no argument when dealt with and bombed out of football there has some elemant of poking fun at an area or a whole support base that can still be mocking or disengenuios but it doesn't have to be ruled out
I am a fat bastard and wouldn't care if that was sang at me as it is banter
Now if some one came to me and called me a fat bastard with venom and anger one on one then that's aggressive and inflamotory and i would deal with it in the manor that was required
It wouldn't be the same as the fans at cafc that used to see the fat bloke going for food in the old stle grounds and used to sing you fat bstd you fat bstd at him
Or when weds tango used to get it every time he was seen
We are in danger of making football a sterile and not tribal thing that it should never be
But tribal is us and millwall. Or us and a northern team etc etc. It's not us and gay people or black people or Catholics or Jews. Society is changing we just need to keep up. Away fans want to be separate and feel that. My spurs mate used to take the piss because we'd clap the away support and directors at the start. We don't want to be that welcoming. We don't want to be brummie fans spitting at away fans either or millwall fans offering out kids though. Somewhere a bit up the scale from rugby fans sitting together will do me fine.
You don't choose your race, colour or sexuality. And because it isn't a choice you have made you can't 'unchoose' it. And many people have been subjected to years of abuse, vitriol or isolation because of who they are.
With respect, being overweight is, on the whole, the result of a lifestyle choice. if you don't like being fat then you can change that. If you don't like being gay there is nothing you can do.
Ad the word 'banter' can excuse any wrongdoing, but it shouldn't focus on race or sexuality. 'Banter' is responsible for doing a lot of harm.
There are a hell of a lot of pansies on this site!
If you look at the culture as a whole in todays society, people are way to easily offended,
What annoys me most is people getting offended on other peoples behalf - i.e straight people getting offended by 'we can see you holding hands' when in fact gay people are probably not
Some sections of society take life way to seriously and should accept that in all walks of life, people will take the pisd out of each other - not to offend, but to joke, to be funny, to make others laugh. Its nature. If any of you have ever played a team sport you will know the amount of pisd taking in the dressing room is massive, but its a laugh, not serious. Im pretty sure brighton fans take the piss out of other teams fans and so they should. Was it them chanting 'dirty northen bastards' to us a couple of years back? (it may have been another south coast team)
Obviously there is a line, which most people in society adhere to. But for gods sake people, stop getting offended for no bloody reason
There are a hell of a lot of pansies on this site!
If you look at the culture as a whole in todays society, people are way to easily offended,
What annoys me most is people getting offended on other peoples behalf - i.e straight people getting offended by 'we can see you holding hands' when in fact gay people are probably not
Some sections of society take life way to seriously and should accept that in all walks of life, people will take the pisd out of each other - not to offend, but to joke, to be funny, to make others laugh. Its nature. If any of you have ever played a team sport you will know the amount of pisd taking in the dressing room is massive, but its a laugh, not serious. Im pretty sure brighton fans take the piss out of other teams fans and so they should. Was it them chanting 'dirty northen bastards' to us a couple of years back? (it may have been another south coast team)
Obviously there is a line, which most people in society adhere to. But for gods sake people, stop getting offended for no bloody reason
There are a hell of a lot of pansies on this site!
If you look at the culture as a whole in todays society, people are way to easily offended,
What annoys me most is people getting offended on other peoples behalf - i.e straight people getting offended by 'we can see you holding hands' when in fact gay people are probably not
Some sections of society take life way to seriously and should accept that in all walks of life, people will take the pisd out of each other - not to offend, but to joke, to be funny, to make others laugh. Its nature. If any of you have ever played a team sport you will know the amount of pisd taking in the dressing room is massive, but its a laugh, not serious. Im pretty sure brighton fans take the piss out of other teams fans and so they should. Was it them chanting 'dirty northen bastards' to us a couple of years back? (it may have been another south coast team)
Obviously there is a line, which most people in society adhere to. But for gods sake people, stop getting offended for no bloody reason
Top post, it is the people representing the so called minorities that stir all this crap up.
I'd agree in that most people who sang it wouldn't think much of it. But enough who did would be the sort of people we don't want to class ourselves as. They sent want to hear it , we aren't neanderthals so we can sing something else. It doesn't seem to difficult to me.
