I think a trust in this circumstance needs the money early - otherwise -what is it? A talking shop with people playing games and only serving to antagonise the wrong people. With money behind it, it demands to be take seriously. Prague talks about the money as if it is a gimme that it will follow later -In these austere times, I would say it is far from a gimme and best to see how realistic this really is before anybody sets out on this path. Just my view of course.
In what circumstances would it not be a good for Charlton fans to have a trust?
If the owners are open to communication then a trust is method of assisting that through focus groups and organising surveys, public meetings etc while democratically representing fans.
If the Club is doing well the trust can support that and work with the club to build support home and away?
If the club is short of cash then the Trust can help fund raise for projects such as mini-buses for the academy or fix the big badge.
If the club is in serious problems then the trusts gives fans a legal entity to fund raise and to lobby for change/improvement.
All of what Henry said plus in the short term it will give us the opportunity to gauge just what type of dialogue the current owners are prepared to have with the fans. Would be nice to think the board will welcome a fans trust but in this case I suspect we can expect a lip service platitudes relationship. Legitimate supporters concerns can be raised and a strategy devised based on the openness or otherwise of the responses. For us it's a win win situation and it ought to be the same for the club.
I think a trust in this circumstance needs the money early - otherwise -what is it? A talking shop with people playing games and only serving to antagonise the wrong people. With money behind it, it demands to be take seriously. Prague talks about the money as if it is a gimme that it will follow later -In these austere times, I would say it is far from a gimme and best to see how realistic this really is before anybody sets out on this path. Just my view of course.
So I take it from the above you will be there this Tuesday evening?
It's your view of course, but if we thought like yourselves then it would be just a "Talking Shop".
Razil and others are working their Jacobs off to get this running and IMO should given help to make this a success.
With money behind it, it demands to be take seriously. Prague talks about the money as if it is a gimme that it will follow later
I wot?
Well if that's how you understood it, that's my fault. The way I see it, Trusts which have gained equity have largely been at smaller clubs on their knees. The equity was available for relatively little. That won't be the case at Charlton, unless the worst case scenario appears. Now the most likely early supporters of trusts will be enthusiastic fans. But few of them will have significant amounts of cash they can throw at Charlton. They will though have their collective brains and energy. Lets say 200 such people put in a fiver each. That is enough to basically establish the Trust as a functioning organisation. The task is to show everybody that the Trust is different to a Supporters Club, or a Fans Forum. A Trust understands that the Club has to be run as a stable business, and is ready to shoulder some of the burden. Now, I believe - and its been confirmed to me by someone who really is ITK - that lurking in the West Stand/Lounge zones are supporters who are moderately wealthy. Nowhere near Jiminez, but maybe able to stump up £10,000 each, and there may be 200 or so of them. Such people aren't often on here, and will regard themselves as serious business people. Before getting involved with the Trust, they need to see that we have set it up, that we have realistic aims, and that we are not going to waste time banging on about potholes. If you've got those guys on board, you then become of interest, not necessarily to this Board, but to another consortium interested in buying them out, which is committed to fan equity.
Thinking you need a thousand (10% of season ticket holders) to put it into play... and perhaps a lower entry level for da serious cash...let's see what people say Tuesday
Thinking you need a thousand (10% of season ticket holders) to put it into play... and perhaps a lower entry level for da serious cash...let's see what people say Tuesday
Yes, that figure looks right to me. I remember that - sadly - only about 1,500 people generally voted in the elections for the supporter director, so that's a benchmark for the number of people who take a serious interest beyond the 90 minutes.
I don't want to set minimum limits and deadlines on the trust membership, although of course the more the better. It is very early days, and with no imminent crisis the people we are attracting understand the long haul argument, I would be happy with 200 very committed folk at least at the start, and we are close to that before a formal launch or membership being available. A 'TARGET 1000' (lol) is a good long term goal though. At the same time I think we are still to reach a lot of our potential audience, and or some haven't got around to it.
Regarding the talking shop comment, I do chuckle when people say that, Football fans love to talk don't we. But when I started the first thread on this in July I said time for Action. The first Action as Prague says is to establish a Trust, results are not going to be instant, we need to establish legitimacy, and trust itself with everyone involved with the Club. I've said it before but for me the role of a Trust is not just about rescuing the club but as a long term Guardian of the club its values and history. In other words to misquote/coin a phrase "a Trust isn't just for CRISIS, it's for LIFE".
