Isn't it about time that the local press started taking an interest in what is going on down at the Valley, even risking getting banned as a former Mercury journalist was. It seems they are very reluctant to lose their free seats on the West Upper.
Just to be clear as interim chair I am not advocating anything other than growing the Trust at present, chants or demos etc are not currently on the agenda while we put in firm foundations. Although what other individuals do is up to them of course, and as a fan I too want answers, It's very frustrating watching all we have built taken apart piece by piece it seems.
The correct thing to do we feel for the trust is wait until our first agm before we can begin meaningful and hopefully positive engagement with the club.
Regarding consortia etc, I think any trust would want to help with such an endeavour, as it ticks so many boxes, however it is not the be all and end all for the Trust. We aim to continue to represent the fans whatever the landscape is.
I think we need whoever owns Charlton (TJ?) to continue to work in the best interests of the club. Let's not forget, without them we may well have gone into administration, we most likely wouldn't be playing in the Championship and Chris Powell probably wouldn't be our manager. How would you feel if you'd brought success to a business and you felt you were being hounded out of it?
Also, I don't buy the view that Richard Murray sold out to just anybody and didn't give a shit. He cares about the club - he'd sunk a great deal of his own money into it and couldn't sustain doing that any longer. Let's not forget that at the time of the takeover Slater and Jimenez had an attractive plan and made all the right noises about returning to the Premiership.
I'm not saying everything is rosey in the CAFC garden, we know it isn't. I just feel we need to be careful in our actions and consider how they impact long-term. I have no right to say this because I've don't nothing to help, but I think the Trust would be very ill-advised to set itself against the club on an issue such as the sacking of Rick at such an early stage in it's development.
Prague as Airman can't say why SK or PV left can you spread any light?
For now, I just ask you to trust me that I know what Rick means in his comment- but Rick was not my source for it.
Is there a time in the near future that you can see or are aware of that thing will change hopefully for the better or are all the things you hear still looking very negative? Is there any positive stuff coming out of the off field goings n at Charlton?
Well I try to be objective, and certainly try to remind myself that a football club is a business, with a P&L, and try to understand what happens from that point of view. For example last week we were all puzzling over Paul Elliott's apparent appointment, which came while we still didn't have a decision on Rick. I even wrote something that admitted I might have to review my perception of TJ if Elliott was his idea. As we now know, it didn't happen, and then they went and booted Rick out. I'm afraid I am also worried about Chris Powell's position, based on what others closer to the relationship than I, have told me. There are people in this thread who argue that we should not criticise, just because we are not in the know about The Plan. My response to that is, I don't think there is a Plan any more. You sack key people such as PV-SK-RE, who apart from anything else put gigantic shifts into everything they do, and replace them with Martin Prothero, who still doesnt do 5 days a week? Sorry, regardless of the personalities, that is a recipe for business gridlock.My best guess is that TJ is simply 'spinning plates' as Carly burn wrote, I think, with short term loans until he finds someone else to put money in. Trouble with that is that he still wants to be the head honcho. Amazingly, somebody who has dealt with him (Rick, for example has never actually met TJ, think about that for a minute) says that one of TJ's motivations is the adulation of the fans. I stared hard at my iPhone when I heard that, I tell you, it 's been playing up lately:-) So right now, I'm back on solid pessimist ground, and just hoping that SCP can keep getting results that keep us above the relegation mire. The one hope I have is that I do know someone is working behind the scenes to assemble a new consortium but I have no recent news about progress on that. Further, such a consortium would not want TJ as head honcho of CAFC. I think therefore we should crack on with the Trust because that could be the vehicle that brings together the rest of us who could be ready to help such a consortium by putting in anything between a fiver and 50k each, and be a financial backstop for the new consortium.
Prague as Airman can't say why SK or PV left can you spread any light?
For now, I just ask you to trust me that I know what Rick means in his comment- but Rick was not my source for it.
Is there a time in the near future that you can see or are aware of that thing will change hopefully for the better or are all the things you hear still looking very negative? Is there any positive stuff coming out of the off field goings n at Charlton?
