i agree that our weakness is midfield, then its a goalscorer but is it just possible that the whole team were shagged after two very tough away games? Midfield looked completely shot. We've done well to be where we are with the lack of investment so we have to hang in there and pick up a few more wins / draws. There's no question, we are mostly painful to watch at home and the best we can do is grind wins out. Let's hope some money arrives in the summer.
i agree that our weakness is midfield, then its a goalscorer but is it just possible that the whole team were shagged after two very tough away games? Midfield looked completely shot. We've done well to be where we are with the lack of investment so we have to hang in there and pick up a few more wins / draws. There's no question, we are mostly painful to watch at home and the best we can do is grind wins out. Let's hope some money arrives in the summer.
Agree with this, with a days hindsight and after putting things in context, it just seems like it was a very, very "bad day at the office". We've held our own against better teams in the division and we've kept better players quiet (Ince, Zaha, Austin,) etc etc. We didn't look at the races yesterday and it didn't help that the ref gave us no favours. I'm sure next week we will come out all guns blazing, determined not to let another away team come and get the upper hand. COYA
It wasn't about the formation or how good the players are technically. They just didn't look interested today. No commitment or urgency despite getting outplayed from the first minute. If there was a bit more fight we might have had a chance to combat it but as it was it was awful to watch. And this a criticism based on just todays match not in general.
I get your frustration Norfolk, but for me Charlton were just out classed today. I dont think you can accuse them of not trying.Which Charlton players could get into the Forest team? Solly, maybe Wiggins??? They wouldn't want any others.
But i read on BBC that Forest have 5 loanees ? Dont know if they were all playing yesterday. So. doesnt this come back to my comment on another thread about Powell's choice of loanee isnt very good ? and historically hasnt been very good
That's unbelievably unfair on Hollands, Jackson, Stephens, Pritchard etc. You don't win a league with the highest ever points total if any part of your team is sub-standard. When BWP wasn't scoring and Yann wasn't prolific we still won almost all of our matches and you can't do that without a good midfield. I know when we've just had a bad result it's easy to be down in the mouth but come on now
Our best performances last season often came with either Hughes or Russell in midfield, Stephens and Hollands rarely played very well as a combination, while Pritchard tended to play as a substitute or in a wide role, and JJ played wide left. None of our central midfielders were brilliant last season, reflected in the player marks awarded on this site!
I'm sorry but that's just bollocks. 101 points we got. 101! There's this bizarre backwards mindset that because we weren't in scintillating, world beating form every single bloody week last season we somehow had a poor quality midfield. Granted the other areas of our team were stronger but most criticism levelled at our midfield was based on not having a great deal else to complain about due to our excellent form. 3-0 vs Bournemouth? Hollands and Stephens. That superb 2-0 win away at Colchester? Hollands and Stephens. 2-0 at Sheff U? Hollands and Stephens. 4-0 against Chesterfield, 2-0 against Stevenage, 2-1 against MK Dons. We had a good, brief, run of results when Stephens was out where Hughes and Hollands apparently combined into some kind of Megazord footballer the likes of which the world has never seen but it's just utterly, utterly bizarre to claim that Hollands and Stephens 'rarely played very well as a combination'. There were rocky patches as there always will be in any season but I really can't believe people can look back on that season and say there was any part of that team that fundamentally didn't work. They weren't brilliant geniuses but they more than did a good enough job for us. We had good results with various combinations of central midfielders because they were all quality in L1, which by the way we won. Just because Hollands hasn't done it this season and Stephens misplaced some passes yesterday doesn't reduce their previous accomplishments. People are losing their minds over a 2-0 loss against Nottingham Forest, can we please not start claiming that we scraped though L1 which a bunch of chancers in midfield? I'd like to think we'd cling on to the happy memories..
That's unbelievably unfair on Hollands, Jackson, Stephens, Pritchard etc. You don't win a league with the highest ever points total if any part of your team is sub-standard. When BWP wasn't scoring and Yann wasn't prolific we still won almost all of our matches and you can't do that without a good midfield. I know when we've just had a bad result it's easy to be down in the mouth but come on now
Our best performances last season often came with either Hughes or Russell in midfield, Stephens and Hollands rarely played very well as a combination, while Pritchard tended to play as a substitute or in a wide role, and JJ played wide left. None of our central midfielders were brilliant last season, reflected in the player marks awarded on this site!
