So everyone except me understands and approves this remark, right?
I can't say as I do.
What you posted seemed fair enough to me, I think that generally the moaning and pegging them as hooligans was unfair and intolerant - didn't really think that you'd done that in your comment though.
As the RD had sought approval and acceptance where as in reality they shouldnt have given 2 shits, because like music football is personal choice and how u enjoy it is down to you
As the RD had sought approval and acceptance where as in reality they shouldnt have given 2 shits, because like music football is personal choice and how u enjoy it is down to you
Exactly it's all about toleration, however it seems like the older pro family type supporter is less tolerable than the pro RD.
Us older fans were once the younger ones and you younger ones will be the older ones eventually. Some songs like Valley Floyd Road are good for everyone to sing- others like the Adams Family are not. There were a group of fans at the Youth Cup tie against Chelsea who were giving fantastic support. If they were the Red Division- Good on yer. On the other hand the small band of fans chanting the Addams Family song and other abuse at the Huddersfield fans from the East stand in the Cup game were just silly, whoever they were, and just made an awful day worse.
If I got it wrong I apologise.
Was the bit in bold (above) not aimed at RD's East Stand appearance and activity at the Huddersfield game ?
Interesting read and interesting 'debate'. Ultimately, it just clarifies that we all have differing views and opinions and boy, how good it is that we are different. What a drag it would be if we were all monotonous robots who all agreed with each other! So, what's the crux of this discussion I ask myself? Are the 'Red Division' (not a fan of such a stereotypical name) to be ostracised for singing and having a good time? No, I reckon not. However, if that kind of support crosses the boundaries into offence then yes, it is not welcome (I know it was sung long before they used it, but the Addams family thing is crass and devoid of any thought or intellect! I recall sitting at Swindon a couple of years back and it was versed. What amazed me was the family of two young girls, Mum and Dad sitting behind me and all joining in! I really felt for them in all honesty).
So, have a bit of a jolly up, get the support going and keep at it. By the way though, some fella back in Feb on this thread advocated that 'if you want to throw flares around then throw them around'! I wonder if he would be so supportive of that view if a lit flare landed on his bonce? I doubt it.
Doubt it was the "older pro family type" who were threatening RD.
From the comments I've seen the "older/family" fans were quite supportive.
The fans who seemed to have a problem with them were, imho, younger fans and/or those who felt it was "embassassing" to sing palace songs or be like the palace ultras or have a name as this wasn't "cool" in some way and didn't fit their image of fans should behave.
Seems more like it was the stewards and police who put them off using the name in any case.
Agree with NLA, should have just got on with it and not sought approval. Support the team how you want be that singing or sitting in silence (within reason and the law) but let others do the same.
Seems a shame but the best advice seems to be to come back a little more low key with kess reliance on social networking medium to promote your identity. Might make it harder for u to organise but it could be the answer...just a few like minded supporters. Avoiding overt and documented publicity will also make it more difficult for the police to hassle you .
Doubt it was the "older pro family type" who were threatening RD.
From the comments I've seen the "older/family" fans were quite supportive.
The fans who seemed to have a problem with them were, imho, younger fans and/or those who felt it was "embassassing" to sing palace songs or be like the palace ultras or have a name as this wasn't "cool" in some way and didn't fit their image of fans should behave.
Seems more like it was the stewards and police who put them off using the name in any case.
Agree with NLA, should have just got on with it and not sought approval. Support the team how you want be that singing or sitting in silence (within reason and the law) but let others do the same.
I didnt say they were threatening RD, I said they seem less tolerable.
It's like if you dont support the players or club in the way they like then your not welcome. It's like ME14's comments in regards to goading other fans.
Gives off the impression that they see RD as a pest instead of just tolerating them.
As has been said before. Don't open a thread "your thoughts on Red Division" & then get upset when people make comments, that you have requested. Makes no sense at all.
Just get behind the team as you did before & drop all The Red Division stuff. It leads the OB to get very wary & let's be honest, although I don't agree & was outraged at the way the OB behaved at home to Hudds, I can understand why.
You need to keep under the radar, not advertise yourselves. It gives OB & other fans the wrong impression.
Us older fans were once the younger ones and you younger ones will be the older ones eventually. Some songs like Valley Floyd Road are good for everyone to sing- others like the Adams Family are not. There were a group of fans at the Youth Cup tie against Chelsea who were giving fantastic support. If they were the Red Division- Good on yer. On the other hand the small band of fans chanting the Addams Family song and other abuse at the Huddersfield fans from the East stand in the Cup game were just silly, whoever they were, and just made an awful day worse.
If I got it wrong I apologise.
