I was going to let this go as it has gone on too long but Croydon's last post and a few others have dragged me back.
the thread is about vandalism and violence not "atmosphere".
Smashing up toilets or cars is not "atmosphere".
"Atmosphere" is rapidly becoming one of those excuse words like "banter" that can be used at any time to justify any misbehaviour.
Then people, as Croydon has done, equate ANY suggestion that there should be a limitation on how people behave to mean the person wants everyone to sit down and watch quietly and is anti-atmosphere.
I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned.
What I want is lots of noise, lots of singing, lots of support for the team. What I don't want is vandalism or violence. There is no reason why we have to have the latter to have the former.
If it will be served in a sterile environment by trained professionals in a plastic cup, with an extremely low alcohol content and not on an empty stomach in or anywhere near the ground or children and you promise to recycle the cup then I'll think about the offer.
I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned.
What I want is lots of noise, lots of singing, lots of support for the team. What I don't want is vandalism or violence.
Spot on and i think 99% of Charlton fans who travel away would agree with this
How many times does it have to be said - they're illegal! The nightclub fire in Brazil recently was started by a flare - they're not so harmless as people seem to think.
ME14, Len - I'd give it up lads as you are fighting a losing battle. All it does is drive people like you and I from bothering to go to away games so a few can have their 'fun'. As normal the minority spoil it for the majority.
Is it a minority? I think most enjoy the flairs and enjoy the atmosphere we've been creating compared to the quiet atmosphere we're accustomed to. There are also lots of people who are really enjoying the improved atmosphere and are not overly bothered about the flairs or smoke bombs
It seems a minority of people are getting overly worked up over the flair/smoke bomb saga and have turned to calling our own fans 'thugs,scum,yobs' etc.
Perhaps we should segregate our away fans into two groups,one for fans who like atmopshere and one for fans who would prefer to sit down and watch the game quietly
my last word (maybe ;-)). I'm not too bothered about the flares as long as people don't throw them around and endangered other fans. What I object to is wanton vandelism whether to another clubs property or anyone else's property. I'm all for a decent atmosphere but even that is alienating those whose want/need to sit but can't but that is another debate entirely. Racist and purile songs also, for me, do not add to or aid the atmosphere and yet they too have raised their ugly heads over the last couple of seasons.
I was going to let this go as it has gone on too long but Croydon's last post and a few others have dragged me back.
the thread is about vandalism and violence not "atmosphere".
Smashing up toilets or cars is not "atmosphere".
"Atmosphere" is rapidly becoming one of those excuse words like "banter" that can be used at any time to justify any misbehaviour.
Then people, as Croydon has done, equate ANY suggestion that there should be a limitation on how people behave to mean the person wants everyone to sit down and watch quietly and is anti-atmosphere.
I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned.
What I want is lots of noise, lots of singing, lots of support for the team. What I don't want is vandalism or violence. There is no reason why we have to have the latter to have the former.
When did I say smashing up toilets and cars was atmosphere?! If you'd seen my earlier posts you'd know I've done nothing but condemn the vandalism!
"I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned." -- so you've effectively proved my theory that people enjoy the atmosphere and aren't overly bothered about the flairs yet felt the need to have a go at what I said?
My post was aimed at two people who have in the past commented on how they would prefer to watch the game sitting down in a quieter environment,that's why I mentioned the segregation bit,not just for the sake of being petty.
its just pointless to try to explain to those that chose not to listen
the facts are as follows
The vast majority of fans have openly condemed the vandalism and open destruction of property both in and out the ground
The vast majority of fans were well behaved and very vocal
The support of the vast majority of those fans there saturday were fantatsic loud and very very impressive
The issue of flares and smoke bombs is dividing opinion yet all know that it is illegal however it is not something that needs to be confused with the vandalism it is a differnt view on support and what creates atmosphere neither party is right or wrong on their views as they are personable to themselves
We do not have a hooligan problem
We do have a hooligan elemant that follow CAFC as do all clubs This is as all those who participate in it are fully aware is not for everyone and is illegal and has its own consequences
we had a very large gap in our history where the the numbers of individuals that partake in said behaviour were quite low in comparison to the numbers that attended the games due to us not having Se7 as a base this has ultimately been reveresed and the % in numbers are increasing yearly i would say
Is there anything that can be done, I dont know as the condemnation Of fans towards the issues are not likely to change it
This is football and it has not changed it will not change
Now stop looking for things that do not exist in any large scale issue than any London club or English club in any other place than some of your swedes
You can dismiss me as an Old Fart but you lot who think that smashing cars, toilets and throwing seats and flares in crowds is wonderful
Could you please point me in the direction of a post from anyone on this forum claiming this.
Quite a few people on this site have said that the use of flares is wonderful and creates atmosphere. The number of posts are too numerous to mention. I find it very worrying that people are condoning such illegal acts. They must lead very boring lives if they need a bit of smoke and flame to liven up their afternoon.
How many times does it have to be said - they're illegal! The nightclub fire in Brazil recently was started by a flare - they're not so harmless as people seem to think.