I'm sorry but that's just bollocks. 101 points we got. 101! There's this bizarre backwards mindset that because we weren't in scintillating, world beating form every single bloody week last season we somehow had a poor quality midfield. Granted the other areas of our team were stronger but most criticism levelled at our midfield was based on not having a great deal else to complain about due to our excellent form. 3-0 vs Bournemouth? Hollands and Stephens. That superb 2-0 win away at Colchester? Hollands and Stephens. 2-0 at Sheff U? Hollands and Stephens. 4-0 against Chesterfield, 2-0 against Stevenage, 2-1 against MK Dons. We had a good, brief, run of results when Stephens was out where Hughes and Hollands apparently combined into some kind of Megazord footballer the likes of which the world has never seen but it's just utterly, utterly bizarre to claim that Hollands and Stephens 'rarely played very well as a combination'. There were rocky patches as there always will be in any season but I really can't believe people can look back on that season and say there was any part of that team that fundamentally didn't work. They weren't brilliant geniuses but they more than did a good enough job for us. We had good results with various combinations of central midfielders because they were all quality in L1, which by the way we won. Just because Hollands hasn't done it this season and Stephens misplaced some passes yesterday doesn't reduce their previous accomplishments. People are losing their minds over a 2-0 loss against Nottingham Forest, can we please not start claiming that we scraped though L1 which a bunch of chancers in midfield? I'd like to think we'd cling on to the happy memories..
Thats your problem Garry =you are living on memories !. Forget about last season - most fans on here know that last seasons midfield (exclude the rest of the team) was just a little more than adequate against pony oppo.Whereas the defence was phenomenal- thats the main reason we got 101 points. Well last seasons adequate = this seasons shit. i'm afraid.
You're right of course Offy. It's just sad that people can look back on a season where we got 101 points (you do that by winning, which involves scoring) and think 'we defended our way to that'. Some of this lot could win the Lotto and they'd just complain it wasn't the Euromillions
That's unbelievably unfair on Hollands, Jackson, Stephens, Pritchard etc. You don't win a league with the highest ever points total if any part of your team is sub-standard. When BWP wasn't scoring and Yann wasn't prolific we still won almost all of our matches and you can't do that without a good midfield. I know when we've just had a bad result it's easy to be down in the mouth but come on now
Our best performances last season often came with either Hughes or Russell in midfield, Stephens and Hollands rarely played very well as a combination, while Pritchard tended to play as a substitute or in a wide role, and JJ played wide left. None of our central midfielders were brilliant last season, reflected in the player marks awarded on this site!
I'm sorry but that's just bollocks. 101 points we got. 101! There's this bizarre backwards mindset that because we weren't in scintillating, world beating form every single bloody week last season we somehow had a poor quality midfield. Granted the other areas of our team were stronger but most criticism levelled at our midfield was based on not having a great deal else to complain about due to our excellent form. 3-0 vs Bournemouth? Hollands and Stephens. That superb 2-0 win away at Colchester? Hollands and Stephens. 2-0 at Sheff U? Hollands and Stephens. 4-0 against Chesterfield, 2-0 against Stevenage, 2-1 against MK Dons. We had a good, brief, run of results when Stephens was out where Hughes and Hollands apparently combined into some kind of Megazord footballer the likes of which the world has never seen but it's just utterly, utterly bizarre to claim that Hollands and Stephens 'rarely played very well as a combination'. There were rocky patches as there always will be in any season but I really can't believe people can look back on that season and say there was any part of that team that fundamentally didn't work. They weren't brilliant geniuses but they more than did a good enough job for us. We had good results with various combinations of central midfielders because they were all quality in L1, which by the way we won. Just because Hollands hasn't done it this season and Stephens misplaced some passes yesterday doesn't reduce their previous accomplishments. People are losing their minds over a 2-0 loss against Nottingham Forest, can we please not start claiming that we scraped though L1 which a bunch of chancers in midfield? I'd like to think we'd cling on to the happy memories..
Of course we were excellent in L1 last season, and the central midfield was good... but in relative terms nowhere near as good as the rest of the team, and in the Championship they're competing against far stronger opposition.
Looking at the end of season 2011/12 Charlton Life stats, Hollands was 9th while Stephens was 15th out of all our players. That says it all.
Blaming individual players when the whole team has been crap at home for 90% of the season, whilst being brilliant away from home, is misguided. You cannot win at places like Leicester and Watford and run rings around Palace at Selhurst for 45 mins with players who are sub standard. Contrast the performances at the start of last season with the way we now play at home. Back then CP believed in open, expansive attacking football. Paul Hayes played the role very well and provided great movement in the forward line which brought the best out of Stephens, and the whole team looked good and played with confidence and finesse. The tactics since at home have become increasingly negative. We start every game on the back foot and get out passed in virtually every home game. CP himself seems to be losing confidence in his own ability, which is reflected in his inaction to change things when the whole ground can see that a substitution is required. CP and his coaching staff need to have a rethink about their footballing philosophy in relation to home games and their obligation to provide entertainment to the paying public. Playing good football doesn't always bring good results, but in our situation we have nothing to lose because we are getting nowhere by playing in such a negative way at home atm.