Well I try to be objective, and certainly try to remind myself that a football club is a business, with a P&L, and try to understand what happens from that point of view. For example last week we were all puzzling over Paul Elliott's apparent appointment, which came while we still didn't have a decision on Rick. I even wrote something that admitted I might have to review my perception of TJ if Elliott was his idea. As we now know, it didn't happen, and then they went and booted Rick out. I'm afraid I am also worried about Chris Powell's position, based on what others closer to the relationship than I, have told me. There are people in this thread who argue that we should not criticise, just because we are not in the know about The Plan. My response to that is, I don't think there is a Plan any more. You sack key people such as PV-SK-RE, who apart from anything else put gigantic shifts into everything they do, and replace them with Martin Prothero, who still doesnt do 5 days a week? Sorry, regardless of the personalities, that is a recipe for business gridlock.My best guess is that TJ is simply 'spinning plates' as Carly burn wrote, I think, with short term loans until he finds someone else to put money in. Trouble with that is that he still wants to be the head honcho. Amazingly, somebody who has dealt with him (Rick, for example has never actually met TJ, think about that for a minute) says that one of TJ's motivations is the adulation of the fans. I stared hard at my iPhone when I heard that, I tell you, it 's been playing up lately:-) So right now, I'm back on solid pessimist ground, and just hoping that SCP can keep getting results that keep us above the relegation mire. The one hope I have is that I do know someone is working behind the scenes to assemble a new consortium but I have no recent news about progress on that. Further, such a consortium would not want TJ as head honcho of CAFC. I think therefore we should crack on with the Trust because that could be the vehicle that brings together the rest of us who could be ready to help such a consortium by putting in anything between a fiver and 50k each, and be a financial backstop for the new consortium.
As others on here might say " THIS " !
Prague has said it like it is. Finally, in black & white , he has laid it on the line and we should thank him for clarifying the situation once and for all.
Have no doubt , this is IT - maybe his statement that he is " worried about Chris Powell's position " will make the doubters sit up & take notice at last. Serious, but heartfelt words from someone we must trust.
As our American friends might say " It's time to smell the cawfee" - interpreted by Razil as " It's time to join the ST"
And on Saturday, everyone present should be in no doubt as to our feelings for the gaffer. Let's keep those chants of " Chrissy Powell/Chrissy Powell's red & white army" going for 90 minutes and leave whoever is in the Directors' Box in NO doubt where our loyalties lie. We need to play our part in this "small" way whilst others are endeavouring to save the day behind the scenes.
I don't know what has happened but to sack somebody, then in the eyes of an employer there must have been something very serious going on.
I will not judge until all of the evidence is out there.
All I would say at this stage is very best wishes to Rick. I presume you will be taking some form of action against the club if you feel you have been unfairly dismissed & maybe that's why you are not saying more at this stage.
I have only just logged on to see this as I have been away from CL for a couple of days....I am gutted for Rick......stunned by the on-going 'sackings'........... concerned for the club and BLOODY ANNOYED at the handling of Ricks dismissal. It is cheap and cowardly to be sacked by email, there is NO employment law that keeps a disciplinary running for 3 months...where I work from the start of an investigation through the entire process (with TU involvement) is 20 days before a decision has to be reached!! and I work for a Blue-chip major employer.....anyway what should we glean from this....is TJ paranoid about not being in TOTAL control.....where will he stop....in fact will he stop? Last year we had a great season, but rumblings from behind the scenes seemed to start as soon as the season finished....DC pulled out apparently, MS seems to have disappeared apart from a few 'public' low level denials....PV, SK gone without a word from anyone.......and a new 1 day a week Executive appointed who can only sack by e-mail!!! Unbelievable and worrying in my opinion as to where this will end.... I read on another forum that the boardroom, as was, is now suing and counter-suing each other how quickly are we unravelling?.....CP and the squad need our support more than ever as does @razil and the supporters trust......do we cross fingers and hope or do we at least try and emulate what Rick and others did way back? I know where my choice lies!!! I wasn't going to come down on Saturday...but if there's a seat left in the ground I'll be down to show my support!!
I do strongly agree with Razil, that the Trust should have nothing to say about the specifics of Rick's removal. The Trust should be about the long-term ownership and governance of the Club. To be absolutely clear, whatever I have to say about Rick is just my personal opinion, and indeed I'm not formally involved with the Trust other than an as an active member.
I should also say - and sorry this isn't what you or I want to hear - that there is a difference between someone wanting to form a consortium, and that consortium actually existing. I have no news about the latter. Therefore, whatever you do, don't just sit back and wait for a knight in shining armour. Join the Trust. It may be the best 'consortium' going.
Sad news that Rick was sacked hope he finds other employment soon.
When this came out in the summer my original thought was TJ wouldn't be involved much longer with our club and I still think that, it sounds like he's making too many enemies plus he doesn't have the money to run club on his own.
I predict we'll have new ownership before too long.
The sooner he goes the better in my opinion or we'll end up losing someone far more important/close to our hearts.
Let's just be thankful we have someone who loves our club as much as we do, holding things together on the pitch as it could be a lot worse in my opinion. Then again, everyone has a breaking point.