ME14, Len - I'd give it up lads as you are fighting a losing battle. All it does is drive people like you and I from bothering to go to away games so a few can have their 'fun'. As normal the minority spoil it for the majority.
Is it a minority? I think most enjoy the flairs and enjoy the atmosphere we've been creating compared to the quiet atmosphere we're accustomed to. There are also lots of people who are really enjoying the improved atmosphere and are not overly bothered about the flairs or smoke bombs
It seems a minority of people are getting overly worked up over the flair/smoke bomb saga and have turned to calling our own fans 'thugs,scum,yobs' etc.
Perhaps we should segregate our away fans into two groups,one for fans who like atmopshere and one for fans who would prefer to sit down and watch the game quietly
my last word (maybe ;-)). I'm not too bothered about the flares as long as people don't throw them around and endangered other fans. What I object to is wanton vandelism whether to another clubs property or anyone else's property. I'm all for a decent atmosphere but even that is alienating those whose want/need to sit but can't but that is another debate entirely. Racist and purile songs also, for me, do not add to or aid the atmosphere and yet they too have raised their ugly heads over the last couple of seasons.
I completely agree. As for the standing/seating debate,maybe it will be answered for us in the future by the safe standing campaign
its just pointless to try to explain to those that chose not to listen
the facts are as follows
The vast majority of fans have openly condemed the vandalism and open destruction of property both in and out the ground
The vast majority of fans were well behaved and very vocal
The support of the vast majority of those fans there saturday were fantatsic loud and very very impressive
The issue of flares and smoke bombs is dividing opinion yet all know that it is illegal however it is not something that needs to be confused with the vandalism it is a differnt view on support and what creates atmosphere neither party is right or wrong on their views as they are personable to themselves
We do not have a hooligan problem
We do have a hooligan elemant that follow CAFC as do all clubs This is as all those who participate in it are fully aware is not for everyone and is illegal and has its own consequences
we had a very large gap in our history where the the numbers of individuals that partake in said behaviour were quite low in comparison to the numbers that attended the games due to us not having Se7 as a base this has ultimately been reveresed and the % in numbers are increasing yearly i would say
Is there anything that can be done, I dont know as the condemnation Of fans towards the issues are not likely to change it
This is football and it has not changed it will not change
Now stop looking for things that do not exist in any large scale issue than any London club or English club in any other place than some of your swedes
Spot on. 65,000+ ranting threads summed up perfectly in a few paragraphs.
its just pointless to try to explain to those that chose not to listen
the facts are as follows
The vast majority of fans have openly condemed the vandalism and open destruction of property both in and out the ground
The vast majority of fans were well behaved and very vocal
The support of the vast majority of those fans there saturday were fantatsic loud and very very impressive
The issue of flares and smoke bombs is dividing opinion yet all know that it is illegal however it is not something that needs to be confused with the vandalism it is a differnt view on support and what creates atmosphere neither party is right or wrong on their views as they are personable to themselves
We do not have a hooligan problem
We do have a hooligan elemant that follow CAFC as do all clubs This is as all those who participate in it are fully aware is not for everyone and is illegal and has its own consequences
we had a very large gap in our history where the the numbers of individuals that partake in said behaviour were quite low in comparison to the numbers that attended the games due to us not having Se7 as a base this has ultimately been reveresed and the % in numbers are increasing yearly i would say
Is there anything that can be done, I dont know as the condemnation Of fans towards the issues are not likely to change it
This is football and it has not changed it will not change
Now stop looking for things that do not exist in any large scale issue than any London club or English club in any other place than some of your swedes
Once again spot on, very valid point about missing out on part of a generation, and a new one coming in from Greenwich, Bexley and Eltham etc who would've grown up next to Millwall's young lot.
You can dismiss me as an Old Fart but you lot who think that smashing cars, toilets and throwing seats and flares in crowds is wonderful
Could you please point me in the direction of a post from anyone on this forum claiming this.
Agreed. I have not seen one person say it was or doesn't agree it was stupid. You are twisting words along with a few others. No one has said it was good.
northstandsteve Member February 2 Swisdom said:
» show previous quotes northstandsteve said:It's Palace away get over it been happening for Donkey's years nothing new here, move on.
That makes it alright then
at Palace yes
and
Norfolk_Addick Member February 2 Although he is a prick for blaming you.. he is a legend for flooding the toilets.
Please advise me exactly how I've twisted words?
Sorry about the copying and pasting but I don't know how to quote from another thread.
Len, just underneath the relevant post, it says quote. Click on that.
I know how to quote, as I have you, but clicking quote on another thread won't bring it to this one as far as I am aware and I am referring to quotes from other threads.
The conversation above it was referring to the vandalism though.
If I misunderstood you I of course apologise but this exchange took place too which led me to interpret your words as I have.
northstandsteve said: It's Palace away get over it been happening for Donkey's years nothing new here, move on.
Agreed, and pushing a bike over is not half as bad as breaking kids noses on trains.
