That first performance is not something we have been used to seeing with SCP's Charlton side and judging by the response after the break he doesn't stand for it.
Surprised how little people are making of the fact that Stephens was missing. It was a BIG, BIG miss. He is our passmaster, our link from defense to midfield. We looked toothless in possession and were just happy to hoof it long for lack of a better option.
Fuller and Kerkar both added a lot and suggest our bench isn't so weak after all.
Jacko, Kermorgant, BWP, Pritchard, Wiggins, Cook all had massive off days. Yet (with maybe the exception of Cook) we know they can do much, much better.
There's not much need to panic. I expect a big response against Palace.
Need to play 5 across the middle when away to the good sides. BWP was a luxury which we can't afford, especially as he didn't track back or make much effort. Kerkar looked pretty good when he came on.
Just back home from a rude awakening. Was beginning to be very un-charlton-like and optimistic for this season.
On the plus side, Fuller and the fact that the disgusting, disgraceful, mindless homophobic nonsense we had to endure at Birmingham was absent today.
Still sickens me what happened with our moronic fans at Birmingham.
CP has a great deal of work to do, but the second half convinced me we will survive in this league - lower middle placing, though I feel CP will learn from upsets like this and we will get stronger.
Leon Clarke. Now that's a luxury we can't afford...
Anyway, I really don't feel at all despondent. The fact is that despite taking an awful leathering in midfield in the first half we never collapsed. Furthermore that cameo from Fuller told me all about why the Stoke fans rate him so highly. We have never had a striker like that who is both big and strong and will run at defenders. I agree that this was the kind of game where Stephens might have flourished, but I think nobody could have expected him to be there after the events of last week. Didn't bother Chris Solly though, he was his usual self. So Hamer made a blunder, so a few people had off days, so JJ may not have the pace. We lost 2-1 to a very good side, with any number of players we'd love to have, especially Andy Reid, but we simply cannot afford them. Chris Powell will learn from that, the players will have taken heart from the last 10 mins + stoppage, and I think we're in good shape to spank Palace.
Pritchard played whole game like a centre mid leaving right exposed all first half. Second half BWP filled in there very well, and Kermie did okay. Fuller and Kerkar very dangerous and for most parts restricted them to very little. Reid was almost untouchable and whole forest side played well. Could have been a lot worse
You can't play players out of position when there are players on the bench that know their job and expect not to have critics. It's not the players fault none of them go out to play badly.
these.............
For the record - I thought we were very poor. I missed the first 25 mins as I was stuck on the M1 for over an hour after a 4 car pile-up so I can only comment on what I saw after their 1st goal, but I will say it again & again until CP (we'll have to drop the "sir" for the time being) learns that round pegs don't fit in square holes and if you have a right winger who is arguably the best crosser of a ball sitting on the bench then you should be playing him instead of the defensive midfielder who's in his place.
Also Fuller showed in 30 seconds what we are missing - a striker who will run at defences with the ball at his feet. BWP & Kermy may not have been given any service today, but sometimes you have to do it yourself !!
Seriously, today for SCP was a lesson in the learning - particularly how the backline dropping so deep isolates the strikers and stretches the midfield.
If Chris Powell has one blind spot it's when to use his subs. Blatantly clear from early on that the starting team wasn't at the races and he should have changed things miles earlier. Who knows what might have happened if Fuller and Kerkar had come on after an hour instead of with just 15 or so minutes to go.
maybe - but the same criticism was levelled at the start of last season, but by the end he was doing pretty well, give Chrissy some time to get used to a new division. Good to see the reaction to going 2-0 down - definitely shows the team spirit is very good.
Just finished watching delayed coverage on TV. It's 3:30am and time for bed.
Forest gave us a footballing lesson in the first half. I would hate to see the possession stats for that half.
Really didn't see a way back, despite the improvement, until Fuller came on and he loked a class above (above the rest of our players anyway).
Good to have a chance to watch and perhaps our defence was better than it looked as Forest didn't really have too many clear chances despite their domination. Not always easy to see on TV.