Was the bit in bold (above) not aimed at RD's East Stand appearance and activity at the Huddersfield game ?
Since I don't know anything about RD I mentioned two instances that I thought might be them, one good the other not so.
As I have been accused of being critical of our fans on a regular basis, most recently on Saturday for some unknown reason by Johnny H2, I should just like to put it on record as a "family fan" that I have never directly criticised Red Division or any other group of fans on here.
What I HAVE said, and what those who disagree choose to ignore or misrepresent, is that those who abuse other fans, physically and verbally, who wish to sit and watch the match they have paid good money for rather than have their view obstructed by people standing in front of them are out of order. I have also condemned the recent vandalism to property and throwing seats and incendiary devices around in a crowded stadium.
I have further stated that I resent being tainted by association with such behaviour to general uproar and horror on here and people saying how does it affect me?
The departure arrangements for Millwall at The Valley answer that question. The police put in those measures because of the behaviour of CHARLTON fans at Millwall (and I believe Palace) and decent law abiding family supporters such as myself were inconvenienced and by definition damned by association.
I also voiced my disgust at our fans singing the Addams family song during the Knox Mizen tribute.
If expressing discontent about such behaviour can be construed as "criticising Red Division" and discouraging young fans from attending then frankly I despair for the future of this country.
Red Division, through their former spokesman Greenie Junior, claim not to be "a firm" or to throw seats and flares so what is the problem with my comments?
The opinion included a good amount of do this, don't do this, less of this etc etc so they took the opinion onboard and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
Is that not right ?
If you ask the question then you have to listen to the answer and they did.
TBF Len I agree with you. Many posters have "put words in your mouth", that you certainly never said & also seem to want it both ways. Condemn Millwall & praise us for doing the same type of thing.
It's a complex issue & I'm somewhere in the middle & I have to admit to being somewhat hypocritical on this subject myself.
Before someone criticises me for lack of paragraphs in the post above they were there in my draft.
However they did not show when I posted and no amount of editing appears able to make them reappear.
I hope the evidence of approximately 14,000 comments will persuade even the sternest critics and nitpickers that this is an exception and not the rule in my case.
TBF Len I agree with you. Many posters have "put words in your mouth", that you certainly never said & also seem to want it both ways. Condemn Millwall & praise us for doing the same type of thing.
It's a complex issue & I'm somewhere in the middle & I have to admit to being somewhat hypocritical on this subject myself.
Of course they do AN they are fans of cafc in the main i wouldve thought prob 2nd and 3rd gen
I hope they dont stop the call themselves what they want and behave how they want within the context of the law of the land and not give a shit what people think
Wow I'm amazed at some of the stuff on here over a group of kids trying to generate a bit of atmosphere where lets all be honest it's bloody needed.... So what they have a "brand name" most clubs up and down the country have more than one splinter group with a different tag, get over yourselves. My advice is DONT drop the name. CARRY on with what you set out to do, (there are enough people in this world doing nothing) be the exception. And as for those who want to have a CHAT with you, wait till they do come and have that "chat" then tell them where to go. Make your group as big as you can and eventually everyone will be saying how boring it was before you formed. Don't be put off by negatives comments, if they don't kill you they make you stronger...Football is about atmosphere, go and create some.
Before someone criticises me for lack of paragraphs in the post above they were there in my draft.
However they did not show when I posted and no amount of editing appears able to make them reappear.
I hope the evidence of approximately 14,000 comments will persuade even the sternest critics and nitpickers that this is an exception and not the rule in my case.
As I have been accused of being critical of our fans on a regular basis, most recently on Saturday for some unknown reason by Johnny H2, I should just like to put it on record as a "family fan" that I have never directly criticised Red Division or any other group of fans on here.
What I HAVE said, and what those who disagree choose to ignore or misrepresent, is that those who abuse other fans, physically and verbally, who wish to sit and watch the match they have paid good money for rather than have their view obstructed by people standing in front of them are out of order. I have also condemned the recent vandalism to property and throwing seats and incendiary devices around in a crowded stadium.
I have further stated that I resent being tainted by association with such behaviour to general uproar and horror on here and people saying how does it affect me?
The departure arrangements for Millwall at The Valley answer that question. The police put in those measures because of the behaviour of CHARLTON fans at Millwall (and I believe Palace) and decent law abiding family supporters such as myself were inconvenienced and by definition damned by association.
I also voiced my disgust at our fans singing the Addams family song during the Knox Mizen tribute.
If expressing discontent about such behaviour can be construed as "criticising Red Division" and discouraging young fans from attending then frankly I despair for the future of this country.