Do we have a good idea WHEN it started to go wrong ? Was it when the new regime took over (was last season just a fortunate illusion?), was it at the end of last season or some other time ?
Hex - I don't think anybody is really 'in the know' and that's including RE. People are getting information passed to them from people they trust at various levels. Some is being passed on, other parts are not.
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
Hex - I don't think anybody is really 'in the know' and that's including RE. People are getting information passed to them from people they trust at various levels. Some is being passed on, other parts are not.
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
Perhaps relatively in the know then !
The impression I got, from comments by Rick and others on CL, was that within the club things WERE much better in the early months so when did this change ?
Hex - I don't think anybody is really 'in the know' and that's including RE. People are getting information passed to them from people they trust at various levels. Some is being passed on, other parts are not.
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
I agree with that WSS.
Personally while I will always stand up for Richard Murray's legacy, I have never quite understood what happened after Curbs left. It is not true, as Exiled Addick crassly wrote, that RM sacked him, but what happened next seemed to go against everything that RM had carefully developed as a model for a football club prudently run. I am not ready to blame him, for example Exiled Addick does not include the name Derek Chappell in his comments, but I would certainly like to hear Richard's version of events from the moment Curbs left to the sale to the current guys.
However what Hex is getting at is that last season seemed to be seamless success on and off the field, so when did that change? One authoritative source told me the money (ie director funding) started to run out around March.
Regardless of the reasons, I still can't get my head around the fact a high-profile, long-serving and proven employee was put through a disciplinary process that lasted over 3 months, and then sacked by a third-party signed email.
Hex - I don't think anybody is really 'in the know' and that's including RE. People are getting information passed to them from people they trust at various levels. Some is being passed on, other parts are not.
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
I agree with that WSS.
Personally while I will always stand up for Richard Murray's legacy, I have never quite understood what happened after Curbs left. It is not true, as Exiled Addick crassly wrote, that RM sacked him, but what happened next seemed to go against everything that RM had carefully developed as a model for a football club prudently run. I am not ready to blame him, for example Exiled Addick does not include the name Derek Chappell in his comments, but I would certainly like to hear Richard's version of events from the moment Curbs left to the sale to the current guys.
However what Hex is getting at is that last season seemed to be seamless success on and off the field, so when did that change? One authoritative source told me the money (ie director funding) started to run out around March.
But would the money running out lead to sacking PV, SK and RE, unless for financial reasons ?
Hex - I don't think anybody is really 'in the know' and that's including RE. People are getting information passed to them from people they trust at various levels. Some is being passed on, other parts are not.
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
This is what worries me. I am going on trust with what some posters are saying because of their past records as Charlton loyalists and supporters. I have no faith or trust whatsoever in the so called Cockney mafia. I also know that there are some people who are close to CP and they are worried for him and I don't think the Palace game did CP any favours either.
All I can think is that it wouldn't be a bad idea idea to show CP that we are 100% behind him. It may be too late now to save the 'turbulent priest', but maybe we can sing out extra loud for Chrissy Powell and let the directors know how much we care about him?
@HexBut would the money running out lead to sacking PV, SK and RE, unless for financial reasons ?
I think that while the money and results were there, it was easy to manage and for people to get along. In any compnay when the money runs out you get tension and disagreement about how to resolve the "new reality"
Regardless of the reasons, I still can't get my head around the fact a high-profile, long-serving and proven employee was put through a disciplinary process that lasted over 3 months, and then sacked by a third-party signed email.
Class. Real Class.
Quite Jordanesque.
Sorry to see you go RE and thanks for all you've done for our Club in the past. I'm sure a man of your calibre won't be hanging around gardening for long.
Perhaps you could get a bulk discount by using the same brief as PV and SK :-)
Maybe we should be considering the principles/ morals of those 3, Hex .
That's what I am trying to understand. Were the regime's 'principles/morals' evident within the club from the start, did they become evident slowly over time or was it the 'money problems' that caused a catastrophic change ? As PA points out, these things can happen in any company with money issues.
Think a round of deep breaths are in order to be honest.
This is evolving into one of those unsure protests where everyone chants "What do we want ? err, don't know. When do we want it ? NOW"
This.
It is heartening to know that people are looking to form a consortium and right that nothing can be announced until they are in a position to move - if it reaches that point - hopefully it will. Whilst all is clearly not rosey behind the scenes - to put it mildy - when we get a sense that there is an alternative - we can all be galvanised and support it.