On a positive note (sort of) If Forest play like they did in the first half all year they will walk this league! SO'D Gets them playing brilliant football and I know it's been said before but I don't think we'll see a much better team this year.
Worst performance for a long time. 4-4-2 went out the window and 4-4-2 is what we are good at! 4-3-1-2 seems to be what we played and we had no midfield. No stephens, really missed. Fuller looked different class should start over BWP already for me.
It was very disappointing. We were made to look very limited in the first half. Passing backwards before the hoof to Yann. Hopeless really - I had no idea where any of our midfield four were playing. Pritchard was found out and sorry Jacko but too slow and cumbersome for this divison. How he stayed on and Hollands was pulled off was baffling.
Second half the 433 formation worked and allowed Solly and Wiggis to overlap. Standout was Fuller - looks interested and if the case one of the fabled front two will have to make way.
Final word for the ref who seemed a homer despite the quiet crowd. Free kick for first goal should have been originally our free kick as there were two fouls by Cox on Solly. Second goal Wiggins barged to the ground in the build up and the ref just ignored it! However, we were well beaten and I am concerned re fitness levels as we had a week to prepare and seemed as lethargic as last week when the 3 matches in 8 days may have been a reasonable excuse for a below par showing. Forest played on Tuesday as well.
That most of our squad, as individuals, have little experience at his level, allied to the fact that the team is still adjusting to the pace & skill of the opposition, means that we are going to be in a 'try out' / learning scenario in these early games. A bit like someone who has passed their driving test, but not driven alone out on the 'real' roads. So what do you do? You try, you struggle a bit, you adapt, you learn... and you get better. I can't see us getting whipped week in, week out. We will be beaten by some, we will beat others. Players will have their 'off' days, of course, but this is a useful squad, under the guidance of a decent manager and coaching staff who expect honest endeavour. I think we'll be fine.
On the tactical side, we started with the 4-4-2 Diamond, with Hollands at the base, Pritchard on the right, Jackson on the left & Cook at the point in behind the front 2. Forest use a orthodox 4-4-2, with Reid drifting in from the left. With no width in the Diamond, we allowed their full backs to get out and gave Reid all the space he needed to dictate the pattern of play, and they passed through us. Cox and Blackstock often pulled wide into the space on their left as Reid moved inside and they overloaded us in a number of areas creating 2v1 & 3v2 situations. We were totally out-played and were fortunate Forest failed to take advantage (their goal was a ricket by Hamer).
CP changed it on 35 mins, pulling BWP wide on the right, abandoning the Diamond for 4-5-1, with Cook moving to left midfield outside of a Pritchard-Hollands-Jackson Central Midfield, which at least stopped the bleeding. However, with Kermit up front on his own, we were easily contained and never really got forward with any purpose.
After the second goal, the Fuller-Kerkar double substitution for BWP & Hollands forced another switch to a 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 system, with Haynes as the third attacker ( after replacing Cook). We then got going, Fuller started running at the Forest Back Four, Kerkar got crosses in from the left, Solly got down the right and Haynes got in behind. With Forest hanging-on at the end, we finished on a good positive note to take us into the derby. At 0-2 we kept going and didn't buckle, which was good to see.
IMO we don't have the players to play the Diamond or at least this line-up doesn't look capable. The player at the point should be the best attacking midfielder/striker In the team or a continental no.10, Cook looked lost in the role, as he did at Gillingham in pre-season. Only Hollands looked steady, in the defensive role in front of a solid central defence. We are leaving the full backs exposed to 2v1 situations too often.
Just got back, Forest were a class above first half and should have been 2, possibly 3 up. We were out thought in every area but to give our boys credit we made a better go of it second half without really troubling them until Fuller came on. The difference he made was to actually run at them a bit, prior to that there was a lot of hit it at Yann & hope. He was in their CB's pockets all afternoon unfortunately. At the other end Cort/Morro especially was troubled by the quick interplay between the Forest attackers, they really did play good, intelligent football at times. Our midfield chased shadows for long periods....Pritchard was very lightweight/ineffectual but he ran his heart out, Cook looked a bit overawed but again i wouldnt right him off yet. Wilson was terrible during his warm up
Quite the gulf in class between the sides, but i would quite confidently back Forest for a top 2 finish.