Otherwise Jim Davidson would still be big on tv. And no-one wants that :-)
Speak for yourself! I'd rather have JD presenting TV programmes rather than Vernon Kaye, Claudia Winkleman, Nick Knowles, John Barrowman, Holly Willouby, Paddy McGuinness or all the other new brigade without any personality or expertise with dealing with the public or "celebs". Whatever you may think of Jim, he was as good as Brucie or Monkhouse as a presenter.
My best mate is gay, hates football (what a stereotype!). I showed him this thread and he couldnt believe just how OTT (his words) it was. But we both agreed it was subjective so who can say they are right? To some its banter, to others deep offense. For what its worth he said holding hands songs etc were mild, but once it stepped up to AIDS stuff etc it would be mindless and abusive. We both agreed that the world has gone pc mad and that soon prison sentences would be commonplace for verbal "abuse". The world has changed judicially and is dragging football that way too. Big Brother society approaches, tow the line, or pay the consequences....
Who on here would choose to be gay or if they had their life again would wish to be born gay?
If not, why not?
I've read through this entire thread. As usual, some intelligent, informed debate, some wind-up merchants, some muppetry and the odd bit of knuckledragging.
However - re: the above post: What the actual fuck are you on about? Can you hear me back there in the 1970s? Just in case the rest of the world has passed you by, we also now have colour televisions, foreign holidays are commonplace due to the proliferation of air travel, The ball at football is now much lighter than it used to be and it is not appropriate to call your neighbour a sambo if he happens to be black. For God's sake - things have moved on - though apparently not in your poxy little corner of Bermondsey.
Who on here would choose to be gay or if they had their life again would wish to be born gay?
If not, why not?
I've read through this entire thread. As usual, some intelligent, informed debate, some wind-up merchants, some muppetry and the odd bit of knuckledragging.
However - re: the above post: What the actual fuck are you on about? Can you hear me back there in the 1970s? Just in case the rest of the world has passed you by, we also now have colour televisions, foreign holidays are commonplace due to the proliferation of air travel, The ball at football is now much lighter than it used to be and it is not appropriate to call your neighbour a sambo if he happens to be black. For God's sake - things have moved on - though apparently not in your poxy little corner of Bermondsey.
Great rant from the poster who thinks you should vote relative to your income!
Arsenal, Charlton, Crystal Palace and Millwall fans have all been named in a report sent to the Football Association by Brighton supporters detailing incidents of homophobic abuse aimed at them.
The Seagulls are regularly the subject of taunts with the city of Brighton known for having a large gay community.
The Brighton and Hove Supporters Club (BHASC) and the Gay Football Supporters’ Network (GFSN) have compiled a dossier detailing the abuse, which they submitted to the FA on Tuesday.
It highlights incidents at home and away in Championship clashes with Millwall and Crystal Palace, plus further chants in a league game at Charlton and their FA Cup clash at home to Arsenal in January.
A joint statement from the BHASC and GFSN, on the BBC website, read: “It wouldn’t be described as ‘banter’ if the taunts and chants were about skin colour and something would have been done by now to stop it.
“Brighton & Hove Albion Supporters’ Club has spent over 15 years trying to get the authorities to take this regular abuse of one club’s fans seriously.
“We would like our fans to be able to go to games with kids or their grandparents and not hear much of the stuff we are subjected to - it’s our basic human right.
“Our campaigning with the help of the Football Supporters’ Federation has led to ‘homophobic abuse’ being included in the list of unacceptable behaviour in ground regulations, yet many clubs, their stewards and their fans do not seem to know what constitutes ‘homophobic abuse’.”
Gay Steve 33 from Southend, Gay Steve 33 from Southend, Ring any bells?
Now trying to work out who you are Loco!! Where was that chant - the pub at Everton?
Who on here would choose to be gay or if they had their life again would wish to be born gay?
If not, why not?
I've read through this entire thread. As usual, some intelligent, informed debate, some wind-up merchants, some muppetry and the odd bit of knuckledragging.