And (as a younger fan) if you want the worst Charlton performance/result of the past 45 years then you probably have to look at Northwich Victoria three and a half years ago.
Wycombe in league cup wasn't great either.
I can think of far worse games in the last 20 years.
Northwich, Sheffield United 5-2, Walsall 0-1 and the infamous Dagenham away game, plus I remember a dreadful performance against Stockport 97-98 season.
Defence and midfield and forwards were missing today, yes Hamer was poor to, terrible team effort not just Hamer at fault as he made a couple of decent saves too.
Lack of organisation after the red cost us, and the red looks harsh no matter how many times I see it.
Leicester away - Brilliant and Powell's god Forest home - Awful and Powell doesn't know what he is doing !! The highs and lows of football in 5 days Rome wasn't built in a day
It has happened all season. Middlesborough 1-4 followed by cardiff 5-4 Ipswich 1-2 followed by watford 4-3 Shows we have team spirit and character in abundance but lack quality which would bring consistency if we had more.
CHEER UP EVERYBODY, I've got the answer. Starting next season, your season ticket will give you entry to the Valley to watch all our AWAY games on a big screen. Attendance at the Valley to watch home games will be restricted only to people who show an ability to sit quietly and watch dire football without complaining. You will be tested this coming Saturday when we conspire to make Burnley look like Man Utd. Mr Powell will be introducing his new 1-9-1 formation, and he is currently asking for volunteers to stand up front alone and get 7 bells knocked out of them. Remember from you, a long arm stretch and a big yawn will instantly qualify you to attend home matches next season. Of course the Coach Travel can now be cancelled, and the money will be spent on bringing in a new defensive Coach to ensure that our nine defenders are quick enough to pack into our penalty area before the ball arrives. Onwards and backwards.
That's unbelievably unfair on Hollands, Jackson, Stephens, Pritchard etc. You don't win a league with the highest ever points total if any part of your team is sub-standard. When BWP wasn't scoring and Yann wasn't prolific we still won almost all of our matches and you can't do that without a good midfield. I know when we've just had a bad result it's easy to be down in the mouth but come on now
Our best performances last season often came with either Hughes or Russell in midfield, Stephens and Hollands rarely played very well as a combination, while Pritchard tended to play as a substitute or in a wide role, and JJ played wide left. None of our central midfielders were brilliant last season, reflected in the player marks awarded on this site!
I'm sorry but that's just bollocks. 101 points we got. 101! There's this bizarre backwards mindset that because we weren't in scintillating, world beating form every single bloody week last season we somehow had a poor quality midfield. Granted the other areas of our team were stronger but most criticism levelled at our midfield was based on not having a great deal else to complain about due to our excellent form. 3-0 vs Bournemouth? Hollands and Stephens. That superb 2-0 win away at Colchester? Hollands and Stephens. 2-0 at Sheff U? Hollands and Stephens. 4-0 against Chesterfield, 2-0 against Stevenage, 2-1 against MK Dons. We had a good, brief, run of results when Stephens was out where Hughes and Hollands apparently combined into some kind of Megazord footballer the likes of which the world has never seen but it's just utterly, utterly bizarre to claim that Hollands and Stephens 'rarely played very well as a combination'. There were rocky patches as there always will be in any season but I really can't believe people can look back on that season and say there was any part of that team that fundamentally didn't work. They weren't brilliant geniuses but they more than did a good enough job for us. We had good results with various combinations of central midfielders because they were all quality in L1, which by the way we won. Just because Hollands hasn't done it this season and Stephens misplaced some passes yesterday doesn't reduce their previous accomplishments. People are losing their minds over a 2-0 loss against Nottingham Forest, can we please not start claiming that we scraped though L1 which a bunch of chancers in midfield? I'd like to think we'd cling on to the happy memories..
Of course we were excellent in L1 last season, and the central midfield was good... but in relative terms nowhere near as good as the rest of the team, and in the Championship they're competing against far stronger opposition.
Looking at the end of season 2011/12 Charlton Life stats, Hollands was 9th while Stephens was 15th out of all our players. That says it all.
My original point in this discussion was in reaction to the claim that 'last season was won because we had a Championship defence and a very good L1 attack'. I've never said the midfield was the best part of the team, just that it's ludicrous to act like we scraped through to the league title dragging an incapable midfield behind us. They were good. Very good in fact. I'm trying to stop the doom-mongers from belittling an exceptional achievement because we lost a match a season later in another league. That cannot be allowed.