Ulitmately we may not achieve our goal, but if you are afraid to fail you will never succeed. I guess the difference between those involved and those who are sitting back saying it can't or won't work, is that we are doing something and not just talking about it, no offence to anyone who isn't a convert. I do respect all points of view, even naysayers, at least you are taking an interest in your Club, and am very grateful for contributions of all kinds, be they just an email message of support, subcribing to the Trust, donating some programmes for auction, persuading others to the cause, or even debating the club finances on forums.
We will be legally established in approximately 5 weeks, and launching on the 5th December, assuming we get an endorsement on Tuesday, I urge every Addick to give this a chance and put your support behind it.
I can confirm that I have today been sacked by the club by email in a letter from Martin Prothero but signed in his absence by the club's personnel manager Helen Reed. I understand Martin has not been at The Valley today. This is the decision of a disciplinary hearing that took place on Friday, September 28th, 19 days ago, and according to the club is the culmination of a disciplinary process that began on Tuesday, July 10th - more than 14 weeks ago.
I hope you will understand that I have not been able to respond to the many kind and generous postings about this situation on this thread over the last five weeks. I would, however, like sincerely to thank everyone who has posted messages of support, both publicly and privately - and of course those who have pointed out that I am not the only person responsible for the many things in which I have been involved over the last 14 years or in my previous roles outside the club are entirely correct. The club must go on and that is what matters.
I would also like to thank my colleagues across the staff at The Valley for their staunch support over the last five difficult weeks and over the many years that preceded it, as well as Corinna who has had to live with me and hear me rehearse the issues at second hand. I know I am not the only one who has found it stressful.
I am not going to go into the details of the allegations at this time, but I am absolutely confident that when they emerge - together with the truth about the termination of Peter Varney and Steve Kavanagh's positions at the club - it will be apparent to all of you that I have never compromised my loyalty and commitment to the club or its supporters. All these matters will shine a powerful light into what is going on behind the scenes and the people involved.
I have always been mindful that I have been extraordinarily lucky to have worked at Charlton for more than 14 years, to have enjoyed the support of people like Steve, Peter, Richard Murray, Martin Simons and many others, and to be able to put into action so many of my ideas, like Valley Express, Football for a Fiver and all the other initiatives. That is the context and I am proud of my record as an employee and a supporter, and the fact that it will all culminate on Saturday in a near-capacity crowd and a record Valley Express service. It is a spectacular irony that they have chosen this week to act.
I would also like to make clear, in view of the fact that Richard's name has been mentioned in this thread, to point out that I have no dispute with him and he has not been involved in this process. As an employee I had many heated arguments, but not with Richard. The chairman is rarely involved in day to day matters or seen at the ground; he and I saw more of each other before I worked for the club. Mostly, in fact, the arguments were with Peter or more latterly Steve, but we always respected each other's motives and that is still the case. They are and remain my friends, and I regard Richard in the same way.
Back in 2001, in my final editorial in the last Voice of The Valley, I wrote that having got back to Floyd Road, going back to the Voice if and when it was necessary would be relatively easy. So it will be.
Finally, please stay solidly behind Chris Powell, whatever happens on the pitch in the next few weeks. As we all know, he is a special person and we need him more than ever to be part of our club and to know that we are with him, whatever the future brings.
Comments
In what circumstances would it not be a good for Charlton fans to have a trust?
If the owners are open to communication then a trust is method of assisting that through focus groups and organising surveys, public meetings etc while democratically representing fans.
If the Club is doing well the trust can support that and work with the club to build support home and away?
If the club is short of cash then the Trust can help fund raise for projects such as mini-buses for the academy or fix the big badge.
If the club is in serious problems then the trusts gives fans a legal entity to fund raise and to lobby for change/improvement.
It's your view of course, but if we thought like yourselves then it would be just a "Talking Shop".
Razil and others are working their Jacobs off to get this running and IMO should given help to make this a success.
Well if that's how you understood it, that's my fault. The way I see it, Trusts which have gained equity have largely been at smaller clubs on their knees. The equity was available for relatively little. That won't be the case at Charlton, unless the worst case scenario appears. Now the most likely early supporters of trusts will be enthusiastic fans. But few of them will have significant amounts of cash they can throw at Charlton. They will though have their collective brains and energy. Lets say 200 such people put in a fiver each. That is enough to basically establish the Trust as a functioning organisation. The task is to show everybody that the Trust is different to a Supporters Club, or a Fans Forum. A Trust understands that the Club has to be run as a stable business, and is ready to shoulder some of the burden.