Red Division, through their former spokesman Greenie Junior, claim not to be "a firm" or to throw seats and flares so what is the problem with my comments?
Blimey this is a bit of sad news, bit like the Beatles breaking up, don't give up GJ , as long as your within the law and as others said not singing the Adamms family song, throwing flares, wearing face masks etc ...
For goodness sake lads just make a racket, the Valley is crying out for an atmosphere , you don't need to have a name , we need more people with your passion at Charlton GJ.
Comments
What you posted seemed fair enough to me, I think that generally the moaning and pegging them as hooligans was unfair and intolerant - didn't really think that you'd done that in your comment though.
As the RD had sought approval and acceptance where as in reality they shouldnt have given 2 shits, because like music football is personal choice and how u enjoy it is down to you
Was the bit in bold (above) not aimed at RD's East Stand appearance and activity at the Huddersfield game ?
So, have a bit of a jolly up, get the support going and keep at it. By the way though, some fella back in Feb on this thread advocated that 'if you want to throw flares around then throw them around'! I wonder if he would be so supportive of that view if a lit flare landed on his bonce? I doubt it.
From the comments I've seen the "older/family" fans were quite supportive.
The fans who seemed to have a problem with them were, imho, younger fans and/or those who felt it was "embassassing" to sing palace songs or be like the palace ultras or have a name as this wasn't "cool" in some way and didn't fit their image of fans should behave.
Seems more like it was the stewards and police who put them off using the name in any case.
Agree with NLA, should have just got on with it and not sought approval. Support the team how you want be that singing or sitting in silence (within reason and the law) but let others do the same.
Seems a shame but the best advice seems to be to come back a little more low key with kess reliance on social networking medium to promote your identity. Might make it harder for u to organise but it could be the answer...just a few like minded supporters. Avoiding overt and documented publicity will also make it more difficult for the police to hassle you .
Hope we win for ya v brizzle
Wasn't a fan of the naming/branding/banner thing. Thought it was a bit too Palace personally.
Shame to see some may have been turned off from coming though because of it.
It's like if you dont support the players or club in the way they like then your not welcome. It's like ME14's comments in regards to goading other fans.
Gives off the impression that they see RD as a pest instead of just tolerating them.
And as I pointed out earlier RD were happy to moan about other fans being bovril + blankets types. Tolerance has to go both ways.
Just get behind the team as you did before & drop all The Red Division stuff. It leads the OB to get very wary & let's be honest, although I don't agree & was outraged at the way the OB behaved at home to Hudds, I can understand why.
You need to keep under the radar, not advertise yourselves. It gives OB & other fans the wrong impression.
NLA will understand this :-)
What I HAVE said, and what those who disagree choose to ignore or misrepresent, is that those who abuse other fans, physically and verbally, who wish to sit and watch the match they have paid good money for rather than have their view obstructed by people standing in front of them are out of order. I have also condemned the recent vandalism to property and throwing seats and incendiary devices around in a crowded stadium.
I have further stated that I resent being tainted by association with such behaviour to general uproar and horror on here and people saying how does it affect me?
The departure arrangements for Millwall at The Valley answer that question. The police put in those measures because of the behaviour of CHARLTON fans at Millwall (and I believe Palace) and decent law abiding family supporters such as myself were inconvenienced and by definition damned by association.
I also voiced my disgust at our fans singing the Addams family song during the Knox Mizen tribute.
If expressing discontent about such behaviour can be construed as "criticising Red Division" and discouraging young fans from attending then frankly I despair for the future of this country.
Red Division, through their former spokesman Greenie Junior, claim not to be "a firm" or to throw seats and flares so what is the problem with my comments?
The opinion included a good amount of do this, don't do this, less of this etc etc so they took the opinion onboard and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
Is that not right ?
If you ask the question then you have to listen to the answer and they did.
It's a complex issue & I'm somewhere in the middle & I have to admit to being somewhat hypocritical on this subject myself.
Now I've done it :-)
However they did not show when I posted and no amount of editing appears able to make them reappear.
I hope the evidence of approximately 14,000 comments will persuade even the sternest critics and nitpickers that this is an exception and not the rule in my case.
;-)
I hope they dont stop the call themselves what they want and behave how they want within the context of the law of the land and not give a shit what people think
For goodness sake lads just make a racket, the Valley is crying out for an atmosphere , you don't need to have a name , we need more people with your passion at Charlton GJ.
Greenie_jr should be praised by the club and rewarded with a free season ticket for his efforts.
If you could centralize the vocal support i think you would
Be around People à lot more tolérable.
Some supporters want the cheap seats but the east stand atmosphere.
Safe standing is the way forward and i for one am behind it 100%.