And the stats say it all about the perception of players on this site. That's about it though
Blaming individual players when the whole team has been crap at home for 90% of the season, whilst being brilliant away from home, is misguided. You cannot win at places like Leicester and Watford and run rings around Palace at Selhurst for 45 mins with players who are sub standard. Contrast the performances at the start of last season with the way we now play at home. Back then CP believed in open, expansive attacking football. Paul Hayes played the role very well and provided great movement in the forward line which brought the best out of Stephens, and the whole team looked good and played with confidence and finesse. The tactics since at home have become increasingly negative. We start every game on the back foot and get out passed in virtually every home game. CP himself seems to be losing confidence in his own ability, which is reflected in his inaction to change things when the whole ground can see that a substitution is required. CP and his coaching staff need to have a rethink about their footballing philosophy in relation to home games and their obligation to provide entertainment to the paying public. Playing good football doesn't always bring good results, but in our situation we have nothing to lose because we are getting nowhere by playing in such a negative way at home atm.
completely agree about the negative formation. it's hard for the players and for the fans when at home. disheartening. sends the wrong message out and if it goes wrong it's hard to change into an attacking formation without just turning it into pump the ball forward to our four strikers three of them we just bought on. (remember shef wed and palarse). let the other team worry about us not us worry about them all the time. we were screwed from the off.
Can't believe I waited four months in exile to watch that utter drivel. Impotent, brainless and ugly. Worse than the Parky days and those who were not there shouldn't read anything into the fact that we were down to 10.
We would have lost with 15 on the field and Nottingham Forest will never get an easier 3 points this season.
Nice to see a proper footballer like Fatty Reid on the pitch. Completely different class to anyone in a red shirt.
When I saw the three man midfield of Dervite (what was he supposed to be doing today and had anyone told him?), Pritchard (just bundled off the ball by the grown ups) and Jackson (at least he tried hard) I thought this must be the weakest midfield trio in the entire Football League.
I will personally drive Stephens to Villa Park if he ever plays like that again.
Hats off to Saint Chris for achieving mid-table obscurity with no midfield players of any quality.
Please tell me it isn't like that every home match.
Seen a couple of people now turn round and come out with tripe like "worst performance I have seen in 40 years".
FFS we lost 2-0 with 10 men against a better side than us. Were you lot asleep when we lost 4-0 at The Den? When we lost 6-1 at home to Leeds? Talk about exaggeration...
Grumps is correct,100 percent - Pritchard looks and plays like a 7-year old; Dervite too awful to even contemplate; Jackson often goes AWOL first 20 minutes but was sadly overawed for a full 90 against Forest. Stephens couldn't knock it 5 yards from the start, although in mitigation he offers quality over the season that others don't possess.... If we acknowledge that we do possess reasonable defenders at this level and that CP doesn't really believe in taking the game to the opposition, then it's imperative that we're competitive across the middle and are willing to make changes as required. Can anyone suggest why Pritchard's selection has been more or less automatic this season. I've seldom seen a player muscled off the ball so regularly!
Blaming individual players when the whole team has been crap at home for 90% of the season, whilst being brilliant away from home, is misguided. You cannot win at places like Leicester and Watford and run rings around Palace at Selhurst for 45 mins with players who are sub standard. Contrast the performances at the start of last season with the way we now play at home. Back then CP believed in open, expansive attacking football. Paul Hayes played the role very well and provided great movement in the forward line which brought the best out of Stephens, and the whole team looked good and played with confidence and finesse. The tactics since at home have become increasingly negative. We start every game on the back foot and get out passed in virtually every home game. CP himself seems to be losing confidence in his own ability, which is reflected in his inaction to change things when the whole ground can see that a substitution is required. CP and his coaching staff need to have a rethink about their footballing philosophy in relation to home games and their obligation to provide entertainment to the paying public. Playing good football doesn't always bring good results, but in our situation we have nothing to lose because we are getting nowhere by playing in such a negative way at home atm.
completely agree about the negative formation. it's hard for the players and for the fans when at home. disheartening. sends the wrong message out and if it goes wrong it's hard to change into an attacking formation without just turning it into pump the ball forward to our four strikers three of them we just bought on. (remember shef wed and palarse). let the other team worry about us not us worry about them all the time. we were screwed from the off.
"Let the other team worry about us , not us worry about them all the time"
For me, this is the crux of the issue.