In the meantime, in the absence of new money there isn't an alternative that I can see and we just have to suck it in and pick our time. TJ has to keep the remaining plates spinning and we have to hope that he is successful - throwing some stones at him may not have the desired effect. Whilst none of us will be happy about what is going on - I can't see how TJs objectives are for the club to fold - he wants to make some money and we want him to as it will probably mean he is off.
There probably isn't a lot wrong with the club that a new buyer wouldn't fix very quickly. What we still have is a great manager and a decent team. We need to play our part in making the club look a decent bet for the shining knight we hope is over the horizon. At this point it means not rocking the boat and getting behind th eteam. And where financially possible- attending games (not jsut the £5 ones).
The pressure on Chris Powell now is the most it has ever been since he became manager, and I include in that his first six months in the job. If we want to direct our angst and our passion somewhere then Fanny has (again) called it exactly right. 'Chrissy Powells Red Army' for ninety minutes is what we need now, and indeed what Rick has urged us to do. We may have disappointments football wise in the next few months, but instead of getting on Chris' or the players backs, we need to recognise he is a great man trying to do a great job, and support him even more...even unto relegation if it comes to it! Without Chris all we will have left is ourselves, I wouldn't be confident that even the stadium, The Valley, is secure...it may come down to ourselves alone. One way we can steady things is to hold onto Chris no matter what. Those who wield sacking emails must never have any excuse to send one to our manager based on supporters reaction. I know enough about ego, meglomania, and power, and paranoia (all mixed in with money) to not put any absurd decision past any person in a dictatorial position.
hypothetically speaking of course and making a lot of assumptions:
three people we believe have been forced out
those three people are probably the most senior people that 'care' about Charlton as a club not just a business, let's assume RM has very little influence.
The Fans forum as far as I know has been suspended indefinitely
I'm finding it hard to fathom why some people are still burying their heads in the sand.
Being one of these ostriches myself I'll say it is personally based on lack of facts and evidence. I don't know presonally anyone ITK so don't take everything I read here and elsewhere as gospel.
This is of course my personal view and if I knew people in the know personally it may be different.
I just think we are in the process of transition and whilst there are obviously issues off the field I can't fault the board at this point on anything I've seen them to since taking over as an average not in the know Charlton supporter.
Of course if an when facts (or what I deem as facts) emerge then my view would change and I would react appropriately but for now until I see the board acting in a way that is truly detrimental to the club I cant justify sharing the outlook and criticism of them at them moment as naive as that may be.
Comments
The correct thing to do we feel for the trust is wait until our first agm before we can begin meaningful and hopefully positive engagement with the club.
Regarding consortia etc, I think any trust would want to help with such an endeavour, as it ticks so many boxes, however it is not the be all and end all for the Trust. We aim to continue to represent the fans whatever the landscape is.
BR
Also, I don't buy the view that Richard Murray sold out to just anybody and didn't give a shit. He cares about the club - he'd sunk a great deal of his own money into it and couldn't sustain doing that any longer. Let's not forget that at the time of the takeover Slater and Jimenez had an attractive plan and made all the right noises about returning to the Premiership.
I'm not saying everything is rosey in the CAFC garden, we know it isn't. I just feel we need to be careful in our actions and consider how they impact long-term. I have no right to say this because I've don't nothing to help, but I think the Trust would be very ill-advised to set itself against the club on an issue such as the sacking of Rick at such an early stage in it's development.
Prague has said it like it is. Finally, in black & white , he has laid it on the line and we should thank him for clarifying the situation once and for all.
Have no doubt , this is IT - maybe his statement that he is " worried about Chris Powell's position " will make the doubters sit up & take notice at last. Serious, but heartfelt words from someone we must trust.
As our American friends might say " It's time to smell the cawfee" - interpreted by Razil as " It's time to join the ST"
And on Saturday, everyone present should be in no doubt as to our feelings for the gaffer. Let's keep those chants of " Chrissy Powell/Chrissy Powell's red & white army" going for 90 minutes and leave whoever is in the Directors' Box in NO doubt where our loyalties lie. We need to play our part in this "small" way whilst others are endeavouring to save the day behind the scenes.
Time to stand up & be counted people.
I will not judge until all of the evidence is out there.
All I would say at this stage is very best wishes to Rick. I presume you will be taking some form of action against the club if you feel you have been unfairly dismissed & maybe that's why you are not saying more at this stage.
I should also say - and sorry this isn't what you or I want to hear - that there is a difference between someone wanting to form a consortium, and that consortium actually existing. I have no news about the latter. Therefore, whatever you do, don't just sit back and wait for a knight in shining armour. Join the Trust. It may be the best 'consortium' going.
When this came out in the summer my original thought was TJ wouldn't be involved much longer with our club and I still think that, it sounds like he's making too many enemies plus he doesn't have the money to run club on his own.