However - re: the above post: What the actual fuck are you on about? Can you hear me back there in the 1970s? Just in case the rest of the world has passed you by, we also now have colour televisions, foreign holidays are commonplace due to the proliferation of air travel, The ball at football is now much lighter than it used to be and it is not appropriate to call your neighbour a sambo if he happens to be black. For God's sake - things have moved on - though apparently not in your poxy little corner of Bermondsey.
Great rant from the poster who thinks you should vote relative to your income!
Who is the real ignoramus? SLL or LA?
What the fuck has the way you vote got to do with being a bigot?
Yeah ... the issue is new generation of fans and older fans like they say ... its not really right for a 8 year old to ask his dad what taking it up the bum means (one of palace chants)... I personally think its fine for them to raise this and highlight it ...
Johnny H I was trying to explain the difference In the ways you can be called the same word
Telling an oppositions set of fans we can see you holding hands is not abuse
But going up to Bloke saying I Saw you holding that blokes hand in an aggressive and violent manner , in a one on one or ten on 1 situation is totally different
And one needs fixing and stopping
The best point made is that it's Straight people who are more pissed off about it than gay folk as two have now said its either OTT or stupid to get offended by it
Oh and a Brighton supporting friend of mine tells me that when they beat Palace 3-0 recently the brighton fans were singing "we've just fcked you up the a7se"
The best point made is that it's Straight people who are more pissed off about it than gay folk as two have now said its either OTT or stupid to get offended by it
Yes and some people just spend their whole life getting offended on other peoples behalf.
discrimination takes many forms and in my opinion racist chanting is totally unacceptable in any form. Are chants such as 'does your boyfriend know your'e hear' or 'we can see you holding hands' really fall into the same category? I wouldn't sing them as I think they are purile and not particularly amusing but are they that offensive?
This!
Also as others have said, the point is if offensive comments are made and they are perceived to be abusive, then it's abuse. I've been to Charlton games at Leicester and Bradford i got really angry when our supporters sang 'Leicester's/Bradford's full of Paki's.' To me this is offensive as my two daughters are half Asian and one of them attends almost all away games i attend, which last season was 14. She does not hear these chants and consider them banter.
To all fans that do sing and shout abuse, go ahead, but think about your motives and don't complain if someone is offended!
And before anyone says i'm from the PC brigade, i am ashamed of what comes out of my mouth at games at times, often aimed at the ref (especially in front of my daughter) it may be ill thought out, but to my knowledge it is not illegal. Some of what is talked about above is!
Isn't foul and abusive language an arrestable offence Prince-e-Paul ? Asssuming this torrent of abuse aimed at the ref includes naughty words.
Anyway my last thought on all this.
Seriously, how many fans at Brighton are gay ? I can understand that a lot of Tottenham fans are Jewish as this represents the local community and young Jewish boys and girls are taken to football by their Jewish parents. Same for many many other teams and this is where a supporter base gains a chunk of identity - Millwall, Fulham, Celtic, Rangera all being examples of an identity created by the make-up of the community where their club is and the history of support passed down the generations.
Howerver, I would guess that brighton has a large gay population because gay adults choose to live there and move there when they are adults. I may also be wrong but perhaps they have fewer children than non-gay people.
So any mass gay population supporting the team is made up of people with no historical connection to the place - seriously how many would regularly go along. The generation stops with them until a new group of non-brighton supporters move to the place and may pop along to a game. They may of course already have football alliegences based on where they grew up so why would they go to the Amex regularly ?
Comments
What is abusive about offensive about holding hands
It is a boring Chant that has lost its appeal to me personally but I defend the right of those that sing it as it is not offensive
If they were to cross the thin line after that like we can see you holding dicks then yep offensive and wrong
Otherwise Jim Davidson would still be big on tv. And no-one wants that :-)
I am a fat bastard and wouldn't care if that was sang at me as it is banter
Now if some one came to me and called me a fat bastard with venom and anger one on one then that's aggressive and inflamotory and i would deal with it in the manor that was required
It wouldn't be the same as the fans at cafc that used to see the fat bloke going for food in the old stle grounds and used to sing you fat bstd you fat bstd at him
Or when weds tango used to get it every time he was seen
We are in danger of making football a sterile and not tribal thing that it should never be
Somewhere a bit up the scale from rugby fans sitting together will do me fine.
but only that song ref hands
I don't think anything else that has been said to have been sung is the same and is banter
as the song is aimed at the area just as you can't sing you nthn bastds to Exeter or Torquay for example
It's no way near being anti anything
With respect, being overweight is, on the whole, the result of a lifestyle choice. if you don't like being fat then you can change that. If you don't like being gay there is nothing you can do.