Now, I believe - and its been confirmed to me by someone who really is ITK - that lurking in the West Stand/Lounge zones are supporters who are moderately wealthy. Nowhere near Jiminez, but maybe able to stump up £10,000 each, and there may be 200 or so of them. Such people aren't often on here, and will regard themselves as serious business people. Before getting involved with the Trust, they need to see that we have set it up, that we have realistic aims, and that we are not going to waste time banging on about potholes.
If you've got those guys on board, you then become of interest, not necessarily to this Board, but to another consortium interested in buying them out, which is committed to fan equity.
Regarding the talking shop comment, I do chuckle when people say that, Football fans love to talk don't we. But when I started the first thread on this in July I said time for Action. The first Action as Prague says is to establish a Trust, results are not going to be instant, we need to establish legitimacy, and trust itself with everyone involved with the Club. I've said it before but for me the role of a Trust is not just about rescuing the club but as a long term Guardian of the club its values and history. In other words to misquote/coin a phrase "a Trust isn't just for CRISIS, it's for LIFE".
Ulitmately we may not achieve our goal, but if you are afraid to fail you will never succeed. I guess the difference between those involved and those who are sitting back saying it can't or won't work, is that we are doing something and not just talking about it, no offence to anyone who isn't a convert. I do respect all points of view, even naysayers, at least you are taking an interest in your Club, and am very grateful for contributions of all kinds, be they just an email message of support, subcribing to the Trust, donating some programmes for auction, persuading others to the cause, or even debating the club finances on forums.
We will be legally established in approximately 5 weeks, and launching on the 5th December, assuming we get an endorsement on Tuesday, I urge every Addick to give this a chance and put your support behind it.
Barnie
Good luck Kav. Our loss is Southend's gain.
Good news?
http://www.cafc.co.uk//news/article/20121002-f4af-update-403337.aspx?pageView=full#anchored
Just reading between the lines (lines that he has not written).
No posts about away ticket sales.
Nothing on here about the Barnsley sales so far.
Most unlike him not to comment on those issues, so I guess we should just deal with it and move on.
I can confirm that I have today been sacked by the club by email in a letter from Martin Prothero but signed in his absence by the club's personnel manager Helen Reed. I understand Martin has not been at The Valley today. This is the decision of a disciplinary hearing that took place on Friday, September 28th, 19 days ago, and according to the club is the culmination of a disciplinary process that began on Tuesday, July 10th - more than 14 weeks ago.
I hope you will understand that I have not been able to respond to the many kind and generous postings about this situation on this thread over the last five weeks. I would, however, like sincerely to thank everyone who has posted messages of support, both publicly and privately - and of course those who have pointed out that I am not the only person responsible for the many things in which I have been involved over the last 14 years or in my previous roles outside the club are entirely correct. The club must go on and that is what matters.
I would also like to thank my colleagues across the staff at The Valley for their staunch support over the last five difficult weeks and over the many years that preceded it, as well as Corinna who has had to live with me and hear me rehearse the issues at second hand. I know I am not the only one who has found it stressful.
I am not going to go into the details of the allegations at this time, but I am absolutely confident that when they emerge - together with the truth about the termination of Peter Varney and Steve Kavanagh's positions at the club - it will be apparent to all of you that I have never compromised my loyalty and commitment to the club or its supporters. All these matters will shine a powerful light into what is going on behind the scenes and the people involved.
I have always been mindful that I have been extraordinarily lucky to have worked at Charlton for more than 14 years, to have enjoyed the support of people like Steve, Peter, Richard Murray, Martin Simons and many others, and to be able to put into action so many of my ideas, like Valley Express, Football for a Fiver and all the other initiatives. That is the context and I am proud of my record as an employee and a supporter, and the fact that it will all culminate on Saturday in a near-capacity crowd and a record Valley Express service. It is a spectacular irony that they have chosen this week to act.
I would also like to make clear, in view of the fact that Richard's name has been mentioned in this thread, to point out that I have no dispute with him and he has not been involved in this process. As an employee I had many heated arguments, but not with Richard. The chairman is rarely involved in day to day matters or seen at the ground; he and I saw more of each other before I worked for the club. Mostly, in fact, the arguments were with Peter or more latterly Steve, but we always respected each other's motives and that is still the case. They are and remain my friends, and I regard Richard in the same way.
Back in 2001, in my final editorial in the last Voice of The Valley, I wrote that having got back to Floyd Road, going back to the Voice if and when it was necessary would be relatively easy. So it will be.
Finally, please stay solidly behind Chris Powell, whatever happens on the pitch in the next few weeks. As we all know, he is a special person and we need him more than ever to be part of our club and to know that we are with him, whatever the future brings.
Rick