On the basis of my little 3 game visit, i think we will do very well to achieve a mid table finish. If Fuller makes an impact and we steer clear of key injuries we will be ok, but its not going to be at all easy.
I've never liked a diamond. Ancelotti tried it at Chelsea as his preferred formation and dropped it pretty early. It requires an exceptional amount of tactical awareness and commitment to the role and it's a system that punishes any mistakes made. A few games in pre-season isn't enough to pull it off. A whole season probably isn't. I hope Powell dropsit as an option this year
Just got back, not seen anyone on here dispute the free kick which lead to their first goal. I was sat right in front of it and thought that if anything it should have been our free kick, as Solly looked to have the edge and then was pulled back. That said we probably should have dealt with it a bit better. Pritchard and Cook both looked out of their depth, Pritchard kept chasig shadows leving Solly exposed. Powell , I believe, should make substitutions earlier and not wait for something to go wrong before being forced into making one. Fuller looked imense.
You're right damo, happened right in front of me too - Solly outmuscled and got in front of Cox who reacted to being done by Solly by making it look like he was impeded. I thought the Ref had given them the throw.
we were crap today. we never looked liked scoring for 85 mins. forest are not great but we made them look good today. pissed off i went now as in the first half we looked disinterested and happy to be walked all over. any positives came on too late and unless we learn to create chances against these teams we will struggle to score goals. shame we have to wait 2 weeks to put this right but i am really disappointed in the display. worst part of the day was watching jackson and co having a go at hamer after the first goal! how about you jonnie having a touch in the first half hour of play and keeping the ball away from our goal!
Comments
But on a different day we wouldn't be.
That first performance is not something we have been used to seeing with SCP's Charlton side and judging by the response after the break he doesn't stand for it.
Surprised how little people are making of the fact that Stephens was missing. It was a BIG, BIG miss. He is our passmaster, our link from defense to midfield. We looked toothless in possession and were just happy to hoof it long for lack of a better option.
Fuller and Kerkar both added a lot and suggest our bench isn't so weak after all.
Jacko, Kermorgant, BWP, Pritchard, Wiggins, Cook all had massive off days. Yet (with maybe the exception of Cook) we know they can do much, much better.
There's not much need to panic. I expect a big response against Palace.
BWP was a luxury which we can't afford, especially as he didn't track back or make much effort. Kerkar looked pretty good when he came on.
You've chosen your username well.
On the plus side, Fuller and the fact that the disgusting, disgraceful, mindless homophobic nonsense we had to endure at Birmingham was absent today.
Still sickens me what happened with our moronic fans at Birmingham.
CP has a great deal of work to do, but the second half convinced me we will survive in this league - lower middle placing, though I feel CP will learn from upsets like this and we will get stronger.
Anyway, I really don't feel at all despondent. The fact is that despite taking an awful leathering in midfield in the first half we never collapsed. Furthermore that cameo from Fuller told me all about why the Stoke fans rate him so highly. We have never had a striker like that who is both big and strong and will run at defenders. I agree that this was the kind of game where Stephens might have flourished, but I think nobody could have expected him to be there after the events of last week. Didn't bother Chris Solly though, he was his usual self. So Hamer made a blunder, so a few people had off days, so JJ may not have the pace. We lost 2-1 to a very good side, with any number of players we'd love to have, especially Andy Reid, but we simply cannot afford them. Chris Powell will learn from that, the players will have taken heart from the last 10 mins + stoppage, and I think we're in good shape to spank Palace.