Ad the word 'banter' can excuse any wrongdoing, but it shouldn't focus on race or sexuality. 'Banter' is responsible for doing a lot of harm.
If you look at the culture as a whole in todays society, people are way to easily offended,
What annoys me most is people getting offended on other peoples behalf - i.e straight people getting offended by 'we can see you holding hands' when in fact gay people are probably not
Some sections of society take life way to seriously and should accept that in all walks of life, people will take the pisd out of each other - not to offend, but to joke, to be funny, to make others laugh. Its nature. If any of you have ever played a team sport you will know the amount of pisd taking in the dressing room is massive, but its a laugh, not serious. Im pretty sure brighton fans take the piss out of other teams fans and so they should. Was it them chanting 'dirty northen bastards' to us a couple of years back? (it may have been another south coast team)
Obviously there is a line, which most people in society adhere to. But for gods sake people, stop getting offended for no bloody reason
Goodnite all
I'd rather have JD presenting TV programmes rather than Vernon Kaye, Claudia Winkleman, Nick Knowles, John Barrowman, Holly Willouby, Paddy McGuinness or all the other new brigade without any personality or expertise with dealing with the public or "celebs".
Whatever you may think of Jim, he was as good as Brucie or Monkhouse as a presenter.
We both agreed that the world has gone pc mad and that soon prison sentences would be commonplace for verbal "abuse". The world has changed judicially and is dragging football that way too. Big Brother society approaches, tow the line, or pay the consequences....
However - re: the above post: What the actual fuck are you on about? Can you hear me back there in the 1970s? Just in case the rest of the world has passed you by, we also now have colour televisions, foreign holidays are commonplace due to the proliferation of air travel, The ball at football is now much lighter than it used to be and it is not appropriate to call your neighbour a sambo if he happens to be black. For God's sake - things have moved on - though apparently not in your poxy little corner of Bermondsey.
Who is the real ignoramus? SLL or LA?
Telling an oppositions set of fans we can see you holding hands is not abuse
But going up to Bloke saying I Saw you holding that blokes hand in an aggressive and violent manner , in a one on one or ten on 1 situation is totally different
And one needs fixing and stopping
The best point made is that it's Straight people who are more pissed off about it than gay folk as two have now said its either OTT or stupid to get offended by it
Also as others have said, the point is if offensive comments are made and they are perceived to be abusive, then it's abuse. I've been to Charlton games at Leicester and Bradford i got really angry when our supporters sang 'Leicester's/Bradford's full of Paki's.' To me this is offensive as my two daughters are half Asian and one of them attends almost all away games i attend, which last season was 14. She does not hear these chants and consider them banter.
To all fans that do sing and shout abuse, go ahead, but think about your motives and don't complain if someone is offended!
And before anyone says i'm from the PC brigade, i am ashamed of what comes out of my mouth at games at times, often aimed at the ref (especially in front of my daughter) it may be ill thought out, but to my knowledge it is not illegal. Some of what is talked about above is!
Anyway my last thought on all this.
Seriously, how many fans at Brighton are gay ? I can understand that a lot of Tottenham fans are Jewish as this represents the local community and young Jewish boys and girls are taken to football by their Jewish parents. Same for many many other teams and this is where a supporter base gains a chunk of identity - Millwall, Fulham, Celtic, Rangera all being examples of an identity created by the make-up of the community where their club is and the history of support passed down the generations.
Howerver, I would guess that brighton has a large gay population because gay adults choose to live there and move there when they are adults. I may also be wrong but perhaps they have fewer children than non-gay people.
So any mass gay population supporting the team is made up of people with no historical connection to the place - seriously how many would regularly go along. The generation stops with them until a new group of non-brighton supporters move to the place and may pop along to a game. They may of course already have football alliegences based on where they grew up so why would they go to the Amex regularly ?
Just an ill-thought out point (as usual)