Quote charlton_carl Member February 2 They were happy to row with the burger boy at half time Quote JT Member February 2 Why do we love slagging our own off?! Quote northstandsteve Member February 2 and thats why people call us anoraks Quote ME14addick Member February 2 northstandsteve said: and thats why people call us anoraks
I would just like to add one general thing I've noticed from these threads. There is a clear divide between those who want / like / are not bothered about the current rise in a 'more aggressive' for want of a better word, atmosphere at games and those who do not like it and do not want to see it.
Those in favour seem to often go down the route of saying things along the lines of 'if you don't like it keep away from it and find somewhere else in the ground ot sit thats quiet'.
This is suggesting that those who are not participating in violence are not affected by it and can / should ignore it.
This is clearly not true. All fans are affected, directly and indirectly. And would certainly be affected by any injuuries or problems that airise when the fun and games end with someone losing an eye.
Has anyone lost an eye at Charlton in our 108 year history?
I don't imagine anyone anywhere has ever lost an eye due to fun and games. I don't think anyone ever broke their back from swinging on their chair at school either. I don't really think sticks can break someones bones either, but I suppose it depends on when a stick become a log.
Comments
the thread is about vandalism and violence not "atmosphere".
Smashing up toilets or cars is not "atmosphere".
"Atmosphere" is rapidly becoming one of those excuse words like "banter" that can be used at any time to justify any misbehaviour.
Then people, as Croydon has done, equate ANY suggestion that there should be a limitation on how people behave to mean the person wants everyone to sit down and watch quietly and is anti-atmosphere.
I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned.
What I want is lots of noise, lots of singing, lots of support for the team. What I don't want is vandalism or violence. There is no reason why we have to have the latter to have the former.
Spot on and i think 99% of Charlton fans who travel away would agree with this
"I liked the noise, I liked the singing, I stood up all the way through the game. I'm not bothered about the flares or smoke bombs but if they are banned then they are banned." -- so you've effectively proved my theory that people enjoy the atmosphere and aren't overly bothered about the flairs yet felt the need to have a go at what I said?
My post was aimed at two people who have in the past commented on how they would prefer to watch the game sitting down in a quieter environment,that's why I mentioned the segregation bit,not just for the sake of being petty.
"Charlton Aggro, Charlton Aggro"
its just pointless to try to explain to those that chose not to listen
the facts are as follows
The vast majority of fans have openly condemed the vandalism and open destruction of property both in and out the ground
The vast majority of fans were well behaved and very vocal
The support of the vast majority of those fans there saturday were fantatsic loud and very very impressive
The issue of flares and smoke bombs is dividing opinion yet all know that it is illegal however it is not something that needs to be confused with the vandalism it is a differnt view on support and what creates atmosphere neither party is right or wrong on their views as they are personable to themselves
We do not have a hooligan problem
We do have a hooligan elemant that follow CAFC as do all clubs This is as all those who participate in it are fully aware is not for everyone and is illegal and has its own consequences
we had a very large gap in our history where the the numbers of individuals that partake in said behaviour were quite low in comparison to the numbers that attended the games due to us not having Se7 as a base this has ultimately been reveresed and the % in numbers are increasing yearly i would say
Is there anything that can be done, I dont know as the condemnation Of fans towards the issues are not likely to change it
This is football and it has not changed it will not change
Now stop looking for things that do not exist in any large scale issue than any London club or English club in any other place than some of your swedes
February 2
Swisdom said:
» show previous quotes
northstandsteve said:It's Palace away get over it been happening for Donkey's years nothing new here, move on.
That makes it alright then
at Palace yes
and
Norfolk_Addick Member
February 2
Although he is a prick for blaming you.. he is a legend for flooding the toilets.
Please advise me exactly how I've twisted words?
Sorry about the copying and pasting but I don't know how to quote from another thread.
The conversation above it was referring to the vandalism though.
If I misunderstood you I of course apologise but this exchange took place too which led me to interpret your words as I have.
northstandsteve said:
It's Palace away get over it been happening for Donkey's years nothing new here, move on.
Agreed, and pushing a bike over is not half as bad as breaking kids noses on trains.
Quote
charlton_carl Member
February 2
They were happy to row with the burger boy at half time
Quote
JT Member
February 2
Why do we love slagging our own off?!
Quote
northstandsteve Member
February 2
and thats why people call us anoraks
Quote
ME14addick Member
February 2
northstandsteve said:
and thats why people call us anoraks
Would you rather we were known as thugs?
Bring back corporal punishment, hanging, transportation and slavery
Those in favour seem to often go down the route of saying things along the lines of 'if you don't like it keep away from it and find somewhere else in the ground ot sit thats quiet'.
This is suggesting that those who are not participating in violence are not affected by it and can / should ignore it.
This is clearly not true. All fans are affected, directly and indirectly. And would certainly be affected by any injuuries or problems that airise when the fun and games end with someone losing an eye.
Just something I've noticed as a general theme.
I don't imagine anyone anywhere has ever lost an eye due to fun and games. I don't think anyone ever broke their back from swinging on their chair at school either.
I don't really think sticks can break someones bones either, but I suppose it depends on when a stick become a log.
Only a matter of time, sadly I fear, if such behaviour continues or escalates.