For the record - I thought we were very poor. I missed the first 25 mins as I was stuck on the M1 for over an hour after a 4 car pile-up so I can only comment on what I saw after their 1st goal, but I will say it again & again until CP (we'll have to drop the "sir" for the time being) learns that round pegs don't fit in square holes and if you have a right winger who is arguably the best crosser of a ball sitting on the bench then you should be playing him instead of the defensive midfielder who's in his place.
Also Fuller showed in 30 seconds what we are missing - a striker who will run at defences with the ball at his feet. BWP & Kermy may not have been given any service today, but sometimes you have to do it yourself !!
;o)
Seriously, today for SCP was a lesson in the learning - particularly how the backline dropping so deep isolates the strikers and stretches the midfield.
It gave Forest just too much space.
Forest gave us a footballing lesson in the first half. I would hate to see the possession stats for that half.
Really didn't see a way back, despite the improvement, until Fuller came on and he loked a class above (above the rest of our players anyway).
Good to have a chance to watch and perhaps our defence was better than it looked as Forest didn't really have too many clear chances despite their domination. Not always easy to see on TV.
Second half the 433 formation worked and allowed Solly and Wiggis to overlap. Standout was Fuller - looks interested and if the case one of the fabled front two will have to make way.
Final word for the ref who seemed a homer despite the quiet crowd. Free kick for first goal should have been originally our free kick as there were two fouls by Cox on Solly. Second goal Wiggins barged to the ground in the build up and the ref just ignored it! However, we were well beaten and I am concerned re fitness levels as we had a week to prepare and seemed as lethargic as last week when the 3 matches in 8 days may have been a reasonable excuse for a below par showing. Forest played on Tuesday as well.
A bit like someone who has passed their driving test, but not driven alone out on the 'real' roads. So what do you do? You try, you struggle a bit, you adapt, you learn... and you get better.
I can't see us getting whipped week in, week out. We will be beaten by some, we will beat others. Players will have their 'off' days, of course, but this is a useful squad, under the guidance of a decent manager and coaching staff who expect honest endeavour. I think we'll be fine.
With no width in the Diamond, we allowed their full backs to get out and gave Reid all the space he needed to dictate the pattern of play, and they passed through us. Cox and Blackstock often pulled wide into the space on their left as Reid moved inside and they overloaded us in a number of areas creating 2v1 & 3v2 situations. We were totally out-played and were fortunate Forest failed to take advantage (their goal was a ricket by Hamer).
CP changed it on 35 mins, pulling BWP wide on the right, abandoning the Diamond for 4-5-1, with Cook moving to left midfield outside of a Pritchard-Hollands-Jackson Central Midfield, which at least stopped the bleeding. However, with Kermit up front on his own, we were easily contained and never really got forward with any purpose.
After the second goal, the Fuller-Kerkar double substitution for BWP & Hollands forced another switch to a 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 system, with Haynes as the third attacker ( after replacing Cook). We then got going, Fuller started running at the Forest Back Four, Kerkar got crosses in from the left, Solly got down the right and Haynes got in behind. With Forest hanging-on at the end, we finished on a good positive note to take us into the derby. At 0-2 we kept going and didn't buckle, which was good to see.
IMO we don't have the players to play the Diamond or at least this line-up doesn't look capable. The player at the point should be the best attacking midfielder/striker In the team or a continental no.10, Cook looked lost in the role, as he did at Gillingham in pre-season. Only Hollands looked steady, in the defensive role in front of a solid central defence. We are leaving the full backs exposed to 2v1 situations too often.
Quite the gulf in class between the sides, but i would quite confidently back Forest for a top 2 finish.
On the basis of my little 3 game visit, i think we will do very well to achieve a mid table finish. If Fuller makes an impact and we steer clear of key injuries we will be ok, but its not going to be at all easy.
Pritchard and Cook both looked out of their depth, Pritchard kept chasig shadows leving Solly exposed.
Powell , I believe, should make substitutions earlier and not wait for something to go wrong before being forced into making one.
Fuller looked imense.
Morrison is great, if he got injured we'd be in big trouble.
Bottom line I think Forest will win the league but we can take heart from our second half performance - just wish we'd played that way for 90 mins!