Bringing on a match changing sub like Haynes at Leics says it all and IMHO might have made all the difference at Palace if he'd been given more time on the pitch. This is one player we have that definitely gives the opposition something to worry about...Callum Harriott at home is another example of what MIGHT change a game in our favour.
I know that Haynes was brought on against Forest and maybe it would have taken Canute to turn the tide of this one. However, at 0-0 at the start of the 2nd half, wouldn't it have been the time to admit it was only a matter of time before the opposition scored so bringing on 2 strikers for the ineffective Waggy & Stephens at that point might have been a game changer ? Of course, being a man light at this point inevitably influenced the decisions made this time round.Really hope the gaffer sees the light and that from next Saturday we play an attacking game from the 1st minute to the last.
I've never played the Beautiful Game but isn't the best form of defence, attack ?
( Apologies if I'm talking a load of cr*p but feeling under the weather today...woman flu?)
The difference between home and away performances is staggering. I blame the home crowd for laying their collective anxieties and unreal expectations on the players .. or it could be that we try to play too much at home. We need to play the same @ home as away, however 'defensive minded' that may be. Keep it simple
Chippy, did you work in Chatham about 30 years ago?
Yes good old Dockyard matey.
Thought the CV looked familiar - I bumped into you in the Liberal club about 18 months ago, hadn't seen you since the days on the coaches in the Mike Bailey era.
Comments
Forget about last season - most fans on here know that last seasons midfield (exclude the rest of the team) was just a little more than adequate against pony oppo.Whereas the defence was phenomenal- thats the main reason we got 101 points. Well last seasons adequate = this seasons shit. i'm afraid.
Looking at the end of season 2011/12 Charlton Life stats, Hollands was 9th while Stephens was 15th out of all our players. That says it all.
The tactics since at home have become increasingly negative. We start every game on the back foot and get out passed in virtually every home game. CP himself seems to be losing confidence in his own ability, which is reflected in his inaction to change things when the whole ground can see that a substitution is required. CP and his coaching staff need to have a rethink about their footballing philosophy in relation to home games and their obligation to provide entertainment to the paying public. Playing good football doesn't always bring good results, but in our situation we have nothing to lose because we are getting nowhere by playing in such a negative way at home atm.
http://www.charltonlife.com/discussion/51401/the-most-depressing-display-since
Lack of organisation after the red cost us, and the red looks harsh no matter how many times I see it.
Yellow yes but red? Seriously?
Forest home - Awful and Powell doesn't know what he is doing !!
The highs and lows of football in 5 days
Rome wasn't built in a day
Middlesborough 1-4 followed by cardiff 5-4
Ipswich 1-2 followed by watford 4-3
Shows we have team spirit and character in abundance but lack quality which would bring consistency if we had more.
Man Utd. Mr Powell will be introducing his new 1-9-1 formation, and he is currently asking for volunteers to stand up front alone and get 7 bells knocked out of them. Remember from you, a long arm stretch and a big yawn will instantly qualify you to attend home matches next season. Of course the Coach Travel can now be cancelled, and the money will be spent on bringing in a new defensive Coach to ensure that our nine defenders are quick enough to pack into our penalty area before the ball arrives. Onwards and backwards.
And the stats say it all about the perception of players on this site. That's about it though
completely agree about the negative formation. it's hard for the players and for the fans when at home. disheartening. sends the wrong message out and if it goes wrong it's hard to change into an attacking formation without just turning it into pump the ball forward to our four strikers three of them we just bought on. (remember shef wed and palarse).
let the other team worry about us not us worry about them all the time. we were screwed from the off.
FFS we lost 2-0 with 10 men against a better side than us. Were you lot asleep when we lost 4-0 at The Den? When we lost 6-1 at home to Leeds? Talk about exaggeration...
For me, this is the crux of the issue.
Bringing on a match changing sub like Haynes at Leics says it all and IMHO might have made all the difference at Palace if he'd been given more time on the pitch. This is one player we have that definitely gives the opposition something to worry about...Callum Harriott at home is another example of what MIGHT change a game in our favour.
I know that Haynes was brought on against Forest and maybe it would have taken Canute to turn the tide of this one. However, at 0-0 at the start of the 2nd half, wouldn't it have been the time to admit it was only a matter of time before the opposition scored so bringing on 2 strikers for the ineffective Waggy & Stephens at that point might have been a game changer ? Of course, being a man light at this point inevitably influenced the decisions made this time round.Really hope the gaffer sees the light and that from next Saturday we play an attacking game from the 1st minute to the last.
I've never played the Beautiful Game but isn't the best form of defence, attack ?
( Apologies if I'm talking a load of cr*p but feeling under the weather today...woman flu?)