I predict we'll have new ownership before too long.
Let's just be thankful we have someone who loves our club as much as we do, holding things together on the pitch as it could be a lot worse in my opinion. Then again, everyone has a breaking point.
Do we have a good idea WHEN it started to go wrong ? Was it when the new regime took over (was last season just a fortunate illusion?), was it at the end of last season or some other time ?
Hopefully we all don't find out everything when it's far too late.
The impression I got, from comments by Rick and others on CL, was that within the club things WERE much better in the early months so when did this change ?
Personally while I will always stand up for Richard Murray's legacy, I have never quite understood what happened after Curbs left. It is not true, as Exiled Addick crassly wrote, that RM sacked him, but what happened next seemed to go against everything that RM had carefully developed as a model for a football club prudently run. I am not ready to blame him, for example Exiled Addick does not include the name Derek Chappell in his comments, but I would certainly like to hear Richard's version of events from the moment Curbs left to the sale to the current guys.
However what Hex is getting at is that last season seemed to be seamless success on and off the field, so when did that change? One authoritative source told me the money (ie director funding) started to run out around March.
Class. Real Class.
All I can think is that it wouldn't be a bad idea idea to show CP that we are 100% behind him. It may be too late now to save the 'turbulent priest', but maybe we can sing out extra loud for Chrissy Powell and let the directors know how much we care about him?
I, for one, wouldn't question the fact that everything they have been involved in was for the good of the Club and its supporters.
@HexBut would the money running out lead to sacking PV, SK and RE, unless for financial reasons ?
I think that while the money and results were there, it was easy to manage and for people to get along. In any compnay when the money runs out you get tension and disagreement about how to resolve the "new reality"
This is evolving into one of those unsure protests where everyone chants "What do we want ? err, don't know. When do we want it ? NOW"
Sorry to see you go RE and thanks for all you've done for our Club in the past. I'm sure a man of your calibre won't be hanging around gardening for long.
Perhaps you could get a bulk discount by using the same brief as PV and SK :-)
It is heartening to know that people are looking to form a consortium and right that nothing can be announced until they are in a position to move - if it reaches that point - hopefully it will. Whilst all is clearly not rosey behind the scenes - to put it mildy - when we get a sense that there is an alternative - we can all be galvanised and support it.
In the meantime, in the absence of new money there isn't an alternative that I can see and we just have to suck it in and pick our time. TJ has to keep the remaining plates spinning and we have to hope that he is successful - throwing some stones at him may not have the desired effect. Whilst none of us will be happy about what is going on - I can't see how TJs objectives are for the club to fold - he wants to make some money and we want him to as it will probably mean he is off.
There probably isn't a lot wrong with the club that a new buyer wouldn't fix very quickly. What we still have is a great manager and a decent team. We need to play our part in making the club look a decent bet for the shining knight we hope is over the horizon. At this point it means not rocking the boat and getting behind th eteam. And where financially possible- attending games (not jsut the £5 ones).
***sarcasm alert***
murray sold to the new owners and the promises made have obviously changed due to KC realising there was no free money available
and in all honesty murray has got more invested in this load of shit than anyone else, in friendly debt to the club
i personally dont think im burying my head in the sand, im just not prepared to make a witchhunt on a board that so far have done a lot for us, YET.
We may have disappointments football wise in the next few months, but instead of getting on Chris' or the players backs, we need to recognise he is a great man trying to do a great job, and support him even more...even unto relegation if it comes to it!
Without Chris all we will have left is ourselves, I wouldn't be confident that even the stadium, The Valley, is secure...it may come down to ourselves alone. One way we can steady things is to hold onto Chris no matter what. Those who wield sacking emails must never have any excuse to send one to our manager based on supporters reaction.
I know enough about ego, meglomania, and power, and paranoia (all mixed in with money) to not put any absurd decision past any person in a dictatorial position.
three people we believe have been forced out
those three people are probably the most senior people that 'care' about Charlton as a club not just a business, let's assume RM has very little influence.
The Fans forum as far as I know has been suspended indefinitely
So what would an owner have to gain from that?
I think the answer is a fairly simple one.
This is of course my personal view and if I knew people in the know personally it may be different.
I just think we are in the process of transition and whilst there are obviously issues off the field I can't fault the board at this point on anything I've seen them to since taking over as an average not in the know Charlton supporter.
Of course if an when facts (or what I deem as facts) emerge then my view would change and I would react appropriately but for now until I see the board acting in a way that is truly detrimental to the club I cant justify sharing the outlook and criticism of them at them moment as naive as that may be.